8herveg
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Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:02 am

Can someone please tell me why BA stopped serving Newquay and Plymouth from Gatwick, and handed over to Air Southwest?

Surely by keeping the route with BA, it would allow for better connections at Gatwick?

Does anyone know how many passengers which use the service actually connect at Gatwick and how many finish their destination at Gatwick?

Surely if people book a flight from NQY or PLY on the BA website, they can book to almost any destination served from Gatwick?

What is it like booking an Air Southwest flight to Gatwick and connecting onto another airline? Will the connecting airline book the Air Southwest flight for you as well?
 
speedbirdegjj
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Can someone please tell me why BA stopped serving Newquay and Plymouth from Gatwick, and handed over to Air Southwest?

It was stopped in the midst of the Brymon BRAL merger that made Citiexpress a few years back. This move effectively killed off the BA presence in the southwest which stemmed back to the Brymon days. Many of the pilots crew and management, and indeed the first 2/3 Dash 8's were ex BA/Brymon.

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Surely if people book a flight from NQY or PLY on the BA website, they can book to almost any destination served from Gatwick?

What is it like booking an Air Southwest flight to Gatwick and connecting onto another airline? Will the connecting airline book the Air Southwest flight for you as well?

No Air Southwest operate as a point to point carrier and as such have no interline agreements with other carriers. Having said that i'm sure than plenty of people do use the service for onward connections.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:23 pm

Quoting Speedbirdegjj (Reply 1):
It was stopped in the midst of the Brymon BRAL merger that made Citiexpress a few years back. This move effectively killed off the BA presence in the southwest which stemmed back to the Brymon days. Many of the pilots crew and management, and indeed the first 2/3 Dash 8's were ex BA/Brymon.

Those service were once operated out of LHR. Those days BA had flights to ABZ, BFS, EDI, GLA, MAN, NCL, JER, BRS, NQY and PLY out of LHR. Most of domestic flights were transferred to LGW and then stopped all the way.

BA has one of the poorest domestic presence in its own market in Europe. It will get worse with the sell of BACONNECT, I am afraid Sad
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speedbirdegjj
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
BA has one of the poorest domestic presence in its own market in Europe. It will get worse with the sell of BACONNECT, I am afraid

Indeed we do, but its surely no coincidence that we're also the most profitable!... Fact of the matter is there's no longer any money to be made in the UK regions for a full service carrier. The days of flying routes for the status are long gone.

For me the biggest sign of the shift in trends will be BHX come next spring, the first A319 base will no longer have any BA presence at all  eek 
 
8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 2):
BA has one of the poorest domestic presence in its own market in Europe. It will get worse with the sell of BACONNECT, I am afraid

That doesn't mean to say that the domestic presence will worsen out of LHR, as BA Connect do not operate out of here.

Once the 3rd runway is built, the domestic market will hopefully increase!
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 4):
That doesn't mean to say that the domestic presence will worsen out of LHR, as BA Connect do not operate out of here.



Quoting SpeedbirdEGJJ (Reply 3):
Indeed we do, but its surely no coincidence that we're also the most profitable!... Fact of the matter is there's no longer any money to be made in the UK regions for a full service carrier. The days of flying routes for the status are long gone.

For me the biggest sign of the shift in trends will be BHX come next spring, the first A319 base will no longer have any BA presence at all

What you say is true but I am sure BA would have made the regions work with a fleet of 737s offering low cost flights, plus a business product for the businessmen. An ER4, can not do that.

I think this is a shortsighted strategy. BA is getting too carefull with its regional network, its asian and south anerican one.
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UAL777UK
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting Speedbirdegjj (Reply 1):
No Air Southwest operate as a point to point carrier and as such have no interline agreements with other carriers. Having said that i'm sure than plenty of people do use the service for onward connections.

 checkmark 
 
8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:10 am

I think if BA had the slots at Heathrow, flights to Carlisle, Belfast, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Inverness, Leeds, Liverpool, Durham and Sheffield could easily work.

Thats 10 destinations however, which would need about 60 (3 or 4 flights rotating each way) extra slots at Heathrow to make the routes viable for both business passengers and connecting passengers.
 
Humberside
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:09 am

Those services could be profitable Im sure, but other services (e.g. A B747 flight from JFK) could be even more profitable and thats why BA dont serve those airports from LHR
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ZBA320
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 7):
Carlisle,

Does Carlisle even have some form of terminal? I thought it was only used by GA and the Titan Mail 737 or has that long since ceased?

It's a shame British Airways has cut back in the UK. I suppose the Slots at Heathrow can be used for many other services.

