YYCowboy
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Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:38 am

Today's Calgary Sun (Saturday Dec. 16th) reports from the Mayor, (as he was schmoozing BA's CEO) that the city is on the cusp of attracting other major airlines. The city is working "with one or two other carriers on the other side of the world" interested in flying direct to YYC. He did not disclose any other information, other than "its in the works", but "might take awhile".

I wonder if this is a result of "Blue Skies", or people need an option to avoid YYZ, YVR, YUL. I find YYC to be a very user friendly airport, and not astronomically huge.

I stand firm in my belief that West Jet is in a terrific position to be a feeder for many international carriers, provided their new reservation system will support this kind of transaction.

787's might be a perfect fit for YYC from all over the map.

I speculate an Asian carrier and another European one.

Sorry I cannot provide a link, as I'm reading it in the paper.
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777FlyGuy
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:45 am

Any truth to the rumored BA/WS linkup? YYC is a great city and has a very nice modern and efficient airport. I always look forward to my visits there.
 
IAD380
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:18 am

I could see KL and LH flying to YYC. I think that both airlines flew there in the past. If AF starts flying to western Canada, I assume that they would choose YVR over YYC. AC probably would be the first airline to start scheduled flights to other European destinations, if the demand exists.

From Asia, I think that AC would be the first airline to start scheduled flights to YYC. In my opinion, KE or CX would be the first foreign airlines to fly from their respective hubs to YYC. However, I don't think scheduled flights between YYC and Asia will start anytime soon.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:20 am

Some of my sources at DL indicate that one of the four daily flights to SLC will be upgraded to a 738 mainline during 2007 from the CRJ OO service at the present. It will be nice to see DL mainline at YYC increase from the single ATL flight they currently get.
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777FlyGuy
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
could see KL and LH flying to YYC.

IIRC, KL flew to YYC in the 80's or early 90's with DC10's. LH with the Star Alliance connection would make a good fit.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
I could see KL and LH flying to YYC.

I don't think it would be LH. LH revenue shares with AC on the AC flights to Germany.

As far as Asia is concerned I think if (and that's a big if) it would be AC or ANA. But I'm no expert.

Kris
 
AADC10
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting YYCowboy (Thread starter):
787's might be a perfect fit for YYC from all over the map.

That seems to be a great hope for many smaller cities, but it depends on the number of passengers willing to pay a premium for a non-stop. There are probably not too many destinations from YYC that can keep a 787 filled. Also frequencies would be limited and convenient scheduling is the most important factor in selecting a flight.

Don't get me wrong, I have been to Calgary and it is a nice town and has a good airport. Unfortunately, airlines make more money by using 737s and CRJs more frequently to hubs unless there is strong demand with passengers willing to pay a premium for a specific non-hub point-to-point.
 
ilikeyyc
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 3):
It will be nice to see DL mainline at YYC increase from the single ATL flight they currently get.

That was just for the summer, it no longer operates.

Great to see that more airlines are interested in YYC. It is amazing to see the changes between now and when I first flew in there in 1997.
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DYK
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:34 am

Rumour has it KE will fly into YYC once the new Canada/Korea Bi-Lateral agreement is negotiated. I believe KLM is looking at YYC for 2088/2009.
Cant see Air France..YYC Airport Authority has Air France on there wish list?
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goldorak
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 2):
AF starts flying to western Canada, I assume that they would choose YVR over YYC



Quoting DYK (Reply 8):
Cant see Air France..YYC Airport Authority has Air France on there wish list?

At the moment, the bilateral agreement between France & Canada allows scheduled flights only to YUL and YYZ. Nothing else unfortunately
 
IAD380
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 9):
At the moment, the bilateral agreement between France & Canada allows scheduled flights only to YUL and YYZ. Nothing else unfortunately

Thank you for the information. I had assumed that the bilateral treaty allowed flights between CDG and a third (western) Canadian city, but neither AC nor AF exercised that right. I guess I was mistaken.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:45 am

Didn't AS once serve YYC at one point? Or was that QX?
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Edmonchuck
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:47 am

Both served YYC at one point...
 
Edmonchuck
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 5):


I don't think it would be LH. LH revenue shares with AC on the AC flights to Germany.

Correct. As we found out in our FRA pursuits, it will be AC to Germany. LH doesn't have the equipment for more Canadian runs. We wrote LH last year, and they still mentioned aircraft scheduling issues and equipment problems. To LH, Canada is a small, small, small, small market.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting Edmonchuck (Reply 12):
Both served YYC at one point...

Thanks, I just didn't remember because it was so long ago. I remember AC doing the SEA-YYC route with a DH8, that was a long time ago too!
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:22 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Didn't AS once serve YYC at one point?

Did they pull out? I guess I haven't seen them around lately, just QX.

Kris
 
ilikeyyc
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Didn't AS once serve YYC at one point? Or was that QX?

