KarlB737
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NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:26 am

Courtesy: Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal

NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie.../daily51.html?b=1165208400^1388333
 
LAXintl
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:38 am

Here is the related link to that about AA wanting to insert a Chicago stop on its proposed DFW-China service.
http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...eneral_aviation/read.main/3137938/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LFutia
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:43 am

I kind of have to agree with Northwest here. You don't see any other airlines amending their route and I think its too late to amend it. I could see however a flight number being changed. But as for making it a stopover, I don't see that happening.

Leo
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MAH4546
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:48 am

I don't see why they care.

See, even though the unfortunate fact that AA has to do this severly hurts their application and makes CO or UA the likely winner, they still have a better chance of winning it than Northwest.
a.
 
CALMSP
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:52 am

AA doesnt stand a chance. All this talk about opening up north Texas to China is now out the window. United already flies the DFW-ORD-PEK route!! (hypothtically speaking). As everyone already knows, now it is down to CO/UA......we'll see how we do..as our relationship with the DOT is not the greatest right now!!
 
Falcon84
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 4):
As everyone already knows, now it is down to CO/UA......we'll see how we do..as our relationship with the DOT is not the greatest right now!!

True, but the CO application is the one that, trying not to be biasd here, makes the most sense-linking the two major economic centers of both nations. No other applicant can boast that.
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CO767FA
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 4):
As everyone already knows, now it is down to CO/UA......we'll see how we do..as our relationship with the DOT is not the greatest right now!!

The irony here might be that no matter whether it is UA or CO that is awarded the route; if the two end up dancing in a merger, the route could ultimately be part of the proverbial "spoils" the two share in a completed merger.
 
Falcon84
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 6):
The irony here might be that no matter whether it is UA or CO that is awarded the route; if the two end up dancing in a merger, the route could ultimately be part of the proverbial "spoils" the two share in a completed merger.

Bite your tongue! I don't want anything to do with UA, to be honest.  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
luv2fly
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
See, even though the unfortunate fact that AA has to do this severly hurts their application and makes CO or UA the likely winner, they still have a better chance of winning it than Northwest.

So untrue, I think it will come down to either CO or NW, though just my opinion.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
CO767FA
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Bite your tongue! I don't want anything to do with UA, to be honest.

I hear what you are saying....but I'm keeping my eyes wide  eyepopping  ; just in case!
 
CALMSP
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:30 am

hey i'm up for it.............much more opportunities to HNL!!!
 
Falcon84
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 10):
hey i'm up for it.............much more opportunities to HNL!!!

Bah. I want to stay in CLE.  Big grin
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
MAH4546
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
True, but the CO application is the one that, trying not to be biasd here, makes the most sense-linking the two major economic centers of both nations. No other applicant can boast that.

China Eastern flies non-stop between New York City/JFK and Shanghai.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):

So untrue, I think it will come down to either CO or NW, though just my opinion.

Not untrue at all. Northwest already has Detroit-Beijing route authority, but they just happen to fly via Tokyo. What on earth makes you think DOT is going to give them the authority again when they already have it?
a.
 
luv2fly
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Not untrue at all. Northwest already has Detroit-Beijing route authority, but they just happen to fly via Tokyo. What on earth makes you think DOT is going to give them the authority again when they already have it?

For one there pilots will fly the route!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ualcsr
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
True, but the CO application is the one that, trying not to be biasd here, makes the most sense-linking the two major economic centers of both nations. No other applicant can boast that.

Change CO to UA, and "economic centers" to "capitals" and you'd be talking about a whole different scenario.
 
steeler83
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Not untrue at all. Northwest already has Detroit-Beijing route authority, but they just happen to fly via Tokyo.

RIght, I believe they have a hub over at NRT, right? Is NW the biggest name over in Asia, or is UA? or neither? I know that AA, DL, and CO have rather smaller focuses in Asia, but have other focuses elsewhere...

If you ask me, I think NW and UA have the best chances of getting that Asia route, followed by CO... I say NW, UA, CO, right in a line; very close to one another...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 13):
For one there pilots will fly the route!

Awesome. They still aren't getting it, and never really had a shot.
a.
 
cba
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:08 pm

Dumb move AA.

