WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:03 am

The intention of this thread is to unite all members, in particular Portuguese members, do discuss what is happening with aviation in Portugal. Buy placing recent events in this thread we can all be kept up to date more easily with what is happening in regards to aviation in Portugal.

All members are welcome to contribute.  Smile

I will start off by giving a brief look into the largest airline in Portugal, TAP Portugal. As soon as I have the time I will post the remaining fleets of the other various Portuguese airlines, such as Portugalia, Euro Atlantic, SATA, HiFly, White ect....

TAP PORTUGAL

A319-100
X 17

A320-200
X 15

A321-200
X 3

A310-300
X 6

A330-200
X 3

A340-300
X 4

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:41 am

PORTUGALIA AIRLINES (PGA)

EMB 145
x 8

Fokker 100
x 7

Saab 2000
x 2

Beech 1900D
x 1

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:50 am

EURO ATLANTIC AIRWAYS

Boeing 757-200
X 1

Boeing 767-300ER
X 2

Lockheed L1011-500
X 1

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:58 am

HI FLY

Airbus A330-300
X 1

Airbus A340-300
X 1 (Due to arrive in May 2007)

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Nimish
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:01 am

Great start to a new thread!

Seems like a rather limited long haul fleet - is that sufficient to meet the needs of Portugal? Does TP benefit from any connecting passengers?
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
N774UA
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:55 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:20 am

There is a Portugalia F100 at AMS. CS-TPB. It is in a paintshop. Will it get a new livery, since TAP is the new owmer of the company, or will the colours remain the same?

Regards
N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
ZBA320
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:03 am

Isn't Hi Fly formerly Air Luxor? Didn't they have a quite a few A320s in that fleet apart from the lone A330 / 340?  Smile
An Engineer made a bet that a 747 Gear wouldn't retract in a Hangar. He lost the bet.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:20 am

Good thread WINGS  wave 

Here's my contribution:
White will add an ex.EK A310 to its fleet soon

White A310

Quoting Nimish (Reply 4):
Seems like a rather limited long haul fleet - is that sufficient to meet the needs of Portugal? Does TP benefit from any connecting passengers?

SATA and White both have A310s too.

Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 6):
Isn't Hi Fly formerly Air Luxor? Didn't they have a quite a few A320s in that fleet apart from the lone A330 / 340?

Yes they had a few ex.Ansett A320s.

Cheers,
Devan
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 4):

Seems like a rather limited long haul fleet - is that sufficient to meet the needs of Portugal? Does TP benefit from any connecting passengers?

Well Tap Portugal is a member of Star Alliance, while Portugalia are a current associated member of Sky Team. Now that Tap has acquired Portugalia I would expect Portugalia to withdraw from Skyteam.

In regards to the fleet Tap has 13 long haul aircraft, with 5 new A330 on order from Airbus which should start to arrive in October 2007. Tap Portugal is also a launch customer for the A350 with 10 + ( 5 options).

It is also my understanding that Tap is looking to acquire 3x A332´s (PW) from Austrian Airlines, This way Tap will further expand it's longhaul fleet and destinations.

Quoting N774UA (Reply 5):
There is a Portugalia F100 at AMS. CS-TPB. It is in a paint shop. Will it get a new livery, since TAP is the new owner of the company, or will the colours remain the same?

It is my understanding that both Airlines will maintain their respective identities.

Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 6):
Isn't Hi Fly formerly Air Luxor? Didn't they have a quite a few A320s in that fleet apart from the lone A330 / 340?

Well Hifly/Air Luxor is a rather hard case to keep track. Hifly currently only have 1 A333 which is in servie for the Australian Air Force as troop transport to Iraq and Afghanistan. In mid May Hifly is expected to take delivery of an A340-300, which is coming from Virgin Atlantic.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:44 am

WHITE AIRLINES

Airbus A310-300
X 1 ( + 1 A313 coming from Emirates)

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 7):
Good thread WINGS wave

Here's my contribution:
White will add an ex.EK A310 to its fleet soon

White A310

Thanks for the kind words. I have also read the same information.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 7):

SATA and White both have A310s too.

