leelaw
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FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:53 pm

Flight International 12/12/06:

"Airbus Rethinks Move To Axe A300-600 Freighter"

According to the article the manufacturer is in preliminary talks with suppliers to reverse the plan to close the A300 production line in mid-2007 because of increasing demand for freighters and continuing indecision over the launch of the A330-200F.

...[Tom] Williams [V.P. programmes at Airbus] says that there have been "some people knocking on the door" for potential A300 orders...[and] that Airbus has "booked memorandums of understandings" with customers for the initial A330-200[F] positions it is offering at the end of 2009, and "has reserved a block of A330 production capacity" after that. But despite demand for the new freighter, Airbus has balked at formally launching the A330-200F and taking firm orders for it.

Sources say this may be because the A330 passenger model's replacement -the A350- will enter service several years later than planned when the A330-200F was first touted. The airframer wants to ensure it does not restrict supply of the passenger A3330s as it bridges the gap to the A350's introduction.


Sorry for all the edits.

[Edited 2006-12-11 10:03:24]

[Edited 2006-12-11 10:04:58]

[Edited 2006-12-11 10:07:08]

[Edited 2006-12-11 10:13:31]
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scouseflyer
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:01 pm

If they're talking like this - someone must be trying to order some more....
 
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BreninTW
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:04 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
someone must be trying to order some more..

Or convert A380F orders ...
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:05 pm

Might be quite a good move. Jade Cargo was said to be quite interested into the A306F for their regional freighter demand, Ethiopian Cargo was said to be quite disappointed that the A306F was axed. Might be quite some potential out there.

Question is OTOH if they are able to get production restarted. Would however assume that this shouldn´t be such a big challenge as the line is still operating and not yet closed down.

Would be a very good financial impact for Airbus - the complete line is paid off, and everything above variable costs is basically profit for them.

So, whom can we put on the "possible customer" list?

- Jade Cargo
- Ethiopian
- Ethiad Crystal Cargo (?)
- Qatar Cargo (?)
- Air Hong Kong (?)
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scouseflyer
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 2):

Or convert A380F orders ...

Never thought of that one....

As far as restarting the line - I wonder if they don't need to demolish the hanger that the A300 is built in just yet (A350 coming in 2013 not 2010) then there's not the pressure there.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:26 pm

Continuing the A300F will also take the pressure off for making a decision on the A332F -- developing the A332F will absorb cash that Airbus doesn't necessarily have floating around at the moment, or would prefer to throw at the A350. I'm sure cargo doesn't have quite the same fetish for the latest shiny hardware that pax do.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:31 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 5):
I'm sure cargo doesn't have quite the same fetish for the latest shiny hardware that pax do.

Or the profit margin on planes!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:52 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 2):
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
someone must be trying to order some more..

Or convert A380F orders ...

UPS?
 
brightcedars
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:08 pm

There are still a nice number of A300-600Rs flying around the world and they could probably most be converted into freighters. I don't see a huge market for new builds.
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scouseflyer
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:18 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 8):
There are still a nice number of A300-600Rs flying around the world and they could probably most be converted into freighters. I don't see a huge market for new builds.

If people will pay for them and if you can build them and you can make a profit - then there's a market
 
WINGS
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:38 pm

Well I have to admit that this latest development was really unexpected. If Airbus feels that the A300F still has potential in the market, I see no reason why they should not continue with the line.

According to my numbers Airbus has the following orders for the A300/310 family:

A300 561 (555 delivered)
A310 255 (all delivered)

* 5x A310 for Iraqi Airways still show up on the order list. (A310 production has officially been terminated)

Total: 816


It seems that Airbus are not yet ready to let go of the their first born child  Smile

Regards,
Wings
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breiz
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 3):
So, whom can we put on the "possible customer" list?

FEDEX.
They cancelled their remaining 25 or so A300F order when ordering the A380s.
Now that the A380 order is down the drain, maybe the A300Fs will be considered again?
 
PADSpot
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:54 pm

With the AB6-line further open, it could also open the door for a potential updated AB6 pax-version (new engines, winglets, aerodynamic tweaking and a new cabin) which could easily compete with the B783 as it is being 15 tons lighter ... with a low break-even point (and thus low development costs) of, let's say, 50 frames it could be worthwhile. They are quite a few airlines who are directly oder indirectly asking for an alternative to the B783. LH leading the way ...
 
manni
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 3):
So, whom can we put on the "possible customer" list?

