ASEFlyer
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WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:35 pm

Did anyone else see it in today's WSJ? It was pretty impressive, two full pages. I really hope that boeing does not get too cocky, Airbus might be a little down with investors right now, but they still make a fine product. Has it been discussed here that LH is the launch customer, I am almost surprised it wasn't an Asian carrier?
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:38 pm

Yup, LH placed an order of 20 747-8I + 20 purchase rights.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q4/061206a_nr.html

Quoting ASEFlyer (Thread starter):
I really hope that boeing does not get too cocky

Boeing is not cocky at all with 747-8I. It's just a niche market player.

Cheers,
PP
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FoxBravo
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:42 pm

Their was a full-page color ad in today's NY Times too. Even Mrs. FoxBravo commented that it was a nice-looking plane!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:24 pm

anyone nice enough to scan it?
 
PanHAM
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:34 pm

Boeing had similar ads - over 2 full pages - in major German newspapers yesterday.

Earlier this year, they had the same ad campagne - the 747-8 in Boeing house colours of course - which prompted me to write here and in another forum that LH will buy. Many did not agree then.
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sq212
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 3):
anyone nice enough to scan it?

Don't know how to paste it here. Just click the link:

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4401/764/1600/475779/LH748_lg.jpg

Cheers
 
fspilot747
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:53 pm

link doesn't work.



filler
filler
 
Feroze
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 6):
link doesn't work.

It does for me, but I'll put it here.
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4401/764/1600/475779/LH748_lg.jpg
 
GBan
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:05 pm

Quoting Feroze (Reply 7):
It does for me, but I'll put it here.

Doesn't work either for me  crying 
 
Feroze
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:08 pm

OK, this should work:
http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...6791&filename=1166515163E7M9mN.jpg

[Edited 2006-12-19 09:12:10]
 
columba
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
Earlier this year, they had the same ad campagne - the 747-8 in Boeing house colours of course - which prompted me to write here and in another forum that LH will buy. Many did not agree then.

They have revolving adds in every monthly aviation magazine and news magazines. Sometimes it is the 787, the 777 or the 747-8.
Nice to see they have changed the 747-8 add with one in LH colors. Would not mind to see an add with the 787 in TUI colors soon..... Smile
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PanHAM
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:31 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
They have revolving adds in every monthly aviation magazine and news magazines. Sometimes it is the 787, the 777 or the 747-8

yes, but I was referring to the ads in FAZ, WELT etc. which is rather uncommon unless a major Gernan airline seriously thinks about, or has decided to buy some.
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BandA
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:45 pm

what a beautiful aircraft!
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
columba
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
yes, but I was referring to the ads in FAZ, WELT etc. which is rather uncommon unless a major Gernan airline seriously thinks about, or has decided to buy some.

I have seen these adds also in Spiegel, Focus, Stern etc. and always thought that this has to be seen in connection with the upcoming LH order since these were aircraft in which only Lufthansa could have interest in especially the 777F and 747-8.
Recently I have seen mostly adds for the 777F btw.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
A342
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:28 pm

Sueddeutsche Zeitung also had such an ad yesterday, a whole page.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
n844aa
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:23 pm

There was a really attractive ad for the plane in this week's issue of AW&ST. I'll take a look in the WSJ as well when I grab it on my way out the door.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
parapente
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:46 pm

I understand that LH has gone for the "Max" seating option by putting the Galley(s) in the Crown of the aircraft ,I assume the crew quarters as well. Has anyone seen a technical layout for this?
 
coolfeet77
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:08 pm

The ad also appeared in the Washington Post and the Financial Times yesterday, Monday, 18 Dec 2006.
 
Thorben
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:35 pm

Looks exactly like an LH 744, only the wing is a little different.
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leelaw
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:42 pm

http://www.airliners.net/uf/536886791/1166515163E7M9mN.jpg

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):
Looks exactly like an LH 744, only the wing is a little different.

Isn't the "hunchback" as you like to call it noticeably longer on the 748i as well?

[Edited 2006-12-19 14:48:41]
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A342
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 18):
Looks exactly like an LH 744, only the wing is a little different.

The engines are different, and the upper deck is longer. Yes, I know the fuselage is longer, too, but that can't be seen very good here.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:30 pm

It looks really nice ! I can´t wait until it comes ...
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Stitch
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:34 pm

Boeing ran it in the Seattle Times a day or so back. Nice ad.
 
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flylku
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Parapente (Reply 16):
I understand that LH has gone for the "Max" seating option by putting the Galley(s) in the Crown of the aircraft ,I assume the crew quarters as well. Has anyone seen a technical layout for this?