Regardless of the development however, UA and CO had and have the best applications, either linking the two capitals or economic centers. IAD or EWR deserve a nonstop China slot before DTW, and DFW (even if AA's pilots agree to fly it).
 
ualcsr
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 15):
If you ask me, I think NW and UA have the best chances of getting that Asia route, followed by CO... I say NW, UA, CO, right in a line; very close to one another

Steeler--as has been said before, NW is probably the least likely to get the route because they already have authority to fly it. All they need to do is move their frequency from NRT to DTW; this would not require any government approval. To that end, it's difficult to justify awarding the route to NW when they already have the right to use it, but don't.

I think AA had a good chance and blew it. It's down to CO and UA as others here have already mentioned.
 
steeler83
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 18):
Steeler--as has been said before, NW is probably the least likely to get the route because they already have authority to fly it. All they need to do is move their frequency from NRT to DTW; this would not require any government approval. To that end, it's difficult to justify awarding the route to NW when they already have the right to use it, but don't.

I think AA had a good chance and blew it. It's down to CO and UA as others here have already mentioned.

Oh, right. That was stupid on my part to think that. I did read those posts that pointed that out and completely ignored them. Then I agree with what else was said. Next in line was UA and CO in that order, so, that is what I think then... Maybe DL would be 3rd, followed by AA.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
Maybe DL would be 3rd, followed by AA.

Delta is not in the picture.
a.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 18):
All they need to do is move their frequency from NRT to DTW; this would not require any government approval. To that end, it's difficult to justify awarding the route to NW when they already have the right to use it, but don't.

Well UA already has several flight to China as it is. NW has right to PEK not PVG from the US. If they used the few frequency they had then it would take out half the west coast.

NW has one of the better chances, it allows more cities to have connections to Shanghai.
 
ualcsr
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
Maybe DL would be 3rd, followed by AA

DL did not submit an application and therefore, cannot be awarded the route; however, it's almost certain that DL will apply for service from ATL in the next round. This time around, it's CO or UA.
 
CroCop
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Bite your tongue! I don't want anything to do with UA, to be honest.

Dont flatter yourself, UA folks dont want CO. Kind of mutual. Smile
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
 
MAH4546
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 22):

DL did not submit an application and therefore, cannot be awarded the route; however, it's almost certain that DL will apply for service from ATL in the next round. This time around, it's CO or UA.

It should be noted that the reason Delta did not file was because they could not file. This was only open to airlines that already fly there.
a.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 4):
As everyone already knows, now it is down to CO/UA......

And you guys are certain of this?
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FlyGuyDTW
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 21):
Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 18):
All they need to do is move their frequency from NRT to DTW; this would not require any government approval. To that end, it's difficult to justify awarding the route to NW when they already have the right to use it, but don't.

Well UA already has several flight to China as it is. NW has right to PEK not PVG from the US. If they used the few frequency they had then it would take out half the west coast.

NW has one of the better chances, it allows more cities to have connections to Shanghai.

If I am correct, NW does have the right to fly to both PVG and PEK direct from DTW. I have in fact flown to both cities for layovers on the 744 on NW. They took the direct routing for both cities and put them through NRT sometime in 2001 right before or shortly after 9/11.
 
masseybrown
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting Cba (Reply 17):
Dumb move AA.

What choice did they have? AA were counting on a pilot agreement and they didn't get it, making them unable to operate the route.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting Flyguydtw (Reply 27):
If I am correct, NW does have the right to fly to both PVG and PEK direct from DTW. I have in fact flown to both cities for layovers on the 744 on NW. They took the direct routing for both cities and put them through NRT sometime in 2001 right before or shortly after 9/11.

We had those routes becuase of our alliance with Air China, but since we no longer partner with them, we have to reapply.
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zvezda
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:01 pm

The right way to award these would be an auction. The carriers should bid money for them. That would ensure the most viable route is the one that is awarded. It would also remove political considerations and ensure that routes are not won by bribery.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Awesome. They still aren't getting it, and never really had a shot.

Although I am not a betting man, I'm going to go out on a limb and offer to bet you a dollar that NW gets it. You can have AA,UA, and CO. You don't fool around with Big Red in Asia.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 31):

Although I am not a betting man, I'm going to go out on a limb and offer to bet you a dollar that NW gets it. You can have AA,UA, and CO. You don't fool around with Big Red in Asia.

