lostturttle
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"naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:39 am

A Boeing 737 Next Generation registration VP-BNZ (BBJ?) made a brief refueling stop in Bermuda. The only info I could find was first flight date 10/08/2006, with delivery made 22/08/2006.
Also VP-B** means the aircraft is registered in Bermuda.

First time I have ever seen a "naked" 737

My guess is, it is just as bare inside as much as it is outside!

what kind of coating is applied over the bare aluminum?

also note a strange coating on part of the fin as well


http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9805/new737tdeliverynopaint1rq1.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1346/boeing737nextgen1ut2.jpg
 
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viasa
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:49 am

It's the B737-7HDBBJ (MSN 35959/2029) of Dennis Vanguard Intl.
 
A340Spotter
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:03 am

Likely flown there from Georgetown, DE where a lot of the BBJ mods are done, clearing customs in Bermuda for tax purposes much like the Boeings do out of Seattle by going to Abbotsford, Canada, or above Canadian airspace.

Nice to see Boeing continuing to place the line number and the Boeing customer code onboard the airplane *YG097*...

JSD
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
474218
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting Lostturttle (Thread starter):
what kind of coating is applied over the bare aluminum?

That green on the aluminum surfaces is a protective plastic coating that is sprayed on to protect the aluminum from scratches during the manufacturing process. It will be peeled or washed off prior to application of the final livery.
 
lostturttle
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):

That green on the aluminum surfaces is a protective plastic coating that is sprayed on to protect the aluminum from scratches during the manufacturing process. It will be peeled or washed off prior to application of the final livery.

Thanks 474218, kinda looked like green "shrinkrap"
 
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RobK
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting Lostturttle (Thread starter):
A Boeing 737 Next Generation registration VP-BNZ (BBJ?) made a brief refueling stop in Bermuda. The only info I could find was first flight date 10/08/2006, with delivery made 22/08/2006.
Also VP-B** means the aircraft is registered in Bermuda.

First time I have ever seen a "naked" 737

My guess is, it is just as bare inside as much as it is outside!

Thanks for posting this info and pics! I had seen the report that it had ferried Sussex County-Bermuda-Birmingham(UK) but had not heard anything of a colour scheme so I'm glad to see someone's seen it and it's still a greenie!

It's been at Sussex County since 24 August this year for fuel tank mods (all the BBJs have this done before entering service) so that's an unusually long time as the process usually takes about a month, thereabouts. Considering the time scale it's been there it might have had the interior fitted there too.

I hope you don't mind me using your two pics on my Boeing deliveries site, with due credit - http://www.seattle-deliveries.com/latest.htm - let me know if so and I shall be happy to remove them.  spin 

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):
That green on the aluminum surfaces is a protective plastic coating that is sprayed on to protect the aluminum from scratches during the manufacturing process. It will be peeled or washed off prior to application of the final livery.

That's interesting! I didn't know that. I thought is was a green primer, like a spray, but apparently not. I shall have to stop referring to them as being seen "in green primer" from now on I guess!

Can you comment on what exactly the "corrugated cardboard" is that's stuck diagonally to the fin? I've always wondered what it is and what purpose it serves. It does indeed look like a giant piece of cardboard from a distance.


Rob
 
lostturttle
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:45 pm

Thanks for the info,

Quoting RobK (Reply 5):
I hope you don't mind me using your two pics on my Boeing deliveries site, with due credit - http://www.seattle-deliveries.com/latest.htm - let me know if so and I shall be happy to remove them. spin

not a problem, more if you need them, just wish the quality was a little better.

Quoting RobK (Reply 5):

Can you comment on what exactly the "corrugated cardboard" is that's stuck diagonally to the fin? I've always wondered what it is and what purpose it serves. It does indeed look like a giant piece of cardboard from a distance.

