Qantas744er
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:36 am

DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:52 am

Chack out what i found on www.planepictures.net

A condor 757-300 taking off in Malta with the F/O's window open!!
And I know that this in no way is legal!

http://flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=566294

Cheers Leo
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:00 am

Windows are to be closed and locked before the crew begins take-off, but if the window comes open, Boeing training procedures are to continue the take-off.

There is nothing mechanically wrong with the airplane, and its more dangerous to abort a take-off at high speed than it is to leave a cockpit window open. Once the crew is airborne, they can divert their attention to the window. The nose deflects air around the side windscreens, so other than some noise, they are able to function just fine.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2013
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):
There is nothing mechanically wrong with the airplane, and its more dangerous to abort a take-off at high speed than it is to leave a cockpit window open. Once the crew is airborne, they can divert their attention to the window. The nose deflects air around the side windscreens, so other than some noise, they are able to function just fine.

at which altitude they could close the window at the earliest do you think?
 
Jetfixr757
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:16 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):

I have known guys to fly big jets from MIA to FLL with the cockpit windows open, surprisingly enough, the air just rushes around the windows and doesn't actually blow you away getting inside, so it will be alot louder but as far as danger is concerned, very little, obviously the aircraft will not pressurize, but once airborne they can close the window quite easily.
Jet
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 2):
at which altitude they could close the window at the earliest do you think?

I have no idea of a specific FL, but they would likely take care of the window ASAP once they have taken off.

There's a video showing a clip from a Boeing training video where the exact scenario above takes place. I searched for it on YouTube, but the only clips I could find were dubbed over with Regge music and lame comments in Spanish or Portuguese  Yeah sure
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:58 am

Well, if they were taking off from TUS, PHX, LAS, or a similar desert city in the summer, I could definitely understand.  hot   melting 
I love ASO!
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 2):
at which altitude they could close the window at the earliest do you think?

I'd think that once they reduce from takeoff power to climb power, one pilot would fly and the other would shut the window. That's generally at about 1000' to 1500' AGL, but can very by airport and airline.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 460
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:11 am

did they delete that picture or why can I not access it?
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:17 am

Does that cause a significant pressure problem compared to taking off unpressurized? Is the plane fully pressurized at the end of the takeoff roll?
 
UAL747
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:29 am

Bild ID existiert nicht.
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 9):
Bild ID existiert nicht.

Habe ich auch gerade bemerkt.

I'm curious why it was deleted, such a pic would cause a boatload of hits, I hope to see it here on A.net.

Patrick

[Edited for typo]

[Edited 2006-12-16 01:37:58]
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 8):
Does that cause a significant pressure problem compared to taking off unpressurized? Is the plane fully pressurized at the end of the takeoff roll?

I'd imagine it would be similar to having an outflow valve stuck open, so the plane wouldn't be able to pressurize until it was closed, but other than that it shouldn't be a big problem, considering that as long as they got it closed before 7000', the cabin altitude would still be climbing after that point. Though the longer they left it open the more ear-popping there would be in the back.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
pygmalion
Posts: 818
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:32 am

It does get harder to close the faster the airplane goes but the positive differential pressure helps you close it. So as long as you begin to close it early, the increasing cabin pressure will actually help you close it. In testing it is actually not that hard to just turn the window crank and close it.
 
jamesjimlb
Posts: 940
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:48 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:49 pm

that website did not work i checked for condor 757-300 but nothing showed up, but some my travel airways pics.
The sky is no longer the limit, but the mere minimum
 
N353SK
Posts: 834
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 2):
at which altitude they could close the window at the earliest do you think?

I would think the best time to close it would be right when the plane rotates, as that is the time when the most airflow is diverted from the windscreen.
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 14):

I would think the best time to close it would be right when the plane rotates, as that is the time when the most airflow is diverted from the windscreen.

That would actually be the worst time. If a window pops open there is no danger however the pilots need to fly the plane first, stabilize the situation and lastly close the window.
 
jogales
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:11 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:09 pm

jetphotos.net has a couple of closeups. Interestingly enough, two different DE 753's took off with the window open on the same day. The captions say that they are training flights, perhaps it was part of the training. I would link to the photos, but...


Josh
-
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8655
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 14):
I would think the best time to close it would be right when the plane rotates, as that is the time when the most airflow is diverted from the windscreen.

The nose diverts air around the side windows no matter what. Even after the plane is airborne, surprisingly little wind is felt inside the cockpit.

Granted, it's noisy as hell and the aircraft can't pressurize, but the crew isn't subject to tornado force winds or anything.
 
MD88Captain
Posts: 1224
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:37 pm

It is no big deal. No problem at all.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29929
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:29 pm

The link is not working.
The Sound on Engine start would have alerted the crew that the Window was open.
Suprising.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
BCNGRO
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:47 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:18 pm



 Wink
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
User avatar
jorge1812
Posts: 2911
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:32 pm

Nobody saved this pic?

georg
 
abletofly
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:04 pm

I really want to see that picture, but I can't find it?!

AbleToFly
 
EXC47
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:36 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 7):
did they delete that picture or why can I not access it?

