7474ever
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TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:09 pm

The article from "HaAretz" website :

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802983.html
 
Beaucaire
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:08 pm

Since when is TLV Ben Gurion a European airport ????
Israel does belong geographically to Asia ....
IST is the "last" European airport on Turkish-European side .
Regardless of that,the ranking indicates a good performance of TLV and hopefullt the religious/orthodox constraints for ElAl will be lifted one day...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Since when is TLV Ben Gurion a European airport ????

No, it's not. However, Israeli football, basketball etc. teams play in European leagues - not in Asians. Israel also participates in the Euro-Vision contest even though it's not located geographically in Europe.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
hopefullt the religious/orthodox constraints for ElAl will be lifted one day...

Hopefully, but not likely. Ultra-orthodox passengers make up almost one third of El-Al's passengers. Ignoring their needs would cause even more difficulties to the already troubled airline.

Here's a link about the issue :

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/S...rtVty.jhtml?sw=el+al&itemNo=799497
 
ly7e7
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:04 pm

Also TLV was picked as the best airport in its size category

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 2):
Ultra-orthodox passengers make up almost one third of El-Al's passengers.

More like one fifth. Personally - I hope that the ultras will ban LY, thus practically forcing them to fly on Saturdays. In that case the they will cover about 70% of the loss only by extra flights on Saturdays. Another 30% of the loss will have to be covered via route expansion, cutting unprofitable routes like CAI and wiser management.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Ly7e7 (Reply 3):
More like one fifth

Yepp, my mistake, it's about 20 %.
 
manni
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:02 pm

FWIW nearly every travel magazine, travel show, newspaper etc. trows these kind of titles around. With often different results. As far as the survey went for this title, only 350 passengers were surveyed in each of the participating airports. Not very representative.

One more thing. With 3.9 points BRU comes in first in the European Airport region 'competition'.
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QANTAS077
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:22 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 2):
No, it's not. However, Israeli football, basketball etc. teams play in European leagues - not in Asians. Israel also participates in the Euro-Vision contest even though it's not located geographically in Europe.

that still doesn't change the fact that Israel is located on the Asian continent..Australian's participate in the Asian League football, ASEAN and many more but we are NOT part of Asia geographically. So, unless you've got plans to pick up TLV and move it to a more european location the result is meaningless.

you should be comparing yourselves with Dubai, Changi, Hong Kong & the new Bangkok airport, not a continent your not part of.
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 6):
you should be comparing yourselves with Dubai, Changi, Hong Kong & the new Bangkok airport, not a continent your not part of.

Tell that to ACI (Airports Council International) - not to me.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 6):
the result is meaningless.

The result is not meaningless just because you don't like it.

Quoting Manni (Reply 5):
Not very representative.

The best airports in the world, according to the survey, were all concentrated in Southeast Asia: Hong Kong, Inchon, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. The survey is conducted among 77 airports all around the world quarterly.

So that's not representative neither ?
 
Jelle
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:25 pm

I am puzzled here. I have used TLV many times and if you look at the effects of sucurity (although absolutely neccesary), the shopping facilites, lounges etc. and the absurd early departures to Europe, how can TLV be ranked first?
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting Jelle (Reply 8):
effects of sucurity

Flying from European airports these days isn't easier.



Quoting Jelle (Reply 8):
I have used TLV many times

You used th old (2) or the new (3) terminal ?
 
cy319
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:44 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Since when is TLV Ben Gurion a European airport ???? Israel does belong geographically to Asia ....

I agree.  Smile

Anyway, if it s voted as the best airport in the world, i state TLV has the RUDEST immigration staff in the world!!!!! these guys over there are mean, impolite,ironic,sascastic....
Thus,I dont recommend Israel as a tourist destination. For example, With their attitude my whole holiday was ruined!!! With such a negative first impression upon arrival and with such a bad last impression upon departure....my memories from Israel are very very bitter.
I prefer to visit countries where its people (including immigration staff) make u feel welcome from the very beginning of your entry there.
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QANTAS077
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 7):
The result is not meaningless just because you don't like it.

it is meaningless...fact whether you like it or not, Israel is NOT part of Europe so it can't be compared to airports like Munich, Copenhagen & the new Athens airport.