[Edited 2006-12-15 23:26:29]
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albird87
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:32 am

I once flew on the Route from LGW to PLY and it was full both ways!! Also when i checked in at PLY, there were 2 couples who were going onto JFK and had to transfer to LHR to get to them. It is a shame that BA have lost there domestic market and all these LLC are now grabbing all the routes now. If only the situation at LHR could be dramatically improved and then BA operate more domestic flights now then these route could come back.

Perhaps if BA could somehow buy out alot of airlines from there heathrow slots and then leave there operations at LGW and then operate all there services to/ from LHR we might see some good connections from there

 scratchchin   old 
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8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
Those services could be profitable Im sure, but other services (e.g. A B747 flight from JFK) could be even more profitable and thats why BA dont serve those airports from LHR

Thats why I said, if Heathrow had more slots available. This way, they woudl be able to operate more domestic routes + more B747 style routes!
 
gkirk
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 9):
Does Carlisle even have some form of terminal? I thought it was only used by GA and the Titan Mail 737 or has that long since ceased?

No mail flights any more.
Has a terminal with 3 check in desks, a bar and 6 seats  Silly
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Humberside
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 12):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 8):
Those services could be profitable Im sure, but other services (e.g. A B747 flight from JFK) could be even more profitable and thats why BA dont serve those airports from LHR

Thats why I said, if Heathrow had more slots available. This way, they woudl be able to operate more domestic routes + more B747 style routes!

Would be nice if it worked like that but unfortuantely I imagine all new slots would go for long haul routes

For example, when the 3rd (short) runway opens at LHR I would imagine short haul flights on the existing runways will get moved onto the new runway and the spare slots on the existing runways used for long haul flights

Also if any new regional airports get served from LHR, dont expect BA to be the operating airline - you do know they are called London Airways!!! Seriously though if BA cant make LHR-Belfast work, how could they make LHR-INV, CAX or LBA work? If anyone adds new domstic destinations from LHR it will be bmi. Indeed there has been a rumour of JER-LHR on pprune but I'm not so sure on that one, as it would involve a nightstopping aircraft at JER and therefore using a valuable peak time slot of LHR. Maybe as a midday flight like INV though
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CXA330300
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:23 am

BA Connect is being sold? What did I miss?
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vv701
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 15):
BA Connect is being sold? What did I miss?

Subject to successful due diligence flybe. (formerly British European and, before that, Jersey European) will buy BA Connect from BA at the end of next March. Not included is the BA Connect fleet of RJ100s. This will remain with BA. It will be based at EDI to serve on routes out of LCY (EDI being to only BA domestic destrination from LCY and there being too small a ramp to base the RJ100 fleet at LCY).
 
BA787
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):

BA will also recieve a 20% shareholding in flybe as part of the deal, although this is said to be temporary until flybe is publicly offered in 2008
 
8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Also if any new regional airports get served from LHR, dont expect BA to be the operating airline - you do know they are called London Airways!!!

That doesn't make sense. It would be just the same as if BA operated new flights to some other part of the world from London. The whole point is that Heathrow is in need of new regional routes. So of course they are going to be out of London....where else?!?!
 
Humberside
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Also if any new regional airports get served from LHR, dont expect BA to be the operating airline - you do know they are called London Airways!!!

That doesn't make sense. It would be just the same as if BA operated new flights to some other part of the world from London.

BA dont appear to care about the UK Regions, including flights into LHR. If they cant make BFS work from LHR I doubt they could make or would even attempt make anywhere else new in the UK work from LHR

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
The whole point is that Heathrow is in need of new regional routes

Needs - Yes
Do you always get what you need - sadly no

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
So of course they are going to be out of London....where else?!?!

Who's disputing that  Confused
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BA787
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 19):
BA dont appear to care about the UK Regions

Don't care is a bit strong and harsh. They do not serve them because they are not profitable, if they were BA would serve them. They do care about them and I know they would love to serve them if they could turen a profit on them, but they cannot, which leaves them in a bit of a hole when it comes to UK regional
 
David_itl
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 20):
BA dont appear to care about the UK Regions

Don't care is a bit strong and harsh. They do not serve them because they are not profitable, if they were BA would serve them

Or better still...they have worked out that there are certain routes that are profitable for them to operate, but they can't be bothered operating them as it's deemed to be not as profitable as running them out of LHR/LGW.

Hence, they have shot themselves in the foot and more or less cemented the idea that the only non-London route for the short to medium term is going to be MAN-JFK i.e. a route almost completely reliant upon no connections. Had they had a coherent 2nd hub strategy a decade ago i.e. not concentrating on 2 London hubs, they could have established a network of services that could have fed a limted long-haul network at any of their primary stations away from London.
 
