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yellowtail
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DL Expanding To BZE?

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:28 pm

Have noticed that DL have loaded a new flight in their system ..a 2nd flight....are they expanding again after falling back to a CRJ

I don't know when it starts but in addition to DL270 which is a midday flight...I am also showing a late evening departure DL4845....which overnights in Belize...but I can only find it on Sat

This would be great for us to make European connections if it starts year round.

And have Delta gone back to the 738 from the CRJ on the route?

Anyone with more info?
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MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:34 am

Delta will still only be operating one daily flight. CRJ-700 daily excepet Saturdays, when it is a 738. Goes back to CR7 in the summer. Belize has been a poor performer for Delta, but it is nice to see them stick it out.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Belize has been a poor performer for Delta, but it is nice to see them stick it out.

Belize is a place for "eco'" tourism, or "adventure" tourism. Not quite the big Hotel & All-Inclusive mecca as it is further up the coast at CUN or CZM that bring in substantial numbers. Rather it is a very popular place with the scuba-diving crowd. How would an airline such as DL improve their numbers to a place like BZE?
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belizexp
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:29 am

Hi Guys I did see this in DL skd in 2007 but since it DL I fig I would zip my lips. Not sure when it start and for how long but in March and Apr I saw the DL mainline flt 271 ATL BZE same flt # as before(Sat only)and the ASA CR7 daily. The CR7 will RON in BZE On Sat this CR7 will lv BZE @ 8AM Sunday Morning which in my book good for travellers to Non U.S. Markets.... eg. Europe, Middle East, Canada and other LatAm. All other days the CR7 will do the midday flt to BZE....

P.S. Yellowtail did AA Eagle ever use the ERJ to Bze as a RON.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Belize is a place for "eco'" tourism, or "adventure" tourism. Not quite the big Hotel & All-Inclusive mecca as it is further up the coast at CUN or CZM that bring in substantial numbers. Rather it is a very popular place with the scuba-diving crowd. How would an airline such as DL improve their numbers to a place like BZE?

One problem is that there is a very loyal local customer base in Belize, and they all fly AA or CO to Miami and Houston. One reason is because Miami and Houston are where Belizians want to go, but still, they remain very loyal to AA and CO. Delta needs to buidl up their strength with the local community as well, who are also paying higher fares and traveling to/from Belize for often.
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:31 am

Delta could advertise and work with dive operators, they don't.

CO has daily flights (sometimes twice daily depending on season) from IAH to BZE plus the saturday EWR flight. TACA works a daily IAH-BZE flight. AA has Miami Daily with several times weekly DFW. CO, AA, and TACA work with dive operators and advertise. US Airways is doing this also. Delta is not

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MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 5):
AA has Miami Daily with several times weekly DFW.

Small correction: 2x daily to MIA and daily to DFW, all 738s.
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:39 am

Really? My bad then, AA only had one daily Miami advertised on my last visit in October. IS that year round now? Ditto DFW, when did that become year round daily?

Thanks for the update.

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commavia
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 3):
Yellowtail did AA Eagle ever use the ERJ to Bze as a RON.

Eagle RJs have never flown anywhere international beyond the Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas, as they are not over-water certified. Thus, Belize would most definitely be out of the question.
 
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 7):
Really? My bad then, AA only had one daily Miami advertised on my last visit in October. IS that year round now? Ditto DFW, when did that become year round daily?

MIA-BZE is 2x daily November through May; June through October it is 12x weekly with no second frequencies on TuSu. It has been like this since 2001.

DFW-BZE is daily year-round as of this year; it used to be 5x weekly during the summer.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):
Eagle RJs have never flown anywhere international beyond the Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas, as they are not over-water certified. Thus, Belize would most definitely be out of the question.

Dallas-Belize City can hug the coastline, so it isn't out of the question. Though the route does fine with the 738, so no reason to use an ERJ and increase the stage length.

