alexchao
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AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:14 pm

AA is upgrading its Boeing 767-200 aircraft with new Business Class and First Class seats, a brighter interior, and AVOD devices in First and Business Class.

The aircraft will be primarily flown between JFK-LAX/SFO. Enhancements are expected as soon as Summer 2007.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061213/daw009.html?.v=86

[Edited 2006-12-13 06:17:32]
 
jetBlue
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:25 pm

This is great news! I'm happy to see American stepping up to the plate in their premium cabins. This will definitely give United's P.S. service a run for its money.

I love AA.  Smile

jetBlue
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
 
mirrodie
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:33 pm

That is a sizeable investment and I'd utilize these new cabins if that is the case.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
flydreamliner
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 1):
This is great news! I'm happy to see American stepping up to the plate in their premium cabins. This will definitely give United's P.S. service a run for its money.

United is up and down all over them in the marketing war, and they have set the bar darn high with PS.... I just don't see AA beating the whole PS experience.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
GOTbound
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:47 pm

A little bit of topic, any updated info on the 767-300 new C-class progress?

EK
 
aq737
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:47 pm

Hopefully AA will take advantage of the wide, twin-aisle cabin and do something special (unlikely considering their 763 new business). Any information on if the business class seats will be the ones they developed for the 763 and 772? Might they do a modified version of flagship suite for F?

Although the planes are older, not much older than PS 757s, plus there's more room for different configurations. If AA does it right, they'll come back on top. I know many people fly AA because of the widebodies.

Aq737
 
sylvcath
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
United is up and down all over them in the marketing war, and they have set the bar darn high with PS.... I just don't see AA beating the whole PS experience.

Never underestimate the resolve of an airline with lots to gain and lots to lose if it doesn't work out as planned  Smile

It may not beat UA's product per se, but it'll challenge it, and that's all it really needs to do. AA's "loyal elite" now have good reason to stay loyal. Now, if only I could afford to fly First/Business... if only.
"sylvcath" = Sylvan Catharsis
 
miami1
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:20 pm

Why did AA remove C class from their LA to MIA sectors.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:27 pm

Nothing in coach? No changes? At least maybe the restoration of free inflight warm meals on this oh so important route? Does AA not realize how many FF are in coach with major high profile firms that are just shy of a few miles to upgrade to Biz and F class?
 
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American 767
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:35 pm

That's nice to hear. It means that the 767-200's may have the new 777 style interiors like the newest 300's have. They'll look a lot younger than they are.
If they plan on investing in upgrading the interiors, it means that the 767-200's will remain in the fleet for years to come. It'll be a real pleasure to fly on those. I flew on one about a month ago from JFK to LAX, I was in C Class, it had the new seats but still the old walls surrounding the windows. The F Class cabin still has the old brown seats.
Delta and United already phased them out but American is keeping them a lot longer.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
pilotdude09
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:53 pm

Now all AA needs to do is focus on its service aspect and upgrade that. Then baggage handling.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
HB-IWC
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 7):
Why did AA remove C class from their LA to MIA sectors.

AA is still offering a 3-class product on the daily B772 roundtrip on the MIA-LAX-MIA route. All other flights, operated with B763, B752 and B738 equipment have a 2-class cabin layout.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 7):
Why did AA remove C class from their LA to MIA sectors.

They removed 3-class service from the majority of their planes, which mean that the Miami, Boston, and other trans-con routes lost 3-class service as well. However, AA still offers their 3-class Flagship service on the morning MIA-LAX departure and the afternoon LAX-MIA departure. Only one of the seven daily flights has 3-class service, but it is one of only three domestic AA routes with three-class service.
a.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:56 pm

AA is doing the right thing to match UA's PS service. Having an "International Flight" from coast to coast is the right way to go. I just wish AA would replace the 762 which are its original 767's.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:35 pm

Excellent news and long overdue. I was on one of the 762's this past weekend and the premium cabin(s) sure could use the face lift.

I guess this is also indication that AA isn't in a rush to replace them either.
 
COERJ145
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 8):
Nothing in coach? No changes? At least maybe the restoration of free inflight warm meals on this oh so important route? Does AA not realize how many FF are in coach with major high profile firms that are just shy of a few miles to upgrade to Biz and F class?

UA recently discontinued the free meals, so AA is in the running in terms of Y service.
 
planecrazy2
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:49 am

The only difference in Y between them is Economy Plus. It's great to hear AA finally raising their standards to p.s., those 762s are real workhorses.
United Airlines - Worldwide Service
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:01 am

They just one upped United by offering lounge access to J class passengers and access to the First Class lounge to F passengers.

This after United discontinues complimentary meals in Y this puts them about even.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 17):
They just one upped United by offering lounge access to J class passengers and access to the First Class lounge to F passengers.

UA allows First Class p.s. customers to use their International First Class Lounges at LAX, JFK, and SFO (though you have to bluff your way past Concourse G security).
 
gigneil
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
t means that the 767-200's may have the new 777 style interiors like the newest 300's have.

