CB777
Topic Author
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Air France 777's

Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:26 pm

Is it true that Air France is returning some of their 777 200's back to the leasing companies?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting CB777 (Thread starter):
Is it true that Air France is returning some of their 777 200's back to the leasing companies?

I've heard these stories before, and I find them hard to believe because they are retrofitting all 25 of them and they need the capacity to further reinforce the longhaul network. Lots of potential for further growth remains unanswered because of capacity restrictions.
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:08 am

What version of the AF 772ER flies CDG-IAD?
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HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 2):
What version of the AF 772ER flies CDG-IAD?

Right now, both daily flights operate with the non-reconfigured aircraft, but towards the end of the winter schedule the second daily flight will go with the new configuration and for the summer season all B772ER flights will operate with the new configuration.
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Right now, both daily flights operate with the non-reconfigured aircraft, but towards the end of the winter schedule the second daily flight will go with the new configuration and for the summer season all B772ER flights will operate with the new configuration.

Hi HB, thanks for your reply

what is this old and new configuration? can you please elaborate!  Smile
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tsaord
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:34 am

Does AF like its mix of long range Boeing and Airbus aircraft? ORD never gets the 777 from AF, that I have seen since I worked here. On some routes to the U.S they use the T7 and on others the A340(I believe it is). Any reason to the mix and match?
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gmale72
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:49 am

AF's 777's are fitted with F/J/Y and only operate to Premium destinations (ie JFK, YUL, IAD ) and the A340/A330 are 2 class J/Y and operate to the remainder ( YYZ, EWR, ORD) The 777 fleet are all being refitted with the new 3rd Generation Biz Seat over the course of the next few months.
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 6):
AF's 777's are fitted with F/J/Y and only operate to Premium destinations (ie JFK, YUL, IAD ) and the A340/A330 are 2 class J/Y and operate to the remainder ( YYZ, EWR, ORD) The 777 fleet are all being refitted with the new 3rd Generation Biz Seat over the course of the next few months.

How about their 747s to India and Africa?
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gmale72
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:59 am

747 fleet is also a 2 class product J/Y only
India and some African destinations get 777's

YYZ is going from A340 to 747 for next summer, so no difference in Product, just capacity.
 
IberiaA319
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 4):
what is this old and new configuration? can you please elaborate!

- Old Version : 12P / 56J / 202Y
- New Version : 4P / 49J / 211Y

Even some of the CDG-IAD flights (AF0026) were recently (until Oct. 27) with the new configuration, and ten days ago AF0028 was with a B773 (registration F-GSQM)!!!
 
IberiaA319
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 8):
747 fleet is also a 2 class product J/Y only

Two 744, F-GISA and F-GISB, are still around with First class and operate to YUL and DEL with a config.: 13P / 58J (28 main deck + 30 Upper deck) / 324Y

Will be converted into freighters.

[Edited 2006-12-11 02:30:04]
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 10):
Will be converted into freighters.

Once converted, what will DEL see next winter, i know in the summer it gets A343.
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707437
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:44 am

Their newer 773's have two configurations a typical longhaul layout 310 seats and a rather high density layout with a seat count that A340 will never even touch. . .472 seats!

AF has 772 with 264 seats and 773 with 472 seats not bad versatility. . .

The ability to have economy class at 9 or 10 across is a nice 777 feature when converting to a higher density economy layout. . . some routes need that kind of pax density to be profitable. . .
 
jycarlisle
Posts: 242
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:30 pm

Do what ever you want to, dear AF, but leave F-GSPM ALONE.  Smile

Amitiés,
Jeremy Carlisle
"CHANGE IS: CLEAN PLANES AND DIRTY MARTINIS" (DL)
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 5):
ORD never gets the 777 from AF, that I have seen since I worked here.

ORD is one of the weaker performers in the Air France transatlantic network. The flight does currently not even operate daily, and Air France now sends regularly the A332, its smallest longhaul aircraft, to ORD, whereas the flight used to be always with A343.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 11):
Once converted, what will DEL see next winter, i know in the summer it gets A343.

I would venture to guess that DEL might get one of the two class B744s. A swap with YYZ looks likely and so DEL would then get the B744 whereas YYZ would get the A343 for the winter. The extra B744 capacity is coming from the COI network, where 3 additional 2-class B77Ws are about to join the fleet and the surplus B744 capacity will then be reconfigured to the AF mainline standards, and used on such routes as YYZ and ATL for the summer.

Quoting 707437 (Reply 12):
Their newer 773's have two configurations a typical longhaul layout 310 seats and a rather high density layout with a seat count that A340 will never even touch. . .472 seats!

