Allright, the first thread has gone past the 200 post, so here we go with a second discussion.

Cheers

Swiss Aviation Thread One

I've heard a rumour that LX is one of the 36 parties hat are interested in OZ's 332s. More longhaul expansion likely?

Why not if Swiss feels there is demand for further expansion maybe in Africa or North America to operate profitably. As far as I know the planes are also identical regarding the engines as the ones in LX fleet they were also ordered together with SR and SN I think at the time when SR and OS still were partners.

On another note Edelweiss Air has their A330 in for maintanance and Business Class cabin refit until tomorow. Does anybody have any idea on the enahcnments made to their Long Haul Business Class product?

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 1): OZ's 332s

You surely mean OS's A332s... I think that LX is likely to face a considerably tougher time to get their hands on these frames than they did when trying to get a hold of the two older A343s. The second hand market for A330s is very buoyant at the moment and the OS frames might go for too high a price to be worth the investment.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3): You surely mean OS's A332s

Yes, thats right, typo, i apologise.

Unless OS will make a good package deal but I doubt it. Why bother if you can get a better price from someone else. Also, Swiss wants to grow step by step and adding 5 planes from now to 2008 is a good start but I gues futher expansion at least in the Long Haul segment will first happen when Swiss has positively deployed their 3 A340 to increase frequencies and introduced the new route or routes.

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 5): Also, Swiss wants to grow step by step and adding 5 planes from now to 2008 is a good start but I gues futher expansion at least in the Long Haul segment will first happen when Swiss has positively deployed their 3 A340 to increase frequencies and introduced the new route or routes.

You are absolutely right. These OS A332s will become available within the next couple of months, as OS has no more A332 flights in its schedule for the upcoming summer. I don't think LX could absorb so much additional longhaul capacity in such a short time. Any new station openings should have been announced by now, so additional capacity for next summer is likely to be used for reinforced frequencies to existing destinations only. I would nevertheless not rule out that LX would reopen IAD.

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 5): Also, Swiss wants to grow step by step and adding 5 planes from now to 2008 is a good start but I gues futher expansion at least in the Long Haul segment will first happen when Swiss has positively deployed their 3 A340 to increase frequencies and introduced the new route or routes.

That's what I think too. Most of the time, when carriers rushed to expand fast, that turned out to be more a problem than a success.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6): I would nevertheless not rule out that LX would reopen IAD.

I wouldn't bet anything on that. United flies ZRH-IAD daily, codesharing with LX. Are you sure IAD is a strong enought market to justify a second daily rotation?

Where i see potential is Africa. SR used to be a big player in the African market, however i'm not aware of the yields on these routes neither do i have any idea wether these routes were profitable for SR. A retry on PEK-PVG or either of them non-stop is also highly in the cards.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6): I don't think LX could absorb so much additional longhaul capacity in such a short time.

I agree.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 8): I wouldn't bet anything on that. United flies ZRH-IAD daily, codesharing with LX. Are you sure IAD is a strong enought market to justify a second daily rotation?

The current United-Swiss partnership is supported by just 2 daily interhub flights with UA flying IAD-ZRH and LX operating ZRH-ORD. Traditionally, the transatlantic partnership has been supported by at least 3 such flights - 2 daily ATL + daily CVG with DL, daily DFW, ORD and MIA with AA - so I am pretty sure that sooner or later additional capacity will be added to either IAD or ORD or both. The key word here is interhub operation.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9):

Fair enought. On a sidenote: UA's flight actually routes ORD-IAD-ZRH, but thats a minor detail and can't replace a third daily interhub flight.

Newest Swiss press release:

Quote: Airbus A320 “HB-IJB” in service for SWISS from today An Airbus A320 with the registration letters HB-IJB today became the 70th SWISS aircraft in commercial service when it took off for Rome’s Fiumicino Airport on time at 07:25 this morning. As announced back in September, this aircraft enables SWISS to take advantage of the growth in European air transport. It will be deployed on various existing routes within Europe. The HB-IJB is the 46th Airbus aircraft in the SWISS fleet. The A320 family now consists of seven A319, fifteen A320 and four A321 aircraft. Another two Airbus A321s will join the SWISS fleet in spring.

http://www.swiss.com/web/MACNS4/abou...ess-releases-06.htm?&newsid=101503

Cool guys we are already in part #2 

Agree there are many carriers interested in OS33...... but I do not think LX would be able to jump on these birds and get them going in a economical manner today.... no need we all saw what happen when some very "smart"    people went on a "GW" trip with SR & SN......