Nah... there's not really a signature refit. There are some similar refit packages available but they won't be exactly the same.

NS
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:41 am

Now, if AA would upgrade the first class cabins on the 757s. The cabins on the 737-800s and MD-80s are newer and more comfortable seats.

Considering that the 757s are working their way back into business routes, such as ORD-LAX, rather than only leisure routes, one would think AA would try to pamper the road warriors that upgrade to first.
 
atlflyer
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:54 am

AA sure needs this...anyone have any pictures?
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
Now, if AA would upgrade the first class cabins on the 757s. The cabins on the 737-800s and MD-80s are newer and more comfortable seats.

Considering that the 757s are working their way back into business routes, such as ORD-LAX, rather than only leisure routes, one would think AA would try to pamper the road warriors that upgrade to first.

I want to say that the 757 F class upgrade would be next. With AA moving forward on spending $20MM on their 762's, it appears they aren't going to be replacing them soon. Same with the 757's - they will be around for awhile. I would like to think at least the F class cabins would get an overhaul....new seats, new AVOD perhaps, etc. if they are serious about attracting premium traffic systemwide.

I don't see them considering any upgrades on the premuim cabins for the 738's and MD80's though.
 
ua777222
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:38 am

At the end of the day the aircraft is a widebody. I'd fly it any day over UA's PS Service. And, personally, their PS Service should be standard on such routes so its nice to see someone else step up to the plate.

My  twocents 

Matthew
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
planecrazy2
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 23):
I'd fly it any day over UA's PS Service

Is this because you prefer widebodies? What specifically makes you choose AA on this route?
United Airlines - Worldwide Service
 
roseflyer
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:43 am

I'm just really impressed that they are updating the cabins on planes that are so old. The planes were delivered between 1985 and 1987, so they are about 20 years old. The planes needed a refit many years ago, but the planes in the current configurations can't be operated much longer if they are to compete against the brand new interiors offered by UA.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1978
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
Now, if AA would upgrade the first class cabins on the 757s. The cabins on the 737-800s and MD-80s are newer and more comfortable seats.

That's for sure! And now that AA doesn't even provide pillows it only makes it worse.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):
The planes were delivered between 1985 and 1987, so they are about 20 years old.

I figured these would be the next aircraft to be removed from the AA fleet, especially considering about half of the 762's they had are stored.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 23):
At the end of the day the aircraft is a widebody.

I'd like to see AA put some 763's and A300's into the longer/high density domestic routes, but I know that won't ever happen. But an AA 762 is still better than an AA 752.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
777fan
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:29 am

Man, I had started a thread on this yesterday but it's gone for some reason. Aint no love for 777fan!
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
MCOflyer
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:52 am

Finally. Glad to hear this happening. Now I wonder if they'll install PTV's in economy.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
UA allows First Class p.s. customers to use their International First Class Lounges at LAX, JFK, and SFO (though you have to bluff your way past Concourse G security).

Yup, but J class passengers do not have lounge access, therefore AA one upped United in that sense, and brought their F class offering up to UA's level, as F class passengers could only use the Admirals Club, not the Flagship lounge.
 
jjeff
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:59 am

...

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):
but the planes in the current configurations can't be operated much longer if they are to compete against the brand new interiors offered by UA.

Been on p.s. lately? They're working the 757s so hard that the cabins are starting to show it. I did UA33 JFK-LAX in business on Monday and

- lost all audio about 10 minutes after pushback
- laptop power port was non-functional from the get go
- DVD player didn't work at all despite being plugged into my seatmates power port

The purser was unable to resolve any of these issues. My view: United needs to do a better job keeping on top of interior maintenance and cleaning on these planes if it wants to stay competitive.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:15 pm

The $20M investment does not give them the one thing they need the most on what will become a sub fleet type: fuel efficiency. These planes are getting long in the tooth.

American's cabin enhancements are always done on the cheap. The new biz class is awful. I flew it a few weeks ago from CDG to JFK. The whole thing is chintzy and just does not stack up to the premium cabins of numerous competitors including CO, DL, and certainly not the foreign competition.
 
willyj
Posts: 410
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 17):
They just one upped United by offering lounge access to J class passengers and access to the First Class lounge to F passengers.

But I just talked to a contact at the airline and the lounge access doesn't begin until this summer... why wouldn't they start allowing access immediately, as it is a "free upgrade" - no refit neccessary... or are they waiting to open a new lounge?

I hope they keep the staggered layout in business - 6 abreast is tight on the 762s, but at least when they are staggered you don't feel so close to the person across the aisle - not shoulder to shoulder.
 
scottieprecord
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:32 pm

If AA is updating their 762s, does this show that they don't plan on ordering the 787 anytime soon? Or was no one really expecting them to in the first place?

-Mike
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 22):
I don't see them considering any upgrades on the premuim cabins for the 738's and MD80's though.