Your reasoning is exactly why many think that NW and UA will not get the route, both already have extensive Asian networks that include services to China. And, what is stopping NW from launching DTW-PVG right now? There is no ""need"" to route all Asian bound pax via NRT, its simply what NW prefers to do.

When authorities such as these become available, the governmental agencies usually select the carrier that can offer something new to the mix....new blood, so to speak. CO and AA, with their small Asian presence, add new choices for consumers, thats the key. Its nothing against NW, if NW would apply to operate DTW-EZE for example (if authorities to Argentina opened up), they would probably get that.

I am not quite sure why NW is making a fuss over the AA application.....AA more or less eliminated itself from this round of competition all by itself.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
Your reasoning is exactly why many think that NW and UA will not get the route

I'm willing to let you in on the bet if you like!!!
 
jacobin777
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:49 am

IIRC did read that the pilots union in theory backed the route....personally, I think AA is adding ORD to the mix because DFW is not completely economically vialble....

Regardless...AA is out of the loop..which might be good thing, as it allows them to focus on other lucrative routes such as Africa....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
Your reasoning is exactly why many think that NW and UA will not get the route, both already have extensive Asian networks that include services to China.

And you're reasoning is why we should get the route. NW is the longest serving airline from the US to Asia and China. We've been doing business in Asia since our inception. The big red tail is as recognisable to people in Asia, much like the Pan American logo was to the rest of the world. We have more connections than all other carriers on both ends of the route. We're operating a larger aircraft than the other carriers, unless UA is planning to operate a 747

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
When authorities such as these become available, the governmental agencies usually select the carrier that can offer something new to the mix....new blood, so to speak. CO and AA, with their small Asian presence, add new choices for consumers, thats the key.

New choices has nothing to do with it. The govermental factors weigh on who is most likely to succeed and which city lobbies for it the most. UA and CO do stand a very real shot becuase you're talking about Washington/DC and New York, 2 of the heaviest corrupt-laden lobbyist breeding grounds. If UA or CO gets it, it will be because they were the cheif pole-smokers in this application process. But I think NW and UA should be the front-runners and NW should get it.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
if NW would apply to operate DTW-EZE for example (if authorities to Argentina opened up), they would probably get that.

NW would never operate such a route unless it absolutely had to, which it hasn't. We are more likely to build our empire in Asia.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
I am not quite sure why NW is making a fuss over the AA application.....AA more or less eliminated itself from this round of competition all by itself.

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supa7E7
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:46 am

AA's PEK-DFW application was, in its substance, one of the most profoundly ridiculous proposals ever made. They were seriously using places like Texarcana... El Paso.... Lubbock, TX to justify DFW over its rivals. AA's unique feed at DFW amounted to a mere handful of people per day.

Dallas itself has little local traffic to China... probably not in the top 15 US cities to China. Amazingly, DFW-PEK might have been unprofitable. Now, it is clear it won't happen for many years.

EWR and IAD are both splendid choices.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
And you're reasoning is why we should get the route. NW is the longest serving airline from the US to Asia and China. We've been doing business in Asia since our inception. The big red tail is as recognisable to people in Asia, much like the Pan American logo was to the rest of the world

The opposite, its time for NW (and UA) to have some competition in Asia from other US carriers...and this is the position that the DOT is likely to take. NW and UA have done a rather unremarkable job on the US-Asia routes (again, explain to me why every NW flight to Asia is routed via Tokyo? Passenger convenience?)

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
New choices has nothing to do with it.

Sorry, they have everything to do with it. Passenger choice and competition is a key element in this process. You are a smart guy, you understand the economic and consumer elements involved.....I need not explain them to you.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
UA and CO do stand a very real shot becuase you're talking about Washington/DC and New York, 2 of the heaviest corrupt-laden lobbyist breeding grounds

Yeah you gotta watch out for those big city lawyers and poiticians. After all, there are no politicians, lobbyists or lawyers in SEA, MSP or DTW. And, NW would certainly not stoop to using its political influence to gain the route. Be serious, again, you are far too smart for this....

