kaitak
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SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:42 am

Acording to this article on Bloomberg, SIA is looking at the possibility of more 777-300ERs to cover A380 delays. Some quite interesting comments there, including the reference to the 77W as a "useful alternative" to the A380 and, perhaps even more interesting, "we could upsize the order if there are further delays with the A380."

Does he know something others don't? EK's audit team seemed satisfied that the aircraft would now be on time, following their recent visit to the Airbus plant.

Interesting also that a 278 seater is a useful alternative to a 550 seater ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...100&sid=aNxCksEyWmKo&refer=germany
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Interesting also that a 278 seater is a useful alternative to a 550 seater ...

That´s strange... but if there are 2 773 for each 380
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N328KF
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Does he know something others don't? EK's audit team seemed satisfied that the aircraft would now be on time, following their recent visit to the Airbus plant.

With that in mind, EK did lease 777-300ERs to cover the delay.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Acording to this article on Bloomberg, SIA is looking at the possibility of more 777-300ERs to cover A380 delays. Some quite interesting comments there, including the reference to the 77W as a "useful alternative" to the A380 and, perhaps even more interesting, "we could upsize the order if there are further delays with the A380."

EK has followed the same track, with their recent leasing of additional 77Ws to cover the time it will take for their full complement of A388s to arrive.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Interesting also that a 278 seater is a useful alternative to a 550 seater ...

Is SQ fitting their A388's with 550 seats? If not, then the comparison doesn't seem valid, as the 773 can certainly seat many more than 278 in a layout comparable to the 550-seat A380.

Besides, what do you want them to order?

-Dave
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
"We could upsize..."

How Singaporean.

The B747-400 seats 375, the B777-300ER seats 278 and the A380-800 will seat 474 - 475 passengers.

Hopefully there are no further delays though.
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manni
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:14 pm

Weren't the 19 A330s SIA is going to lease, somehow part of filling up the gap untill all planes on order have arrived?

ie. Putting the A330s on Asian routes and freeing up the planes currently flying on these routes and putting them on aircraft flying further a field.
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kaitak
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:28 pm

The A330s are intended as a stopgap until the A350XWBs arrive in 2013-5 or so. I'm quite looking forward to these aircraft in SIA service.

SIA is going to have quite an interesting fleet by the end of this decade:
A380, 747-400, 777-300ER/300/200ER, A330. The 777, with about 70 in service by the end of the decade, will be by far the mainstay of the fleet.
 
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:40 pm

A330's as a stop gap until the A350 arrives. After the A380 mess I would think Singapore would be a little gun shy about being a launch customer for another Airbus aircraft. For that matter I think anyone would be. Airbus still has the same clunky out moded processes that got them into trouble on the A380 project. They should have cleaned up the mess before going ahead with the A350.
 
PVG
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
Does he know something others don't?

LH order 747-8 after saying that they would delay their WB order until next year and a few days after an EADS board meeting. Now these guys are talking about further stop-gap orders. Sounds like something is up to me.
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:46 pm

Interesting. Contemplating additional delays, even "collapse" of the A380 Program (see: http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...neral_aviation/read.main/3120534/) seems to have become part of Mr. Chew's discourse with the media in recent weeks. This may be nothing more than idle chatter; nevertheless, the potential for ongoing problems with the EIS of the nascent flagship of SQ's fleet does seem to be on Mr. Chew's mind recently. Where one observes smoke, there's often fire.

[Edited 2006-12-10 11:04:12]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
anstar
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 7):
SIA is going to have quite an interesting fleet by the end of this decade:
A380, 747-400, 777-300ER/300/200ER, A330. The 777, with about 70 in service by the end of the decade, will be by far the mainstay of the fleet.

Won't the A350's/A330's be replacing 772's?

I would think that the 777 number will start going down when the A330's come online.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
Won't the A350's/A330's be replacing 772's?

As of yet, SQ have not ordered either the A330 or A350. SQ have on order 20 B787-9s, 16 B777-300ERs, and 10 WhaleJets. Anything else is speculative.
 
ikramerica
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:47 pm

The 9 A380s, 20 A350X and X number of A330s are not firm as of yet. This may be what is confusing people.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
The 9 A380s, 20 A350X and X number of A330s are not firm as of yet.

The A330 LoI is for 19. Of course, with an LoI and a couple of dollars, one can get a cup of coffee. Until it's a firm order, it's just so much hot air on paper.
 
richardlu
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:55 pm

SQ still has 13 B777-300ERs on option, so it wouldn't be a surprise if some of them are firmed up.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Richardlu (Reply 15):
SQ still has 13 B777-300ERs on option, so it wouldn't be a surprise if some of them are firmed up.

