rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:29 am

I booked two flights last summer one way from GVA to ZRH. One cost me 60 Swiss francs and the other 99 swiss francs all taxes included.

However now all fares are up to 378 francs!!!!!!! No more low fares. Is there an explanation for this sudden change

Regards

BM
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
No more low fares. Is there an explanation for this sudden change

Competition (flyBaboo) is no longer around and again, the only carrier operating between ZRH-GVA vv. is Swiss.

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
However now all fares are up to 378 francs!!!!!!!

Take the train, even First Class is much cheaper then by plane because of all the taxes.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:50 am

As usual when a competitor turns up in ZRH Swiss is doing a nice fare dumping + adding flights to create an overcapacity and since most competitors (flyBaboo, Helvetic, ...) are weak or too small they will be out of business very soon.
And without competition fares go up again.

Salutations,

RJ100
none
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:36 am

Can't really blam them aslong as they succeed.

And aslong as i can fly ID90 Big grin
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:21 pm

Wonder about Squeezy-Jet. They previously showed some interest in this market, but haven't heard much recently.
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:39 pm

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 1):
Take the train, even First Class is much cheaper then by plane because of all the taxes.

Come on between the train and airplane my choice is done. However I made these flights because one time my GF was flying into ZRH and I wanted to wait her in the gate as a surprise, and the other time it was for the a.net meet!
For special occasions like that I prefere a good old Avro over an ICN

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
Wonder about Squeezy-Jet. They previously showed some interest in this market, but haven't heard much recently.

if they start operating GVA-ZRH, they will eat Swiss and Swiss will not like and will do anything to bust EZS off.
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 5):
if they start operating GVA-ZRH

I dont think they will, because ZRH is "too expensive" Big grin
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:20 pm

I'm sure easyJet will do absolutely nothing in this market. LX, being a network carrier, can offer more frequencies and as mentioned before, is able to cross-subsidize flights for a certain time.

That's why it is extremely difficult to set up something in ZRH in general.

easyJet does not have a lot of spare resources, in fact they have problems to recruit enough people and they have not enough aircraft to expand all bases as much as they want. They are certainly not going to waste resources and their money on routes such as GVA-ZRH.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19065
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:14 am

LX have much cheaper round trip fares GVA-ZRH. I just checked their website for GVA-ZRH tomorrow and returning 3 days later and found fares on certain off-peak flights as low as CHF207 including all taxes/fees.

However, as someone else mentioned, from downtown to downtown it's as fast if not faster by train (2 hrs. 42 minutes and a train every 30 minutes), not to mention cheaper, more comfortable, and more likely to be on time, and no long lines at airport security checks etc.

Most LX passengers on GVA-ZRH-GVA flights are making connections at ZRH, not travelling locally, apart from a couple of early morning and evening flights in each direction popular with day-trip business travellers.
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
As usual when a competitor turns up in ZRH Swiss is doing a nice fare dumping + adding flights to create an overcapacity and since most competitors (flyBaboo, Helvetic, ...) are weak or too small they will be out of business very soon.
And without competition fares go up again.

Thats called competition in a open market......

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 3):
And aslong as i can fly ID90

Lucky you....  bigthumbsup  used to on SR nooooooooo moreeeeeee

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 7):
I'm sure easyJet will do absolutely nothing in this market.

Exactly why would they?? no need there are other opportunities for them to make the good $$$$

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):
Most LX passengers on GVA-ZRH-GVA flights are making connections at ZRH, not travelling locally, apart from a couple of early morning and evening flights in each direction popular with day-trip business travellers.

 checkmark 

Cheers,
 
RJ100
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting Swissy (Reply 9):
Thats called competition in a open market......

I am a big fan of open markets. That's why I have a different opinion on the Swissair/Crossair/Swiss-case...
It is interesting that the very same people screamed for State aid some years ago who now support LX's dumping prices that kills competition, jobs and welfare in Switzerland.

