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N328KF
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IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:41 am

From The International Herald-Tribune. This is quite lengthy, so I felt it was better to simply post a link than excerpts:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/11/business/airbus.php?page=1
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dvautier
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:21 am

This is a great article and the first time I have heard of Computervision (CV) at use in Airbus. The article does a much better job at explaining some of the wiring problems and delays. I have never believed the Catia V4 and V5 explaination. Catia doesn’t do wiring. Never did.

Incidentally Boeing has been using CV since 1972 to perform part of the wiring operation. It does the schematic and wiring diagram production plus some continuity but most of the important wire bundle and connector production is handled by their WIRS system.
 
WINGS
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:31 am

An interesting and informative report. Well worth the time to read it. Thank you for sharing it with us N328KF.

Well like I have said on previous occasions, The Airbus management made their beds, now they have to sleep in it.

It's a shame that due to various minor issues, which could have been avoided at an early stage has lead to a delay of more then 2 years. It's even more sad when it seems that the A380 is meeting and even exceeding many of it's set targets.

Regards,
Wings
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Stitch
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
An interesting and informative report. Well worth the time to read it. Thank you for sharing it with us N328KF.

Indeed. Reinforced much of what we knew, dispelled some misconceptions, and supplied new insights.
 
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
It's even more sad when it seems that the A380 is meeting and even exceeding many of it's set targets.

Since Airbus knew of the A-380 wiring problem back in the summer of 2004, how do we know this is true?
 
WINGS
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):

Since Airbus knew of the A-380 wiring problem back in the summer of 2004, how do we know this is true?

Well actions speak louder then words. Both SQ and QF have placed additional orders despite the A380 program running two years late, which leaves one to believe that Airbus is doing something correct.

Their is a big difference between manufacturing issues, and performance issues.

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Wings
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:45 am

Quote:
"When they were sending barrel sections down here without the wiring, someone should have blown the whistle," Leahy said.

Nice of Leahy to speak openly, but he didn't finish his sentence: who should have blown the wistle?

Quote:
Frequently, wires that were installed one day would have to be ripped out the next.

Anyone want to buy that airplane?
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LawnDart
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:05 am

Excellent article, N328KF...thanks for sharing. And Dvautier, I have to commend you for taking technically challenging issues and making it easy enough for dummies like me to understand, not just here but in previous posts. Thanks for that!
 
NAV20
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:30 am

"The recent crisis has at least had the merit of being cathartic. Acrimony has eased, Airbus insiders say, and in the corner offices of Airbus headquarters, executives are beginning to speak more openly about the lessons learned.

"An almost preternatural calm prevails inside the superjumbo's vast assembly hall at Toulouse. Eight of the twin-deck planes stand in various stages of construction, a few already bearing the freshly painted logos of the jet's first impatient customers on their tail sections.

"Muffled voices speaking a handful of European languages waft faintly from deep inside the cavernous green fuselages. If only Airbus's various languages and cultures and layers of management had been aligned earlier."


If people are only just 'beginning' to speak more openly, and the assembly lines are 'preternaturally calm,' the article (mainly sourced to Leahy) gives the impression that Airbus hasn't solved all its problems, even yet?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
OU812
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
If people are only just 'beginning' to speak more openly, and the assembly lines are 'preternaturally calm,' the article (mainly sourced to Leahy) gives the impression that Airbus hasn't solved all its problems, even yet?

I gotta give it to Airbus/eads. They're more tight lipped than the CIA!
 
sstsomeday
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Since Airbus knew of the A-380 wiring problem back in the summer of 2004, how do we know this is true?

Aside from being late with the 380, for which Airbus has to pay compensation to customers, does the fact that Airbus kept the delays quiet for what amounted to almost a year (is that correct?) make Airbus guilty of fraud?

Or does it at least make Airbus even more liable for compensation packages since they were not forthcoming about delays? The reason I suggest this is: had they been forthcoming about the delays earlier, perhaps more airlines would have bailed on the project or delayed deliveries in order to meet their growth requirements in other ways, but Airbus appears to have deceived customers and strung them along.

I'm suggesting the production challenges cover-up is a separate issue from the production delays, and I wonder if Airbus can be held financially accountable for it?
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:19 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
Well actions speak louder then words. Both SQ and QF have placed additional orders despite the A380 program running two years late, which leaves one to believe that Airbus is doing something correct.