While Euro Atlantic has 1x B757, 2x B767ER, and 1x L1011

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 7):
Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 6):
Isn't Hi Fly formerly Air Luxor? Didn't they have a quite a few A320s in that fleet apart from the lone A330 / 340?

Yes they had a few ex.Ansett A320s.

From what I have read those two A320's will be joining Tap's fleet soon.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
PORTUGALIA AIRLINES (PGA)

Does anyone know where PGA fly their B1900 and Saab 2000's to?

BTW, the TAAG 777 just passed by 30 mins ago, first time I saw it!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:00 am

SATA International

A320-200

x3

A310-300

x3

Quoting WINGS (Reply 9):
From what I have read those two A320's will be joining Tap's fleet soon.

Im surprised, those are some of the oldest A320s IIRC.

Cheers,
Devan  wave 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 11):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 9):
From what I have read those two A320's will be joining Tap's fleet soon.

I'm surprised, those are some of the oldest A320s IIRC.

Well I was also surprised to read that. Hopefully Tap will look into renewing it's short/medium fleet in the not too distant future.

Hopefully replacing some of the older A320's with updated A320's or possibly even being a launch customer for a future A320E.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
a389
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:41 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:19 am

Interesting thread Wings! thumbsup 

For some reason... maybe due to work Smile i missed the news on TAP taking over Portugalia... although i was aware of the potential interest.

Are there any news on TP privatization?

LIS is unfortunately a constraint for TP ... very poor terminal building and airfield/ airspace constraints will at the end of the day be a constraint for at least the next 10 to 15 years!!  Sad... In my opinion LIS should remain as the main Lisbon airport and develop other (say Alverca, Montijo whatever) into a secondary gate ... and those airports are quite close to the city center (much closer then say Girona or Reus to Barcelona)

Any news on SATA Açores fleet plans?

Regards,
A389
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting A389 (Reply 13):

For some reason... maybe due to work Smile i missed the news on TAP taking over Portugalia... although i was aware of the potential interest.

Tap Portugal has acquired 99,8% or Portugalia from (GES).

You can find some more info in the links below.

Sorry folks only in Portuguese:
http://diarioeconomico.sapo.pt/edici...empresas/pt/desarrollo/706416.html
http://diarioeconomico.sapo.pt/edici...empresas/pt/desarrollo/704477.html

Quoting A389 (Reply 13):
Are there any news on TP privatization?

From what I have read, various parties are interested in acquiring a stake in Tap Portugal. In regards to a time frame, I would expect that Tap will start negotiations as early as next year.

Quoting A389 (Reply 13):
LIS is unfortunately a constraint for TP ... very poor terminal building and airfield/ airspace constraints will at the end of the day be a constraint for at least the next 10 to 15 years!! Sad... In my opinion LIS should remain as the main Lisbon airport and develop other (say Alverca, Montijo whatever) into a secondary gate ... and those airports are quite close to the city center (much closer then say Girona or Reus to Barcelona)

With the purchase of Portugalia, I would imagine that Tap will look to concentrate more activity from Porto (Oporto). This way Tap will make use of the modern facilities that Porto airport provides. I also agree with you opinion that it would be in Lisbon's best interest to open up another airfield to serve Low Cost Carriers (LCC).

Quoting A389 (Reply 13):
Any news on SATA Açores fleet plans?

From my understanding SATA International has the following fleet.

Airbus A320-200
X 3

Airbus A310-300
X 3

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ZBA320
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):

Well Hifly/Air Luxor is a rather hard case to keep track. Hifly currently only have 1 A333 which is in servie for the Australian Air Force as troop transport to Iraq and Afghanistan. In mid May Hifly is expected to take delivery of an A340-300, which is coming from Virgin Atlantic.