And no, that's not bashing, just my opinion.  Smile

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
It is interesting that the very same people screamed for State aid some years ago who now support LX's dumping prices that kills competition, jobs and welfare in Switzerland.

like who?
 
MYT332
Posts: 7283
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:31 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:50 pm

I'd say drive but it takes the best part of a day. By the time you've gone back into France, thru Mont Blanc, down to Turin and Milan, up to Vaduz and into Austria, then up to Zurich you will have covered nearly 500 miles!

Or at least, that's the way I went in March!
One Life, Live it.
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
Quoting Swissy (Reply 9):
Thats called competition in a open market......

I am a big fan of open markets. That's why I have a different opinion on the Swissair/Crossair/Swiss-case...
It is interesting that the very same people screamed for State aid some years ago who now support LX's dumping prices that kills competition, jobs and welfare in Switzerland.

That happens pretty much all over the world..... it seams to be comon practice in these days.....

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
And no, that's not bashing, just my opinion.

Understood 100%, always appreciate opinions......

Cheers,
 
ZRH
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:54 am

Actually flights between GVA and ZRH only make sense for connecting passengers. For all others, as mentioned, the train goes every 30 minutes, is more comfortable and faster, when you consider all these check-in times and ridiculous security sanctions.
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
more comfortable

that's debatable !
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 14):
Actually flights between GVA and ZRH only make sense for connecting passengers. For all others, as mentioned, the train goes every 30 minutes, is more comfortable and faster, when you consider all these check-in times and ridiculous security sanctions.

 checkmark 

I regularly go to the ZRH region by train. Its cheap, efficient, comfortable, no ridiculous security things and sometimes chat with nice people.  Smile
 
ZRH
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 15):
that's debatable !

Oh no. The IC or ICN is fore sure more comfortable than any economy class seat.
 
HBJZA
Posts: 283
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 14):
Actually flights between GVA and ZRH only make sense for connecting passengers. For all others, as mentioned, the train goes every 30 minutes, is more comfortable and faster, when you consider all these check-in times and ridiculous security sanctions.

You probably never took a train between the 2 cities. It takes 4 hours on the direct train. As for the flight it take only 20 minutes + roughly 45 minutes at GVA for check in and security and 15 minutes at ZRH for deplaning and customs. So 4 hours opposed to 1h20.............
The trains are not comfortable. Usually from Freibourg to ZRH, the train is more than overcrowded. The food sold on trains is disgusting and out of price as are the fares on swiss trains.
When I lived in GVA, I always prefered the plane. Now that I have a longer drive to GVA, I choose to drive directly to ZRH.
Own point of view though
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 18):
It takes 4 hours on the direct train.

WRONG! That's 2 hours 43 minutes.

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 18):
The food sold on trains is disgusting and out of price

Nobody forces you to buy it! Railway stations have become real shopping mall lately, with great choice.

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 18):
out of price as are the fares on swiss trains.

Of course, if you are using them once every three years, that will render them expensive, but when I go to Zürich or sometimes farther I just pay CHF 56.-- for a whole day wherever I want to go in the country, or almost!
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 18):
You probably never took a train between the 2 cities. It takes 4 hours on the direct train.

Please stay with the facts, 4 hours was probably 30 years ago. I think you did not take it recently. The direct trains either ICN or IC (via Bern) take both exactly 2 h 42 (43) min from city-center to city-center. Look it up at www.sbb.ch . Take 15 min to the airport in GVA, 45 min for check-in and security (which is not much), 50 min flight (this the block time Swiss has in its time-tables, incl. taxiing-flight-taxiing), another 40 min to get of the aircraft and get to the city, then you have at least 2 h 30 min: at least. Therefore only for connecting passengers or passengers which only go from airport to airport the flight is better than the train.

[Edited 2006-12-12 15:04:44]

[Edited 2006-12-12 15:07:41]
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:14 pm

I for one just completely dislike traveling by train, and i dont even know why. I always feel so uncomfortable and somehow dont manage to sit down and relax :S I also find that the train fares have become ridicolousely high over the past few years, compared to our neighbour countries (especially germany).