Cheers,

Latest LX figures for November 2006:

20% more passengers carried than in Nov. 2005
77% average load factor on the whole network (72% in November 2005)
Average Load factor on all intercontinental flights: 83%

Source: SF1 News.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 8): Where i see potential is Africa. SR used to be a big player in the African market, however i'm not aware of the yields on these routes neither do i have any idea wether these routes were profitable for SR.

You are right about the potential of Africa. However, let's not overly romaticize Swissair's African adventures. In the end, some of those routes were bleeding money, in particular the thrice weekly ZRH ABJ. Lufthansa also unsuccessfully tried to enter the ABJ market a couple of years ago, so I really don't think we'll see a return there.

ZRH LOS ACC, previously served 4 times weekly with A332, was given up in one of the successive rounds of network cuts. Lufthansa is serving this market daily and that seems to suffice for the time being, unless the group would like to serve these markets seperately to better compete with KLM and British Airways. Otherwise, in Nigeria, Kano is the only city not served by the LH/LX group.

Swissair used to make some decent money in both Libreville and Kinshasa, both served once weekly via Doula and Yaounde, repectively, yet again, I don't see Swiss returning there, for the cost related to restarting such an operation is huge and Air France has meanwhile established itself very well in the market. Any return to these markets would be with a rather minimal initial frequency anyway.

Dakar was given up because of low yields and the yield situation there, as well as in Bamako and Banjul, both of which were served as a tag on to Dakar, has not improved ever since. Other destinations in West Africa would be completely new for both Swiss and Lufthansa and I just don't know whether the airlines would want to take such a risk. As it goes, I believe that destinations like Monrovia (ROB) and Freetown (FNA) offer a decent potential, yet the setting up of such an operations is not easy and subject to very serious risks.

In East Africa, Harare is unlikely to return to the LH/LX network given the current political impasse there. HRE was last served by Swissair via JNB and LH via WDH, and neither operation was a commercial success. Dares Salaam seems to be doing well for Swiss in combination with Nairobi, and we might see the airline eventually operating daily into NBO at which time the flight might be extended into destinations like Kilimanjaro (JRO) or Entebbe/Kampala (EBB) a couple of times a week.

In the free (tabloid) newspaper "Heute" I read today that Swiss had 22.4 % more passengers in November 2006 (838000) than in November 2005. This is absolutely amazing. I can only give you the link of the Newspaper. If you want to read it you must download the PDF Newspaper (click on the newspaper icon). It is on page 7, in German.
http://www.heute-online.ch/

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):

Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it!

Quoting ZRH (Reply 15):

I beat you to it 

[Edited 2006-12-12 18:56:33]

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 13): Latest LX figures for November 2006: 20% more passengers carried than in Nov. 2005 77% average load factor on the whole network (72% in November 2005) Average Load factor on all intercontinental flights: 83%

These numbers are great no question, but we have to consider the revenue/profit. I hope these numbers will even more improve once LH/LX routing has been optimized.

Cheers,

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 16): I beat you to it

No doubt you did  

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 13): 20% more passengers carried than in Nov. 2005

20%    My gosh, that's really good!

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 10): Fair enought. On a sidenote: UA's flight actually routes ORD-IAD-ZRH, but thats a minor detail and can't replace a third daily interhub flight.

The routing will be changed to a ZRH-IAD-SFO operation soon.

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 20): The routing will be changed to a ZRH-IAD-SFO operation soon.

  That's most interesting.

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 20): The routing will be changed to a ZRH-IAD-SFO operation soon.

Great.
Wasn't this flight some years back routed already that way?

It's also great to see the two partner cities connected together, even with the stop-over. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%C3%BCrich#Partnerst.C3.A4dte
IIRC Mr. Ledergerber (Major of Zurich) also once wanted such a flight.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 13): 20% more passengers carried than in Nov. 2005

It's not just 20%, but 22,4%

Swiss: le nombre de passagers a augmenté de 22,4% en novembre
Swiss steigert Auslastung im November weiter

hey guys, great to have this thread...

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 1): 've heard a rumour that LX is one of the 36 parties hat are interested in OZ's 332s. More longhaul expansion likely?

I really feel happy for LX and all those employees which had to blood big time the last couple of years... but i really hope that LX is not doing the same mistakes as SR did, i.e. expanding too much too fast and trying to play in the same league as AF or BA... luckily big brother LH is watching...

getting those OS A332 would probably too much to digest, they even have a pilot shortage with the already announced 2 A322 and 3 A343...

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 23): It's not just 20%, but 22,4%

Yes, ZRHnerd beat me, but I hat the right numbers in my post...    

Quoting Matterhorn (Reply 24): I really feel happy for LX and all those employees which had to blood big time the last couple of years... but i really hope that LX is not doing the same mistakes as SR did, i.e. expanding too much too fast and trying to play in the same league as AF or BA... luckily big brother LH is watching...