Ah right. Thanks for the explanation Wings.  Smile

Great thread!  bigthumbsup 
An Engineer made a bet that a 747 Gear wouldn't retract in a Hangar. He lost the bet.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:01 am

NEWS UPDATE:

According to Mr Fernando Pinto, Tap is negotiating acquiring additional aircraft from both a European airline (Austrian Airlines?) and a North American Airline (Air Canada?) I would imagine that it would be for the A330/340. His main aim is for Tap to continue with expansion into North America, Brazil and Africa.

Sorry folks only in Portuguese:

Fernando Pinto disse que o crescimento da companhia far-se-á através dos Estados Unidos e, sobretudo, do Brasil e África, embora muito dependente de conseguir aviões de longo cruso disponíveis para o fazer.

Explicou que a TAP está em negociações com uma companhia europeia e outra da América do Norte para a aquisição de aviões para reforçar a frota de longo curso, uma vez que os A330 que chegarem em 2007 são para substituir os actuais A310.


Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
and a North American Airline (Air Canada?) I would imagine that it would be for the A330/340.

Interesting! But am I wrong, or does AC only have A340-500s? I know Air Transat has A330 but they're very unlikely to get rid of them, so AC seems likely.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:46 pm

Well hopefully more of our Portuguese members will give a helping hand with whats happening with aviation in Portugal. Come on folks lets get this thread moving. Lets all participate so that we can all be keep up to date with what's happening.  Smile

Does anyone know what happening to the proposed start up of Lusitania Airways?

I noticed that their web site still has no information. Anyone have any update into proposed fleet and routes?

http://www.lusitaniaairways.com/

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:53 pm

Quoting ,reply=17:

Interesting! But am I wrong, or does AC only have A340-500s? I know Air Transat has A330 but they're very unlikely to get rid of them, so AC seems likely.

Hi BuyantUkhaa,

Well according to www.airfleets.net Air Canada have the following Airbus widebody's in it's fleet.

A333 x 8
A343 x 9
A345 x 2


In regards to Air Transat they have the following:

A313 x 11
A332 x 3
A333 x1


I would imagine that Tap would be more inclined to be discussing acquiring from Austrian and Air Canada, as they are both Star Alliance members.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:21 pm

Thanks, so it seems that at AC they have more choice than I thought. Well, let's see.

I just keep wishing that TAP will start flying to MOW, but well...
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:54 pm

Hi Wings...

Good thread, and greetings from the Algarve.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 18):
Does anyone know what happening to the proposed start up of Lusitania Airways?

According to Transportes XXI they are due to get going in March 2007 using a 763.

It would be nice to see some expansion of TP direct services down here at FAO, but it seems unlikely. With TP's only direct flight (excluding LIS) out of FAO now changed to LGW (at 06.25) from LHR, TP has effectively handed over London to BA and the LCC's.

The leisure market out of FAO continues to grow, as FR's FAO GRO and FAO MAD services get under way, despite them now refering to us as Faro/Huelva on their website! (Huelva is 70mi / 115km from Faro!)

Unfortunately, I heard today that the long running rumour of (BA franchise) GB Airways closing its overseas offices is correct. After some 35 years of presence in FAO, GT will hand over to Groundforce at a date yet to be decided, and close their desk. Staff will have have the choice of joining Groundforce or leaving and being compensated by GT.

And that's about it from down here....
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 4):
Seems like a rather limited long haul fleet - is that sufficient to meet the needs of Portugal? Does TP benefit from any connecting passengers?

You need to put it in context. TP is still realing from many years of bad management. They now appear to be on the right path. LIS is operating at capacity in terms of the ability to handle large aircraft. They are currently increasing the space for remote bays but there really isn't much room to park aircraft. In addition, there are lots of options in terms of charter operationg to server the long haul market. Yes, TP as a fairly limited long-haul fleet, but they are slowly increasing it, as they can and when they can.

Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 6):
Isn't Hi Fly formerly Air Luxor? Didn't they have a quite a few A320s in that fleet apart from the lone A330 / 340?

Hi Fly is a "spinoff" of Air Luxor, a result of Air Luxor going under.
Hi Fly is what the owners could salvage from the debacle that was Air Luxor.
They just offer limited charters, primarily for troop transport.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
His main aim is for Tap to continue with expansion into North America, Brazil and Africa.