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 7):
Tell that to ACI (Airports Council International) - not to me.

give them a map of the world...
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 11):
fact whether you like it or not, Israel is NOT part of Europe

Did I say it was ?

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 11):
it can't be compared to airports like Munich, Copenhagen & the new Athens airport.

Why not ? A European airport only can be compared to a European one ? An Asian to an Asian one ? Now that's meaningless. BTW, have you seen it ?
 
bennett123
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:17 pm

As far as the Eurovision was concerned, I always thought that Turkey was streatching things let alone Israel.

But that is another story.
 
petertenthije
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 12):
Why not ?

Because this was the election for best EUROPEAN airport. Not the election for best Asian airport pretending to be European.  Wink
Attamottamotta!
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 14):
Because this was the election for best EUROPEAN airport.

Ben-Gurion International Airport was ranked first among 40 European airports, and fifth out of 77 around the world, in a survey of the Airports Council International (ACI).

Now, there are two options : you didn't read the article and/or you don't understand english well. As far as I'm concerned, this was a worldwide survey. I don't see anything saying "election for best EUROPEAN airport."

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 14):
Not the election for best Asian airport pretending to be European.

You just prove my point.
 
PanHAM
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:53 pm

When I started in this business, Israel belonged to TC 2 "IATA Europe", I think after the OSL agreement it changed to the Middle East sub area. Cyprus is geographically in Asia but member of the EU. Certain parts of BEY could be called European and certainly Israel is a mix of Europe in the Middle East.

That aside, the airport is indeed one of the more pleasant facilities of its kind. Especially when you compare it to the old building. Immigration is quick, the security on departure much better and quicker than vv. The new buildings are spacious and the road to the terminal could double as a very interesting F1 circuit.

May be not #1 by everybody's standards but certainly high up in the ranking.

Almost forgot - and it's heaven for 707 lovers.....I always take a window seat going to and from TLV.
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ly7e7
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 11):
Israel is NOT part of Europe so it can't be compared to airports like Munich, Copenhagen & the new Athens airport.

Surely Israel is an Asian country. But according to your views an Israeli football team playing in UEFA cup cannot be compared to its rivals in the competition. That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? Nobody is tying to change the geography of the world - it's geopolitics we encounter in issues like this.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
manni
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 7):
The best airports in the world, according to the survey, were all concentrated in Southeast Asia: Hong Kong, Inchon, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. The survey is conducted among 77 airports all around the world quarterly.

So that's not representative neither ?

Not when only 350 people have been asked to fill out the survey.

77 airports with 350 surveys each, results in less than 30000 people being asked their opinion.

Here's the airport ranking according to Skytrax.

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards-2006/ResultsFull.htm

1 Singapore Changi Airport
2 Hong Kong Int'l Airport
3 Munich Airport
4 Kansai International Airport
5 Seoul Incheon Airport
6 KLIA - Kuala Lumpur Airport
7 Helsinki Vantaa Airport
8 Zurich Airport
9 Dubai International Airport
10 Copenhagen Airport

Of the 10 best airports, according to Skytrax, 6 are in Asia and 4 are in Europe. TLV is not one of them.
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Danny
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 2):
No, it's not. However, Israeli football, basketball etc. teams play in European leagues - not in Asians.

I don't understand that either. They should play within Asia.
 
cy319
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:17 pm

Anyway, if it s voted as the best airport in the world, i state TLV has the RUDEST immigration staff in the world!!!!! these guys over there are mean, impolite,ironic,sascastic.... They spoiled my holiday....
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ZRH
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting CY319 (Reply 10):
Thus,I dont recommend Israel as a tourist destination.

Of course not. When you are a tourist and travel to a country which is in war then you are crazy. I would never ever go there for vacation.
 
cy319
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 21):
When you are a tourist and travel to a country which is in war then you are crazy

Well...TLV is a safe place to be. Life runs very normal there even in case of a confict. My concern isnt about security as i felt safe there. My big disappointment came from immigration staff's rude attitude upon arrival and departure. They really spoiled my time.
wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
 
avi
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Jelle (Reply 8):
...and the absurd early departures to Europe...