The worst thing about the military service was travelling through whole switzerland twice every weekend Big grin
 
HBJZA
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:23 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 20):
Please stay with the facts, 4 hours was probably 30 years ago. I think you did not take it recently. The direct trains either ICN or IC (via Bern) take both exactly 2 h 42 (43) min from city-center to city-center

I just checked on CFF website and I invite you to do so as well. Ok I exagerate a bit but from what I saw on their website, the shortest trip from Genève aéroport to Zürich flughafen is 3 hours and 10 minutes. Closer actually to what I said.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 20):
Take 15 min to the airport in GVA, 45 min for check-in and security (which is not much), 50 min flight (this the block time Swiss has in its time-tables, incl. taxiing-flight-taxiing), another 40 min to get of the aircraft and get to the city, then you have at least 2 h 30 min: at least.

And I also invite to try it out. As I always said, it was practical when I lived in GVA but no more if I have to drive 1 hour to the airport. That's why I compared the trip time from airport to airport for both, train and plane. And not from city stations as you did.

Anyway I stay with my opinion as to for one living in GVA, the plane is WAYS quicker and funnier than stinky trains.

It's not my aim to hurt you sensibility about the CFF/SBB/FFS but just my point of view. It's maybe time to sell you SBB shares  Wink
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 22):
That's why I compared the trip time from airport to airport for both, train and plane

You sure ?  Wink

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 18):
You probably never took a train between the 2 cities



Quoting HBJZA (Reply 22):
Anyway I stay with my opinion

That's for sure, and my aim wasn't to force you into mine.

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 22):
It's not my aim to hurt you sensibility

I'm not hurt.  Big grin

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 21):
The worst thing about the military service was travelling through whole switzerland twice every weekend

I can understand that.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 21):
I also find that the train fares have become ridicolousely high over the past few years

We are still considered as a very whealthy country, so...

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 21):
I for one just completely dislike traveling by train, and i dont even know why.

Come on!  Wink

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 21):
I always feel so uncomfortable and somehow dont manage to sit down and relax

Would you like to talk about it?  Big grin
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 23):

We are still considered as a very whealthy country, so...

Yes, i know, a wealthy country where the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger and bigger, did you follow the latest political debate?

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 23):

I think its an extreme form of love to airtravel Big grin I dont like travelling by car either, as a matter of fact i dont liek any landtraveling, not even trams Big grin
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 24):
a wealthy country where the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger and bigger

That's so true!

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 24):
did you follow the latest political debate?

Which one ?

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 24):
as a matter of fact i dont liek any landtraveling, not even trams

So the question is, are you flying or walking the rest of the time ?  Big grin
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
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RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:43 pm

I guess it depends from where you start.
Me, it would be Winkel-ZRH-GVA-GVA-city by air.

Bus to airport 20min.
Check-in & S-check 45min.
travel time 55 min. incl. de boarding
cab to city 20 min.

Total about 2:20hrs. by air....

By train

Winkel-ZRH HB-GVA-City

Bus to Kloten 12 min.
Train to HB 14 min.
Train HB - GVA 2:42hrs. as per SBB

Total about 3:08hrs.

So if you are closer to the city then SBB is ok but if you are closer to the airport like me, go by air, that is just my opinion....  Wink if time is the issue.

Cheers,
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 26):
So if you are closer to the city then SBB is ok but if you are closer to the airport like me, go by air, that is just my opinion....

I couldn't agree more! However, of course, it also depends on $$ Big grin

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 25):
Which one ?

Well, actually, it's not exactly a political debate just yet, but there was an interesting discussion on ARENA on SF1 about the gap between rich and poor getting bigger in switzerland.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why No Low Fares GVA-ZRH Anymore?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting HBJZA (Reply 22):
Genève aéroport to Zürich flughafen is 3 hours and 10

Please read my post: I said from airport to airport the plane is better, but for sure not from city-center to city-center. Therefore you can not take the time from GVA to ZRH by train.

[Edited 2006-12-12 18:57:29]