I've been wondering for how much longer they can continue to ignore BOS and YYZ. I would be surprised to see them increase service to NYC either. They once operated twice daily from NYC. YYZ-LIS-JNB and NYC-LIS-DKR could be very lucrative routes for TP.

I'm a little disapointed there there's still no talk of service to China or Japan. I think Brazil-China or Brazil-Japan with a stop in LIS/OPO could also be tremendously lucrative for TP. AC's A345's would fit like a glove on a route like GRU-LIS-NRT or GRU-LIS-PVG.
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:24 am

I really hope to see TP back in Canada soon...i know its a long shot, but its been my dream to work for them! Or even just check in there flights
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 21):
Hi Wings...

Good thread, and greetings from the Algarve.

Hi BHXFAOTIPYYC

Greeting's from Aveiro. It's good to have a member from the south. That way you can keep us informed with what's happening in that region.  Smile

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 21):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 18):
Does anyone know what happening to the proposed start up of Lusitania Airways?

According to Transportes XXI they are due to get going in March 2007 using a 763.

That's great news. That will make Lusitania the second B763 operator after Euro Atlantic. Would you happen to know if it's the ER model?

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 21):
It would be nice to see some expansion of TP direct services down here at FAO, but it seems unlikely. With TP's only direct flight (excluding LIS) out of FAO now changed to LGW (at 06.25) from LHR, TP has effectively handed over London to BA and the LCC's.

Like I mentioned previously, I would lean to believe that Tap will concentrate more of it's resources for international expansion from Porto. Porto is a perfect gateway for many Spaniards that live in the Galiza region.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):

I've been wondering for how much longer they can continue to ignore BOS and YYZ. I would be surprised to see them increase service to NYC either. They once operated twice daily from NYC. YYZ-LIS-JNB and NYC-LIS-DKR could be very lucrative routes for TP.

Hopefully it will not be too long. Both markets have great potential for Tap.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 22):

I'm a little disapointed there there's still no talk of service to China or Japan. I think Brazil-China or Brazil-Japan with a stop in LIS/OPO could also be tremendously lucrative for TP. AC's A345's would fit like a glove on a route like GRU-LIS-NRT or GRU-LIS-PVG.

Well I have thought about this scenario. I have to admit that I actually like it.  Smile

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
a389
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:41 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:44 am

Hi all... and greetings from the rainy Dubai  Sad

Although not particularly active (where are all Portuguese a.neters?) this thread is quite interesting so far!

Quoting WINGS (Reply 24):
Tap will concentrate more of it's resources for international expansion from Porto. Porto is a perfect gateway for many Spaniards that live in the Galiza region.

I agree that OPO is quite a good gateway for TP (infrastructure wise) but is TP increasing of shifting movement from LIS to OPO? are other alliance members doing it? it would seem to me that although Porto seems to have some potential to growth it's still a small catchment area to fill many long haul lights. On the other hand... LIS is with a 'chronic serious disease' but they are treating it with aspirins.... and it's not a couple of stands that will solve the problem...or a terminal refurbishment.... it's not all about quantity but also about quality... there's no airbridge served widebody stand just as an example!...

MAD is just next door and they take air transport seriously thus the massive investments!.. also BCN!!.. well IB is just as poor service as all other European carriers... specially when compared with the likes from Middle east and Asia...

I also agree that china/japon markets could potentially be interesting for TP...

What's this Lusitania Airways business plan? i read they will start with 1 B763... charter flights right?

Wings, as to SATA i was specifically referring to the ageing SATA air açores fleet... any news when they will replace the ATP's?

Regards,
A389
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting A389 (Reply 25):
there's no airbridge served widebody stand just as an example!...

Actually last time I was there, there was a SATA A310 parked at the gate right next to ours. So the airbridges can accomodate some widebody aircraft. Probably nothing bigger than an A310 though. One must remember that the existing infrastructure was built when the A310 was TP's long-haul workhorse.
If only they could just get started with the new airport. It can't come fast enough.

