nzblue
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Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:06 am

According to frontierairlines.com, Frontier will begin new non-stop service between Denver and Vancouver on May 5, 2007.

A press release should be out shortly.
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MSYtristar
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:08 am

This is excellent news. DEN-YVR will probably be a gold mine for them. Hopefully we'll see mainline A319 service.
 
nzblue
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
Hopefully we'll see mainline A319 service.

It looks like it will be 318/319 mainline service, as the flight numbers for the new route are in the mainline range:

631 DEN-YVR 1000-1200
632 YVR-DEN 1255-1650
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 1):
DEN-YVR will probably be a gold mine for them

In the summer, yes...the rest of the year will likely be weak.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
In the summer, yes...the rest of the year will likely be weak.

Even during the winter months, DL's SLC-YVR service runs two thirds to three quarters full at least so it seams.
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deltadawg
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:37 am

This would also mean a codeshare "FL/F9" ATL-YVR service with one stop I suppose? If year round and marketed correctly could put a crimp in DL's direct and ATL/SLC/YVR service or at least help bring down prices for consumers.
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nzblue
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:11 am

The press release is now out:

Excerpt:

"DENVER, Dec. 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Frontier Airlines (NASDAQ: FRNT) today announced it will launch daily non-stop service between its Denver International Airport (DEN) hub and Vancouver International Airport (YVR) beginning May 5, 2007. Passengers aboard the flight between Denver and Vancouver will enjoy the comfort and convenience of Frontier's new Airbus A319 aircraft, with 33 inches of legroom as well as 24 channels of DIRECTV® service and a choice of three pay-per-view movies in every seatback.

"Vancouver and Denver are both vibrant cities with stunning mountain views, thriving business communities and plenty of activities for business and leisure travelers," said John Happ, senior vice president of marketing and planning for Frontier. "Vancouver is the largest port for Alaskan cruises with over one million passengers per year and over 300 sailings, so we have created a summer schedule for our Denver and U.S. connecting passengers that takes advantage of the tremendous cruise market there. In October, we will change our schedule to provide ideal connections for our Vancouver passengers who want to travel to the stunning beaches of Mexico in the winter. It is truly a win-win proposition no matter which country you are traveling from or to.""
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
This would also mean a codeshare "FL/F9" ATL-YVR service with one stop I suppose? If year round and marketed correctly could put a crimp in DL's direct and ATL/SLC/YVR service

This could be part of the equation, given how FL will chomp at the bit to compete with DL. DL has a direct ATL-YVR flight 5x daily though as I recall.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
or at least help bring down prices for consumers.

I hope this is the case since during the "tourist" months fares from SLC-YVR typically run $600.00 (USD)+, but then fall off by about 30% during the slower period (November-April).
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kingcavalier
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:24 am

The 2010 Winter Olympics and Paralympic will be held in Vancouver and nearby Whistler.
http://www.vancouver2010.com/en

Over a million people a year pass through Vancouver each year enroute to a cruise ship.

This is good news for the folks who live in Vancouver who will be able to connect to all of Frontier's Mexico markets.

This was a logical next Canadian destination for Frontier.
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Salomon
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:07 am

Great news! On a side note, how are they doing with the YYC route? I know they were not doing very well at the beginning.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting Salomon (Reply 9):
Great news! On a side note, how are they doing with the YYC route?

The last time Frontier discussed YYC, they said it would be going mainline at some point.

But - they don't have a lot of mainline aircraft to spare and the new regional provider is not yet decided.

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Kohflot
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:21 am

So where next? YEG, YWG, YYZ, or YUL? How bout YMM???

It'll also be interesting to see if they're brazen enough to try FAI.
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FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:32 am

Quote:
In October, we will change our schedule to provide ideal connections for our Vancouver passengers who want to travel to the stunning beaches of Mexico in the winter.

Sounds like a recognition of traffic, follow it north when appropriate then south.
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:40 am

For the sake of thoroughness F9 may want to advertise the new passport requirement for entrering Canada effective Jan 2007 on their website http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
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vega
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
This could be part of the equation, given how FL will chomp at the bit to compete with DL. DL has a direct ATL-YVR flight 5x daily though as I recall.

DL has 1X Daily Non-Stop ATL-YVR in Summer Only and I do not believe this flight even operates daily.
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 11):
So where next? YEG, YWG, YYZ, or YUL? How bout YMM???

My vote is YOW.

We know they've had at least some talks.

 Smile

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Edmonchuck
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
In the summer, yes...the rest of the year will likely be weak.