SQ have a lot of options:
15 WhaleJets
13 B777-300ERs
20 B787s

Any of these could potentially be exercised (turned into firm orders). It's likely that some but not all will be ordered and delivered.
 
boeing767-300
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
A330's as a stop gap until the A350 arrives

Unlike some on this forum I cant get too excited about the 19 "leased" A330. These are give aways tied into A380 compensation and A350. (But it did give airbus a tiny bit of credibility...for a short time after Farnborough at a time when they desperately needed any good press)

I believe that for SQ the offer was too good to pass up along with the clever fact that Airbus tied in the compo to A350(interim leased A330) instead of cash.

We know that SQ assessed the A330 time and time again and turned them down again and again for an ever expanding fleet of 777

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
After the A380 mess I would think Singapore would be a little gun shy about being a launch customer for another Airbus aircraft.

The A330 could very easily be another MD11/A340. SQ after the initial two 77W are wondering why A) They did not order them earlier and B) should they order GEnx on their 20 787

Quoting PVG (Reply 9):

LH order 747-8 after saying that they would delay their WB order until next year and a few days after an EADS board meeting. Now these guys are talking about further stop-gap orders. Sounds like something is up to me.

Something fishy is going on here.. we have fixed the wiring the weight performance issues and will be certified this month only the 1st Aircraft will not be delivered till Oct 2007. WHAT IS GOING ON>>>>>>>>
 
LY777
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:10 pm

I don't understand why SQ will lease A330 whereas they are going to receive soon 787s, then A350s...
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 18):
I don't understand why SQ will lease A330 whereas they are going to receive soon 787s, then A350s...

SQ won't start receiving B787s until 2011. They have no A350s on order and couldn't get any before 2013 if they were to order some. SQ plan to start retiring their oldest B777s in 2009. The only options to fill the gap are A330s or B777s. Now it appears that SQ are leaning toward B777s.
 
justloveplanes
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:23 pm

Chew may just be negotiating in the press (big surprise) to make A stick to their targets on the A380 before focusing too much on the A350. Makes sense.

He may also be impressed by the 77W's in-service performance and is looking at modifying his fleet strategy.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
A330's as a stop gap until the A350 arrives. After the A380 mess I would think Singapore would be a little gun shy about being a launch customer for another Airbus aircraft. For that matter I think anyone would be.

 checkmark 

The A350 EIS targets are conditional on meeting "cost reductions". A also is publicly scrambling for partners around the globe and that adds to uncertainty too. Until certainty increases (and that could be a while), there will be more 77W's (which is a proven and winning solution) showing up in fleets. It may only be a few months to change things for A, but decisions that have been postponed perhaps for two years may not wait any longer.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 20):
He may also be impressed by the 77W's in-service performance

It's a little early for that. The B777-300ER was only operating in SQ's fleet for three days when Chew made the comments.
 
9V-SVA
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
It's a little early for that. The B777-300ER was only operating in SQ's fleet for three days when Chew made the comments.

I'm not suprised if he based his statements on findings by other carriers eg AF and EK.
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:17 am

I am guessing SQ plans to replace their 744 fleet with a mix of A388s and 77Ws since they have effectively ruled out the 748. 744 routes with strong passenger traffic will get A388s and those with weaker traffic will get 77Ws. So with the A388s delayed, SQ will need to take more 77Ws to replace 744s that are coming up on having to be retired.

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
Weren't the 19 A330s SIA is going to lease, somehow part of filling up the gap until all planes on order have arrived?

I was under the impression the A333s were meant to replace the oldest 772ERs which now have to be retired. SQ was going to use these A333s on intra-Asia regional routes where the A333's lower range would not be an issue, and then the remaining 772ERs would continue to service their current long-haul runs.

I was also under the impression that the "plan" was for the 787-9 will handle those intra-Asian regional routes once they arrive. I am guessing SQ won't be flying them at MTOW since they don't need the 8000+nm range which should make them even more efficient. Then the A350XWB family would be added to replace the 772ER long-haul fleet. Though, personally, I think Boeing has a chance to lock SQ up with the 787-10...
 
manni
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 17):
We know that SQ assessed the A330 time and time again and turned them down again and again for an ever expanding fleet of 777

Indeed. But times have changed. The expense of adding a new aircraft type to the fleet might no longer be a hurdle with fuel prices being what they are and abusing 777 on hops to KUL, BKK, HKG, MNL etc.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 17):
WHAT IS GOING ON>>>>>>>>

Just a thought. Perhaps Airbus has been very conservative this time. Allowing enough time to get it right and limiting the risk of having to announce an additional delay. EK's team of 'observers', are said to have, expressed satisfaction, so dont worry to much... In less then a year time the first A380 revenue flight might be a fact. First destination SYD...
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
Indeed. But times have changed. The expense of adding a new aircraft type to the fleet might no longer be a hurdle with fuel prices being what they are and abusing 777 on hops to KUL, BKK, HKG, MNL etc.