Those high density B77Ws are based at ORY and are only used for traditional holiday destinations in the Caribbean and Indian Ocean. Currently, the 2-class B77W fleet consists of 4 frames, but 3 additional aircraft will be added shortly.
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
I would venture to guess that DEL might get one of the two class B744s. A swap with YYZ looks likely and so DEL would then get the B744 whereas YYZ would get the A343 for the winter.

How many 747 does AF operate right now? Don't you think DEL might start getting the 77W from winter 2007?
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aad665
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 10):
Two 744, F-GISA and F-GISB, are still around with First class and operate to YUL and DEL with a config.: 13P / 58J (28 main deck + 30 Upper deck) / 324Y

Will be converted into freighters.

Wrong!

I was sitted in upper deck in Y. But the Y upperdeck have IFE, not the lower deck.

aad665
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 15):
How many 747 does AF operate right now? Don't you think DEL might start getting the 77W from winter 2007?

They operate 16 B744 pax aircraft right now. 9 are configured in the AF mainline 2-class layout, 2 remain in the old 3-class configuration and will be converted to freighters soon, and 5 more are in the so-called COI configuration with a limited 17-seat C-class section. These last 5 aircraft will gradually be reconfigured to the AF mainline standards as they are replaced by additional 2-class B77Ws.

As for DEL, I guess it is possible that AF would send a B77W over there as well, but it would make much more sense to decide once and for all whether DEL is gonna be a 2-class or a 3-class destination. As it goes, DEL operated 2-class in summer and right now 3-class in winter.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Aad665 (Reply 16):
Wrong!

I was sitted in upper deck in Y. But the Y upperdeck have IFE, not the lower deck.

You are wrong. And if you flew in Y at the upper deck, you did not fly on F-GISA or F-GISB as these two aircraft are still in the old configuration with 30 Business Class at the U/D.
And as IberiaA319 mentionned, they are schedulled to leave the PAX fleet in 2007 and 2008 for conversion into full freighter, a third B744 being schedulled also for freighter conversion in 2009.

Concerning the PTV in Y at the upper deck, ALL the 14 reconfigured B744 have them . 3 a/c have them ALSO in Y on the main deck (F-GITJ, TH, TI ).


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mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 17):
COI configuration

I am sorry, but what does COI stand for? So DEL always sees F-GISA/B, never the other 14 B744s?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 17):
As it goes, DEL operated 2-class in summer and right now 3-class in winter.

Why is that? More premium pax during the winter??
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mindscape
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:14 am

Hello,

Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 6):
The 777 fleet are all being refitted with the new 3rd Generation Biz Seat over the course of the next few months

Do you know which of the AF B772 (or may be FLYSSC knows) are refitted with the 3rd generation of Business seats (vs the 2nd generation called NEV) ?
I know that F-GSPA/B/C and some others are already refitted with the NEV interior (2nd generation or seats). I will fly to PVG end of December and was wondering if i would be able to get a B772ER with the latest Biz seats !

Q.
 
IberiaA319
Posts: 574
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 19):
but what does COI stand for?

Carribean-Indian Ocean network

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 19):
So DEL always sees F-GISA/B, never the other 14 B744s?

Since the beginning of the winter schedule yes. Only once it was F-GISD, on Dec. 6.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 20):
Do you know which of the AF B772 (or may be FLYSSC knows) are refitted with the 3rd generation of Business seats

F-GSPC has them.
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 22):
F-GSPC has them

Thank you FLYSSC... Do you know which version of B772 are flying to PVG - old config, NEV1, NEV2 - ?
 
IberiaA319
Posts: 574
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 23):
Do you know which version of B772 are flying to PVG - old config, NEV1, NEV2 - ?

You'll probably fly with the old config..............:

AF0112

11/12/2006 F-GSPY
10/12/2006 F-GSPH
09/12/2006 F-GSPG
08/12/2006 F-GSPE
07/12/2006 F-GSPD
06/12/2006 F-GSPT
05/12/2006 F-GSPV
04/12/2006 F-GSPD
03/12/2006 F-GSPG
02/12/2006 F-GSPE
01/12/2006 F-GSPD
30/11/2006 F-GSPT
29/11/2006 F-GSPJ
28/11/2006 F-GSPH
27/11/2006 F-GSPT
26/11/2006 F-GSPJ
25/11/2006 F-GSPF
24/11/2006 F-GSPT
23/11/2006 F-GSPX

AF0116 (3x weekly)

09/12/2006 F-GSPD
08/12/2006 F-GSPJ
05/12/2006 F-GSPE
03/12/2006 F-GSPF
01/12/2006 F-GSPK
28/11/2006 F-GSPF
26/11/2006 F-GSPK
24/11/2006 F-GSPO
21/11/2006 F-GSPG
19/11/2006 F-GSPT
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 24):
You'll probably fly with the old config..............:

Thank you Iberia 319

However I did a quick search in the database and found this :
this

Quoting FLYSSC:
B772ER
- Old Version : 12P / 56J / 202Y - 16 aircraft are still in this 'old" config today (Nov.1st). They should all be reconfigured by April 2007
- New Version : 4P / 49J / 211Y - 9 aircraft are in this config : F-GSPA, PB, PC, PL, PM, PN, PO, PQ.
PTVs in ALL classes, what ever the configuration.