I'd have to disagree. YVR can offer excellent winter vacations and gets you out of that Denver "drier than a popcorn fart" winter air that I hated.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 16):
and gets you out of that Denver "drier than a popcorn fart" winter air that I hated.

Funny. That's funny. Mind if I use that line? Not that you'll ever know if I do.  Smile

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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 16):
YVR can offer excellent winter vacations and gets you out of that Denver "drier than a popcorn fart" winter air that I hated.

This is true, but so is the fact that passenger numbers to YVR and ANC drop through the floor once the season is over.
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jamincan
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
My vote is YOW.

We know they've had at least some talks.

They've had talks? I think they'd certainly do well on that route. Besides the traffic on YOW-DEN, they'd likely draw a lot of traffic beyond DEN. Now the question is, if FL were to start that route, how would UA respond?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 19):
They've had talks?

As reported in the press. When Frontier started, or maybe when they announced, YYC, the airport director (?) at YOW said he was "talking to" Frontier.

He did not expect an immediate response, or immediate service, but said he felt they had a good shot at it "eventually".

I've no idea how extensive or productive the talks were, and Frontier sometimes has a long-ish time frame on these things. They talked about Canada for about four years before they started YYC.

Drives me nuts!  Smile

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Jayce
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
This is true, but so is the fact that passenger numbers to YVR and ANC drop through the floor once the season is over.

I wouldn't necessarily say that they drop through the floor, though the passenger numbers aren't as high in the winter as they are in the summer. Keep in mind YVR is a gateway to quite a few ski resorts as well as a connecting point for North America-Asia which is a pretty busy market year round.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 21):
Keep in mind YVR is a gateway to quite a few ski resorts as well as a connecting point for North America-Asia which is a pretty busy market year round.

....neither of which draws any significant traffic. You're connecting ski resorts to other major ski resorts (what else is there besides Blackcomb/Whistler?); the number of people that leave Colorado to go elsewhere to ski are few, and the numbers connecting to Asia through Canada are few as well.
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 21):
I wouldn't necessarily say that they drop through the floor, though the passenger numbers aren't as high in the winter as they are in the summer. Keep in mind YVR is a gateway to quite a few ski resorts as well as a connecting point for North America-Asia which is a pretty busy market year round.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
....neither of which draws any significant traffic. You're connecting ski resorts to other major ski resorts (what else is there besides Blackcomb/Whistler?); the number of people that leave Colorado to go elsewhere to ski are few, and the numbers connecting to Asia through Canada are few as well.

As I noted in reply 12 above I think that Frontier is aware of the winter traffic change. Their press release says that the schedule will change in October to accomodate Canadians connecting to southern warm weather resorts.

So the question to watch will be to see if they can make in-roads into capturing the southbound traffic in the winter away from the existing competition.
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QB737
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:08 pm

Yes! Yes! Yes!  bigthumbsup   bouncy 

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
In the summer, yes...the rest of the year will likely be weak.

I work for a ski tour operator, we will make sure to fill those babies!
Ben YVR
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 23):
the schedule will change in October to accommodate Canadians connecting to southern warm weather resorts.

So the question to watch will be to see if they can make in-roads into capturing the southbound traffic in the winter away from the existing competition.

I wonder how well they will do in being an alternative to the charters offered by Signature and SunQuest Vacations on Skyservice or AirTransit? It makes sense to offer connecting destinations from DEN to popular Mexican resort areas like PVR, SJD, MZT and CUN, but going through customs twice? First at DEN and then at YVR or YYC? I thought one of the advantages of the charters was not having to deal with US Customs as well as Canadian Customs.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 25):
but going through customs twice? First at DEN and then at YVR or YYC?

I would guess - only a guess - that Frontier probably has some evidence about connecting traffic from YYC.

How does it work for Delta at SLC?

But I am puzzled - why would transit passengers go through Customs? Through security, yes, TSA, and maybe immigration. But do they have to go through Customs as well, now?

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YYCowboy
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 12):
Sounds like a recognition of traffic, follow it north when appropriate then south

This is the only way Frontier MIGHT survive.

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 16):
Denver "drier than a popcorn fart" winter air that I hated.

And Edmonton being humid and warm?
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DYK
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
In the summer, yes...the rest of the year will likely be weak.

I would think Frontier may use Vancouver as a connection point to Asian carriers?
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
You're connecting ski resorts to other major ski resorts (what else is there besides Blackcomb/Whistler?