More likely it was a combination of Boeing not willing to discount the 772ER enough to either sell it to SQ or to sell it to a lessor who could then lease it at an attractive price to SQ with Airbus willing to both be a lessor and in doing so, offer SQ an attractive lease price.
 
CB777
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
I was under the impression the A333s were meant to replace the oldest 772ERs which now have to be retired

When is Singapore going to start retiring their oldest 777's?
Continental could sure use them..
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting CB777 (Reply 26):
When is Singapore going to start retiring their oldest 777's?

When do the A333s start to arrive? 2009?
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 24):
The expense of adding a new aircraft type to the fleet might no longer be a hurdle with fuel prices being what they are and abusing 777 on hops to KUL, BKK, HKG, MNL etc.

 checkmark 

Quoting CB777 (Reply 26):
When is Singapore going to start retiring their oldest 777's?

2009.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
When do the A333s start to arrive?

SQ have not ordered any A330s.
 
kaitak744
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 5):
the B777-300ER seats 278 and the A380-800 will seat 474 - 475 passengers.

Looks like they could really use the 747-8 to fill that 200 seat gap in their fleet.

Quoting CB777 (Reply 26):
When is Singapore going to start retiring their oldest 777's?
Continental could sure use them..

They are retiring the intra-asia 777s when they start receiving their A330-300s.
 
B742
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 28):
SQ have not ordered any A330s.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40395
http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...any_info/press_release/NE_5906.jsp

They have ordered A330's, they will be on lease.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
When do the A333s start to arrive? 2009?

Yes, 2009-2011 is when the A333's will arrive.

Rob!  wave 
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 29):
They are retiring the intra-asia 777s when they start receiving their A330-300s.

My understanding is that SQ have already sold a few of their B777s with lease-back until 2009, so they are going whether or not SQ firm up the lease deal for the A330s.

Quoting B742 (Reply 30):
They have ordered A330's, they will be on lease.

Nope. Those are not orders. They are only LoIs. The difference is like: "I'm planning to study at university." versus "I just graduated from university and have a diploma in hand."
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 28):
SQ have not ordered any A330s.

Picky, picky.  Smile

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 31):
My understanding is that SQ have already sold a few of their B777s with lease-back until 2009, so they are going whether or not SQ firm up the lease deal for the A330s.

So SQ sold their 772ERs and is now leasing them back from that seller?

If that's the case, then that's probably good news for Boeing since it means SQ won't really need the A333s and can wait for the 787-9s to come...
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
So SQ sold their 772ERs and is now leasing them back from that seller?

Just a few so far.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 32):
If that's the case, then that's probably good news for Boeing since it means SQ won't really need the A333s and can wait for the 787-9s to come...

No, the leases are only until 2009. The B787-9s won't be delivered until 2011. SQ need to order either A330s or B777s for delivery in 2009.
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 33):
No, the leases are only until 2009. The B787-9s won't be delivered until 2011. SQ need to order either A330s or B777s for delivery in 2009.

I know SQ is...different...in that they evidently have legal or financial requirements that drive when planes are retired. So they can't operate a plane past these limits, whether or not they "hold the paper", right?

And I wonder if Boeing isn't trying to open some earlier slots to get SQ 787s in 2009 and 2010...
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
I know SQ is...different...in that they evidently have legal or financial requirements that drive when planes are retired. So they can't operate a plane past these limits, whether or not they "hold the paper", right?

It's not a legal requirement at all. It's company policy which makes sense given the depreciation rules in Singapore and the high-end product they offer. There are occasional exceptions now due to the WhaleJet fiasco: The three Jumbos (9V-SMJ, 9V-SMM, and 9V-SMT) just retired in the last several weeks were delivered in 1991, 1992, and 1993 respectively. 9V-SMJ's 15 years was probably a record for SQ.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
And I wonder if Boeing isn't trying to open some earlier slots to get SQ 787s in 2009 and 2010...