I also am wondering about the "stuff" on the tail
 
LimaNiner
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:03 pm

Beautiful color scheme -- my favorite livery ever!  Wink
 
474218
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Lostturttle (Reply 6):
I also am wondering about the "stuff" on the tail

If you mean the green/brown area thats primer, same as Airbus uses on their entire fuselage.
 
jetstar
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:35 am

Unlike B-737’s for airline use that are delivered complete with paint, interior and avionics, BBJ’s are delivered in what is known in the industry as a green airplane, with no interior, paint and basic avionics. From the factory they are flown first to Georgetown for the additional fuel tanks in the belly and then are flown to the various outfitters for interior and paint, Boeing does not do any corporate interiors but all the BBJ completion centers have to be approved by Boeing for new aircraft. Some outfitting is done in Europe so from this picture I would assume the airplane is being ferried to Europe for completion and has a Bermuda registration for tax purposes, like Donald Trumps B-727, which is registered in Bermuda although based at LaGuardia.

At one time almost all corporate jets were delivered in their green zinc chromate primer to the completion center, so this is where the term green airplane came from. Drive past Gulfstreams facility in Savannah GA and you can see some of these green airplanes on the ramp being flight tested. Today almost all the biz jet manufacturers do their own interior and paint so you would hardly see a green biz jet anymore other than at their production facility. One of the largest biz jet manufacturers Dassault with their Falcon Jets, you cannot buy a green airplane from them. All Falcon jets are built in France and flown green to Little Rock Arkansas for interior and paint and you have to use their facility for the initial interior and paint.

Because some airlines like AA polish their airplanes instead of painting them, Boeing does not use zinc chromate primer but uses a protective finish during manufacture to protect the surface. With the zinc chromate primer applied on a corporate jet, it is not removed for painting but is lightly sanded and becomes the base coat for the paint. When repainting they either sand the airplane down to the primer and repaint or totally strip down to bare metal and start over.
 
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RobK
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:47 am

Interesting. It's only been this past year or so that the new Boeing's have been green. Previous to that they just used to be silver primer/bare metal.

R
 
columbia107
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:59 am

Nice picture.

Were you told off by the airport security people?

They have lately been hassling me quite a bit when taking photographs near the west end of the terminal next to the round-about. This despite the fact that I was standing on public ground.


Being a British dependent territory, I assume that the same law applies in Bermuda as the UK. At least in matters pertaining to security. If so, does it mean that the hundreds of photographers normally found around Heathrow and Gatwick, to name but two airports, are also breaking the law?

I would indeed be surprised to get to know that is the case.
In God we trust
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 9):
Because some airlines like AA polish their airplanes instead of painting them,

They do?? I thought they put some kind of shiny coat on their jets!
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
lostturttle
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 9):
Unlike B-737’s for airline use that are delivered complete with paint, interior and avionics, BBJ’s are delivered in what is known in the industry as a green airplane

Thanks for the added information, still not something one in Bermuda sees everyday.
 
kmh1956
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Lostturttle (Thread starter):
A Boeing 737 Next Generation registration VP-BNZ (BBJ?) made a brief refueling stop in Bermuda.

By saying 'brief refueling stop' I'm guessing that it's already left? If so, bummer. I'd have liked to see it tomorrow. Hey, another Onion!!! yes?

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 11):
Were you told off by the airport security people?

They have lately been hassling me quite a bit when taking photographs near the west end of the terminal next to the round-about. This despite the fact that I was standing on public ground.

My daughter and I go down all the time to take pics and I've yet to be hassled. I did get asked to shift the car once when we were at the east end right at the end of the runway, but he only said we had to move out of that particular spot as the area is marked off. So we moved about 20 feet and he was happy.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
lostturttle
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 14):
another Onion

Yes I am!

Also she was gone by early afternoon, not sure about the time though.

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 11):

Were you told off by the airport security people?

No, like kmh1956 said, if you get too close to the fence in line with the lights security might ask you to move.
 
kmh1956
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Lostturttle (Reply 15):
Yes I am!

Born, bed and edumacated? Cool! There aren't too many here.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
dz09
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 9):
At one time almost all corporate jets were delivered in their green zinc chromate primer to the completion center

I think Chromate primer applies to steel with in this case is a rust inhibitor to protect against corrosion. For painted aluminum, a wash primer (self etching primer) is first applied to improve paint adhesion to bare aluminum surfaces. The green stuff is rather a plastic film for protection against scratches and to keep the surface clean prior to painting. The brown stuff is usually a yellow wash primer.
 
jetstar
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 10):
Interesting. It's only been this past year or so that the new Boeing's have been green. Previous to that they just used to be silver primer/bare metal.