If you say this often enough WINGS you might even start to believe it. The fact is that the options price is so attractive that you would be crazy not to exercise them.

The real proof is NEW orders to which there are NONE because the price is a lot higher than launch discounts and Airlines are at a disadvantage from SQ and QF.

I will believe that performance has met or exceeded expectation when Airbus state it and wouldn't they shout that from the tree tops because of all the bad press over the last 12 months. What you had said appears to be comments that have gone from whispers to 'folklore'

Time will tell but at 275 tons OEW I doubt it
 
WINGS
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 12):

If you say this often enough WINGS you might even start to believe it. The fact is that the options price is so attractive that you would be crazy not to exercise them.

Yet if the aircraft wasn't performing as promised I don't think that SQ or QF would rush to place additional orders so soon. Like I said before actions speak louder then words.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 12):

The real proof is NEW orders to which there are NONE because the price is a lot higher than launch discounts and Airlines are at a disadvantage from SQ and QF.

You are correct that a new customer for the A380 program would be an even better vote of confidence. Hopefully December will bring us a surprise.

Regards,
Wings
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leelaw
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:04 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 9):
If people are only just 'beginning' to speak more openly, and the assembly lines are 'preternaturally calm,' the article (mainly sourced to Leahy) gives the impression that Airbus hasn't solved all its problems, even yet?

Along these lines the WSJ reported yesterday that: "...European plane-maker Airbus is likely to solve the production problems related to its A380 superjumbo jetliner in a matter of weeks or months, Airbus Chief Executive Louis Gallois said Monday..."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116583989005246412.html
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Bongodog1964
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:55 pm

Slightly off topic I know but isn't it ironic that every page of the article has a BA ad on it, when as we all know BA hasn't placed any orders for the A380?
 
NAV20
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
"...European plane-maker Airbus is likely to solve the production problems related to its A380 superjumbo jetliner in a matter of weeks or months, Airbus Chief Executive Louis Gallois said Monday..."

Huh! He's already HAD about five months. Note that he didn't say whether it was weeks OR months - and even then he only said it was 'likely.'  Smile

Gallois begins to appear distinctly 'limited' - he strikes me as being like the guy who was famously described (by President Truman, I think) as "A two-ulcer man in a five-ulcer job."

And he certainly doesn't exhibit the sort of oratorical powers which might galvanise and inspire the workers at Airbus. Where's the Churchillian touch - "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat"?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
OU812
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
Where's the Churchillian touch - "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat"?

Those that speak logic are assassinated by labor union hit man!


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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 11):
Aside from being late with the 380, for which Airbus has to pay compensation to customers, does the fact that Airbus kept the delays quiet for what amounted to almost a year (is that correct?) make Airbus guilty of fraud?

Perhaps, but it sure makes Noel Forgeard's stock sale smell bad. I'm sure the French government will be bringing charges soon - NOT!

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
Along these lines the WSJ reported yesterday that: "...European plane-maker Airbus is likely to solve the production problems related to its A380 superjumbo jetliner in a matter of weeks or months, Airbus Chief Executive Louis Gallois said Monday..."

Likely? Weeks or months? Gee, that's a very wishy-washy statement!
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sstsomeday
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
Along these lines the WSJ reported yesterday that: "...European plane-maker Airbus is likely to solve the production problems related to its A380 superjumbo jetliner in a matter of weeks or months, Airbus Chief Executive Louis Gallois said Monday..."

Is my memory faulty, because I recall Airbus had announced weeks ago that they had solved the wiring problems. And so we have been speculating in these threads, wondering why they don't revise the 380 delivery forecast to reflect this. But now they are saying they are likely to solve the wiring issues in weeks or months. I don't understand.

Meanwhile, I had asked in reply "11," "Aside from being late with the 380, for which Airbus has to pay compensation to customers, does the fact that Airbus kept the delays quiet for what amounted to almost a year (is that correct?) make Airbus guilty of fraud?" to which "Revelation" replied:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 20):
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 11):
Perhaps, but it sure makes Noel Forgeard's stock sale smell bad.

Yes, I had forgotten about that. So is the only potential legal liability is Forgeard's alleged insider trade? Isn't Airbus accountable to some governing body or vulnerable to lawsuits for misleading it's shareholders and customers (in order to avoid losing sales) by keeping mum for so long, much like Enron?