Absurd? I agree it is not comfortable to depart at 05:30 (it means to be awake all night long) but this is a demand made by the foreign airlines. They want to bring their passengers from TLV to their connection flights on time (this is their biggest business, not the flights to Europe). They even want to open TLV for departure at 05:00 and not 05:30.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
and the road to the terminal could double as a very interesting F1 circuit.

This is really the biggest scandal of the project. Even in here the religious guys intervened and the result is about unnecessary 7km of drive on each direction with not less than 3 U turns (when you come from Tel Aviv).
Long live the B747
 
PanHAM
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Avi (Reply 23):

This is really the biggest scandal of the project. Even in here the religious guys intervened and the result is about unnecessary 7km of drive on each direction with not less than 3 U turns (when you come from Tel Aviv)

what does that have to do with religion? I thought it is - understandably - for securitry reasons, just in case someone makes it through the first checkpoint. But I agree, it adds to the mileage considerably.

Quoting CY319 (Reply 20):
rt in the world, i state TLV has the RUDEST immigration staff in the world!!!!! these guys over there are mean, impolite,ironic,sascastic

what did you tell them to get that reaction? The young lady was very nice and polite, did not even ask any questions. Israel is good to do business and also a great tourist destination.
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cy319
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
what did you tell them to get that reaction?

LOL!  Smile
In fact I m a very polite & calm person and my attitude to them was very very good and easy-going.
wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
 
metsfan1
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:13 am

CY319 I think we get your point about them having the RUDEST immigration. No need to keep repeating it every post.
 
avi
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
what does that have to do with religion? I thought it is - understandably - for securitry reasons, just in case someone makes it through the first checkpoint. But I agree, it adds to the mileage considerably.

Originally a new interchange was planed on the Tel Aviv - Jerusalem highway near the new terminal. Then came religious politicians and lobbyists and said it will interrupt the lives of 2 religious settlements near the highway (BS but...) and our weak government surrendered and it was canceled. Since this new decision was made after the bridge along the terminal was already on work and so were the approach roads (all were planed to connect the new interchange) the new approach roads had to make a lot of right and left turns (including U turns) and at the bottom line the final result does remind a F1 circuit and not a normal road.
Instead of driving about 3 km from the highway to the terminal via the new interchange, you have to drive now about 10km to the old entrance and back.

It has nothing to do with security. We don't play with it.
Long live the B747
 
petertenthije
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 15):
Now, there are two options : you didn't read the article and/or you don't understand english well. As far as I'm concerned, this was a worldwide survey. I don't see anything saying "election for best EUROPEAN airport."

Firstly, I read the article. Secondly, I am fully proficient in English thank you very much.

Please refer to the header of the artice:

Quoting http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802983.html:
Ben-Gurion comes in first among European airports

And the first line in the article:

Quoting http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802983.html:
Ben-Gurion was ranked first among 40 European airports

Followed by:

Quoting http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802983.html:
Israel's main international airport received the highest satisfaction rating in the European region, 3.94 out of 5, according to the IAA. Scores of other airports ranked similarly: Vienna, 3.51; Munich, 3.6; Amsterdam, 3.57; Brussels, 3.9; Zurich, 3.76; Copenhagen, 3.54; and Helsinki, 3.71.

Now perhaps that ACI did not intend for this to be a "best of europe" competition, the Israeli Airport Autority does make that claim. A claim that is not justified since Israel is not part of Europe. Please refer to the attached map of Asia and attached map of Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationAsia.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationEurope.png
Attamottamotta!
 
semsem
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:52 am

Manni Skytrax is certainly no criteria. The Airport Council is what counts. CY319 why would a whole vacation be ruined because of an interview with "one" person which became unpleasant? They have to be tough.

OK so Israel is not in Europe. So what? Nothing wrong in comparing it with European airports.

[Edited 2006-12-19 16:55:04]
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 28):
Please refer to the attached map of Asia and attached map of Europe.