Usiung OPO to feed passengers from other European cities, going to Brazil is a good idea and will alleviate the pressure at LIS a little bit but a new airport is urgently needed.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2235
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 10):
Does anyone know where PGA fly their B1900 and Saab 2000's to?

VLC used to receive the B1900, upgraded a couple of years ago to the Saab2000.

The other Saab 2000 goes IIRC to a French destination (TLS or NCE, I can't remember now).

I don't know where are the B1900 flying to currently.
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 26):
If only they could just get started with the new airport. It can't come fast enough.

If only it wasn't at ota but rather montija or azambuja...
I hate the thought of not beeing right in the middle of lisbon anymore after landing...

That's one of the beauties in LIS, when landing over the tejo you see the whole city, short taxi time, short passport control (except at late evening, or when long hauls from africa/brasil just came in). Ok, admittedly a VERY LONG wait for baggage, but thats why I travel with hand luggage  Smile
And then you're in the middle of town...

Wasn't there a plan to prolong the metro to Portela once?

BTW, nice thread!!
1 abraço
Pat
swissair/+/ we care
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 28):
If only it wasn't at ota but rather montija or azambuja...
I hate the thought of not beeing right in the middle of lisbon anymore after landing...

Wasn't there a plan to prolong the metro to Portela once?

The current location is awesome for us enthusiasts but it's not self-sustainable and there's no more room for growth. Montijo and Azambuja aren't exactly in the center of Lisbon either. It's a 20-30 minute drive from Ota to Lisbon, and if you're anywhere outside of Lisbon it could take you even less time. Now try to drive from the curernt airport to Sintra (for example), and it will likely take you longer.

I believe there is Metro at the airport. I vaguely remember seeing it but I could be wrong. But other than that there's really no shortage of bus service at the airport and the taxis are plenty and inexpensive.
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 29):
I believe there is Metro at the airport.

No, no metro yet. The next station would be Campo Grande and go there by bus (I also walked it once, around 30min) However you are absolutely right about buses, lots of buses - just never the one you need of course  Wink

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 29):
Now try to drive from the curernt airport to Sintra (for example), and it will likely take you longer

DEpends, I live in Cascais, which is similiar from this point of view to Sintra. Takes around 1h during daytime i.e. traffic time, but you can do it in 20-25 mins at non-peak times.
To go to OTA there will be less traffic (since you will be able to drive around Lisbon on CREL) but the distance is farther, therefore increasing minimum times.
Now for the regular tourist - and there are plenty in LIS  Smile - the current airport is just ideally located.
Of course I absolutely agree with you regarding future possibilities of expanding at portela - they are almost nil... montijo on the other hand is near Lisbon - cross the VdG Bridge and you're there... but not (yet) within the city itself, and has waterfront on three sides.
Also, the terrain is larger than Portela.
I believe the main problems with Montijo are that this is some kind of ecological Park Area iirc.
swissair/+/ we care
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 30):
Now for the regular tourist - and there are plenty in LIS - the current airport is just ideally located.

The average tourist is the least of the problems. They don't really care where the airport is. A 30-60 minute bus ride to/from the airport makes no difference over the course of 1 or 2 weeks. As an example, France is the most visited country in Europe and CDG isn't exactly in downtown Paris.

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 30):
I believe the main problems with Montijo are that this is some kind of ecological Park Area iirc.

And there's the growth problem again. The Montijo site is still too close to residential areas which is Portela's big problem. In another 20 years Montijo will be as crowded as Portela is today. Even if you have the space to build, it means nothing if the local residents won't allow it. See MUC as an example.
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:58 am

Point taken, but they have watefront with the tejo estuary on three sides and they could probably buy the land now already?
Also, there's always landfill  Smile
But then Greenpeace and the like would really get mad  Smile

BTW; Montijo is still in military use, this might be a big problem as well...
I just checked it on Google Earth Ota is realllllly far away from lisbon...
It's almost 50km from rossio...
This is almost enough far away for Ryanair to come  Wink
swissair/+/ we care
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:37 pm

Wings, amazing thread , as usual !