Could you elaborate on this? Are you suggesting that what Boeing was calling the "loft" [I think] where sleeper berths were proposed might be a galley on the LH -8's? I was wondering what they might do with that space, if anything, and if so would it result in a range penalty?

Also, to the thread starter's concern about Boeing getting cocky. Trust me, the people at Boeing have nothing but respect for the capabilities and resilience of their able competitors at Airbus.
...are we there yet?
 
jimyvr
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:24 am

Hopefully same appears on Flight International magazine...
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Stitch
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting FlyLKU (Reply 23):
Could you elaborate on this? Are you suggesting that what Boeing was calling the "loft" [I think] where sleeper berths were proposed might be a galley on the LH -8's? I was wondering what they might do with that space, if anything, and if so would it result in a range penalty?

Boeing has proposed moving the galley and crew rest areas above the main cabin to open up an extra dozen or so seats on the main deck. LH has evidently taken them up on this option.
 
masseybrown
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:42 am

I got a laugh from the comment of Lufthansa SVP Nico Bucholz on the 747-8 quoted in the Dec 11th AW&ST, "It's brilliant for operations where you don't need large capacity."

The German concept of cozy must be different from mine.  Wink
 
PanHAM
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 26):

The German concept of cozy must be different from mine.

well, it is a good understatement, isn't it? Now, how do they call markets where they send the A346 or even the 343/333?

Cozy in German is "Gemuetlich" and that is nowhere on a plane regardless if it is a 767 or an A380.
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SuseJ772
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
They have revolving adds in every monthly aviation magazine and news magazines. Sometimes it is the 787, the 777 or the 747-8.

This is what I don't get. Why in the world does Boeing waste money advertising in Newspapers and Magazines? It isn't like their customers are sitting there, reading through an NYTimes or a WSJ thinking to themseleves: "man, I'd really like to buy a plane, but I just don't know which one...ohh here's a nice ad." It just seems like a poor use of an ad budget. Although I am far from an MBA, so if anyone here works with Boeing (or just knows the answer) please enlighten.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 19):
Isn't the "hunchback" as you like to call it noticeably longer on the 748i as well?

I was thinking the same thing.
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USAF336TFS
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
Recently I have seen mostly adds for the 777F btw.

That certainly does qualify as a hint, perhaps, Columba... Let's   

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 28):
Although I am far from an MBA, so if anyone here works with Boeing (or just knows the answer) please enlighten.

Just one word - "Investors"

[Edited 2006-12-19 19:19:33]
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Stitch
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 28):
This is what I don't get. Why in the world does Boeing waste money advertising in Newspapers and Magazines? It isn't like their customers are sitting there, reading through an NYTimes or a WSJ thinking to themselves: "man, I'd really like to buy a plane, but I just don't know which one...ohh here's a nice ad." It just seems like a poor use of an ad budget. Although I am far from an MBA, so if anyone here works with Boeing (or just knows the answer) please enlighten.

It's designed to generate interest in the airliner and the airline flying it.

We often say passengers have no clue what plane they are flying on and advertisements like this help educate them. These advertisements also play up the "benefits" of flying this airliner on this airline which probably has some psychological effect. Yes, customers may choose LH123 XXX-FRA because it has the cheapest price, but when they see the 747-8I at their gate, they may remember the add and that the plane is "new" and "cool".

After all, why does Airbus continue to talk-up all the benefits of flying the A388 and how "new" and "cool" it will be? Because even if people didn't choose the airline and the flight because it's an A388, finding out they are on one may provide a small psychological boost even if, in the end, nothing is really different about the experience of flying...
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 28):
This is what I don't get. Why in the world does Boeing waste money advertising in Newspapers and Magazines? It isn't like their customers are sitting there, reading through an NYTimes or a WSJ thinking to themseleves: "man, I'd really like to buy a plane, but I just don't know which one...ohh here's a nice ad." It just seems like a poor use of an ad budget. Although I am far from an MBA, so if anyone here works with Boeing (or just knows the answer) please enlighten.

I one time read that Airlines consider at 5 % if the Airplane is popular or not
(95 % Engines , Range etc , 5% reputation of the airplane) see SQ is doing much money with " first to fly the 380 " advertisement , they sure considered this when they bought the 380
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AApilot2b
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:24 am

She is a real beauty.
 
SuseJ772
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:35 am

These are all great insights, I like learning it and all. But I still just find it odd. I would never have thought the "brand" would play that much into the decision of such a large purchase that newspaper advertisement could effect it.