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
If UA or CO gets it, it will be because they were the cheif pole-smokers in this application process

Too silly to respond to.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
But I think NW and UA should be the front-runners and NW should get it.

Why? Becasuse NW is your favored airline and you think that NW (and UA) should be the only US carriers allowed to fly over the Pacific?

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 35):
NW would never operate such a route unless it absolutely had to, which it hasn't. We are more likely to build our empire in Asia

I used the DTW-EZE route as an extreme example, dont try to make me look silly. Thats unfair. As for NW'S EMPIRE in Asia, you just proved why NW should NOT get the route.

Regards....and look for CO to be serving PVG very shortly.

PS - great clip on your a.net page...I enjoy that commercial too.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
NW and UA have done a rather unremarkable job on the US-Asia routes (again, explain to me why every NW flight to Asia is routed via Tokyo? Passenger convenience?)

Because of the fact it's a guaranteed windfall profit for us and we hardly ever lose money to Japan. We have almost zero restrictions on the levels of service we can offer due to the US/Japan Bilateral agreement which allows almost unfettered access by the US carriers NW and UA(formerly Pan Am's rights) from the US-Japan. The agreement blatantly favours US carriers allowing us to boost, move, realign our operations and routes almost unobstructed

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Sorry, they have everything to do with it.

You wish it had everything to do with it. If that was the case, than we'd be operating every conceivable unprofitable route known to man. The gov't only cares about which carrier is going to make economical sense. If they were so concerned about "choices for the people", than any market would open without gov't approval. Sorry it doesn't work that way. The gov't is not concerned about "the people", only economics.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Passenger choice and competition is a key element in this process. You are a smart guy, you understand the economic and consumer elements involved.....

In a perfect world, yes, but companies can't always deliver. We base our operations on price of the ticket. More competition is good, but if there is too much competition, than the companies won't make money. And on the other spectrum, we'll be on the hook to allow more of their carriers into this country. With Chinese airlines being state-owned, that would crush us in the market place. It isn't about the customer, it's about the dollar. Sorry my friend, but you're wrong.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Yeah you gotta watch out for those big city lawyers and poiticians. After all, there are no politicians, lobbyists or lawyers in SEA, MSP or DTW.

I'm saying, the lobbying power and influence from these 2 cities are alot more well-connected than they are in DTW, DFW, SEA, ORD, MSP and other places

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Too silly to respond to.

It may be, but it's true. That's how business is conducted, sucking up to those who hold the "hammer to the golden spike". The gov't hands out routes to those it feels can draw a profit.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Why? Becasuse NW is your favored airline and you think that NW (and UA) should be the only US carriers allowed to fly over the Pacific?

Yes, that exactly why I think we should get it. Working for NW, it helps the prospect of my employment. What's your excuse?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
As for NW'S EMPIRE in Asia, you just proved why NW should NOT get the route.

Ok, AA, UA, CO and DL should not get any more routes to Europe, and NW should because we aren't represented well enough. Don't over look CO's huge presence in Asia. They serve more cities in Japan and Asia for that matter than we do. Look at all the routes they have from Continental/Air Mike.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):

Regards....and look for CO to be serving PVG very shortly.

Well, look forward to seeing that red tail 747 at the next gate over, heading to DTW, NONSTOP. If it doesn't happen this time, it will the next.

Overall, I give you a 10 for form, a 10 for inspiration and 2.5 for originality. Your basing your idea on what should happen, and not on how it really works. In the eye of the consumer, it should more competitive, and more expansive on choice. But from the gov't, that's not at the forefront of their thinking, which is why I think they'll allow industry consolidation to go forward. Too many competition to one place will hurt US carriers in the long run. But in the end, we'll see. You could be right, I could be right. We'll see how it all plays out.
Cheers, Les
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dutchjet
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 37):
You could be right, I could be right. We'll see how it all plays out

Yep, we will........I do hope that some of the younger a.net members can learn something from us two ""older members""........its OK to agree to disagree. I do understand your points, I hope that you seriously considered mine. As with most discussions, reality is somewhere in the middle.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 37):
What's your excuse?

CO supporter and share-holder, nothing more.


When do you think that we will hear something........a decision is overdue.
 
zvezda
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 33):
IIRC did read that the pilots union in theory backed the route....