OK so Whistler is the biggest, next up Big White (Kelowna, BC) Silver Star (Vernon, BC) Apex Resort (Penticton, BC) Sun Peaks (Kamloops, BC) as well as MANY other smaller ones. Though most people will not leave Colorado for a ski holiday, there are possibilities for many connections as many people come up to BC to ski. Horizon are now taking Q400's up to YLW out of SEA for the demand, AC are going to start flying A319's in although right now we have 7 daily from YVR mostly in CRJ's with the odd CRA coming in. This demand is for Big White and Silver Star. Hardly something to ignore.
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
My vote is YOW.

I only disagree with you in that YOW doesn't offer a lot of two-way traffic. And noting the seasonal two-way traffic of both YVR and YYC, I have to think they'd try to stick with that strategy for now. That makes me think either YEG or YUL are next. YEG might be intruiging because of the possibility of including service to DEN *and* another favoured west coast destination.....?
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Boeing744
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:40 pm

Great to hear about this new service! It'll be nice to see some more A318s there other than the occasional MX one.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 29):
OK so Whistler is the biggest, next up Big White (Kelowna, BC) Silver Star (Vernon, BC) Apex Resort (Penticton, BC) Sun Peaks (Kamloops, BC) as well as MANY other smaller ones.
Not to mention Grouse and Cypress which are right by Vancouver. Also Mt. Washington on Vancouver Island.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 29):
Horizon are now taking Q400's up to YLW out of SEA for the demand, AC are going to start flying A319's in although right now we have 7 daily from YVR mostly in CRJ's with the odd CRA coming in.
Off topic, but it would be cool if YLW could see a new American carrier soon (not F9 obviously). I think the demand in the winter is definitely there. Maybe something like US from LAS or PHX?

[Edited 2006-12-13 08:42:23]

[Edited 2006-12-13 08:43:28]
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 31):
Not to mention Grouse and Cypress which are right by Vancouver. Also Mt. Washington on Vancouver Island.

Grouse, Cypress and Mt. Seymour i would not believe actually attract anyone to come to YVR, instead it is something someone might do while in YVR all are relatively small. Mt. Washington i have never been to and can not comment on it.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 31):
Off topic, but it would be cool if YLW could see a new American carrier soon (not F9 obviously). I think the demand in the winter is definitely there. Maybe something like US from LAS or PHX?

I think Horizon will be the only airline for a little bit. They serve 4 daily I believe out of SEA and offer a decent amount of connection's out of SEA on Alaska. I can not see AA come up here, UA could code share with AC through YVR, YYC, YEG or YYZ, I cant see DL doing it, I guess the only company that I could see flying out of here realistically to the US would be WS, they already have tons of flights out of YLW so they could fly down somewhere warm, for the snowbirds. And to be fair, there could be a chance of Alaska flying a flight instead of Horizon, who knows. For what it is worth though we used to get NW 757s coming in all the time, they get there winglets done at Kelowna Flight Craft.
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Bicoastal
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:40 pm

United already flies the route year round so I don't know why Frontier entering the market SEASONALLY is such a big deal.
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MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 33):
United already flies the route year round so I don't know why Frontier entering the market SEASONALLY is such a big deal.

The service is year-round. During the winter, the schedule will be flipped so that it is aimed at Vancouver-Sun Destination traffic.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:22 pm

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 30):
I have to think they'd try to stick with that strategy for now. That makes me think either YEG or YUL are next.

That may be so - YEG anyway - although I wouldn't rule out DEN-YQR.

My original preference would have been for DEN-YUL, but AC started that.

So I prefer DEN-YOW, for several reasons - no competition being one of them. I would hope that it might be somewhat similar to DEN-GDL - which no one else flies - as opposed to the more obvious DEN-MEX.

There is also the possibility that they'll fly to YVR from somewhere else. That's the fun of it now - DEN isn't necesarily the beginning and end of everything.

 Smile

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JumboBumbo
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 29):
Though most people will not leave Colorado for a ski holiday, there are possibilities for many connections as many people come up to BC to ski.

I don't know that that's true... most people I know in CO would travel for skiing in a heartbeat... and Whistler was always a top destination. Avid skiiers periodically like a change of scenery, terrain and snow condition. Whistler Valley gets about 14 feet of snow per year, with the surrounding mountains getting about 30 feet.... so it's not hard to see why. I think that affordable flights to YVR by F9 could potentially extend the luxury of skiing holidays to a new segment of the market.
 
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 30):
I only disagree with you in that YOW doesn't offer a lot of two-way traffic.

Why doesn't it?

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 30):
That makes me think either YEG or YUL are next.