As far as the investor's perspective, I guess I can see that. So to me, it might make sense in WSJ, but anything beyond that seems a bit far.

But as I said before, what do I know.
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pmg1704
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
They have revolving adds in every monthly aviation magazine and news magazines.

True, but this advert in the WSJournal was 600 inches in area! (30" wide and 20" tall!) Full color front section, plus an additional 1/2 page. Must have spent a fortune on it.
 
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glideslope
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 20):
The engines are different, and the upper deck is longer. Yes, I know the fuselage is longer, too, but that can't be seen very good here.

The wing is a completely new design.
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A342
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 35):
The wing is a completely new design.

IIRC it isn't completely new. Otherwise they would have reduced the sweep.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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Stitch
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 35):
The wing is a completely new design.

The wing has been re-profiled, but it still shares much of the design with the wing on the 747-400 and therefore is not really "new" compared to if Boeing had re-designed it from scratch specifically for the 747-8 family.
 
whappeh
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:19 am

Is the upper deck longer then on the 744? That is a really nice looking aircraft.
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ikramerica
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 20):
The engines are different, and the upper deck is longer. Yes, I know the fuselage is longer, too, but that can't be seen very good here.

It just looks well proportioned because the the larger engines and the large bump and the wing extensions and the taller tail, so the overall length doesn't look any greater. Everything was increased by 10% except the height and width of the fuselage, so it is hard to see the difference. Just a refinement of an iconic design.

But look a the number of windows between Doors 1 and 2. Much longer than the 744...

Quoting FlyLKU (Reply 23):
Could you elaborate on this? Are you suggesting that what Boeing was calling the "loft" [I think] where sleeper berths were proposed might be a galley on the LH -8's? I was wondering what they might do with that space, if anything, and if so would it result in a range penalty?

Others have likely chimed in as I'm writing this, but the loft space is already used for a small crew rest in the back and can also be used for one over the doors in the middle, and large storage lockers that fold up into the ceiling (saw this at the back of a QF 743), but now the entire loft can be filled with items. Expect most airlines to make a larger crew rest up there including some lightweight seats and a lav so no seats will need to be blocked off at all in the main cabin, and have both trolley storage and food ovens up there for the Y cabin in a spacious galley, so the galley space can be cut to about 40% downstairs (adding back about 25Y seats, 9J seats, or any combination thereof), as the cabin galley would only needed for staging of meal service and midflight water and drink runs. Also, duty free storage closets can be located up there. No shopping mall, but it keeps those items off the main deck, allowing for removal of closets and adding back 3 to 6Y seats or larger lavs, etc.

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 38):
Is the upper deck longer then on the 744? That is a really nice looking aircraft.

The Upper Deck is now so long that you can hold 12-16 first class pods or mini-suites, depending on design, plus a large exclusive F lav, 2 storage lockers, a full galley, and still have room at the front for two sleeping berths for the pilots, a small lav, and a business class chair and jumpseat, all in a secure module isolated from the passengers by a locked door.

I did a mockup of an SQ 748i, and I fit 12 78"x40" personal cabins upstairs plus all the amenities mentioned, with 376 total seats (12F/50J/314Y). Such a design in EK trim, with their current J product downstairs would mean this jet would hold 400 real seats even 320 seats with 34" pitch in Y. I'm sure EK is aware of this as well...  Smile
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AvObserver
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):

Boeing has proposed moving the galley and crew rest areas above the main cabin to open up an extra dozen or so seats on the main deck. LH has evidently taken them up on this option.

As we know, this raises Boeing's quoted nominal tri-class passenger capacity from 467 to 479, although LH will only be flying around 400 according to statements I've read. I guess they'll use the freed up space to increase seat pitch for better passenger room, at least in first and business classes. Lovely plane but then so have been all prior versions. I've got to think a few more tier 1 carriers are on the cusp of placing orders. No A380 killer, except perhaps for the freighter but still one damn magnificent airplane. Can't wait to see this beauty take off!  bigthumbsup 
 
A350
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 26):
"It's brilliant for operations where you don't need large capacity

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

That's also aimed at Airbus saying "hey, we want to buy big planes, why don't you deliver?"

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
Would not mind to see an add with the 787 in TUI colors soon

Please not. Have mercy with the poor Dreamliner  duck 

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flylku
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 39):
Expect most airlines to make a larger crew rest up there including some lightweight seats and a lav so no seats will need to be blocked off at all in the main cabin, and have both trolley storage and food ovens up there for the Y cabin in a spacious galley, so the galley space can be cut to about 40% downstairs (adding back about 25Y seats, 9J seats, or any combination thereof), as the cabin galley would only needed for staging of meal service and midflight water and drink runs.