I believe it was deleted...
 Sad
 
toolman
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:06 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:26 pm

the comment says, it was a training flight. they do this to simulate crosswind take offs.
 
airbusA346
Posts: 7284
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:05 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Toolman (Reply 25):

How can having a window open represent a crosswind take off??

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
moek2000
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:37 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:43 pm

He just wanted some "fresh air" that's all...
 
Lumus
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:48 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:45 pm

This may sound dumb, but why would the plane be full of pax on a training flight?
 
BCNGRO
Posts: 576
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:47 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:11 am

lol I wouldn't like to fly at FL400 like that...

[Edited 2006-12-16 16:11:48]
At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting Lumus (Reply 28):
This may sound dumb, but why would the plane be full of pax on a training flight?

What makes you think it was full of passengers...?? I see empty seats
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
legoguy
Posts: 2972
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Lumus (Reply 28):
This may sound dumb, but why would the plane be full of pax on a training flight?

I think in the third picture, what you think are passengers, are actually just seats  Smile
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
toolman
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:06 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 26):

because there is a bigger resistance on one side of the plane.
 
wingnut135
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:17 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:52 am

On most heavy aircraft the window is cranked open and closed, as well as on the 753. You can see the crank in this pic, just under the window, to the right of the yoke.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0526158/L/

That would give the pilot/FO mechanical advantage against the wind to get the window closed. Would definately make it difficult to hear anything on the flight deck.

But I too would like to know why they do it.

Wingnut
A good friend will get you out of jail. A real friend will be there with you saying, "Damn that was fun!"
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:54 am




Quoting Toolman (Reply 32):
because there is a bigger resistance on one side of the plane.

An open window would not produce even a remotely accurate representation of a crosswind takeoff.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
larspl
Posts: 351
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RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:06 am

it is not illegal to fly with an open window. you just cant pressurize the aircraft.
it does not reflect a crosswind takeoff.
just to correct some comments made here.

and people.. since there are so many people reading with us with less knowledge of aviation then a proffesional..

if you want to make comments about legality or think professionals did something wrong in a picture.. please back it up with "why this is wrong/illegal" so everybody can see it is a rightfull comment. or just post what you think as a question so that professionals can elaborrate.
facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
 
DavidT
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:31 am

There is a Boeing training video availble on the net somewhere that discusses exactly this. It shows a takeoff with an open window on a 737,75/67, 747 and 777 - and how to close it once airbourne.
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Toolman (Reply 25):
the comment says, it was a training flight. they do this to simulate crosswind take offs.

Actually, to simulate crosswind takeoffs, you find a windy day.
 
EWS
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:41 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 37):
Actually, to simulate crosswind takeoffs, you find a windy day.

 rotf  No shit sherlock!
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting EWS (Reply 38):
rotf No shit sherlock!

I must have forgotten the [/sarcasm] tag. seeing as you took me literally  Smile
 
AmericanAirFan
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:22 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:29 am

Maybe it's just an illusion but it looks like in this picture the Captain's Window is slightly open.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1094589/L/

Interesting pictures though.

-AmericanAirFan
"American 1881 Cleared For Takeoff One Seven Left"
 
cubastar
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:48 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:45 am

Actually, it is not a big deal. The DC9, MD80, 727series and I suspect the 757 series all have sliding windows, manual or otherwise. Many times in the summer the cockpit could become quite warm and we would open the windows on taxi (in or out). Also, nice cool spring days it was nice to open the windows and taxi in or out at the smaller airports (i.e. Bluegrass at LEX)and enjoy the scenery. If the air packs are on when closing the window, it actually acts in the same way as an outflow valve. You just close it slowly so that there is no pressurization bump and nobody's ears notice the difference. If left open on takeoff I suspect that it would become increasingly noisy but should present no problem.....just close it slowly when COMFORTABLY airborne; certainly NOT when rotating or at any critical phase of the takeoff/climb.
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:46 am

My post with the link to the photos on another site was deleted, but the registration is D-ABOK, it's a B753, it happened in LMML on December 13, 2006 - that should be more than enough info to find it without me posting a link again... even though I still can't find anything in the forum rules that would let me know that I must not link to that other site.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
maddy
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:45 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:20 am

 
pillowtester
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:44 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:06 am

What a weird choice of music, I would have rather heard the captain shouting or whatever was happening in that video.
...said Dan jubilantly.
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting AmericanAirFan (Reply 39):
Maybe it's just an illusion but it looks like in this picture the Captain's Window is slightly open.

It's a sun-shade across the window. It's not open.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:01 am

That window looked open to me
 
RyDawg82
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 am

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:57 pm

For those wishing to have a better explanation of what's going on in that video, check this out;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_87KqdX7PE

Goes into detail why N737X is flying around with an open window...All without the bad music selection.

Enjoy,
Ryan
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29929
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: DE 757-300 Takes Off With Open Window!

Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:09 pm

Quoting Toolman (Reply 24):
the comment says, it was a training flight. they do this to simulate crosswind take offs.

Whats the logic.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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