AS still serves YYC- once daily from SEA (flight669) and once daily from LAX (flight 699) And QX still serves YYC from SEA.
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yvr1968
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:36 am

Is the DL YYC-ATL route going to be continued in 2007? And what about YYC-DTW on NW? I don't think those are going to be operated in 2007. I read a couple of months back that YYC-IAD was to commence in May 2007, but have not seen anything since.

As for all the "major stuff." I think every airport in the world is having talks with every airline in the world. So a lot of airlines indicate interest in services but when the reality hits (markets, equipment availability, bilaterals etc etc) until there is something solid, rumours are rumours.

Unfortunately, Melbourne will have no European carriers serving Tullamarine Airport when Austrian ends its Australian links soon. Melbourne is desperately trying to replace the lost capacity (British gone earlier this year as well.) Melbourne Airport is in talks with many airlines "indicating interest."
 
EddieDude
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:41 pm

I don't know if MX would be interested in serving YYC on a regularly scheduled basis. What do you guys think?
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YYCowboy
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
I don't know if MX would be interested in serving YYC on a regularly scheduled basis. What do you guys think?

Hard to say Eddie. From a tourist standpoint, not likely, Air Canada and Air Transat have that covered. But from a buisness, ie oilpatch standpoint, maybe. Canadians just aren't to familliar with Mexican carriers, it would take quite a sales pitch.
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jimyvr
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 5):
As far as Asia is concerned I think if (and that's a big if) it would be AC or ANA.

The ex-Canadi>n days used to have one-way YYC-NRT. Chances would be AC because ANA rather flies to "healthy-yield, high profit" destinations.

Quoting DYK (Reply 8):
I believe KLM is looking at YYC for 2088/2009.
Cant see Air France.

Since the merger, it's pretty much either one will fly and the one doesn't fly will be back away from it.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
I don't know if MX would be interested in serving YYC on a regularly scheduled basis.

According to a forum I saw few weeks ago (can't remember), shortage of ground handling staff is the primary reason concerned by MX. The ground handling company who handles BA even had embarassing moment when no one show up at the career fair to handle BA flight.
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flyyul
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:34 am

Literally every airport authority puts out press releases that mention "major airlines" eyeing their respective city.

We have seen this from Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and god knows who. Not to say that Calgary is not booming, but take this with a grain of salt.
 
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BO__einG
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:29 am

I say take this with a bit more than a grain of salt.
Calgary is booming like mad right now. Business couldn't be better with the lowest office vacancy on the planet. This time around it will be the business traveller benefitting with the supported growth out of the airport.

Aeromexico is now back for winter Charters at YYC since the old.. what.. 1994 days, I thought DL had modified its schedule for year round flight from YYC-ATL. There was an news release shortly after DL's return making adjustments for the winter season with YYC being mentioned.

AS is always here now, their Salmon Thirty Salmon recently making a visit shocking many motorists because they never seen a salmon fly before. So have I!

For international sectors, I believe it will be AC first who will make that big jump for the asian market next year when the T7's come in.
Asiana already does cargo and it may bring on the mainline from my predictions. I would also see ANA or Cathay making a move to cowtown.

For European, KLM I think will come but it will be another year or two.
Air France as mentioned won't be coming here anytime soon. To be honest I dont know which of the Euro carriers will fly here, maybe Excel, TUI, or SAS.

Calgary is very much a domestic airport despite the news of BA and this, so while these happen, the domestic network will surge even more.
I hope cargo can pick up a bit more too.

Otherwise, its pretty good news out of the airport and plane spotters will be more satisfied as well as the travellers.
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Jayce
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:05 pm

Quoting YYCowboy (Thread starter):
wonder if this is a result of "Blue Skies", or people need an option to avoid YYZ, YVR, YUL. I find YYC to be a very user friendly airport, and not astronomically huge.

I don't see the need to avoid YVR. As the airport was built with the connecting traveller in mind, it has always been quite user-friendly.

Quoting 777FlyGuy (Reply 4):
IIRC, KL flew to YYC in the 80's or early 90's with DC10's.

They also had the 747-300s towards the end. I believe those operated both as AMS-YYC-YVR-YYC-AMS and AMS-YYC-AMS. I used to fly that route almost every summer when I was a kid and I remember the departures screen at AMS used to read "Calgary/Banff", so I'm pretty sure those were geared towards tourists.
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Edmonchuck
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 23):
I don't see the need to avoid YVR. As the airport was built with the connecting traveller in mind, it has always been quite user-friendly.

I agree. There is absolutely NO reason to avoid CYVR. None. Nada. Zip. Anyone who thinks that there is no more capacity at YVR does not know the capacity of that airport, nor its preferred choice for Asian flights. I know that both Alberta airports are trying to get an Asian flight (which is one of the reasons this thread started), but YVR will continue to be the main gateway to Asia from Canada. Plus, as much as the Calgarians here will try to crucify me, there is much much much more scenery and amenities and culture in Vancouver - you know, those things that attract tourists. Oh, and that ocean thing helps... 

CYYC may get an Asian flight...might. Yes it has the slots, but with the relaxing of restrictions on 08L/26R for departures combined with the expansion of the D gates at YVR, expect airlines to continue to go there and not "avoid" it per se.

