HBDAN
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FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:59 pm

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....r=06&month=dec&story=rte-en-131206

Great news from Ryanair! Cagliari is very welcomed!

Regards,
HBDAN
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
manni
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:09 pm

How misleading. They've even left out the 'South' of Brussels-South. Unles FR is flying to BRU?

I wonder how long it will take before they ditch the route again. 4 weekly flights only!
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HBDAN
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:11 pm

Route is of course CRL-STN

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
4 weekly flights only!

That's the way FR makes money!

Regards,
HBDAN
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
Joost
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:46 pm

What a bizarre route, especially in this frequency. How can they ever get the higher-yielding pax?

Other new routes are:
GRO-Cagliari (3 weekly)
PSA-Cagliari (3 weekly)
BRE-AGP (3 weekly, as expected as the schedule had a gap on 2-4-6)
BGY-Valadolid (4 weekly)
MAD-CIA (daily) - direct competition with easyJet!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:12 pm

The announcement of Cagilari means that Ryanair now serves (including those announced) 22 Italian destinations (including those in Sardinia and Sicily). I wonder whether it will, at some point, launch London-Cagilari. If it did, it would go head-to-head with easyJet (from Luton), the only other airline on London-Cagilari. And as Italy is firmly Ryanair territory, like Ireland, it'd be interesting to watch what, if anything, happens. As for other potential future Italian destinations, there's Naples, the sure-fire frontrunner; Olbia (if it wishes to serve the three main Sardinian airports); Catania (although there's a lot of competition on this route, and already low fares); and Reggio di Calabria (over 200,000 pop., although its proximity to Lamezia, although 50-100 KM away, might mean it isn't served). Who knows?

Regarding Charleroi, here's the breakdown of traffic (from the independent report available here: http://www.ryanair.com/site/about/in...docs/analyst/davy_2006-03-29.pdf):

Outbound constitutes 60% of the total, of which 59% is from Belgium, 21% from France, 18% from the Netherlands and 2% combined from Germany and Luxembourg.

Of the 59% from Belgium, 45% is from Flanders, 36% from Wallonia and only 19% from Brussels. So not many originate from the capital.

And the catchment area of Charleroi:

5m people within a 1-hour drive and 15m within a 2-hour drive.

Why do the people using Charleroi fly?

40% for tourism
32% to visit family and friends (e.g., there are large Italian communities in the region)
22% for business
6% for other reasons

---

Could the Stansted-Charleroi be more aimed at those living in the Flanders and Wallonia, perhaps particularly the latter, areas than those going to or from Brussels? It might be a convenient option for them, and the four-times-weekly frequency, which at first seems shockingly infrequent, might be explained by that. Who knows? It does not seem to make much sense, but who knows?
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Flying Belgian
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:16 am

I've never understood why they dropped CRL-STN...


F.B
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Humberside
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 5):
I've never understood why they dropped CRL-STN...

Eurostar I think

But 4 times aweek is bit pathetic - surely it needs to be twice week-daily at least?
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Joost
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:14 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
As for other potential future Italian destinations, there's Naples, the sure-fire frontrunner;

That should be from Terminal 2; from what I heard T1 is quite busy Does anybody have information about the capacity of that terminal?

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Catania (although there's a lot of competition on this route, and already low fares);

By who? BA is flying from LGW and Thomsonfly some low-frequency flights, but that's it from London. Could complement. To Italian destinations, it's well served, but there are plenty of opportunities from Spain, Germany, more British destinations. Currently, CTA is overcrowded but when the new terminal is finally ready, maybe FR (and/or U2) can find a good use of the current terminal? I can see quite some potential from Sicily to Belgium and Germany (CTA-CRL/BRE/HHN) as there is a large Sicilian population in these countries.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 6):
But 4 times a week is bit pathetic - surely it needs to be twice week-daily at least?

FR's spokesman replied they hadn't enough aircrafts based @ CRL...

My guess is just that they give another chance to that route.


FB.
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Pe@rson
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 7):
By who?

KM also operates from CTA to LGW, presently 3x weekly.

There is, of course, plenty of potential remaining to Italy from a number of European countries; indeed, Italy has the fourth-largest western European population and market potential. However, I believe that there is still potential from London to certain Italian destinations, especially as it is the primary airline from London to Italy, which would increase the number of Italian destinations (including those announced) from its current 22 Italian destinations, such as Naples. And what about Reggio de Calabria? Certainly, it's only 50-100 KM from Lamezia (served thrice-weekly from STN), but I know people who come from Reggio (which has a pop. of about 200,000) but now live in Britain. But would that interfere with the demand to and from Lemezia? I don't know. It's impossible for us to say for certain. Would it be profitable? Again, we don't know.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Joost
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:33 pm

I can only agree that Italy has great potential. Not only because of population size, but also standard of living and that Italians are really 'discovering' the city-break more and more. Not too long ago, I read a research that mentioned that the city-break market from Italy was growing very fast; faster than in the UK or the Netherlands for example, where that kind of vacation has been popular for a long time. That's great potential for Ryanair and also easyJet, that is also growing quite fast in Italy; the MXP base will go to 6 a/c this year. (today no. 4 arrived). And with Alitalia in trouble, the fruit is hanging low. Tomorrow they're on strike again...