My little contribution is that there are plans to increase flights to Brazil very soon with more services to GIG and GRU (rumors about 2x daily to both markets) and the new service to BSB, but they will need at least 2 more aircrafts for that.

Their loads in Brazil keep in a very high level.

They will face some problems during this Brazilian summer because they need to stop some A343 for maintenance. Due to this, GRU-LIS will run 3x A343 and 5x A332 and GIG-LIS 4x A343 and 3x A332. Also SSA will get an A332 this summer instead of the regular A343.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:42 pm

I will check in too. I'm not Portuguese, but Mr. Harlot is Portuguese-Canadian - and WINGS, his family is from just south of Aveiro. Mae and Pae Harlot will be on their way to Porto from YYZ tomorrow.  Smile

I absolutely loved Portugal on my first trip there earlier this year and will be pleased to learn more about Portuguese aviation from this thread.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:36 pm

Could it be possible that new low cost start up Viva Macau might fly Macau to Lisbon with one of it's 762ER's? At the moment, the airline said that it only flies to Indonesia and the Maldives but that next year it wants to expand long haul. I take it Macau is one of the only ex-colonies in Asia with no flight back to the Mother Land?

Also, what would be the feasabiliy of someone like TG or SQ starting up flights to Lisbon? After all, LIS is now a Star hub.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 32):
Point taken, but they have watefront with the tejo estuary on three sides and they could probably buy the land now already?

It doesn't matter if they buy the land now. The aircraft still have to take off and land over heavily populated areas, and the residents won't allow it.

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 32):
I just checked it on Google Earth Ota is realllllly far away from lisbon...
It's almost 50km from rossio...

That's nothing. My commute to work is more than 50Km each way every day  Smile
There's a 3 lane highway linking Ota to Lisbon. It's a 30 minute drive at most. Ota will also be in the high speed rail line linking Lisbon to Porto, and East to Spain. That will make it a 20 minute train ride into Lisbon or roughly 1.5 hours to as far north as Porto. The catchement area for Ota is also a lot bigger than Montijo. Within a 100Km radius you have cities like Santarem, Entroncament, Rio Maior, Leiria. Even Coimbra is just about an hour's drive. In about 20 years all these cities will be considered outside suburbs of Lisbon and the airport will no longer be "reallllly far away"  Smile
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 35):
Macau is one of the only ex-colonies in Asia with no flight back to the Mother Land?

Isn't it rather the other way round? It's about the only ex-colony in asia that once had/might have a direct connection to LIS?
Ok, it's a bit unaccurate, but here a map of the late 'portuguese empire':
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Portuguese_empire.png

While Africa and Brasil are pretty well covered with TP or other Carriers destinations, asia is yet a blank spot on their map, since they dropped macao - which has been for a long time now.
BTW, does Air Macao still (partly) belong to TP?

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 36):
will be considered outside suburbs of Lisbon and the airport will no longer be "reallllly far away"

That sounds scary...
Somehow I don't want lisbon to be from coimbra to Palmela and Sintra to santarem... But you're probably right, and the Airport might actually be a catalyst for this!

BR P
swissair/+/ we care
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 37):
Isn't it rather the other way round? It's about the only ex-colony in asia that once had/might have a direct connection to LIS?

No.

HKG-LHR/LGW
SIN-LHR
CGK-AMS
BOM-LHR
Also, there are AF flights to Vietnam (French Indo-China).

Makes you think.

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 37):
While Africa and Brasil are pretty well covered with TP or other Carriers destinations, asia is yet a blank spot on their map, since they dropped macao - which has been for a long time now.

Do you know when they dropped Macau?
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:48 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 38):
No.

OK I get it know, i thought you were talking about portuguese ex-colonies with flights back to PT, but what you ment was all asian ex-colonies back to Europe...