I think SQ blew their chance of early B787 delivery slots. I think we're more likely to see SQ order more B777-300ERs, which are still available for 2009 delivery. It's also still possible that SQ may order A330s. One way or another, the order will need to be placed within the next six months or so.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:20 am

Why order the A-330 at all? Even if Airbus is the leasor, it just doesn't make sense to have these airplanes for just a few years. The A-350XWB makes even less sense, seing the burning SQ is taking with the Whalejet, and they already have an order for the B-787-900. Go with the B-777-300ER, and just drop any plans for the WhaleJet and A-350. If they really need a VLA, they can get in on the ground floor delivery dates for the B-747-800I.
 
Ken777
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 35):
I think SQ blew their chance of early B787 delivery slots.

Wasn't this a situation where SQ was seriously looking a the 7E7 and Airbus went to them and basically said, "hold off as we are coming up with coming better"? Lost SQ both prime delivery slots and the launch discounts for the 787.

I personally be surprised to se SQ end up buying 748i in the future, especially if Boeing continues to improve the performance of the plane. For the next few years Boeing will have more flexibility (and resources) to tinker with the 748i than Airbus will have with the 380 and SQ is going to be interested in what both companies do.
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
just drop any plans for the WhaleJe

Dropping the A380 entirely at this point would be a very messy proposition for SQ, as Airbus has already assembled at least six airframes (MSN003, 005, 006, 008, 010, & 012) which are designated for delivery to SQ. Surely, significant progress payments in addition to the initial deposits have been advanced by now, not to mention that the RR engines for these aircraft have already been manufactured.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ar+end+to+fulfil+SIA+delivery.html

[Edited 2006-12-10 21:41:44]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
Why order the A-330 at all? Even if Airbus is the lessor, it just doesn't make sense to have these airplanes for just a few years.

Well if Airbus is willing to make SQ an attractive enough offer, SQ has nothing to lose in taking them up on it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
The A-350XWB makes even less sense, seeing the burning SQ is taking with the Whalejet, and they already have an order for the B-787-900.

Well SQ has a large fleet of 772ERs on long-haul routes they need to replace. The 772LR is an option, of course, but the A350 should offer superior economics. If, however, Boeing can get the 787-10 out of the hanger, it might be enough to convince SQ to take it over the A350.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
Go with the B-777-300ER, and just drop any plans for the WhaleJet and A-350. If they really need a VLA, they can get in on the ground floor delivery dates for the B-747-800I.

While SQ's chairman has been somewhat "verbally ambiguous" on the 748I, I don't think it has a home in SQ's fleet. They need the A388 to shore-up SIN in the face of the rise of HKG and DXB as Asian "transfer points" on the high-density routes and the 77W offers both greater luxury and greater RASM (due to lower capacity) then the 744, while offering close (better?) CASM.
 
gaut
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:57 am

During the official introduction of THY in the Star Alliance meeting, Mr Chew Choo Seng said that with the industrial launch of the A350XWB last week, the SIA LoL for the aircraft is now to be considered as a firm order.

Sorry, only in French http://www.latribune.fr/info/Singapo...0005D88D2-$Db=Tribune/Articles.nsf

Gaut

Edited for link

[Edited 2006-12-10 21:58:06]
«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
timboflier215
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting Gaut (Reply 40):

Interesting if true. I'm surprised that SQ is so ready to order another Airbus paper aeroplane, considering what happened with the A380, but I guess they figure that Airbus won't make the same mistake twice....

Personally, I could see them taking more 777W's, but I think that if the A350 is indeed a done deal, then so is the A330.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting Gaut (Reply 40):
During the official introduction of THY in the Star Alliance meeting, Mr Chew Choo Seng said that with the industrial launch of the A350XWB last week, the SIA LoL for the aircraft is now to be considered as a firm order.

Unfortunately, the article doesn't indicate a delivery schedule. The LoI was for 2012, but that seems impossible now.
 
kaitak744
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
Why order the A-330 at all? Even if Airbus is the leasor, it just doesn't make sense to have these airplanes for just a few years. The A-350XWB makes even less sense, seing the burning SQ is taking with the Whalejet, and they already have an order for the B-787-900. Go with the B-777-300ER, and just drop any plans for the WhaleJet and A-350. If they really need a VLA, they can get in on the ground floor delivery dates for the B-747-800I.

Uh.... WHAT??!?

This is Singapore's current fleet strategy:
777-200ER (intra-asia) -> A330-300 -> 787-9
777-200ER (long-haul) -> A350-900
777-300ER
747-400
A380

When the 747-400 will retire, there will be a 200 seat gap between the 777-300ER and the A380. This seems like a good place for the 747-8.