[Edited 2006-12-14 22:24:18]
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 3):
P.S. Yellowtail did AA Eagle ever use the ERJ to Bze as a RON.



No..they used to RON a 738 with mixed success..always 50% full but all business traffic. RJ would be perfect

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
One problem is that there is a very loyal local customer base in Belize, and they all fly AA or CO to Miami and Houston. One reason is because Miami and Houston are where Belizians want to go, but still, they remain very loyal to AA and CO. Delta needs to buidl up their strength with the local community as well, who are also paying higher fares and traveling to/from Belize for often.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Trouble is the started sat only 738...great success..4 X 738..great success...daily 738 failure...real mystery

US used to do real well on CLT route but as of late...no....theory is the are cannablizing each other as it is a niche market.


Also, evidently DL has issued an ultimatum to The tourist board to either market the flight or subisdise it because if it doesn't improve by summer its GONE

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Small correction: 2x daily to MIA and daily to DFW, all 738s.

You are both right.....the 2XMia is not year round (Nov-Sept) and the DFW is only year round Nov-Sept....rest of the year it is 1XMiami and 5Xweekly DFW....AA's bread and butter is Mia...All Buiness traffic with lots of connectign Pax to KIN, LHR, BGI, POS, MBJ and local traffic to NYC

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
One problem is that there is a very loyal local customer base in Belize, and they all fly AA or CO to Miami and Houston. One reason is because Miami and Houston are where Belizians want to go, but still, they remain very loyal to AA and CO.

They want to go to Miami...but he use Houston for conenctions (I do)....lots go to SoCal....and CO has worked very hard building loyalty here, taking losses o nthe routes for many years to now enjoy the fruits. DL must do the same. TA only keeps the route open to kill us on the SAL-BZE monopoly. I counted 10 Pax gettign on TA to IAH on Mon...OUCH!
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:28 am

Ah that makes more sense then thanks for the update MAH. I didn't remember seeing double daily advertised back in September and October- I am glad I am not loosing my mind! Glad to see more flights for AA though I will still mainly fly MilAir or CO. AA is always my backup plan. You are correct for many of my Belizean friends CO and AA through Houston and Miami are the main two flights and hubs they take. DL is not doing a good job at trying to chip away at that. US Airways a bit better from what I saw but I don't know about their loads.

I could do with a few less cruise ships but that is another story.

I actually saw two different travels agencies here in Maastricht that were advertising Belize vacations. That is a first for me here in Europe.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 11):
I could do with a few less cruise ships but that is another story.


Amen...Few is a generous word....how bout none! hate them!
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MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 10):
You are both right.....the 2XMia is not year round (Nov-Sept) and the DFW is only year round Nov-Sept....rest of the year it is 1XMiami and 5Xweekly DFW...

That is incorrect. MIA-BZE is 12x weekly year-round with 14x weekly during winter (although Summer '06 it operated 11x, but it will be 12x again Summer 07). Dallas is, as of this year, daily, year-round. Last summer it was 5x weekly, this summer it will be daily.

[Edited 2006-12-14 22:52:59]
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
MIA-BZE is 12x weekly year-round

Don't mean to argue....but it is only ONCE daily Sept 15 - Nov 15......I fly the route enough..Every year they say they will keep it 2X daily....Every year they reduce it in the Fall

CO is the only open to operate twice daily to anwhere (IAH) in the fall. I fly that too......they do well.
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MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 14):
Don't mean to argue....but it is only ONCE daily Sept 15 - Nov 15......I fly the route enough..Every year they say they will keep it 2X daily....Every year they reduce it in the Fall

Actually, yes, my error. During that two month period it is once daily, as that is when AA puts planes into heavy maintence and doesn't have sufficient aircraft to operate a full schedule. They never "say" they will fly it 2x daily. They don't have enough aircraft during that time to fly it 2x daily. AA reduces flights across the board.
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belizexp
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
Belize is a place for "eco'" tourism, or "adventure" tourism. Not quite the big Hotel & All-Inclusive mecca as it is further up the coast at CUN or CZM that bring in substantial numbers. Rather it is a very popular place with the scuba-diving crowd.