I agree with you now...  Wink

IIRC Macao was only served for a very short period of time. They opened the route, when Portugal opened the Airport in Macao, but closed it shortly after (or was it even before?) the handover to china.
Aircraft was A340. There were some occasional flights to Macao thereafter iirc.

BR, Pat
swissair/+/ we care
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 37):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 36):
will be considered outside suburbs of Lisbon and the airport will no longer be "reallllly far away"

That sounds scary...
Somehow I don't want lisbon to be from coimbra to Palmela and Sintra to santarem... But you're probably right, and the Airport might actually be a catalyst for this!

Yeah, I exagerated it a bit  Smile But i think it's fair to assume that anything as far as Vila France and Mafra will soon all be part of Greater Lisbon. As far as I'm concerned, Sintra and Cascais are already considered a suburb of Lisbon and have been for a very long time.
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:37 am

Well I would like to thank all that have participated in this thread. Hopefully all will continue to contribute in the future.

Quoting A389 (Reply 25):
Hi all... and greetings from the rainy Dubai Sad

Although not particularly active (where are all Portuguese a.neters?) this thread is quite interesting so far!

Greeting's A389, It's nice to have a Portuguese member from that region of the world.

Quoting A389 (Reply 25):
What's this Lusitania Airways business plan? i read they will start with 1 B763... charter flights right?

You are correct. Lusitania will primarily be a charter company. Hopefully they will opt for regular service in the future.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 26):

Usiung OPO to feed passengers from other European cities, going to Brazil is a good idea and will alleviate the pressure at LIS a little bit but a new airport is urgently needed.

Correct Airbazar. Oporto will serve Tap in the short to medium term in expanding it's services to both North and South America.

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 28):
Wasn't there a plan to prolong the metro to Portela once?

From what I have read recently, the metro will reach Portela in 2010.

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 30):

No, no metro yet. The next station would be Campo Grande and go there by bus (I also walked it once, around 30min) However you are absolutely right about buses, lots of buses - just never the one you need of course

Well we just have to be patient for another 3 years  Smile

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 33):
Wings, amazing thread , as usual !

My little contribution is that there are plans to increase flights to Brazil very soon with more services to GIG and GRU (rumors about 2x daily to both markets) and the new service to BSB, but they will need at least 2 more aircrafts for that.

Hi LipeGIG, I'm glad that you have jumped onboard this thread. Your contribution is very much appreciated.

Would this mean that Tap will surpass 50 flight per week to Brazil?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 33):
They will face some problems during this Brazilian summer because they need to stop some A343 for maintenance. Due to this, GRU-LIS will run 3x A343 and 5x A332 and GIG-LIS 4x A343 and 3x A332. Also SSA will get an A332 this summer instead of the regular A343.

Tap is currently negotiating with a European and North American airline (Austrian, Air Canada?) for the acquisition of more long haul aircraft. Lets hope that they are successful  Smile

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 34):
I will check in too. I'm not Portuguese, but Mr. Harlot is Portuguese-Canadian - and WINGS, his family is from just south of Aveiro. Mae and Pae Harlot will be on their way to Porto from YYZ tomorrow.

Hi ScarletHarlot, Would you happen to know where exactly?

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 34):
absolutely loved Portugal on my first trip there earlier this year and will be pleased to learn more about Portuguese aviation from this thread.

I'm glad to read that you enjoyed your stay. What did you enjoy most about Portugal?

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 38):

Do you know when they dropped Macau?

If my memory serves me well, I think that it must have been in 1996.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 41):
Would you happen to know where exactly?

I do....Gafanha do Areão.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 41):
What did you enjoy most about Portugal?