Do you know why TSF is not a base yet? It would seem to be a very logical choice.
 
spantax
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:07 am

Well, Ryanair is a point-to-point airline, but... it makes sense to have a lot of flights from all over Europe to/from their "hub" in STN. Maybe CRL-STN is not a big hit in itself but Charleroi/Brussels to everywhere in Europe with stopover at Stansted is a rather logical move IMHO. Regards
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Pe@rson
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 10):
but also standard of living

True, but only in the north: southern Italy is one of the poorest areas in Europe.

Plenty of demand to and from Italy, and currently only some of it has been realised. And with the shape of AZ...

Further to KM operating 3x weekly CTA-LGW-CTA, 1x is by 320 and 2x by 319.

Quoting Joost (Reply 10):
Do you know why TSF is not a base yet? It would seem to be a very logical choice.

No idea why. I flew from TSF (to STN) in September. There was a brand-new, and from the outside nice, terminal there (when I had visited a couple years previously, it wasn't there). Maybe that indicates that not only will FR increase its flights to and from there, but also that it will become a base. After all, there is plenty of demand to and from Venice - and Treviso itself is a nice place. Anyway, FR currently flies 10 routes to and from Treviso, its largest Italian non-base and one of its largest overall non-bases.

Some FR facts re. Italy:

118 routes to and from Italy (excluding PSA-FDH, which will end, but including announced routes)
22 Italian destinations
3 Italian bases - BGY, PSA, CIA. BGY = 24 routes; PSA = 22 routes; CIA = 22 routes.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
IL76
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:20 pm

Maybe they just needed a purpose for those last ratty 737-200's before they are disposed off. What to do? Send them to CRL!   

PS... Before anyone starts attacking, I'm only joking, I know the 200's are already gone

[Edited 2006-12-15 08:22:02]
 
Joost
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
True, but only in the north: southern Italy is one of the poorest areas in Europe.

Ehm? One of the poorest of the 'old EU-15' and I can agree. But after having been in Latvia and Sicily, I can say that there's still a huge difference between them. (I know Sicily is slightly richer than Lamezia).

Do you have information about CIA and BGY? Is CIA still locked for further expansion? And did FR and the operator of BGY already solve their problems that cause the lack of expansion?
 
Pe@rson
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:22 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
Ehm? One of the poorest of the 'old EU-15' and I can agree.

Yes. I meant Western European countries. You knew that. Clearly, it is richer than, as you said, Latvia, etc. And certainly richer than non-EU Eastern European countries, such as Ukraine, Moldova, etc. But the difference between north and south Italy is obvious. Anyway, moving on...

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
Is CIA still locked for further expansion? And did FR and the operator of BGY already solve their problems that cause the lack of expansion?

No idea. I've been in Southeast Asia for the past 34 days and have another 2 months to go before I'm back in the UK. I haven't really kept up-to-date with it. I'm surprised you don't know.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Joost
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:55 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
Yes. I meant Western European countries. You knew that.

Well, actually I didn't. Here in the Netherlands, a often-heard opinion about southern Italy actually is that the economic situation is similar to that of Latvia or Poland. It happened to me several times that people mentioned "oh these people must be very poor" when I told that I visited my girlfriends family in Sicily.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
I'm surprised you don't know.

Haha  Smile Unfortunaltely, no news crossed my path so far. I only have news about a possible base et Eindhoven: Ryanair wants it, the airport wants it, but there is one problem: local law prohibits activities at the airport on sunday morning, so therefore FR won't base aircraft there. They want to wait untill the end of 2007 and when it isn't arranged by then, shelve the plans.

I'm quite sceptical. A lot happened in airport legislation in NL the last years. Before, all airports were part of national law. Now, they have been split in 'airports of national interest' (national gov't decides) and 'airports of regional intereset' (local gov't decides). The first group consists of AMS and LEY (the latter is very good news for the airport, as it opens a door for a STN/HHN-like scenario); the second group is RTM, GRQ, EIN, ENS, MST.

So the local Eindhoven government will decide about it. Currently, Eindhoven has a very left-winged city council, so I have my doubts... But maybe they can persuade them with job opportunities  Smile

And I have kind-of-news about NRN: there won't be any news before Christmas as one of the judges who will decide about the future is ill.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:02 pm

Thanks for the update.

Quoting Joost (Reply 16):
my girlfriends family in Sicily.

Talking about the north-south: your girlfriend's family comes from Sicily, my girlfriend's family (a couple of generations ago) came from Como, in the far north.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Humberside
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RE: FR Is Back On The London - Brussels Route

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 8):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 6):
But 4 times a week is bit pathetic - surely it needs to be twice week-daily at least?

FR's spokesman replied they hadn't enough aircrafts based @ CRL...

My guess is just that they give another chance to that route.

If FR want to do a UK route 4 times a week they'd probably be better off serving LPL, NEMA or BOH. 4 times a week just isnt the frequency to compete in the LON-Brussels market (and thats what FR are competing in by advertising Charleroi as Brussels South)
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