100% checkmark 

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
How would an airline such as DL improve their numbers to a place like BZE?

By marketing in local Belize Media a thing that suck about delta website is your not allow to buy tickets from BZE onwards Only from U.S. which is a slap in the face for locals. I have many family and friends that always ask my to look up fares from BZE to the U.S. sometime I find great deal but I'm not allow to book it from BZE. I know not alot of Belizeans buy ticket online but I have a few friends and family who do come up just to shopping eg. X-Mas or Summer

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Belizians

No disrespect but it Belizeans

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
One problem is that there is a very loyal local customer base in Belize, and they all fly AA or CO

Your so correct I have friends in NY that I told them DL fly to BZE and I get feedback like ATL to far..
 eyepopping 

Also BZE has a History of short lived service and airliners PA,EA,JM,Air Florida,BAL,Air Trans Belize,and Tan so I can see why one would stick to what one knows AKA AA and CO.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):
Eagle RJs have never flown anywhere international beyond the Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas, as they are not over-water certified. Thus, Belize would most definitely be out of the question.



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 10):
No..they used to RON a 738 with mixed success..always 50% full but all business traffic. RJ would be perfect

Thanks guys I knew I was right I saw an AA members myspace page talking about a RON Eagle in BZE.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 11):
DL is not doing a good job at trying to chip away at that.

Well I guess it our job as Belizeans to help DL stay in BZE. I'm pride of DL for hanging in the BZE market with DL in BZE we have jobs for our locals who really need it. I was in YUL recently on a OH flt and I was so pride to see on the drink napkin "Belize City" in big red letters.
 Big grin  bigthumbsup 

F.Y.I

Early this year from Miss Belize website Prize's

PRIZE PACKAGE # 4


"The Miss Belize Organization is very pleased to have the sponsorship of Delta Airlines on board with Miss Belize 2006 pageant. We would also like to commend you for your immediate response upon our request. Special thanks to Mrs. Gladys A. Henriquez and Mrs. Maria A Tapia of Delta Airlines for proving Miss Belize with round trip tickets for two to anywhere Delta Airlines flies out of Belize and into the USA." (over $1,100 USD )

Part 2
Acommodations for this prize package depends on final destination.

PRIZE PACKAGE # 6

She (1 person) will have the opportunity to depart from Belize to any port of entry Continental Airlines flies in the United States of America.
(1,600 USD Max)

Who do you think got better media attention.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:27 am

American Eagle has never flown to Belize and is not even authorized to fly there.
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 16):
By marketing in local Belize Media a thing that suck about delta website is your not allow to buy tickets from BZE onwards Only from U.S. which is a slap in the face for locals. I have many family and friends that always ask my to look up fares from BZE to the U.S. sometime I find great deal but I'm not allow to book it from BZE

Actually, I believe that you can buy online on delta.com for travel originating from BZE now - have you tried it lately? It quotes you a fare in the local currency BZD. In fact, I've noticed that delta.com actually allows one to purchase tickets originating from practically all of Delta's overseas destinations now.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 16):
By marketing in local Belize Media a thing that suck about delta website is your not allow to buy tickets from BZE onwards Only from U.S. which is a slap in the face for locals. I have many family and friends that always ask my to look up fares from BZE to the U.S. sometime I find great deal but I'm not allow to book it from BZE. I know not alot of Belizeans buy ticket online but I have a few friends and family who do come up just to shopping eg. X-Mas or Summ

With AA I can book the trip then go down the the AA office and pay. DL does not have a "real" office here like CO and AA

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 16):
Who do you think got better media atten

and that was about the only time I have heard DL do any marketing here.
They do need better local marketing to try to balance the loads in low season liek CO and AA do....I would venture to say CO loads are 50% Bze originating. For example, I had to go the wringer to book a family member on the DL flight to Atlanta tommorrow.....we ended up having to ask their local airport manager heer to book it. Was a pain.