The union may have backed the route application in theory, but they killed it in practice.
 
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STT757
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
China Eastern flies non-stop between New York City/JFK and Shanghai.

The DOT does not want a Chinese carrier to have a monopoly on the largest US-China market.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 38):
Yep, we will........I do hope that some of the younger a.net members can learn something from us two ""older members""........its OK to agree to disagree. I do understand your points, I hope that you seriously considered mine. As with most discussions, reality is somewhere in the middle.

 checkmark 

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 38):
CO supporter and share-holder, nothing more

Ah-ha Mr Wolf in sheeps clothing  Wink
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burnsie28
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):
The DOT does not want a Chinese carrier to have a monopoly on the largest US-China market.

Maybe, but the DOT would wan't more American's to be able to get to china easier, NW will offer more passengers and connecting cities then CO. CO's and AA's application doesn't even come close. I think UA is going to suffer because everyone else wants underserved Shanghai and UA wants to continue to go to Beijing.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
The opposite, its time for NW (and UA) to have some competition in Asia from other US carriers...and this is the position that the DOT is likely to take. NW and UA have done a rather unremarkable job on the US-Asia routes (again, explain to me why every NW flight to Asia is routed via Tokyo? Passenger convenience?)

Competition doesn't do any good if they can't make it work. AA did a fine job of that in Nagoya. Also CO already serves EWR-PEK.

[Edited 2006-12-09 20:27:26]
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 42):
AA did a fine job of that in Nagoya.

And NW did a fine job in Milan......so?? Neither are relevant.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 42):
Also CO already serves EWR-PEK.

And how exactly does that affect CO's application to serve EWR-PVG? NW already serves both PVG and PEK........and this round of applications is limited to US carriers that already serve China, so I dont understand your point.

----

The trend here is clear.....the NW guys clearly would prefer not to have new competition over the Pacific.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 43):
And NW did a fine job in Milan......so?? Neither are relevant.

What did Northwest do in Milan?
 
dutchjet
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 44):
What did Northwest do in Milan?

Flew there for a short period......during the aborted KL/AZ deal...and pulled out when the route did not work. Its totally not relevant to this discussion, just as AA's performance (or lack thereof) on the ORD-NGO has nothing to do with the China discussion.

Sometimes routes dont work......it happens.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 43):
And NW did a fine job in Milan......so?? Neither are relevant.

It is relevent, why would the DOT give the routes to a company that won't make it last, they wont....

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 43):
And how exactly does that affect CO's application to serve EWR-PVG? NW already serves both PVG and PEK........and this round of applications is limited to US carriers that already serve China, so I dont understand your point.

I meant to put it for the other reply when the person said that only a chinese carrier flies China-New York.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 43):
NW already serves both PVG and PEK

And Guangzhou.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
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STT757
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 42):
NW will offer more passengers and connecting cities then CO.

CO's application offers more convenience to business travelers, NYC is the Center for finance and commerce in the US as Shanghai is to China. Linking these two financial centers provides more commercial opportunities and convenience than Detroit which is using the argument that most people will originate from other places (like NYC) and fly through Detroit.

The NYC-Shanghai market is many times the Detroit-Shanghai market, the DOT will most likely pick the most economically sound applications (EWR-PVG) before going into the connecting markets.

BTW..

If NWA wanted there's noting stopping them from moving their NRT-PVG or NRT-PEK flights back to Detroit, if were using the connecting passenger argument the first step NWA should do is move NRT-PEK, or NRT-PVG back to the US.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: NWA Seeks To End American's Bid For China Route

Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 35):
Dallas itself has little local traffic to China

Its on par with DTW, ATL, and just about any other city around its size. Geographically, however, DFW's location hurts it. Its a back track for people from the east coast. Given AA's blunder, they dont deserve the route. However DFW is a growing economy while Detroit is a mere shell of what it once was. If were comparing cities and markets, I dont think Dallas is the weakest of the four, Detroit is. Dallas is not as strong as DC or NYC.

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 35):
AA's PEK-DFW application was, in its substance, one of the most profoundly ridiculous proposals ever made.

I still fail to see how AA's was any ridiculous than NW's
It is what it is...

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