One might speculate that the airlines who are still on board with this A/C REALLY want it, and/or the price for launch customers is REALLY attractive, otherwise they could sue to break their contracts on this point.
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NAV20
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:21 pm

Now we know why Gallois chose his words carefully. He knows what's happening to the last CEO who made lots of confident statements about the A380's progress  Smile:-

"PARIS: Police searched the Paris headquarters of European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co. and one of its main shareholders Tuesday, judicial officials said, just hours before the group's flagship Airbus A380 was expected to get final approval for commercial service.

"Officials said the searches at EADS and Paris-based Lagardere SCA were part of an investigation into suspicions of insider trading involving EADS shares. Noel Forgeard, the former co-chief executive of Airbus parent EADS and dozens of his former colleagues are under investigation in relation to the share sales.

"The judicial officials asked not to be named, citing French rules on the confidentiality of investigations. Investigators from France's Financial Markets Authority also searched EADS and Airbus offices in June."


http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...ness/EU_FIN_France_Airbus_A380.php
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sstsomeday
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 22):
"Officials said the searches at EADS and Paris-based Lagardere SCA were part of an investigation into suspicions of insider trading involving EADS shares. Noel Forgeard, the former co-chief executive of Airbus parent EADS and dozens of his former colleagues are under investigation in relation to the share sales.

Thanks, Nav20. Interesting stuff.
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NAV20
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 21):
But now they are saying they are likely to solve the wiring issues in weeks or months. I don't understand.

As I've explained elsewhere, SSTsomeday, I for one don't think that the 'root cause' is the wiring problem; it's not having the money to fund full production of loss-making sales. Airbus has been telling half-truths for years, why should they suddenly start telling the 'whole truth' now?

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 21):
Isn't Airbus accountable to some governing body or vulnerable to lawsuits for misleading it's shareholders and customers

Certainly vulnerable to civil suits by shareholders, some of which are already under way. Possibly at risk of criminal charges for fraud as well.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 21):
and/or the price for launch customers is REALLY attractive, otherwise they could sue to break their contracts on this point.

Guess only, but the airlines concerned appear to be on a hiding to nothing. If they cancel they are stuck with having inadequate capacity, which will hit profits/growth for years to come, given the lead-time on getting ANY other aircraft to fill the gap. And any OTHER aeroplanes (like 748s), besides being years off delivery, would cost them maybe twice as much as the A380s are costing.

At present they are at least getting compensation for loss of profits, and can hope eventually to take delivery of their ordered A380s at knockdown prices. Always assuming that Airbus doesn't fold in the meantime. And even if Airbus DOES fold, the compensation won't be refundable.

[Edited 2006-12-12 15:43:02]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
sstsomeday
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 24):
As I've explained elsewhere, SSTsomeday, I for one don't think that the 'root cause' is the wiring problem; it's not having the money to fund full production of loss-making sales. Airbus has been telling half-truths for years, why should they suddenly start telling the 'whole truth' now?

That's an interesting and ominous theory. Airbus does not receive the balance until they deliver the metal, right? Based on your position, I suppose it's difficult to hasten the completion of these birds when they know the compensation does not cover their costs?

So their profitably on the 380, theoretically, will be far into the future as they pass their break-even point. I have seen you speculate about how far into the future that break-even point is, especially because of losses due to the delays, because of interest on loans etc, and how you do not believe that the break-even point will be reached.

It seems to me, though, that they would lose less money by delivering the current order book, plus any new orders they may acquire, as opposed to bailing on the project at this point. Are you suggesting that Airbus are unlikely to garner any new orders at closer to list prices?
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NAV20
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 25):
So their profitably on the 380, theoretically, will be far into the future as they pass their break-even point. I have seen you speculate about how far into the future that break-even point is, especially because of losses due to the delays, because of interest on loans etc, and how you do not believe that the break-even point will be reached.

Case of two different 'breakeven points,' SSTsomeday. The one we've all often speculated about is 'true' breakeven, recovering all costs including the $US13B. or so of development costs. Even Airbus says they'll have to sell 420 X A380s to do that, so that is likely to be decades into the future (if it ever happens).

But EADS' own recent forecasts say that they don't expect to break even on PRODUCTION until 2010 - and only then if they can complete and deliver about 90 X A380s by then. Fully explained on here, with a link to EADS' statement, Post 71:-

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/3137049/

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 25):
It seems to me, though, that they would lose less money by delivering the current order book, plus any new orders they may acquire, as opposed to bailing on the project at this point.