And for some reason even US does better....I know pax that use it to get to Tampa..talk about going north to get south....
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:42 pm

exactly. This is the first DL ad I've seen on the BZE end. For US carriers they are still #4 behind CO and AA at the top with US then DL. TACA has its own niche though I flew them once but I gotta stick with CO  Wink

CO pulled the Tikal RJ from Houston this month so that could put a handful back in the BZE bound seats but I wonder how much the TIKAL flights pulled from the CO IAH-BZE loads to begin with?

Chetumel would be a possible also though would that cannabalise from BZE ? I think it would. anyone else have thoughts on it?

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 20):
Chetumel would be a possible also though would that cannabalise from BZE ? I think it would. anyone else have thoughts on it?


Chetumal would definitely cannablize BZE....though most of the raffic that would use it probably goes to MIA instead of IAH....so might hurt AA more.

I don't think FLS had a bad effect on BZE. I have a friend at CO here and they told me that their loads have been good even through the low season and that if they could find a way to make it work they would put a 3rd IAH-BZE that would RON to try to get some of AA's business traffic to Europe....an 4X RJ flight like DL is planning to do would be perfect

CO is also considering moving the EWR flight to 4X once the runway extension opens .
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 18):
Actually, I believe that you can buy online on delta.com for travel originating from BZE now - have you tried it lately? It quotes you a fare in the local currency BZD. In fact, I've noticed that delta.com actually allows one to purchase tickets originating from practically all of Delta's overseas destinations now.

Would DL actually do better flying this route from LAX rather than ATL? My first suspicion is that LAX could offer more O&D potential to such a flight than ATL for BZE as a destination. I realize that LAX is a longer flight, especially on a CRJ, but I would suspect that there is more of an "adventure" or "eco-tourist" type of clientele as I pointed out in one of my posts above coming out of LAX than ATL. If BZE had more resorts etc, and catered to that crowd as well then ATL or JFK could work, but I would think BZE has more local ties to LAX as well.  twocents 
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:03 am

BZE does have more local ties to LAX than ATL

Belize doesn't need to many "more" resorts. A balance must be maintained but hat is a rant for another thread. IIRC Taca flew the LAX route for a short time ditto New Orleans.

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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 23):
Belize doesn't need to many "more" resorts. A balance must be maintained but hat is a rant for another thread. IIRC Taca flew the LAX route for a short time ditto New Orlean

TA has never flown the LAX-BZE route non stop....only through SAL....which they still do.

TA flew BZE-MSY for MANY MANY years...remember the 733 on the levee? In fact i flew it when they were using the BAC111.....Evenetually the route just faded like much of N.O.

As yes I do believe a LAX-BZE RJ would work....I have been on a CO flight to BZE-IAH-LAX when practically the entire BZE flight transferred onto LAX. this is CO bread and butter.

Some say more Belizeans live in LA than Belize....probably almost true.
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:26 am

back in the 98-99 Taca routed LAX as a through flight LAX that is (not Non-stop) my bad on the LAX tag on (I flew it myself once, no plane change). NOLA has been around a long time as has Houston with TACA
Southern Lousiana has a large (by Belizean standards and older) number of folks of Belizean heritage but they don't warrant a NS. LA is tops now I am told by some folks back in Belmopan, with Miami next and Houston, New Orleans (pre Katrina) and lately DC catching on.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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MAH4546
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 24):

As yes I do believe a LAX-BZE RJ would work....

Los Angeles-Belize City is longer than Miami-Las Vegas. It is the length of a US trans-con route. An RJ can't operate such a long route.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 24):
Some say more Belizeans live in LA than Belize....probably almost true.