Thanks for the insight.

I have been on at least one 747 that I know of that had a galley in the basement - below the main deck. With the -8 it sounds like:
-the space in the hold can be used for more cargo and/or fuel,
-the main deck for more passengers,
-the loft (area behind the upper deck) for galley space, crew rest areas and possibly storage of passenger carry-on items.

The -8 may be a derivative but tis still amazing how versatile this venerable old girl has proven to be! I hope they find as many new uses for me when I enter my latter years! I'm just a few years older than she is now.
...are we there yet?
 
whappeh
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 39):
The Upper Deck is now so long that you can hold 12-16 first class pods or mini-suites, depending on design, plus a large exclusive F lav, 2 storage lockers, a full galley, and still have room at the front for two sleeping berths for the pilots, a small lav, and a business class chair and jumpseat, all in a secure module isolated from the passengers by a locked door.

I did a mockup of an SQ 748i, and I fit 12 78"x40" personal cabins upstairs plus all the amenities mentioned, with 376 total seats (12F/50J/314Y). Such a design in EK trim, with their current J product downstairs would mean this jet would hold 400 real seats even 320 seats with 34" pitch in Y. I'm sure EK is aware of this as well... Smile

That is down right impressive. I look forward very much to seeing these aircraft in action.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
norcal
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 39):


I did a mockup of an SQ 748i, and I fit 12 78"x40" personal cabins upstairs plus all the amenities mentioned, with 376 total seats (12F/50J/314Y). Such a design in EK trim, with their current J product downstairs would mean this jet would hold 400 real seats even 320 seats with 34" pitch in Y. I'm sure EK is aware of this as well...

Care to share?  Smile
 
zenarcade
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 28):
It just seems like a poor use of an ad budget. Although I am far from an MBA, so if anyone here works with Boeing (or just knows the answer) please enlighten.

Actually quite the contrary. This is a prime example of co-op advertising where two companies will use one ad to sell a product or service. For Boeing they of course are selling their product to investors, airlines, private buyers, etc. In the case of LH this ad would sell to investors and people who conduct business travel. With this ad there is more emphasis placed on LH and its brand through the use of images.

In the copy where they explain the 748, they list off benefits which help sell both brands. The ad describes each product (remember theres really two things being sold here) as fuel efficient (good for airline, good for passenger), quieter (good for passenger, good for airline), cleaner (maybe good for AF), and comfortable which in the end is exactly passengers want. Good use of a tag at the end too "A perfect fit for where the world wants to go."

Now, is this a poor use of media budget? I highly doubt it. There is tons of research that has been accumulated into databases which allow you to virtually run your campaign against your demographic. This ensures that you as an advertiser is getting the most for your money. Just look at both companies target demographic. Both companies appeal to business people, Boeing for the money, and LH for the business travelers. WSJ makes sense.

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 34):
Must have spent a fortune on it.

Yea. They spent a heck of a lot. According to WSJ's 2006 Rate Card a full page color advertisement in the National Edition (I'm assuming they ran this all over the country) of the WSJ will run you $248,060.32. By the looks of the advertisement they ran double page spread which would cost $496,120.64.

Thats the main problem with print media, its very expensive. But I'm sure with this demographic its very effective.

Adam

I forgot to mention the price for the ad is a single run price. They probably have a contract and such or have some sort of deal going on. If they do they may get a discount up to around 20%.

[Edited 2006-12-20 01:51:59]

[Edited 2006-12-20 01:54:41]
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777fan
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 20):
The engines are different, and the upper deck is longer. Yes, I know the fuselage is longer, too, but that can't be seen very good here.

Also note the wing flex on the port side. Beautiful aircraft; congrats to both parties.

777fan
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ikramerica
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RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting NorCal (Reply 44):
Care to share?

I had trouble posting it to imageshack, but I sent it to Zvezda, so maybe he can post it somewhere for us?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
LH410
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:59 pm

RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:20 am

Does anybody have an idea when this marvellous plane will be incorporated into th LH fleet???
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: WSJ Lufthansa 747-800 Ad

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:42 am

mid 2010. About 2 years after the first A380s, if all goes to plan for both Airbus and Boeing.

The original offer date was late 2009, but since nobody ordered it for a year and they kept making changes, it got pushed back into 2010.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

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