Thanks for remiding me where Israel is. Without you I wouldn't noticed.
 
manni
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 29):
The Airport Council is what counts.

I disagree. The opinion of the flying public is what's important. Skytrax interviews far more than 30000 people.
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semsem
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 am

Manni. 99.999999999% of contributors to Skytrax have never been to Israel. It's completely irrelevant and skewed; Statistics 101. The opinions of Skytrax are null and void when it comes to smaller airports.
 
PanHAM
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting Avi (Reply 27):
Instead of driving about 3 km from the highway to the terminal via the new interchange, you have to drive now about 10km to the old entrance and back.

OK, now I understand it, thanks for the explanation.
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ly7e7
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:13 am

BTW, according to Skytrax TLV is the second best airport in the Middle East.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
rjpieces
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 21):
When you are a tourist and travel to a country which is in war then you are crazy.

The United States is in two wars right now. Do you travel here?

Quoting ZRH (Reply 21):
I would never ever go there for vacation.

Your loss.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
7474ever
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 31):
The opinion of the flying public is what's important.

Don't you consider people departing a certain airport as "flying public" ?

Quoting Manni (Reply 31):
Skytrax interviews far more than 30000 people.

Yes, according to their website millions, but - correct me if I'm wrong - the vast majority of these surveys is done online/via e-mail questionnaire. I don't think in this case we can talk about actual "flying public".
 
BA
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 34):
BTW, according to Skytrax TLV is the second best airport in the Middle East.

No, that would be BEY:
http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards-2006/ResultsFull.htm

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Photo © Vatche Mitilian

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rjpieces
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting BA (Reply 39):
No, that would be BEY

Don't they not have runways anymore?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BA
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 40):
Don't they not have runways anymore?

Funny...  Yeah sure

FYI for you, all runways were repaired and are back in full operation. No matter how hard Israel tries, they will never be able to destroy Lebanon.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BWI757
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:55 am

Can we PLEASE keep the conversation on track here and not start with the mudslinging? Start a thread in non-av if you need to keep it up.

Now then, has anyone been through the new terminal that can comment on this?

Thanks
BWI757
I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
 
semsem
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:37 am

The Beirut Airport was never destroyed. The new $500MM Terminal was kept intact. Only the runways were destroyed to stop traffic from Iran. The runways were repaired within 48 hours.
 
ly7e7
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:12 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 38):
No, that would be BEY:

Not according to Skytrax - which seams to be the leading poll in this forum.

BEY is ranked third in Skytrax.

The bottom line here is that every ranking gets you a different result. It's really useless to rely on any of them.

edit: I was looking at 2005. At 2006 BEY was second.

[Edited 2006-12-20 09:29:24]
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SOBHI51
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:19 pm

Never heard of ACI  Confused
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
BA
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 44):
The Beirut Airport was never destroyed.

You're right, the airport wasn't destroyed. It was crippled. An airport doesn't need a terminal to operate, but it does need runways and fuel which is precisely what Israel targeted.

Quoting Semsem (Reply 44):
Only the runways were destroyed to stop traffic from Iran.

To stop a once weekly Iran Air A310-200 flight?  Yeah sure

By the way, it was more than just the runways. The fuel storage tanks in the airports were destroyed and have yet to be rebuilt. They are bringing fuel into the airport on fuel trucks in the meantime.

Quoting Semsem (Reply 44):
The runways were repaired within 48 hours.

Hah...I wish the runways were repaired within 48 hours.

Temporary repairs on runway 17/35 took one week to complete. Permanent repairs on runway 17/35 and runway 03/21 took a month to complete.

Runway 16/34 repairs were not finished until last month.

The fuel storage tanks have still not been repaired. Infact, they can't be repaired. They need to be replaced.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 45):
Not according to Skytrax - which seam to be the leading poll in this forum.

My friend, what do you think I just posted?

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards-2006/ResultsFull.htm
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ly7e7
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RE: TLV : Among The Best Airports

Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 48):
what do you think I just posted?



Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 45):
edit: I was looking at 2005. At 2006 BEY was second
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