Back to the initial topic, I agree with HB-IWC, that would be odd from AF to return 7 of B772 (F-GSPG/H/Q/R/T/V/X) to ILFC...

Q.
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:41 am

So IAD-CDG sees the newer version of B772ER??
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IberiaA319
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 26):
So IAD-CDG sees the newer version of B772ER??

 no  , you see the old config as well. However there are exceptions: Today AF0026/7, CDG-IAD was operated with a 777-300ER, F-GSQD, this one used normally for destinations such as NRT or LAX. Ten days ago you had a 773 as well and in November you saw exceptionally F-GSPA on CDG-IAD, with the new config.

During the past summer schedule, you saw the 772 with the new config on some flights of AF0028/39 (the other daily CDG-IAD flight).
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 26):
So IAD-CDG sees the newer version of B772ER??

Again, right now both flights are scheduled with the B772ER with old configuration. Of course, exceptions do occur now and then but that is what is scheduled. Somewhere in March, the second flight will be operated with a refurbished frame, as more aircraft go through the retrofit process. For the summer, all IAD flights will have the new cabins: AF will first deploy 2 B772ERs and will later change one of those flights with a B77W during the peak travel months. The third daily flight will operate with a mix of A343 and A332, both of which have a 2-class interior.
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:55 am

Well I am hoping for the B77W on Dec 31st!!!  Smile
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HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 29):
Well I am hoping for the B77W on Dec 31st

For now, both flights on that day are scheduled to be operated with a non reconfigured B772ER:

AF028 CDG 10:15 IAD 12:50 772 P9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 Y9 B9 K9 H7 W0 T0 V0 L0 N0 G0 U0
AF026 CDG 16:40 IAD 19:10 772 P9 F9 A2 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 Y9 B9 K9 H9 W3 T3 V0 L0 N0 G0 U0
 
mk777
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):

What are all those alphabets and #s??

How abt AF 148 on Jan 1st??
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FlySSC
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 25):
Back to the initial topic, I agree with HB-IWC, that would be odd from AF to return 7 of B772 (F-GSPG/H/Q/R/T/V/X) to ILFC...

Right.
Not only AF should not withdraw any B777 from use, but you can expect AF will add more of them (probably -300ER ) in the close future as a replacement of the B744, and because of the delay in the A380 delivery.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3030218
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 31):
How abt AF 148 on Jan 1st??

I presume you are flying IAD-CDG-DEL on Dec31/Jan01, in which case this is the availability of your flights:

AF039 IAD 16:55 CDG 06:20 772 P9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 O0 Y9 B9 K9 H7 W0 T2 V0 X0 L0 N0 G0
AF148 CDG 10:25 DEL 23:00 744 P9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 O0 Y9 B9 K9 H7 W0 T2 V0 X0 L0 N0 G0

AF039 is a 3-class B772ER with old configuration. AF148 is one of two non-reconfigured 3-class B744s.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 am

AF's standard availability there I see... F9 A0, Z9 O0  Yeah sure
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mk777
Posts: 888
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:30 am

thanks HB-IWC  Smile

Are these seat availability in different classes?? P, J, A, Y, B, K H etc???

How abt AF147/AF028 on jan 16th for my return leg, oh btw you presumed right!!  Wink
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HB-IWC
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:35 am

The letters represent the booking classes, with P/F/A standing for First Class (L'Espace Premiere), J/C/D/I/Z/O for Business Class (L'Espace Affaires) and the others for Economy.

Here is the availability for your return flights on Jan16:

AF147 DEL 01:20 CDG 05:40 744 P9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 O0 Y9 B9 K9 H9 W0 T9 V0 X0 L0 N0 G0
AF028 CDG 10:15 IAD 12:50 772 P9 F9 A0 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 O0 Y9 B9 K9 H9 W0 T9 V0 X0 L0 N0 G0

AF147 is operated with a 3-class non-reconfigured B744, whereas AF028 goes with a non-reconfigured B772ER as indicated by the First availability of at least 9 seats. Reconfigured B772s only have 4 seats in First.
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:03 am

Hello,

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 33):
AF039 is a 3-class B772ER with old configuration. AF148 is one of two non-reconfigured 3-class B744s

HB-IWC, may I ask you the same type of information for the following flights (NEV or old config) :
AF 116 on 12/23
AF 117 on 12/31

Thanks !
 
goldorak
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RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
ORD is one of the weaker performers in the Air France transatlantic network. The flight does currently not even operate daily, and Air France now sends regularly the A332, its smallest longhaul aircraft, to ORD, whereas the flight used to be always with A343.

