rootsair
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Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:21 pm

The 77W seems to have quite a lot of success. I wondered if any USairline is interested by acquiring them at short or mid term!

For example, UA hasn't replaced their 747-200's with an aircraft of similar capacity and I'm amazed they haven't chosen the 77W yet(perhaps because they were chap 11?).

Anyways, what are the chances to see a US based carrier order the 77W?

thanks

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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:42 pm

Cant see it. It would slot in nicely at CO, and I suspect if it wasnt GE90-powered it would have found a home at AA and UA already (financial stresses notwithstanding). DL i dont think will, although they have GE90-powered 777NG bird on order.

I think its down to the US's consumer and their love of frequencies.
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American 767
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:09 am

I'm not sure American would be interested in it because they don't need an aircraft with such a large capacity, the CASM may be slightly lower but they (AA) would have a difficult time filling all of them out so the load factor wouldn't be that high. The only route I see it would be profitable for them is JFK-LHR.

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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 2):
I'm not sure American would be interested in it because they don't need an aircraft with such a large capacity, the CASM may be slightly lower but they (AA) would have a difficult time filling all of them out so the load factor wouldn't be that high. The only route I see it would be profitable for them is JFK-LHR.

I think they would fill it year round SJO-NRT, and also LAX-NRT. Not many of the LHR runs justify anything bigger but LGW-DFW might.
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I think they would fill it year round SJO-NRT

AA doesn't fly from Costa Rica to Japan  Wink . And their SJC-NRT has also been dropped last I heard.

Anyway, as far as 77Ws for US carriers go, IMHO, that will happen one day, but not so soon. CO I doubt, they are focused on 757/767/787-sized planes, AA is too conservative to go beyond the 772, same for DL and US is too small to begin with. I could primarily see them at UA once they have some more money on the safe side, and very long term, perhaps at NW once they start converting their 744s to 744Fs as 742F replacements.
 
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
And their SJC-NRT has also been dropped last I heard.

They dropped it about 2 montsh ago. Jacobin777 went to see the last AA MASSIVE (777) take of from SJC to NRT.
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Stitch
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
For example, UA hasn't replaced their 747-200's with an aircraft of similar capacity and I'm amazed they haven't chosen the 77W yet(perhaps because they were chap 11?).

UA replaced their 742s with 744s.

UA may take the 77W, however their new contracts bring 744 crew costs down to 772 levels and the leases have been re-negotiated, as well, so the 744s are somewhat of a "bargain" for UA right now, and the high loads helps the revenue side of the equation.
 
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:43 am

My money would be on NW. They want to replace their 742s and I'm not convinced they'd go for Airbus.
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FlyHoss
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Cant see it. It would slot in nicely at CO, and I suspect if it wasnt GE90-powered it would have found a home at AA and UA already (financial stresses notwithstanding). DL i dont think will, although they have GE90-powered 777NG bird on order.

I think its down to the US's consumer and their love of frequencies.

That's pretty well said.

I do believe that CO could successfully replace the twice daily 772s from EWR to TLV with 773ERs. However, I think that CO management is afraid of being "stuck" with aircraft that are too large for any other current market (in the event that TLV traffic drops off). If some other markets grow to that support level, then maybe CO will order a small number of 773s.

[Edited 2006-12-15 18:11:51]
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Cubsrule
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:43 am

There are certainly routes UA flies where the 77W would be appropriate. ORD-HKG, which has been making a fuel stop at ANC quite a lot of late, comes to mind. The problem is the engines, in that the lack of commonality with the 772 fleet makes it much less financially attractive to have a small subfleet of 77Ws, and there really are not that many routes on which UA could use them. In terms of replacement of 744s, while UA does have an older 744 fleet than, say, NW, the birds still have plenty of life left in them, and has been rightly pointed out above, costs of 744 operation are very attractive because of the labor situation.

In terms of NW, the 744 fleet is quite young, so there's no need to think about replacing those, and I think as the 787s arrive we'll see their Asia services go through much of the same transition that Europe already has, from capacity to frequency. The 77W is certainly not too big for NW given past history, but they seem to be moving away from the huge aircraft as smaller birds with acceptable ranges become available.
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bmacleod
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 7):
My money would be on NW. They want to replace their 742s and I'm not convinced they'd go for Airbus.

I thought NW retired their 742s.  confused 

The 77W would be an ideal replacement for older 744s, yes those first (1989 rollout) 744s must be feeling their age...
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Motorhussy
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:32 am

NW and UA would be my bets; to replace some of their 744's on underperforming routes and grow a few ones currently using 772's (in the case of UA).

IMHO
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Stitch
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
I thought NW retired their 742s.  Confused

They still have a few of them lurking about. I believe they mostly serve HNL, but I'm not an NW patron so...  Smile
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
They still have a few of them lurking about. I believe they mostly serve HNL, but I'm not an NW patron so...

742s still fly NW 75/76 (NRT-SPN-NRT) as well as NW 73/74 (NRT-GUM-NRT)
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jfk777
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:16 am

It is only a matter of time USA airlines replace buy 773ER's. AA & DL may buy it for size and newer long routes, India for example. Some may follow the example from Asia and buy expand their fleets as Cathay & Singapore have done or as 744 replacements as ANA & JAL did. Air France has great success with 773ER. British Airways will likely buy it for fleet expansion too. Given all the USA 777 operators, the new second generation 777's will have huge use from them.
 
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
In terms of NW, the 744 fleet is quite young, so there's no need to think about replacing those

NW was the first 747-400 operator in February 1989, so some of them aren't that young...almost 18 years. Of course, for NW that's barely out of infancy!

Photos of the first 747-400 delivered. It's old enough that it's already had 3 liveries.


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Cubsrule
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
NW was the first 747-400 operator in February 1989, so some of them aren't that young...almost 18 years.

Oh, certainly not, but they also have 744s that were delivered in 2002.

What I should have said (which is different from what I did say) is that they have some very young 744s, not that the fleet as a whole is young-- though as you point out, by their standards, it has not yet left infancy.

[Edited 2006-12-15 20:39:28]
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RE: Will Any US Airline Order The 777-300ER?

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:39 am

It might not be immediate for USA carriers, but the 773ER could be used for India and China expansion fairly easily since US based carriers are quite anxious to get in at the ground level with those two emerging economic markets, and the 773ER fits that bill. The 772LR will be increasingly used for the longest distance destinations to Australia and South Africa in particular, and the 772ER will likely fit in well with South American destinations in Brazil, Chile and Argentina. The 777 air frame is the higher passenger capacity, where as the 787 will eventually render the 767s obsolete.
I think there will likely be a third generation 777 in a few years and have a lot of 787 technology built into it as the 764ER did just that with many 777 features built in. I do see U.S. carriers (UA & NW) eventually dropping the 744s and any older 747 models in a short time.
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