On EADS' own forecasts, they are going to LOSE money on at least the first half of the current order book - presumably through a combination of low launch prices, compensation, and Euro appreciation.

So, in my opinion only, the TRUE reason for the A380 delays is not the wiring problems - it's the fact that they haven't got enough cash flowing in from sales of other models to finance the huge production costs of all those A380s unless they spread it over several years. I believe that that is the true reason why they've currently got the begging-bowl out for an extra E5B. through capital raising, bond issues, or whatever.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 25):
Are you suggesting that Airbus are unlikely to garner any new orders at closer to list prices?

My opinion again - now that the 748 is established on the horizon I think they'll have trouble selling many more A380s, the 748 looks like carrying almost as many people just as far for a lot less fuel. And to any major airport worldwide, too.

But more important than that, further sales wouldn't help their cash flow problems anyway - on their own production forecasts, they'll be occupied until at least 2013 filling the orders they've already got. More A380 orders won't therefore help their cash flow until 2014 at the earliest.

[Edited 2006-12-12 16:40:04]
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BoomBoom
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 14):
Like I said before actions speak louder then words.

The actions that would speak the loudest would be for Airbus to release some specific performance numbers from the flight testing.

The fact that SQ and QF placed additional orders may just indicate that they are getting them for so little cost ($100 million) that it more than compensates for less than optimal performance.
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PlaneHunter
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):
The actions that would speak the loudest would be for Airbus to release some specific performance numbers from the flight testing.

I guess the same people who continuously complain about a lack of information would then be first ones to question any numbers.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):
The fact that SQ and QF placed additional orders may just indicate that they are getting them for so little cost ($100 million) that it more than compensates for less than optimal performance.

Considering that QF or SQ require optimal performance for certain routes I doubt they would order even more if the plane critically falls short of expectations.


PH
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Stitch
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 12):
Yet if the aircraft wasn't performing as promised I don't think that SQ or QF would rush to place additional orders so soon. Like I said before actions speak louder then words.

But is "performing as promised" good enough, now, if the 747-8I truly has the better numbers? I know we've all speculated around it a great deal and used various sources and comments to back the assertion that the A388 is better then the 748 and vice-versa, but could LH going big on the 748 and perhaps holding fast on the A388 mean that the latest performance numbers from both companies are now tracking towards the 748?

Now, even if the 748 is tracking better, that does not mean that SQ and QF must therefore order it. The A388 may still be the better overall choice, even if not the best specific one. But if the 748 starts to record orders and the A388's sales hold steady or come from existing customers...

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
I for one don't think that the 'root cause' is the wiring problem; it's not having the money to fund full production of loss-making sales...So, in my opinion only, the TRUE reason for the A380 delays is not the wiring problems - it's the fact that they haven't got enough cash flowing in from sales of other models to finance the huge production costs of all those A380s unless they spread it over several years. I believe that that is the true reason why they've currently got the begging-bowl out for an extra E5B. through capital raising, bond issues, or whatever.

Is Airbus so cash-short that they can't even afford to re-wire a second airplane? I believe MSN003 has been successfully re-wired and is now the official "template" to begin re-wiring of the remainder of the currently produced fleet. Yet SQ is slated to wait almost twelve months just to get their first re-wired bird. If this is indeed due to Airbus not being able to afford the labor to do it, how can they maintain current operations?
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 23):
So, in my opinion only, the TRUE reason for the A380 delays is not the wiring problems - it's the fact that they haven't got enough cash flowing in from sales of other models to finance the huge production costs of all those A380s unless they spread it over several years.

Is that based on the same source which suggested that the A320 "had virtually stopped selling" only a few months ago?  Yeah sure


PH
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jdevora
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 12):
I will believe that performance has met or exceeded expectation when Airbus state it and wouldn't they shout that from the tree tops because of all the bad press over the last 12 months. What you had said appears to be comments that have gone from whispers to 'folklore'

Looks like they said it today:

Airbus A380 receives joint EASA & FAA Type Certification

Quote:
"But more than anything, it provides clear evidence of the technical soundness of the A380, and confirms that the aircraft is meeting or exceeding the expectations in terms of performance, range, environmental friendliness, and cabin comfort. Both our customers and their passengers will love it."