*The 747-8 is not a A380 competitor. It in standard configuration seats 100 less people than the A380.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 30):
They have ordered A330's, they will be on lease.

You posted 10 days early. Now the A330s have been ordered.  Smile
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 43):
This is Singapore's current fleet strategy:
777-200ER (intra-asia) -> A330-300 -> 787-9
777-200ER (long-haul) -> A350-900
777-300ER
747-400
A380

While I believe Zvezda disagrees, I am wondering if SQ is going to swap the 744 for the A388 on a near 1:1 basis now that they have confirmed their nine additional frames, for a total of 19.

With 24 744s currently in service, SQ could use 15 of their 19 773ERs to replace their long-haul 772ERs (the 15 9V-SVx registrations), leaving four available to replace four of the five remaining 744s. SQ also has six A388 options left, so they could conceivably replace all 24 744s with A388s if they wish.

As for the A359, I am wondering if it would not find a home replacing some of the 17 high-density 772ERs (9V-SRx registrations) and 12 773As. This would allow the 787-9 to cover the medium-density 772ERs (9V-SQx registrations) and the remainder of the 9V-SRx registrations.
 
ikramerica
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):
While I believe Zvezda disagrees, I am wondering if SQ is going to swap the 744 for the A388 on a near 1:1 basis now that they have confirmed their nine additional frames, for a total of 19.

The 744 will be fully replaced by both A380 and 77W. With 19 of each on order, that is 38 jets to replace 25, which covers quite a bit of expansion. But the 77W will likely also fly some premium Asian routes where the new product would make money (and where they could haul tons of cargo).

I don't think it is a coincidence, however that Airbus has 10 orders and 15 options on the A380 while having 25 active 744s in their fleet. I think the original plan was to do the 1:1 swap, and use the 77W for expansion from 772 routes, etc.

What happened between then and now that made Chew have to say some silly things was that the 748i came along, and made the idea of having a the 77W and 388 and a gap of over 175 seats kind of suspect. A better plan might be to have the 77W, 748i AND A388, with 90-100 seat spacing between each, so Chew had to say things that are silly to justify the original plan. Because no matter what he claims, the 748i is not an old technology jet, and it is NOT better to misuse an A380 than to use the plane best for the route. Flying 325 people around in a 470 seat A388 instead of a 375 seat 748i is NOT the best use of equipment, nor is leaving 100 behind to use a 77W if those 50 of those pax are paying a good fare...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Stitch
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 46):
The 744 will be fully replaced by both A380 and 77W. With 19 of each on order, that is 38 jets to replace 25, which covers quite a bit of expansion. But the 77W will likely also fly some premium Asian routes where the new product would make money (and where they could haul tons of cargo).

My question is where the A388 expansion is going to come from? Will it be brand new routes, or will it be replacements of 744-serviced routes with A388s?

I am inclined to believe the latter, myself.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 46):
I don't think it is a coincidence, however that Airbus has 10 orders and 15 options on the A380 while having 25 active 744s in their fleet. I think the original plan was to do the 1:1 swap, and use the 77W for expansion from 772 routes, etc.

Which is what I am inclined to believe is happening. The 77Ws would allow SQ to carry about as many seats as their long-haul 772ERs (278 vs. 285), but more of them would be premium seats (eight First and 12 Business), theoretically improving RASM. So a 1:1 replacement seems logical to me.
 
zvezda
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):
While I believe Zvezda disagrees, I am wondering if SQ is going to swap the 744 for the A388 on a near 1:1 basis now that they have confirmed their nine additional frames, for a total of 19.

With 24 744s currently in service, SQ could use 15 of their 19 773ERs to replace their long-haul 772ERs (the 15 9V-SVx registrations), leaving four available to replace four of the five remaining 744s. SQ also has six A388 options left, so they could conceivably replace all 24 744s with A388s if they wish.

The difficulty with the idea is that more than five more Jumbos will probably leave the fleet before the WhaleJet's EIS. Then again, perhaps SQ will try to keep 19 Jumbos flying until the WhaleJet arrives and then retire them on a one-for-one basis.
 
ikramerica
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RE: SIA Looks To More 77Ws To Cover A380 Delays?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 48):
The difficulty with the idea is that more than five more Jumbos will probably leave the fleet before the WhaleJet's EIS.

They'll lose 5 next year? That's quite a bit. I know they are adding quite a few 77Ws by then, but I can't see them being suitable replacements on all routes considering the 100 seat reduction in capacity, as well as reduction in premium seats.

Maybe they'll be forced to run a 772 and 77W together on some routes that retired 744s fly until the A388s start coming in?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

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