AFAIK, A343 is used in summer and A332 in winter. And I remember in 1996, they were using B742 ! After that, AF has even flew the route twice a day with B767-300ER. What a change.
It has always seemed strange to me why this route doesn't perform well, as Chicago is the 3rd US city, a very important business destination as well as a touristic destination too. Do you know the average AF loads on ORD ?
In fact, it seems that CDG-ORD doesn't perform so well also for the 2 other carriers : AA and UA. They are both using 767-300ER. UA also flew the route twice daily but very shortly
 
HB-IWC
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 37):
HB-IWC, may I ask you the same type of information for the following flights (NEV or old config) :
AF 116 on 12/23
AF 117 on 12/31

Both flights are scheduled to operate with a B772ER in old configuration. Here is the availability overview:

AF116 CDG 23:25 PVG 17:25 772 P9 F9 A9 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 Y9 B9 K9 H9 W9 T9 V9 L6 N0 G0 U0
AF117 PVG 12:00 CDG 17:30 772 P8 F8 A7 J9 C9 D9 I9 Z9 Y9 B9 K9 H9 W9 T9 V9 L9 N0 G0 U0

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 38):
AFAIK, A343 is used in summer and A332 in winter. And I remember in 1996, they were using B742 ! After that, AF has even flew the route twice a day with B767-300ER. What a change

This winter, for the first time, Air France has reduced the frequency of CDG ORD to less than daily, as AF050/051 is only operating 6 times weekly. The flight operates with a mixture of A332 and A343 though.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Air France 777's

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:21 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 39):
This winter, for the first time, Air France has reduced the frequency of CDG ORD to less than daily, as AF050/051 is only operating 6 times weekly

it was already the case last winter
 
mk777
Posts: 888
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RE: Air France 777's

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:28 am

are the a/cs similar for dec 30th/dec31st for IAD-CDG-DEL??
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HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
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RE: Air France 777's

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 41):
are the a/cs similar for dec 30th/dec31st for IAD-CDG-DEL??

Yes, both days IAD CDG has a non reconfigured B772ER and CDG DEL a 3-class non reconfigured B744, but it seems that flights on 31Dec/01Jan are emptier than the 30Dec/31Dec combination.
 
mk777
Posts: 888
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RE: Air France 777's

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 42):

thanks Nick. I was wondering if the extra leg room seats (next to doors) are pre assigned or do they assign them at check in??
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HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air France 777's

Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 43):
I was wondering if the extra leg room seats (next to doors) are pre assigned or do they assign them at check in?

As far as I know, Air France never gives away those seats in advance, not even to its own Flying Blue Elite members. So, yes, it is all happening at the airport.
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:28 pm

RE: Air France 777's

Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 39):
Both flights are scheduled to operate with a B772ER in old configuration

Thank you HB-IWC.
It's a pitty to get the old configuration... i would have expected to see NEV1 or better NEV2 seats on PVG destination...
 
FlySSC
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France 777's

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 20):
Do you know which of the AF B772 (or may be FLYSSC knows) are refitted with the 3rd generation of Business seats (vs the 2nd generation called NEV) ?

As I mentionned above, F-GSPC have them, and F-GSPU also.

A total of 10 B772ER are now modified with the new configuration.
 
purplebox
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:45 pm

Hi,

I'm flying AF276 CDG-NRT on the 21st (B772ER) and AF277 NRT-CDG on the 31st (B773ER).

What can I expect in Y, will there be PTV?

PurpleBox.

[Edited 2006-12-19 04:54:02]
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
jouy31
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 4:59 pm

RE: Air France 777's

Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 47):
will there be PTV?

Yes, for both the B772ER and the B773ER.
 
Mennix
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:54 pm

RE: Air France 777's

Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:10 pm

Can anybody tell me, which C-Class I'll get on AF990 Dec. 23rd CDF-JNB and AF 995 Jan 5th JNB-CDG? Is it old, Nev1 or Nev 2?

AF told me on the phone, that it is the old one ( is Nev 1 old too ? ). On the other hand AF website tells me all Long flights have full flat seats. This information is quite necessary to calculate ( like pilots do ) the qty. of fuel ( red whine ) I have to load in the lounge for the entire flight ( to sleep ).

Thanks in advance

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