phxplanes
Posts: 381
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PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:27 am

This article was in the paper this morning in PHX, I searched and am surprised know one has posted it yet.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1210skyharbor1210.html
That is why they believe the construction of a new 33-gate terminal is the single most important project at Sky Harbor. The building, which will require the demolition of aging Terminal 2, is expected to cost $750 million, though officials say that is a very fluid figure.

They had a nice diagram in the paper but it wasnt online.
Basically they are going to build a new terminal two (possibly for southwest) build two new cross field taxi ways and a people mover to connect everything.

Personally I think they need to build another runway before they go adding more gates.

[Edited 2006-12-10 17:28:43]
 
stirling
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:40 am

This was discussed back in the developmental stage, good to see they are moving forward.

Is that hangar still there between the terminals?
That needs to be moved somewhere else....but it went in back when Sky Harbor was just a paved spot in the desert.

Heck, I remember flying into Phoenix before I think there were even jetways! My first flight to Sky Harbor was on good ol' Western Airlines ("The Only Way To Fly!"), aboard a 720. We left Portland in the rain and 55 degrees, arrived 3 hours later in Phoenix in the sun and 107!
Stepping outside was like opening the door of an oven! That was when it was just Terminals 1 and 2, and Van Buren was lined wall-to-wall with seedy (and some nice) motels. I also have faint memories of this one motel I was totally fascinated with, it had a MONORAIL that shuttled people from the lobby to their rooms and other parts of the property! I have never seen anything like it since. (Well, except maybe Disney)

Back then, there was space for what seemed like years! Hard to believe now the airport is completely surrounded!

It all seems like yesterday.
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dutchjet
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:50 am

Let hope that this new terminal building will not become the home of the ""new Delta"" hub at PHX.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:05 am

I fly out of Terminal 2 all the time, as CO has their gates there. If they are going to redesign the terminal, why dump all the money they are dumping now for better lobby, bigger security, more shops, restaurant changes, the new baggage building next to the terminal, etc. if they are going to demolish/tear down/reshape the terminal in the first place?

Seems like a waste of taxpayers money.
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warreng24
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3):
Seems like a waste of taxpayers money.

PHX is self-funding from bonds, passenger fees, parking fees, renta car surcharges, etc...
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
PHX is self-funding from bonds, passenger fees, parking fees, renta car surcharges, etc...

I stand corrected. Still a huge waste of however the money is raised/collected.
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MMEPHX
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting Phxplanes (Thread starter):
If they are going to redesign the terminal, why dump all the money they are dumping now for better lobby, bigger security, more shops, restaurant changes, the new baggage building next to the terminal, etc. if they are going to demolish/tear down/reshape the terminal in the first place?

Seems like a waste of taxpayers money.

The new terminal won't be finished until 2012-14 so the upgrades make sense to keep up with the current demand. I'll miss T2 when it goes, it is really easy to get in/out of the terminal.

If the new T2 goes to WN where will UA, CO, AS go? T3 or T4?
 
FCYTravis
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:09 am

There's lots of room in T3 for CO and AS. It would make sense for UA to move into T4 with their erstwhile *A partner, US. (Assuming the partnership remains.)

It's also been discussed that there are plans to build out the fourth southside concourse on T4 for Mesa's USX ops, which will help clear out the international terminal.
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thegooddoctor
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Phxplanes (Thread starter):

They had a nice diagram in the paper but it wasnt online.

There are lots of diagrams in the development plan - which is online: http://phoenix.gov/AVIATION/support_..._and_program_criteria_document.pdf

Calls for 10 concourses total - and will eventually link West with T4.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Let hope that this new terminal building will not become the home of the ""new Delta"" hub at PHX.

...whine whine - I'm trying to remember if this thread is about the Delta merger?? And if it goes through, we promise you never ever have to fly Delta through the PHX hub (ATL will still be there).

But don't worry, we added your vote to the box  Wink

Quoting MMEPHX (Reply 6):
The new terminal won't be finished until 2012-14 so the upgrades make sense to keep up with the current demand. I'll miss T2 when it goes, it is really easy to get in/out of the terminal.

Yes - it also appears most of the potential plans include adding a concourse to T3 in the interim.
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AirframeAS
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:43 am

I recall seeing a thread about this before, it has been discussed... I cannot find it, damn search button still does NOT work!