Remember that the 738s were delivered with the updated cabins, both first and coach, and the MD-80s received the same cabins in the late 90s. Both have the adjustable headrests in coach and the heavily padded seats in first.

The 757s still have the same cabins that were the norm in the early 90s. The only difference is that the light blue seat covers in coach were replaced with the navy covers, and the gray carpeting was installed.

Quoting Willyj (Reply 32):
I hope they keep the staggered layout in business - 6 abreast is tight on the 762s, but at least when they are staggered you don't feel so close to the person across the aisle - not shoulder to shoulder.

Actually, 6 abreast was the standard layout devised by Boeing in the early 80s, when the 767-200 was designed as the 707 replacement on domestic routes.

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 33):
If AA is updating their 762s, does this show that they don't plan on ordering the 787 anytime soon? Or was no one really expecting them to in the first place?

My guess is that AA is going to buy either 787-8s or -9s for international routes before it buys -3s for long haul/high density domestic routes.
 
LimaNiner
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
Now, if AA would upgrade the first class cabins on the 757s.

Amen to that! I hate taking the SFO-MIA "slaveship", but it's one of my very few options...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 31):
The $20M investment does not give them the one thing they need the most on what will become a sub fleet type: fuel efficiency. These planes are getting long in the tooth.

There isn't anything significantly better. The 763 would be overkill for a 3-class product on this route. This is a niche aircraft. Plus the 762's are low-cycle aircraft. Unlike DL & UA who beat up their 762's on short/medium haul domestic routes, AA mostly flew the 762ER's on Trans-Atlantics and Trans-cons, keeping the cycles and overall wear and tear relatively low for their age.
 
flamant15
Posts: 48
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:53 pm

I would love to see them add winglets with Boeing and increase the efficiency of the aircraft. If you saw the piece on TV a couple of weeks ago then you know that they make very little money on those flight out of JFK to California.

I would also like to see them retire the A300 and use these upgraded 767-200s to fly between JFK and MIA. I don't fly AA out of JFK anymore to go to MIA because of the A300. The interior of the A300 is horrible.

Lastly to add more fuel to this fire, I would prefer to see them use the 767-300 on internal long distance and replace all international planes with 777s. Then use these upgraded 767-200s to fly LGA to MIA, DFW and other longer routes out of LGA.
 
elmothehobo
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:10 am

RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting Flamant15 (Reply 37):
If you saw the piece on TV a couple of weeks ago then you know that they make very little money on those flight out of JFK to California.

That was one off, the JFK-SFO/LAX routes are very profitable.

Quoting Flamant15 (Reply 37):
I would also like to see them retire the A300 and use these upgraded 767-200s to fly between JFK and MIA.

Hahaha, right after they buy A380s to fly to Heathrow. The A300s are perfect for JFK-MIA. There aren't many 767-200s left either, and with the high premium load the aircraft will have very high CASM with a pretty low yield. American sells its 767-200s out of JFK as 2 class flights, with F class being the 9 F seats, and the 30 business and 126 coach sold as coach/main cabin.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 36):
Unlike DL & UA who beat up their 762's on short/medium haul domestic routes, AA mostly flew the 762ER's on Trans-Atlantics and Trans-cons, keeping the cycles and overall wear and tear relatively low for their age.

Absolutely true, though American used to fly its 767s on shorter routes.

Quoting Jjeff (Reply 30):

- laptop power port was non-functional from the get go
- DVD player didn't work at all despite being plugged into my seatmates power port

I heard that United actually turned off the power on a number of their domestic flights - though your seat mates had power, that's rather odd.
 
american762
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:10 am

RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:37 pm

I am very happy that AA is finally going to do something. I will be travelling in the F cabin this April and the J cabin in June. Hopefully I will get on one of the refitted aircraft in June, I know its a long shot. Nice job AA.
Pan Am has a place of its' own. You call it the world, we call it home.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:41 pm

Quoting Elmothehobo (Reply 38):
That was one off, the JFK-SFO/LAX routes are very profitable.

In fact, AA is the top carrier on the JFk-LAX/SFO routes......
"Up the Irons!"
 
CMK10
Posts: 1826
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RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:44 pm

This year I cashed in 15,000 miles to upgrade to Business on p.s. to see what was so amazing about it. What I found was a really awful selection of DVDs for the DVD player, a crew who had no interest in refilling drinks or rolls during the meal and disapeered for two and a half hours in flight and a leather seat that at just over a year old was showing its age. I wished for the days of the United 762s with their Business Class seat that had no one next to it on the left and a table against the wall on the right. So frankly, in my opinion, it won't be too hard for American to take on United, though the First seat on United will be tough to beat.
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2107
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: AA Makes $20M Investment In TransCon Aircraft

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:52 pm

Well all I can say is that having flown F on UA from JFK to LAX/SFO, I would have to be enticed by a serious product upgrade to even consider flying AA again. What am i saying after my double Tech cancellation with AA on their A300's a couple of years ago from JFK to SJU I would need to be paid to fly AA again. Sorry!

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