- Jade Cargo
- Ethiopian
- Ethiad Crystal Cargo (?)
- Qatar Cargo (?)
- Air Hong Kong (?)

Galaxy Airlines of Japan recently took delivery of their first new build freighter. Apart from a converted A300 they have no other aircraft in their fleet and no other outstanding orders. Perhaps them?
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columba
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
With the AB6-line further open, it could also open the door for a potential updated AB6 pax-version (new engines, winglets, aerodynamic tweaking and a new cabin) which could easily compete with the B783 as it is being 15 tons lighter ... with a low break-even point (and thus low development costs) of, let's say, 50 frames it could be worthwhile. They are quite a few airlines who are directly oder indirectly asking for an alternative to the B783. LH leading the way ...

An updated A300 passenger version would not fit anymore in Airbus family concept since it would not share any commonality with the rest of the product line.
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trex8
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 5):
developing the A332F will absorb cash that Airbus doesn't necessarily have floating around at the moment, or would prefer to throw at the A350.

how much could it possibly cost them when non OEMs regularly come up with pax to cargo conversions? plus they have put in a lot of work into the tankers already for the RAF and RAAF. one other reason they may be sitting on the fence for a A332F is deciding whether to re engine them.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting Breiz (Reply 11):
FEDEX.
They cancelled their remaining 25 or so A300F order when ordering the A380s.
Now that the A380 order is down the drain, maybe the A300Fs will be considered again?

But it is my understanding FEDEX might (?) re-order the A380's again....
Some interesting statements from Fedex Chairman recently make things look like a balance-sheet retreat from the A380 orders.
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brendows
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 3):
So, whom can we put on the "possible customer" list?

- Jade Cargo

Jade Cargo planned to operate the A300 on regional routes, but was banned from wet-leasing A300s by the Chinese authorities, so I wouldn't put them on this list no 
 
WINGS
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
With the AB6-line further open, it could also open the door for a potential updated AB6 pax-version (new engines, winglets, aerodynamic tweaking and a new cabin) which could easily compete with the B783 as it is being 15 tons lighter ... with a low break-even point (and thus low development costs) of, let's say, 50 frames it could be worthwhile. They are quite a few airlines who are directly order indirectly asking for an alternative to the B783. LH leading the way ...

Well you bring up an interesting point. The A300 fuselage still has great potential.

Quoting Manni (Reply 13):

Galaxy Airlines of Japan recently took delivery of their first new build freighter. Apart from a converted A300 they have no other aircraft in their fleet and no other outstanding orders. Perhaps them?

I always found it strange that they operate so few. I still would expect FedEx and UPS, TNT as the most likely.

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
An updated A300 passenger version would not fit anymore in Airbus family concept since it would not share any commonality with the rest of the product line.

Why wouldn't it fit? Commonality didn't stop TAM acquiring the B77W, or LH form acquiring the B748i

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 16):
But it is my understanding FEDEX might (?) re-order the A380's again....
Some interesting statements from FedEx Chairman recently make things look like a balance-sheet retreat from the A380 orders.

FedEx had to make a choice, B772F or A388F. They currently don't have the cash to order both.

I still expect to see FedEx re-order the A388F in the future. It is a perfect fit for it's needs. By the time the A388F becomes available Airbus may have also incorporated further improvements and engines, which would make the A338F even more attractive.

Regards,
Wings
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PADSpot
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
An updated A300 passenger version would not fit anymore in Airbus family concept since it would not share any commonality with the rest of the product line.

May I quote myself?

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
(new engines, winglets, aerodynamic tweaking and a new cabin)

new engines = taken from A332 or A358 if already available
winglets/wingtip-fences = taken from A330/A340/A380 or even w/o any for extreme shorthauls (with LH in mind)
aerodynamic tweaking = wherever it may improve economics (but not changing larger structures)
cockpit = taken from A350/A330/A340 (same type-rating?)
cabin = taken from A330/A340/A350

Furthermore same fuselage diameter as A330/340, better cargo capabilities, far cheaper than the B783. The ideal airplane for large developing markets like India or China.

Commonality with the remaining product line wouldn't be an issue. It's money that counts. The B783 is a fake (B788 w/o wingtips) and fat package (105+tons). You wouldn't even need the latest engines (GenX) to make it a better plane than the B783. Roughly 15tons difference in OEW will make up for it ... if they can build such an aircraft for a couple of 100M€ in development costs it will pay out ...