8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 19):
If they cant make BFS work from LHR I doubt they could make or would even attempt make anywhere else new in the UK work from LHR

The only reason they wouldn't be able to make BFS work, is because bmi already operate 8 flights a day to BHD.

But no one currently flies to Carlisle, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Liverpool, Sheffield from Heathrow.

If Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can work from Gatwick, Im sure they would be able to work from Heathrow, if they transferred the flights over!
 
ZBA320
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 13):
Has a terminal with 3 check in desks, a bar and 6 seats

Sounds like a typical Ryanair Terminal to me!! Big grin
An Engineer made a bet that a 747 Gear wouldn't retract in a Hangar. He lost the bet.
 
LGW
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 22):
If Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can work from Gatwick, Im sure they would be able to work from Heathrow, if they transferred the flights over!

Leave it out, we lose out enough to that airport up the M23/ M25 already!

As has been said slots at LHR are hardly easy to come by and BA would rather use their LHR slots on more lucrative services than IOM etc

[Edited 2006-12-17 22:12:58]
 
David_itl
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting LGW" class=quote target=_blank>LGW (Reply 23):
BA would rather use their LHR slots on more lucrative services than IOM

I would suggest the idea that when BA acquired Manx, the biggest prize for them was the slots that Manx held at LHR. It therefore allowed them to use those slots for more lucrative LHR services and move the IOM service over to LGW.
 
8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting LGW (Reply 23):
As has been said slots at LHR are hardly easy to come by and BA would rather use their LHR slots on more lucrative services than IOM etc

I realise that in the current situation. But what I originally meant (hyperthetically!!) was if Heathrow had hundreds of slots available for BOTH long-haul lucrative routes AND regional routes for an airline such as BA, whereby connections could be made worldwide, from destinations such as Carlisle, Jersey, Sheffield etc.
 
planesarecool
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 25):
I realise that in the current situation. But what I originally meant (hyperthetically!!) was if Heathrow had hundreds of slots available for BOTH long-haul lucrative routes AND regional routes for an airline such as BA, whereby connections could be made worldwide, from destinations such as Carlisle, Jersey, Sheffield etc.

It's going to be a very long time before Heathrow has 'hundreds' of slots available, hopefully by which time we'll have a decent enough rail system to make all domestic flights, or at least those within England and Scotland inviable.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
you do know they are called London Airways!!!

 Yeah sure
 
vfw614
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:11 pm

If BA are able to fill their longhaul flights from LHR locally and cannot add any additional long-haul capacity at LHR, they would be stupid to look for regional services that generate connecting traffic. As these feeder flights are usually sold with a very modest mark-up to the nonstop long-haul fare from the hub airport, they are nice for the pax but not terribly exciting for an airline. This is particularly true if the addition of such regional flights could only happen at the expense of long-haul flights, given the existing slot cap at LHR.
 
Humberside
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 21):
The only reason they wouldn't be able to make BFS work, is because bmi already operate 8 flights a day to BHD.

I dont see the same situation at EDI or GLA so Im not so sure on your reasoning on that one

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 21):
If Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey can work from Gatwick, Im sure they would be able to work from Heathrow, if they transferred the flights over!

Would they work - yes
Are they going to do it - No (for the reasons already stated)

I dont doubt regional UK-LHR services will work and I would love to see them back again, especially from HUY, but realistically it isn't going to happen as there will alwys be more profitable uses for LHR slots. The 3rd runway might allow for some extra flights but not many as I imagine short haul flights will just move from the existing runways to allow new long haul flights

And I just cant see BA adding new UK Regions-LHR flights. bmi maybe but not BA. BA have cut back over recent years (BFS) while bmi have grown (ABZ, INV).
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8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 28):
Quoting 8herveg (Reply 21):
The only reason they wouldn't be able to make BFS work, is because bmi already operate 8 flights a day to BHD.

I dont see the same situation at EDI or GLA so Im not so sure on your reasoning on that one

GLA and EDI are a much larger market than BFS or BHD hence more flights to London.
 
Humberside
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 29):
GLA and EDI are a much larger market than BFS or BHD hence more flights to London.

I dont think Belfast-LON is that much smaller when you take into account that the train is an alternative between Edinburgh/Glasgow and London
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8herveg
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RE: Why Did BA Cease LGW-NQY/PLY Services?

Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:41 am

I think if demand was as high as BA's 5 primary UK routes ex. Heathrow (GLA, EDI, ABZ, MAN, NCL), then BA would fly it. Obviously 8 flights a day from bmi is enough to serve Heathrow.

Other than that it is FlyBE and EasyJet who fly the LON - Belfast route.