Don't worry. I think, not only big brother is watching but the decisions will be made in Frankfurt.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 25): Yes, ZRHnerd beat me, but I hat the right numbers in my post...

As usual I scrolled down too fast, and didn't saw your post.  

Quoting ZRH (Reply 25): Yes, ZRHnerd beat me, but I hat the right numbers in my post

I had the numbers Swiss Television had, blame them  

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 27): I had the numbers Swiss Television had, blame them

Don't worry. That's typical SF. And they even want more money. In my opinion the SRG is worst company in Switzerland. I really hate them.
(sorry of topic, but I couldn't resist)

Quoting ZRH (Reply 28): Don't worry. That's typical SF. And they even want more money. In my opinion the SRG is worst company in Switzerland. I really hate them.

Yes, they are bad, but they still offer some good programs, like Champions League, good movies (mit Zweikanalton   ) football world cups and eurocups, Ice hockey play-offs and world cups etc. Their Sports offers are just great.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 29): Yes, they are bad, but they still offer some good programs, like Champions League, good movies (mit Zweikanalton ) football world cups and eurocups, Ice hockey play-offs and world cups etc. Their Sports offers are just great.

What they need is a version of "Hockey Night in Canada" every Saturday night..... and does anyone have some LX profit numbers to post????

Cheers,

Quoting Swissy (Reply 30): and does anyone have some LX profit numbers to post????

I've only found them for the first nine month of the year. So they are not new anymore.

Swiss continues to climb

Cheers.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 28): In my opinion the SRG is worst company in Switzerland. I really hate them.

It's maybe the case for S F and DRS but SSR SRG Idee Suisse is simply excellent in the TSR and RSR. TSR is wonderful and RSR is (in my humble opinion) the best French speaking radio !  
Hope some Romands will be agree with me...

Quoting Matterhorn (Reply 24): but i really hope that LX is not doing the same mistakes as SR did, i.e. expanding too much too fast and trying to play in the same league as AF or BA

I believe it's simply impossible to see a kind of SAirGroup II based on SWISS Intl in the future. Simply incomparable !

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 31): I've only found them for the first nine month of the year. So they are not new anymore.

Thank you my friend, have seen some newer numbers can't find them any more (need more beer )

If you look at both side (pax/load factor versus revenue/proift) Swiss is doing so far a very fine job,I know some members here think otherwise...    

Cheers,

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 32): I believe it's simply impossible to see a kind of SAirGroup II based on SWISS Intl in the future. Simply incomparable !

Of course not! They are now owned by LH, they are member of Star and not trying to build an impossible alliance with half-dead lame ducks in a mad Hunter Strategy.

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 32): I believe it's simply impossible to see a kind of SAirGroup II based on SWISS Intl in the future. Simply incomparable !

Agree 100%, I am still busy cleaning my a.. with some old SR stocks....  ,
who knows maybe on a later time LH might be willing selling us LX back.....

Relax it is just a extreme thought.....  

Cheers,

Quoting Swissy (Reply 35): with some old SR stocks....

What do you mean by old SR stocks please ? (I'm really interesting in all old SR goods / items !  )

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 1): I've heard a rumour that LX is one of the 36 parties hat are interested in OZ's 332s. More longhaul expansion likely?

TAP is getting OS 332, I think....

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 9): Traditionally, the transatlantic partnership has been supported by at least 3 such flights - 2 daily ATL + daily CVG with DL, daily DFW, ORD and MIA with AA - so I am pretty sure that sooner or later additional capacity will be added to either IAD or ORD or both.

That's the problem in the Swissair era, although it's a hub to hub service, given current status of SWISS' destinations compared to Swissair (particularly Africa and Middle East), I doubted it can support at least 2 ZRH-IAD or 2 ZRH-ORD daily flight.

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 20): The routing will be changed to a ZRH-IAD-SFO operation soon.

Domestic tag-on flight is always an interesting thing.

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 34): Of course not! They are now owned by LH, they are member of Star and not trying to build an impossible alliance with half-dead lame ducks in a mad Hunter Strategy.

I mean that was the mean Swissair mistake in his very last years. No risk SWISS Intl will do the same  

Not so long ago Swissair bought airlines, now SWISS Intl belong to an other airline ! 

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 37): That's the problem in the Swissair era, although it's a hub to hub service, given current status of SWISS' destinations compared to Swissair (particularly Africa and Middle East), I doubted it can support at least 2 ZRH-IAD or 2 ZRH-ORD daily flight.