The 737 has been updated three times, the 747 now get its third update. There is still life in the A300 and has also deserved its third update. Its also the youngest design of those three.
 
musapapaya
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 19):
new engines = taken from A332 or A358 if already available
winglets/wingtip-fences = taken from A330/A340/A380 or even w/o any for extreme shorthauls (with LH in mind)
aerodynamic tweaking = wherever it may improve economics (but not changing larger structures)
cockpit = taken from A350/A330/A340 (same type-rating?)
cabin = taken from A330/A340/A350

Furthermore same fuselage diameter as A330/340, better cargo capabilities, far cheaper than the B783. The ideal airplane for large developing markets like India or China.

Commonality with the remaining product line wouldn't be an issue. It's money that counts. The B783 is a fake (B788 w/o wingtips) and fat package (105+tons). You wouldn't even need the latest engines (GenX) to make it a better plane than the B783. Roughly 15tons difference in OEW will make up for it ... if they can build such an aircraft for a couple of 100M€ in development costs it will pay out ...

The 737 has been updated three times, the 747 now get its third update. There is still life in the A300 and has also deserved its third update. Its also the youngest design of those three.

Generally I love your idea - I think the A300 series is still worthwhile to be kept. At least it is a great aircraft to fly. If it is 100 tonnes lighter than the 783, then I also see its future.

I hope airbus can consider this too.
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leelaw
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:07 am

The full text of the FI summarized in the threadstarter is now available online:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ing+demands+for+cargo+variant.html
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columba
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 19):
Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
(new engines, winglets, aerodynamic tweaking and a new cabin)

new engines = taken from A332 or A358 if already available
winglets/wingtip-fences = taken from A330/A340/A380 or even w/o any for extreme shorthauls (with LH in mind)
aerodynamic tweaking = wherever it may improve economics (but not changing larger structures)
cockpit = taken from A350/A330/A340 (same type-rating?)
cabin = taken from A330/A340/A350

But still no fly by wire and no A320/A330 styled cockpit. A320/A330 crews would not be able to fly this aircraft. Maybe LH order this aircraft with the improvements mentioned by you since they already have trained A300 crews. But that would be less than 15 aircraft as they don´t want to replace their A300 1:1 as they have stated that they don´t plan to do so.
What other A306 operator would buy this plane and would it justify the development costs ? I don´t think so.
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Devilfish
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 15):
plus they have put in a lot of work into the tankers already for the RAF and RAAF.

Expressions of freighter interests aside, a long shot might be the USAF RFP's phased requirement for a smaller initial tanker.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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clickhappy
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:25 am

The A300-600R is not 100 tonnes lighter than the (proposed weight) of the 783.

I think you will find the number to be closer to 12 tonnes, and the 783 holds 30 more pax.
 
miamix707
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:22 am

Besides the A380 and A343 the 300 is the Airbus I like the most. I'd love to see more A300s being ordered.

Good news if Airbus finds more customers for it.
 
ncelhr
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
But still no fly by wire and no A320/A330 styled cockpit.

Couldn't Airbus do what MD/Boeing did with the DC10's converting them to MD10s?
 
FlyingColours
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):

But still no fly by wire and no A320/A330 styled cockpi

Yes but Airbus did convert one to FBW a long time ago (FBW controls on one side with the yoke on the skippers side). A lot of instruments can be converted onto CRTS to make it more common. With the instrumentation its only a case of the 737 & MD10....

I think Monarch could be intrested in such a model, they only have 4 A300s but they have a few A330s too...

I think there is much more life left in the A300/A310 its just a case of will Airbus do something about it.

Phil
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columba
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 26):
Couldn't Airbus do what MD/Boeing did with the DC10's converting them to MD10s?

still no fly by wire and sidesticks....
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
EI321
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:51 am

Question - Could Airbus possibly:

1. Put the A330 cockpit into the A300?
2. Create an A300-A332 hybrid (basically an A332 cockpit, interior but with A300 wings, fuselage length, landing gear, range etc)


Basically, what will happen to the A300 line if it the A300 is put to bed?
 
irobertson
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 14):
An updated A300 passenger version would not fit anymore in Airbus family concept since it would not share any commonality with the rest of the product line.