There are almost 300,000 people in Belize. There is definitley not 300,000 Belizeans, or anything close to it, in LA. Though Los Angeles does have the country's largest Belizean community, it is probably in the 25,000-30,000 range. I think that if Delta grows their LAX operation, they might start a Saturday 738 service on LAX-BZE.
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 25):
Southern Lousiana has a large (by Belizean standards and older) number of folks of Belizean heritage but they don't warrant a NS. LA is tops now I am told by some folks back in Belmopan, with Miami next and Houston, New Orleans (pre Katrina) and lately DC catching on

CHicago is far bigger than N.O. and we forgot NYC....which is probably no 2. Tampa also quite large....hence WN interest in BZE (TPA-BZE) some years ago as their first international destination....
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:26 am

LAX-BZE is very long, covering 3-4 time zones (Is BZE Central or Eastern?), and at 2177 miles it is much like SLC-FLL, but the market demography clearly is indicative this would make a flight more successful:
Big version: Width: 350 Height: 369 File size: 4kb
LAX-BZE; 2177 miles

Like many issues facing DL, equipment is obviously the big one, and while this flight has difficulty justifying a much needed and in demand 738 except Saturdays, perhaps it could work if OO/ASA could get a hold of some EMB-175s, this just might be the route to stick it on. DL puts a Shuttle America EMB-170 on SLC-MZT with reasonable success. Just too bad not enough of these more comfortable regional jets aren't available for building up such routes.
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belizexp
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
Saturday 738 service on LAX-BZE

Only if this was to happen DL would be able to cash in big time on O/D and knock CO and TA 20 years back in the BZE market.  cloudnine   cloudnine 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 23):
Belize doesn't need to many "more" resorts. A balance must be maintained but that is a rant for another thread.

I certainly hear you and agree with you 100%. Belize should be an "All-Inclusive Free Zone!" This way you have fewer drunkards roaming about, no big charters full of Canucks and Brits arriving every other day and come March/April no partying and  drunk  Yankee college students arriving in droves to trash the place! BZE doesn't need to be CUN, PUJ or what FLL was once upon a time.
I was merely pointing out that the feed from ATL would work in that situation just as it does for CUN from ATL, SLC and JFK. But BZE will NEVER succumb to that!
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:57 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 27):
CHicago is far bigger than N.O. and we forgot NYC.

With regards to Belizeans-No it isn't at least not according to Belmopan (I already noted NYC). DC (metro) is gaining more than Chicago.

I don't think DL going N/S to LAX would kill CO though it might kill TACA. CO could easily keep the daily flight at goods loads even with LAX though the second flight might dissappear.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
I think that if Delta grows their LAX operation, they might start a Saturday 738 service on LAX-BZE.

 checkmark 100%! Would work much better than ATL.
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:27 pm

Just for guys..hot of the press.....Sorry could wait any more for the late DL CRJ....
Big version: Width: 1761 Height: 1164 File size: 1086kb
CO N33282 738. Traffic Jam on a BZE Saturday. Just missed the US319 going by o nthe runway. Who goes first? The Caravan!
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RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:29 pm

BTW....a runway extension worker was badly hurt on Friday after he attempted to pass behind a RAF VC10 that was revving up his engines.

I belive it blew him and the cart 35 ft. He lost a leg.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
belizexp
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 am

RE: DL Expanding To BZE?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Thread starter):
I don't know when it starts but in addition to DL270 which is a midday fligh

It start March every Sat starting March 3,10,17,24,31- April 7,14,21,28 (It looks like a spring break skd)

Quoting Yellowtail (Thread starter):
Delta gone back to the 738 from the CRJ on the route?

As far as I can tell No...Only on High demand time

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 33):
Just for guys..hot of the press.....Sorry could wait any more for the late DL CRJ....

Hey Yellowtail awesome picture I would of love it if you got the DL CR7 too but here a heads up Dec 30 was showing a DL 737-800 I would love it if your around to take some more shots (Beside I don't see no DL photo's of BZE in the a.net DB).


P.S. If you can please send me a Instant Mgs.
Belize my home sweet home...