I know there was a media release from Cathay a few weeks back decrying airport rents and that issue preventing more flights to places like Calgary, but don't let that fool you. Cathay is complaining more about YYZ's astronomical prices than a lack of Calgary access.

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 22):
I say take this with a bit more than a grain of salt.
Calgary is booming like mad right now. Business couldn't be better with the lowest office vacancy on the planet.

I always love this quote, like office vacancy rates directly correlate to business travel. All that means is that the current space is occupied. It means that someone is paying for the physical space, but it does not indicate bums in seats. I know of a lot of space that is rented due to a long term lease that has no one in it, and others that is kept for floor moves. With the advent of the "Bow", watch this stat fall out of the sky. Also, there are a few re-orgs in the works that will shuffle and consolidate staff, and additional mergers/acquisitions that will change this stat even more (i.e. the Royal Dutch Shell plans are more real than you think). Booms are cyclical, and office vacancy is no different. Funny, with these rates that Penny Lane and other proposals aren't being built.

I am intimately familiar with the travel policies of the major companies in Alberta, and they are still cutting back on a lot of travel. At the last ASUG meeting in Calgary, travel cutbacks were a topic of watercooler conversation. Our company is actually going through a major re-org specifically TO CUT BACK ON TRAVEL between YVR, YEG, YYZ and YUL by relocating entire departments by Director locale, mirroring our peers. We, like many others, are relying more and more on NetMeeting and other software solutions, as well as teleconferencing. We only travel when we absolutely need to.

Now, I am not saying that Calgary traffic won't grow, it will. There are tourist options and there will always be business travel. Calgary is still growing. Calgary will do well and may get Asian charters more frequently. But to think that office vacancy and/or an avoidance of Vancouver or Toronto is a reason is foolhardy.

[Edited 2006-12-19 20:59:17]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 23):
They also had the 747-300s towards the end. I believe those operated both as AMS-YYC-YVR-YYC-AMS and AMS-YYC-AMS. I used to fly that route almost every summer when I was a kid and I remember the departures screen at AMS used to read "Calgary/Banff", so I'm pretty sure those were geared towards tourists.

When KL commenced service to western Canada in the 1980s they used DC-10s AMS-YYC-YVR. That didn't last very long and YVR and YYC became stand-alone nonstops. When KL suspended service to YYC in the in the mid-1990s they were operating 747-300 combis about 3 times a week if memory correct. I think they carried a lot of cargo related to the oil industry.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:55 am

There are only 3 EU countries that can arguably support sked service to Calgary: the UK, Germany and the Netherland:
1. The UK is covered (AC/BA);
2. Germany is covered unless AC hands the YYC-FRA route to LH (I don't see enough demand for YYC-MUC);
3. That leaves KLM adding YYC-AMS with 3-5x weekly 332 service.
Nothing else is reasonable.

As for Asia, I don't see any oppty. Unless perhaps 1-2x weekly Air Japan (the ANA charter subsidiary) during ski season.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 21):
Literally every airport authority puts out press releases that mention "major airlines" eyeing their respective city.

We have seen this from Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and god knows who. Not to say that Calgary is not booming, but take this with a grain of salt.

True Marc but you can add ADM/Montreal to that list also. No Cdn airport authority has more self-promoting press releases than ADM, which is laughable given that YUL handles barely more pax in 2006 that in 1975. At least YYC airport has fast growth. If any large CDN airport other than YYZ or YVR has growth momentum and potential, it's YYC (and YYC alone).

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threepoint
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 22):
Calgary is booming like mad right now.

Calgary was booming like mad until about six months ago. While still growing, the rate of expansion has certainly begun to taper.

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 22):
For international sectors, I believe it will be AC first who will make that big jump for the asian market next year when the T7's come in.

Yes, they will. From YVR.

Quoting BO__einG (Reply 22):
Calgary is very much a domestic airport

Bingo.
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flyyul
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 27):
True Marc but you can add ADM/Montreal to that list also. No Cdn airport authority has more self-promoting press releases than ADM, which is laughable given that YUL handles barely more pax in 2006 that in 1975. At least YYC airport has fast growth. If any large CDN airport other than YYZ or YVR has growth momentum and potential, it's YYC (and YYC alone).

Really.. when is the last time we have read an ADM press release on this forum?
 
threepoint
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:28 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 28):
Quoting Threepoint (Reply 27):



Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 28):
Really.. when is the last time we have read an ADM press release on this forum?

I think you'll see that Yyz717 posted this remark, not me.
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Edmonchuck
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 27):
Quoting BO__einG (Reply 22):
For international sectors, I believe it will be AC first who will make that big jump for the asian market next year when the T7's come in.

Yes, they will. From YVR.

EEEEEEEEEEEXACTLY!
 
Edmonchuck
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RE: Major Airlines Eyeing Calgary

Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 28):
Really.. when is the last time we have read an ADM press release on this forum?

I'm with you on this one...I haven't seen one in awhile.