[Edited 2006-12-12 19:52:27]
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
Both SQ and QF have placed additional orders



Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 24):
The fact that SQ and QF placed additional orders

Have they? SQ issued an LOI to exercise options, but have they firmed? QF made an announcement of firm orders, but Airbus has not confirmed it and they do not appear on their Orders & Deliveries sheets. So...have they???
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baron95
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:38 pm

"Airbus, marked with the first flight on 27th April 2005" from this link http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...6_A380_EASA_FAA_Ceritifcation.html

That is 19 and 1/2 months from first flight to type certificate. Isn't that excessive? That about double what Boeing is predicting for the 787.

I don't think the A380 faced any major set backs during certification, so why did it take so long?

Now we are looking for 13 months or so from TC to second delivery and likely EIS date. Also very excessive, but at least we know the "aledged" reason for that.

Also from the article... says Louis Gallois, Airbus President and CEO. "But more than anything, it provides clear evidence of the technical soundness of the A380, and confirms that the aircraft is meeting or exceeding the expectations in terms of performance, range, ...

That is silly, since the TC does not take into consideration range, cruise speed, fuel flow, and most other airplane performance parameters. Why would a CEO imply that the TC validates "unpublished" Airbus performance numbers?

Why not just publish the numbers?
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sstsomeday
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 30):
lso from the article... says Louis Gallois, Airbus President and CEO. "But more than anything, it provides clear evidence of the technical soundness of the A380, and confirms that the aircraft is meeting or exceeding the expectations in terms of performance, range, ...

That is silly, since the TC does not take into consideration range, cruise speed, fuel flow, and most other airplane performance parameters. Why would a CEO imply that the TC validates "unpublished" Airbus performance numbers?

I noticed that as well. The certification doesn't confirm any of those claims, I would imagine, only that the A/C is safe and is techincally sound. I thought that that was a very strange thing for Gallois to assert.
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jdevora
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RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 16):



Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 31):

I noticed that as well. The certification doesn't confirm any of those claims, I would imagine, only that the A/C is safe and is techincally sound. I thought that that was a very strange thing for Gallois to assert.

I watched the video highlights and what he says is that all the flight hours required for have the certificate allowed them to confirm the performance numbers, not the certification itself.
 
dvautier
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:28 am

RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:21 am

I don’t think “solving the wiring problem” makes any sense. It’s like saying we have solved the Iraq problem, or the world hunger problem or the AIDS problem. This isn’t a single problem but thousands and thousands of little problems. Gallois should say one of the following to be PC.

1. We have our arms around this issue.
2. We have fully addressed this issue and feel comfortable.
3. We have taken steps to remedy the wiring issue.
4. “We have seen the enemy and he is us”
5. No new taxes.  Big grin
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: IHT: Airbus Saga:How Hubris/haste Snarled The A380

Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 28):
Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 12):
I will believe that performance has met or exceeded expectation when Airbus state it and wouldn't they shout that from the tree tops because of all the bad press over the last 12 months. What you had said appears to be comments that have gone from whispers to 'folklore'

Looks like they said it today:

Airbus A380 receives joint EASA & FAA Type Certification

Quote:
"But more than anything, it provides clear evidence of the technical soundness of the A380, and confirms that the aircraft is meeting or exceeding the expectations in terms of performance, range, environmental friendliness, and cabin comfort. Both our customers and their passengers will love it."

Jvedora, they said the same thing about MD11 and that missed its numbers and effectively died. SQ ordered A340 and that was subseqently replaced by B777s. Remember the testing of 777-300ER when boeing officially announced actual figures and improvements on what was promised!! Surely Airbus if they had such information would make a HUGE PR song and dance about it.

I think you will find there is a reason that Airbus is not releasing any technical performance specifications as I suspect that any promises have been met more by reducing passenger numbers and cheap launch/option discounts and making increases to MTOW.

This would explain total lack new orders because at list price the A380 is not a financially viable proposition given all the twin engined alternatives 777/787/and A350 with their range.

The 747-800 has served its purpose before its even built and that is to put enormus pricing pressure on A380.

I'm with BoomBoom on this one and are still wondering WTF is going on!!!!!!

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 24):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 14):
Like I said before actions speak louder then words.

The actions that would speak the loudest would be for Airbus to release some specific performance numbers from the flight testing.

The fact that SQ and QF placed additional orders may just indicate that they are getting them for so little cost ($100 million) that it more than compensates for less than optimal performance.