It was my impression that the A330/340 was a development of the same fuselage design as the A300/310 and that the major changes were wings, engines, and cockpit. It doesn't seem like it would require a huge amount of production changes in order to get it going again, and they could probably incorporate a few upgrades along the way, like a 330 cockpit with FBW and sidesticks.
 
EI321
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 30):
It doesn't seem like it would require a huge amount of production changes in order to get it going again, and they could probably incorporate a few upgrades along the way, like a 330 cockpit with FBW and sidesticks.

Part of the problem would be implementing all of those changes together, for instance the wings on the A330 and A300 are different, as are most of the systems, so the FBW systems would have to be redesigned for the A300 wings I think. A new certification would probably be needed which would be costly. It might be easier to just shorten the A332 and put her on a diet. Either way, its not as simple as it seems.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:38 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the A330, with its significantly larger, more modern wings have a larger lifting ability than the A300, despite both being of fairly similar size in terms of fuselage?
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ComeAndGo
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 24):
I think you will find the number to be closer to 12 tonnes, and the 783 holds 30 more pax.

… and has more fuel efficient engines.
 
PADSpot
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 24):
and the 783 holds 30 more pax.

I think for short-haul and regional business the 280pax that the A300 can (easily!) carry are already way enough for 90% of the potential customers. The Japanese wouldn't buy it anyway ...

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 33):
… and has more fuel efficient engines.

It would have bleed-air variants of the GenX engines ... difference would be marginal and anyway less important on short-haul routes. Weight is a much more important factor on short-haul routes.
 
jonathan-l
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:06 pm

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 26):
Couldn't Airbus do what MD/Boeing did with the DC10's converting them to MD10s?

It was an expensive move for the airlines that selected this option.

In the case of the A300, you don't even get the advantage of not needing a 3rd person in the cockpit.
 
A342
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 19):
new engines = taken from A332 or A358 if already available

Way too big.

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 34):
It would have bleed-air variants of the GenX engines ...

Now I agree, the GEnX engine for the 748 would suit an "A300NG".
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
barbarian
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 2):
If they're talking like this - someone must be trying to order some more....

Both UPS and Fedex expressed an interest in ordering a not insignificant number of aircraft.
Would imagine that as long as industrially Airbus could get back up and running, bring the supply chain back on line etc. UPS and Fedex would be getting a very good deal to sweeten the A380 delays (UPS) and encourage a re-order (Fedex). Has been bit quiet in regard to any order for a few weeks now, so maybe its no longer on the cards....
 
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breiz
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 35):
In the case of the A300, you don't even get the advantage of not needing a 3rd person in the cockpit.

That's correct for the B2 and B4 early version. The B4-600 has a two-crew cockpit.
 
EI321
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 38):
That's correct for the B2 and B4 early version. The B4-600 has a two-crew cockpit.

Well its only the 600 thats being proposed here.
 
leelaw
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Barbarian (Reply 37):
Both UPS and Fedex expressed an interest in ordering a not insignificant number of aircraft.

It seems odd that UPS would have any interest in acquiring additional new-build A306Fs when they converted outstanding orders for 37 of the type to 10 A380s in January of 2005.
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BreninTW
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 40):
It seems odd that UPS would have any interest in acquiring additional new-build A306Fs when they converted outstanding orders for 37 of the type to 10 A380s in January of 2005.

Does it Leelaw? Sitting on the outside, and not being privvy to any gossip other than what I read here on a.net, it makes a lot of sense to me.

The A300 orders where converted to the A380 in order to NOT lose the deposits paid on the A300's. Thus, UPS can't cancel the A380's without saying good-bye to a boatload of money.

The A380F is starting to look like a still-born -- with only one operator currently interested. It doesn't make sense (to me) to potentially be the only operator of a type that doesn't offer any resale possibilities.

The A380F will require new equipment to load the upper deck -- that will mean a huge investment in infrstructure at airports. Airports seem to be loathe to make that kind of investment, especially with the 748F taking the remaining breeze out of the A380F's sails. The A380F is really only suited to hub-to-hub operations from China to the US ... and Chinese airports are not going to invest in the infrastructure needed for the A380F.

I think that the A380F is too much plane for airports at this moment in time (I do think that will change, but not in a hurry).

I also think that Airbus is playing "chicken" with UPS -- Airbus doesn't want to cancel/freeze the program -- it will mean they lose UPS' deposits, UPS doesn't want to lose the deposits, so it's keeping it's order in place. By offering UPS the A300F at a "bargain-basement" price, Airbus gets to keep the money, UPS gets freighters that are more suited to a wider variety of airports. The A300 lines and development costs are paid off, so they can profitably be sold to carriers at a lower price.