Edit: Found it: http://www1.airliners.net/discussion...344&s=Phoenix+Terminal+2#ID2748344

[Edited 2006-12-11 02:46:53]
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freedom747
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:06 am

Expansion plans, eh? Running outta room for wheelchair storage?  rotfl 
 
steeler83
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 8):
There are lots of diagrams in the development plan - which is online: http://phoenix.gov/AVIATION/support_..._and_program_criteria_document.pdf

Calls for 10 concourses total - and will eventually link West with T4.

I saw the diagram. It looks rather impressive

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Let hope that this new terminal building will not become the home of the ""new Delta"" hub at PHX.

Just what we need, for this to become another USDL merger thread...

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3):
I fly out of Terminal 2 all the time, as CO has their gates there. If they are going to redesign the terminal, why dump all the money they are dumping now for better lobby, bigger security, more shops, restaurant changes, the new baggage building next to the terminal, etc. if they are going to demolish/tear down/reshape the terminal in the first place?

Seems like a waste of taxpayers money.



Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
PHX is self-funding from bonds, passenger fees, parking fees, renta car surcharges, etc...

Even at that, I wouldn't think of this being a waste of money. I believe that a bigger more efficient terminal will be needed in the future for PHX. US intends to grow their hub there, and what about the other carriers there. Suppose PHX attracts more international carriers there thanks to the US hub there that will grow? Where is the extra traffic going to go? Besides, have any idea as to how much of an economic impact a hub has on the surrounding area? A huge one! They can employ tens of thousands directly and support several tens of thousands more...
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monorail
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 8):
There are lots of diagrams in the development plan - which is online: http://phoenix.gov/AVIATION/support_...t.pdf

A pretty good read, it took me a minute to figure out it was from 2000 though.

(from the discussion of the airport's biggest carriers, HP and WN)

Quoting from the above link, page 10:
B. America West/Mesa/Continental Enplanement Forecast
PHX's hub carrier and its affiliates Mesa and Continental Airlines are expected to grow...

Threw me off at first since I thought it was a recent release. I was going to say, where have they been the last few years?  spin 
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phxplanes
Posts: 381
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 1):
Is that hangar still there between the terminals?

No they knocked that down before they built the third extension of the south T3 concourse.

I thought a funny comment in the article was when T2 was completed in the 60's they figured it would be big enough to last until about 2000. They were a little off on that.
 
Cactus742
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:36 pm

Are the physical plans in that 2000 book still up to date?
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thegooddoctor
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Monorail (Reply 12):
Threw me off at first since I thought it was a recent release. I was going to say, where have they been the last few years?



Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 14):
Are the physical plans in that 2000 book still up to date?

As far as I know this is the most up to date plan. Obviously the cost figures are probably not (since anyone who pays attention knows this has gone way up in the past couple of years). I am pretty sure that this was the plan that was submitted for the environmental impact study as well as the FAA - remember it takes them a *few years* to say yes or no to anything  Wink

There are also other documents at phxskyharbor.com that came out of those decisions with more recent dates, but since someone mentioned diagrams - this had the best ones (all the different configurations looked at).


This has been the plan all along - I think the only reason this is news is because it went to budget recently and money (when it has a lot of zero's in it) always gets public attention. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they are going to start the 4th south concourse and some of the the preliminary work in preparation for "ground breaking".
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incitatus
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 8):
There are lots of diagrams in the development plan - which is online:

The document mentions the assumption of 3.2% annual growth in international traffic. That is a gross underestimate. Especially if the acquisition of Delta goes through, Phoenix should experience a boom in international traffic.
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thegooddoctor
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
The document mentions the assumption of 3.2% annual growth in international traffic. That is a gross underestimate. Especially if the acquisition of Delta goes through, Phoenix should experience a boom in international traffic.

LOL! Yeah, I'm pretty sure they were hoping KLM or Air France would start up a flight in the next 5-10 years when they wrote the original 2000 plan. I really doubt anyone had images of HP buying two large airlines in their crystal ball  Wink
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steeler83
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RE: PHX Plans Big Changes

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
The document mentions the assumption of 3.2% annual growth in international traffic. That is a gross underestimate. Especially if the acquisition of Delta goes through, Phoenix should experience a boom in international traffic.

I think if/when US takes delivery of the A350/787, there will be substantial international growth there. PHX-Europe... I suppose if US could take more A330s than what they currently have on order, they could open up a few more latin American routes or even open up South America....

Oh wait, Parker said he has no interest... darn
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