Won't be YUL now that AC is back on YUL-DEN. Given how YEG is booming at the moment, it would make sense.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 35):
So I prefer DEN-YOW, for several reasons - no competition being one of them.

Exactly and as long as UA doesn't offer a YOW-SFO nonstop and as long as YOW remains by far the largest city in Canada without a nonstop to LAS, there is huge connecting traffic potential to SFO & area, LAX & area, PHX, LAS, PDX, SLC, SEA, etc. Without a nonstop to the west coast, YOW needs a connecting airport that is west of ORD and isn't prone to poor weather or bad congestion, especially during the winter. Also YOW-DEN's O&D is decent and would no doubt be greatly stimulated with a nonstop. Hopefully YOW and F9 will continue to talk.

I also think YQR and YXE are good future CR7 markets or even Q400 markets.
 
Edmonchuck
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 32):
I think Horizon will be the only airline for a little bit. They serve 4 daily I believe out of SEA and offer a decent amount of connection's out of SEA on Alaska. I can not see AA come up here, UA could code share with AC through YVR, YYC, YEG or YYZ, I cant see DL doing it, I guess the only company that I could see flying out of here realistically to the US would be WS, they already have tons of flights out of YLW so they could fly down somewhere warm, for the snowbirds. And to be fair, there could be a chance of Alaska flying a flight instead of Horizon, who knows.

I'd have to agree here. LW has more of a chance to get an Alaska mainline upgrade from F9 before any other US carrier. Too bad that YLW and YYF couldn't get along more to completely serve the Okanogan, but then it seems YYF could make a mess of a drinking contest at a brewery convention.

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 30):
That makes me think either YEG or YUL are next. YEG might be intruiging because of the possibility of including service to DEN *and* another favoured west coast destination.....?

In talking to the airport authority at YEG, they are talking to Frontier. I agree, Montreal or Edmonton are probably before Ottawa as I don't see the two way traffic either. Probably YUL...although I was surprised at how much business there is between DEN and YEG. I moved from Edmonton to Denver only to find myself traveling back to Edmonton on businesses more often than I thought!

Quoting JumboBumbo (Reply 36):
I don't know that that's true... most people I know in CO would travel for skiing in a heartbeat... and Whistler was always a top destination. Avid skiiers periodically like a change of scenery, terrain and snow condition

EXACTLY!!! Skiers travel all over the world to experience different locales, and I know some who make return trips to various destinations yearly. YVR offers more than Whistler though, as the city itself is rather attractive. Plus, the experince of kayaking in the morning and boarding in the afternoon is amazing.

The nightlife in Whistler is amazing too. It is a great "spring break" style place, although I am way too old for that now.
 
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting JumboBumbo (Reply 36):
I think that affordable flights to YVR by F9 could potentially extend the luxury of skiing holidays to a new segment of the market.

That segment doesn't worry about affordable fares. The segment that does worry about price is not flying out of state to go skiing--they're going to Loveland on I70.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Edmonchuck
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:19 am

Well, they do have a price point, but yes, flying to go skiing is a heck of a lot more demand elastic than most market demographics.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
How does it work for Delta at SLC?

For SLC, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection has a clearance section at the bottom floor of the "International Terminal" (what is really Terminal 3 or the BIG CRJ base for SkyWest). This U.S. Department of Homeland Security Agency handles both immigration and customs issues at all border crossings and airports with international service.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 32):
I think Horizon will be the only airline for a little bit. They serve 4 daily I believe out of SEA and offer a decent amount of connection's out of SEA on Alaska.

I think that part of the B.C. interior will remain AS territory from SEA for the foreseeable future as well.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 32):
I cant see DL doing it

For B.C. the only other airport DL (via DCI/SkyWest) serves is YYJ seasonal during the summer, but rumor has it when it returns in the spring it will go year around 1x per day to SLC. DL will start 2x to YWG next month on SkyWest CRJs, and the only other two markets in western Canada that I see them potentially offering service to SLC on via SkyWest would be YQL and YQR.

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 38):
The nightlife in Whistler is amazing too. It is a great "spring break" style place, although I am way too old for that now.

How does Whistler compare to Vail, Aspen or Park City? Those places can get pretty wild at this time of year!
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 41):
How does Whistler compare to Vail, Aspen or Park City? Those places can get pretty wild at this time of year!