I hear you, but given the current growth of the airline, I believe that just 2 daily transatlantic interhub flights with medium sized capacity is on the meager side and I am pretty sure that capacity will be added in the not too distant future. Even OS will have a larger capacity in the transatlantic interhub sectors next summer with their daily B772ER on VIE IAD and 6 weekly B763ER on VIE ORD versus a daily B763ER + daily A332 for LX/UA on the same routes.

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 38): Not so long ago Swissair bought airlines, now SWISS Intl belong to an other airline

Good example of how things can change.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 35): I am still busy cleaning my a.. with some old SR stocks

hahaha  

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 11): Airbus A320 “HB-IJB” in service for SWISS from today

Welcome back!! This is Airbus A320-214 # 545, Delivered new to Swissair on 29.08.1995 as HB-IJB. Was stored in Lemwerder (D) after Swissair collapse and went to THY as TC-JLA in July '04. Now flying the Swiss skies under it's previous Reg again.

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 19): 20% more passengers carried than in Nov. 2005

And that beat LH, AF, BA etc. They even beat Air Berlin!!  

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 21): The routing will be changed to a ZRH-IAD-SFO operation soon.

Great, will there be a codeshare number (sorry if this has been mentioned above already...)

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 36): with some old SR stocks....

Mine are still at the bank... Nothing I can do, except paying Depot fees. I cannot have them printed out, and cannot sell them.... talk about a lame duck...

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 40): Not so long ago Swissair bought airlines, now SWISS Intl belong to an other airline. Good example of how things can change.

I'd say it's a very baaaad example... 

BR, Pat

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 41): Now flying the Swiss skies under it's previous Reg again.

Excellent, yes welcome back baby   

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 41): Minernare still at the bank... Nothing I can do, except paying Depot fees. Irncannot have them printed out, and cannot sell them.... talk about arnlame duck...

Ah ok, I've understood the term "stocks" right now 

But how long these stocks will continue to live without statute ?

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 42): But how long these stocks will continue to live without statute ?

until the company SAirGRoup is officially liquidated...
they still exist, and have an office in Balsberg, at least they still had a while ago. They have a Swissair/+/Group Logo at the entrance...
Another option ist to 'trash' them from the depot, but this will cost me money (more than a couple of years depot)... I would have loved to get a paper with my stocks, but that's no longer possible, I was too late.
However I still have SWISS stock on paper, so Lufthansa is not the only owner, I am too   (not officially, as minority owners have been "squeezed out" - meaning that their shares are worthless once 99% or so of the shares belong to one owner...)
Oh well, at least my LH shares are performing well  

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 43): However I still have SWISS stock on paper, sornLufthansa is not the only owner, I am too (not officially, as minorityrnowners have been "squeezed out" - meaning that their shares arernworthless once 99% or so of the shares belong to one owner...)

So if I understand well, LH won't own 100% of LX until the last minor owner sell his last share ?

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 43): until the company SAirGRoup is officially liquidated...

So you are officially still a SR creditor, aren't you ?  

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 44): So if I understand well, LH won't own 100% of LX until the last minor owner sell his last share ?

Nope, the other way round. Although I still own shares of LX, i am no longer an owner, as LH has enough shares to 'squeeze out' all other owners. So LH (or, more correctly, a company called AirTrust) is 'full' owner of LX

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 44): So you are officially still a SR creditor, aren't you ?

No again  , creditors are the guys to whom SR owns money, eg Swissport, Sabena, the Pilots etc...
I am just an owner of Swissair - a company that is not worth anything anymore (economically speaking of course)...
(Now the question is, am I entitled to www.swissair.com?   )

Changing the topic, Have any Swiss A319 or A321 already received the new interior? I think that HB-IOL A321 is currently in the process of receiving it but not sure.

Hey guys. I just came back from viewing the new SWISS offices near ZRH airport. The coolest thing is, when you're standing on the balcony on the third floor, your realise that the building is in a straight line to rwy 14. So cool. You can just stand there watching the planes coming straight at you on apporach!

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 36): What do you mean by old SR stocks please ? (I'm really interesting in all old SR goods / items ! )

I have all family owned stocks in paper form.... also some EA, which a good friend of mine in YYZ gave to me....

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 45): No again , creditors are the guys to whom SR owns money, eg Swissport, Sabena, the Pilots etc... I am just an owner of Swissair - a company that is not worth anything anymore (economically speaking of course)... (Now the question is, am I entitled to www.swissair.com? )

I am in the same boat and yes you are entitled to "swissair.com"..  

Considering my family lost jobs and bling bling ($$$$) I am very happy to see
LX is doing better.....

Cheers,

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 45):

Thanks a lot, I'm a bit less stupid now !