It was my first trip to Europe so the age of the cities and buildings was very different. I loved Evora and the walled city. I've never seen anything like the Roman temple there. I loved learning about where Mr. Harlot's family is from. The food, of course - I ate pasteis de bacalhau nearly every day.  Smile I enjoyed seeing Mr. Harlot get his Portuguese language skills back - he doesn't have much of a chance to practice it out here. I loved the culture - we were there just before World Cup and the excitement was amazing! We visited with Mr. Harlot's grandparents and other relatives - including dinner with family friends in Aveiro, where I was introduced to vinho verde.  Smile

Mr. Harlot was offered some family land near his grandfather's home and I hope one day we will build a little house there. Now if only I could find Portuguese language classes here in Seattle that aren't Brazilian!
But that was when I ruled the world
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 41):
If my memory serves me well, I think that it must have been in 1996

No chance of a re start?
 
kiramakora
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:17 am

I am not Portuguese by any measure; but good to see a Portuguese Aviation Thread. It is one of my favourite countries in Europe and I wish the thread much success.

PS: I get to fly TP's 310 in a week. YAY.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6798
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 43):
If my memory serves me well, I think that it must have been in 1996

No chance of a re start?

To Macau? Not a chance. Even when Macau was a Portuguese territory there were very few links between the two. If TP would ever take expansion into Asia seriously, China (PEK or PVG) and Japan would have to be of much higher priority simply because of all the traffic that TP has to Brazil. There's little to no demand between Portugal and either China or Japan, but Brazil and China/Japan is a different story. Unfortunately I'm afraid that this is just wishful thinking on my part. I really don't see TP flying to Asia any time soon.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 26):
Actually last time I was there, there was a SATA A310 parked at the gate right next to ours. So the airbridges can accomodate some widebody aircraft.

Problem is not width, it's length. That gate must have been gate 7, the only one that has widebodies, the biggest being the LH A300. Here the aircraft stands alongside the terminal rather than pointing its nose at it. The other jetways don't allow for bigger aircraft than they do because the aircraft's tail would be sticking out onto the taxiway paralel to rwy 17-35.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 41):
From what I have read recently, the metro will reach Portela in 2010.

That's right:



http://www.metrolisboa.pt/Default.aspx?tabid=507 in Portuguese only, I think.

Quoting SwissA330 (Reply 30):
No, no metro yet. The next station would be Campo Grande

And that's why I fail to understand why they didn't extend just extend the metro from the current maintenance yard. As you can see on the image, it is right next to the runway. Now they have opted for this strange question-mark shape...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...07362,0.021501&t=h&om=1&iwloc=addr

Yard is on the far left, gate 7 on the right.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:32 am

Ola de YYZ!!!

Wings great thread once again! I bring this up a lot in many forums, and quite often get lambasted cuz of it, but its wishful thinking i guess...but when oh when will we see TP back in YYZ??? I mean all signs point to it now, and I understand that the demand isnt there as route between Canada and Portugal is what you call VFR traffic...however, why wouldnt a codeshare work with AC and routing to, lets say JNB??? or CMN?? or MAD?? etc etc etc...I find it hard to believe that a 310, 3x a week into YYZ would be a failure. I have heard strange rumours that TP still owes the GTAA, or whoever was running the show at the time lots of cash in landing fees, and this may be a reason why they are not returning...anyhow, maybe run into you in FAO sometime, my hometown.....
Chao e Boa Sorte!
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:51 pm

Hi !!!

Is it true that TP has leased the 4 Ex-OS A332s ???

Thanks,


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: The Portuguese Aviation Thread.

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:01 pm

No.
Actually all the info is already posted above... :

Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):
In regards to the fleet Tap has 13 long haul aircraft, with 5 new A330 on order from Airbus which should start to arrive in October 2007.



Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):
It is also my understanding that Tap is looking to acquire 3x A332´s (PW) from Austrian Airlines



Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
ap is negotiating acquiring additional aircraft from both a European airline (Austrian Airlines?) and a North American Airline (Air Canada?) I would imagine that it would be for the A330/340

I.E. TP currently has 3 A330 (ex SR), 5 on Order @ Airbus and is interested in furter A330 from AC/OS.
So, no leases from OS as of now.

BR
swissair/+/ we care

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], cougar15, daninovandri, DavecFlyer, Google Adsense [Bot], heathrow, kaitak, Lothar99, LY777, rutankrd, SingaporeBoy, SXI899, teahan, UAinAUS, UltimoTiger777, Whoopeecock, wjcandee and 202 guests