Whistler/Blackcomb is my favorite ski destination in the world hands down. Vail/Aspen/Park City are definitely in the same league as Whistler/Blackcomb however, although the latter has a larger vertical drop. Lots of Spring Break ski traffic to all three areas.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Edmonchuck
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RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 41):
How does Whistler compare to Vail, Aspen or Park City? Those places can get pretty wild at this time of year

My friend...one must experience Whistler to understand...but if you want my opinion I find Whistler better.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 43):
My friend...one must experience Whistler to understand

For me it only took one drive through Jasper National Park, to Banff. This piece of Canadian real estate is North America's Switzerland
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
threepoint
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 38):
Too bad that YLW and YYF couldn't get along more to completely serve the Okanogan, but then it seems YYF could make a mess of a drinking contest at a brewery convention.

Ignoring for the moment the mangled metaphor, what do you mean regarding YLW & YYF cooperation? I'm not sure how the two airports could complement each other, to be honest.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
Edmonchuck
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:58 am

RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:42 am

Mangled metaphor aside ( I was trying to be a bit cleaner), in the Bill Bennett days there was an intention of getting Penticton and Kelowna together to attract more industry lakewide. The 2 cities were the same size then and both weren't in a position to take advantage of any Highway 1 traffic that Kamloops was to get. At that time, both fields were the same size and had a similar frequency on PWA. There even was a YLW-YYF run. However, Penticton always wanted to be a sleepy retirement town, and Bill (being a Kelowna native) really pumped up Kelowna. You see the result today.

Co-operation could have 2 great cities in the Okanogan, the potential to get 97 finished long before it will be, and even that rumored train between the 2 on the KVR line. 2 airports would give the summer and winter resorts in the Central and South Okanogan much more capacity without building a mega airport (which YLW wanted to do but the ALR quashed that dream). I always thought YYF was easier to expand that runway anyway.
 
Edmonchuck
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:58 am

RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 44):
For me it only took one drive through Jasper National Park, to Banff. This piece of Canadian real estate is North America's Switzerland

..yes, but a bit different experience than Whistler. You go here to take your kids and take pictures. You go to Whistler to take pictures and hopefully they don't result in kids.... Wink
 
threepoint
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 46):
Co-operation could have 2 great cities in the Okanogan, the potential to get 97 finished long before it will be, and even that rumored train between the 2 on the KVR line. 2 airports would give the summer and winter resorts in the Central and South Okanogan much more capacity without building a mega airport (which YLW wanted to do but the ALR quashed that dream). I always thought YYF was easier to expand that runway anyway.

Interesting analysis, but there are a few local hiccups. Hwy 97 is (finally) getting pieces of the upgrade it deserves, but it remains a painful process. Running as it does hemmed in by the lake and terrain and bisecting communities, it will be no easy nor inexpensive task. People are averse to public transport if they have the option of taking their cars where and when they want. Short of imposing hefty tolls on the new bridge, no slowmoving train will be appealing or economically feasible.
So that leaves us with that 'other' mode of transport: air. The flying demand for expanded service to and from YYF simply isn't there, even in the very busy summer. The best we will see is a continuation or very limited expansion of the existing BC/Alberta routes. The larger, more hyped ski resorts are better served by YLW and most of the leisure traffic to Penticton drives as few airlines take travel trailers, ski boats, jetskis, snowmobiles, etc in their holds.
Despite the constraints of the ALR, YLW has plenty of room to grow. They own dozens of acres as yet undeveloped and have plans to extend the runway another 2000' or so (thus eventually attracting longhaul service or so they hope). I firmly believe the Okanagan (note Cdn spelling) valley population can serve one large airport only and commercial air service will remain a peripheral activity at best in YYF. I'm not sure your definition of 'mega airport' but if you think along the lines of YVR - there is no way there has ever been justification for anything even half that size in YLW. The population in the valley will keep growing, but at a less explosive rate than we've seen since 1990, and note that it is far more affected by the boomer demographic which may alter airport & community planner's decisions in the couple decades.
Finally, due to the fact YYF sits on leased land on an Indian Reserve managed by a particularly confrontational band, don't expect any meaningful or easy airport expansion there. The landlords here differ radically from their fellow bands in and around Kelowna who are practically falling over themselves in their quest to attract condos, resorts, big-box developments, etc. Fortunately, the current 6000' runway is more than capable of handling any unexpected air traffic that may blunder by.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Frontier Announces New YVR Service

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:56 am

This is great news for Frontier. Expansion into the Canada market is a nice move on their part. YVR has a good traffic base, and the cruise season may assist Frontier into making YVR a year round service. Frontier can also snatch up some UA traffic, which in turn can be a bonus.

Also, minimal competition against WN, and increased goodies on the route map.

WTG Frontier!
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