Boeing has been delivering all their BBJ’s with this green protection film on them ever since the BBJ program started. They have also delivered some other airliners that from the beginning were to be used for VIP service to the outfitters with the same green protective film applied, including 747’s.

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 12):
Quoting Jetstar (Reply 9):
Because some airlines like AA polish their airplanes instead of painting them,

They do?? I thought they put some kind of shiny coat on their jets!

AA with the exception at one time of the A-300 never has painted their airplanes, all the stripes and markings are decals. When the airplane comes in for heavy maintenance, these decals are removed and replaced. AA has a crew that does nothing but polish airplanes at night. There is a limit on how much polishing can be done because polishing removes does remove a micro thin amount of aluminum, I think the limit is once a year. There has always been a debate as to the pros and cons of polishing instead of painting, less weight and cost savings as opposed to better skin protection with paint.

When I went through Lockheed JetStar maintenance training, which at that time was done by Lockheed in Mariatta GA, I saw 3 JetStars sitting outside a small hanger in just the green zinc chromate primer. I was told that these were owned by Howard Hughes, who in addition to these 3 had 2 more inside the hanger. He never used them, they were stored like this from the time they were built until his death. His company eventually sold them and they were all immediately converted to the TFE 731 fan engines. I heard that there was no corrosion under the zinc chromate primer, even sitting outside in the Georgia humidity for over 10 years.

In my A&P days, anytime we made a bracket or something else out of aluminum, we would spray zinc chromate on the piece for corrosion protection. This primer comes in standard aerosol spray cans. I still use it on my own airplane.

When I stripped and repainted the control surfaces on my Cessna 150, after removing the paint I used Alodine to neutralize the corrosion, Alumiprep which is an etch or wash primer for better paint adhesion and then applied the base coat and then the top coat of paint. I also had to remove some of the skins above the flaps for some interior surface corrosion, I did the same process, but instead of painting the inner surfaces, I sprayed them with zinc chromate for corrosion protection. On a lot of airplanes, the zinc chromate is epoxy based for better adhesion to the metal.

Airbus aircraft also use a chromate primer because their aluminum skins are not designed for polishing. This is why AA had to paint their A-300’s instead of polishing them, now I understand they do polish the bare aluminum skins on the A-300’s
 
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RobK
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 18):
Boeing has been delivering all their BBJ’s with this green protection film on them ever since the BBJ program started.

With due respect, you're wrong.

Allow me to illustrate 3 of a number of examples if I may :

5N-FGT Nigerian AF BBJ at BFI 29 Jun 05

N363BJ Aussie AF BBJ at BFI 14 Jun 06

N852AK (now VP-CSK) private BBJ2 departing RNT on first flight 20 Oct 05


 confused 

R
 
jetstar
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 19):
With due respect, you're wrong.

Allow me to illustrate 3 of a number of examples if I may :

5N-FGT Nigerian AF BBJ at BFI 29 Jun 05

N363BJ Aussie AF BBJ at BFI 14 Jun 06

N852AK (now VP-CSK) private BBJ2 departing RNT on first flight 20 Oct 05

In all the pictures you posted, each airplane still has a slight amount of the green protective primer on the airframe. In the background of the third picture there is a B-737 with its protective primer still on it.

It’s possible that it depends on where the airplane is ferried to for completion, the owner can have Boeing remove the primer. There are some completion centers on the west coast of the US for the BBJ’s so it is just a short ferry flight there.
 
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RobK
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 20):
In all the pictures you posted, each airplane still has a slight amount of the green protective primer on the airframe. In the background of the third picture there is a B-737 with its protective primer still on it.

You must have xray vision then because I can't see any. The end of October last year was about the time when they started coming out in green film. If you look on myaviation.net for RNT and BFI 737 pics prior to this date you'll see that none of them for the first 3 quarters of 2005 were greenies, they were just in bare metal/silver primer. Like I said earlier, it's only been this past 12 months or so that the green film has been used on the 737s - BBJs and normal ones.

R
 
airbusA346
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RE: "naked" 737 In Bermuda

Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 18):
including 747’s.

Images please??

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).