I think we may well find Airbus offering UPS the A300F option again -- I'm sure they're both talking about it. That way, both parties get a "face-saving" way out of the mess that the A380F program is at the moment -- neither will really get what they want, but neither will lose as much as they could.

These are just my thoughts -- I could be right on, I could be totally off. I guess time alone will time.

Bren
 
Rj111
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 12):
With the AB6-line further open, it could also open the door for a potential updated AB6 pax-version (new engines, winglets, aerodynamic tweaking and a new cabin) which could easily compete with the B783 as it is being 15 tons lighter ... with a low break-even point (and thus low development costs) of, let's say, 50 frames it could be worthwhile. They are quite a few airlines who are directly oder indirectly asking for an alternative to the B783. LH leading the way ...

I also think updating the A300 would be a great idea. It's a very lightweight aircraft, and although MTOW and range aren't great i feel a slight improvement here as well as efficieny gains throught the new engines would offer a great A-market aircraft.
 
leelaw
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 41):
That way, both parties get a "face-saving" way out of the mess that the A380F program is at the moment -- neither will really get what they want, but neither will lose as much as they could.

I'm not fathoming how that particular scenario is at all face saving for UPS, seems to me it makes them look like Airbus has them on a very short leash, actually more like a choke chain.  Smile
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barbarian
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 41):
It seems odd that UPS would have any interest in acquiring additional new-build A306Fs when they converted outstanding orders for 37 of the type to 10 A380s in January of 2005.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 43):
I'm not fathoming how that particular scenario is at all face saving for UPS, seems to me it makes them look like Airbus has them on a very short leash, actually more like a choke chain. Smile

Haven't UPS just bought out another carrier?
Honestly dont think it has anything to do with the A380 delays as such, just taking advantage of Airbus's embarrassment to get a good deal to replace an aging fleet.
Err, if they haven't just bought out another carrier, then forget I mentioned it, must have got my wires crossed...
 
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BreninTW
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 43):
seems to me it makes them look like Airbus has them on a very short leash

They've both got each other in a choke-hold -- UPS wants its money back, and doesn't really want the A380F, Airbus doesn't want to give UPS its money back, but the A380F is not as popular as Airbus hoped it would be ...

Sorry -- I could have phrased myself better.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:37 pm

Just for the records:

Air Cargo World lists MAS Kargo as being unable to lease A300 freighters due to unavailability. Makes one think if there is any lessor involved into the "relaunch talks".
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
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zeke
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 29):
1. Put the A330 cockpit into the A300?
2. Create an A300-A332 hybrid (basically an A332 cockpit, interior but with A300 wings, fuselage length, landing gear, range etc)

I think this would be possible, and I could suggest that maybe the upgraded A300 line come a combined A300/330/340 line sharing the same fuselage cross-section, and the 330/340 line become the A350XWB line.

Sharing the cockpit would be a smart idea, with the new A300F and 330F could then be crewed in the same fleet by the same pilots.

Airbus already completed a lot of work with the original A350 design which would fit into the A300 fuselage.

In my view an upgraded A300-600 would crap all over a 787-300 in the short haul domestic style market. The 787-300 is already something like 10t+ heavier and a little too big than the current A300-600. Making it FBW and AL-LI fuse, composite wing would cut more weight out of it again, a powerplant upgrade would improve payload and range.

A lot of people are looking for ways to replace A310/A300/757 size aircraft for 4-5 hr type sectors.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
bennett123
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:28 am

I suspect that the main market could be existing A300B operator trading up to A300-600 or people who need capacity quickly.
 
cf6ppe
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RE: FI: A300-600 Freighter May Get Reprieve

Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:47 pm

There are several factors that could possibly keep the A300-600F line open:

1) tight market for used A300-600 pax hulls available to convert to freighters

2) back log of used pax hulls waiting to be converted into freighters at the small number of conversion vendors (think of this as possible number of conversions per month or other time period)

3) the time frame for pax to freighter conversions to take place and all of the other involved - i.e., air frame mx, engine mx, paint to new fleet std., etc.

4) with low backlog of A300-600F orders, I would imagine that it could be quicker to order a new airframe and take delivery as opposed to converting a used hull