LHUSA
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UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:39 am

Did a search and couldn't find anything. I heard that UA in discontinuing ORD-KIX (currently 3-weekly). Apparently, the last day of operation will be Jan 19th and all pax booked after will be accomodated via the daily UA SFO-KIX. Didn't AA just drop this route last year?
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:48 am

I was wondering where they'd come up with a 777 for the upcoming IAD to Rome service. Though, aren't the UA Pacific 777s different than its Atlantic 777s? So maybe they'll add frequencies to other Pacific routes if ORD-KIX is discontinued. Or....is UA anticipating victory on its IAD-Beijing proposal?  Wow!
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AMS
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:52 am

01JUL SUN ORD/CDT KIX/‡14
1UA 877 F9 C9 D9 Y9 B9*ORDKIX 1223P 400P‡1 777 L 0 DCA /E
M9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 S9 T9 K9 L9


In Sabre it still shows that UA has a flt on 01 July ORD-KIX

Regards,
AMS
 
LHUSA
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting AMS (Reply 2):
In Sabre it still shows that UA has a flt on 01 July ORD-KIX

So, just got so more info from a travel agent. UA sent them a notice the flight is officially canceled as after Jan 19th. The booking systems are to be updated tomorrow. BTW, the email to the travel agent didn't say anything about it being confidential, so not sure why there is no press release yet.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:07 am

This is sad... I love UA's asian network from ORD.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 3):
So, just got so more info from a travel agent. UA sent them a notice the flight is officially canceled as after Jan 19th. The booking systems are to be updated tomorrow. BTW, the email to the travel agent didn't say anything about it being confidential, so not sure why there is no press release yet.

Airlines rarely have press releases when they discontinue service.
 
AADC10
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 1):
Though, aren't the UA Pacific 777s different than its Atlantic 777s?

The 777XPs and XIs are mostly interchangeable but they prefer to use the XP on longer Pacific flight so they do not have to use up seats for crew rest because the XPs have overhead rest space. Both models have been reported being used over both the Atlantic and Pacific.

Japan's economy is still stumbling I guess. Not having a daily flight probably hurts as well.
 
WeAreUnited
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 6):
the XPs have overhead rest space.

It's actually a lower-lobe crew rest. It's accessible by a door where the lavs are between coach sections (one lav was removed).
 
jimyvr
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:13 am

http://www.unitedairlines.co.jp/jsp/ja/travel/timetable_jan_usa.jsp

United's Japanese website already showing the flight discontinues eff 19JAN07.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 6):
Japan's economy is still stumbling I guess

KIX's high airport charges hurt too, I'm sure!
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
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United787
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:29 am

That is too bad, I was on that route a year ago  Sad
 
dia77
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting LHUSA (Thread starter):
Didn't AA just drop this route last year?

AA dropped ORD-NGO last year.....
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting LHUSA (Thread starter):
Didn't AA just drop this route last year?

AA dropped DFW-KIX this year.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:07 am

So AA and UA both dropped KIX twice from from their biggest hubs in the recent years. I can't understand why they keep trying. It has been proven over and over again that it does not work.

TokyoNarita.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:15 am

There are so many large airports relatively close to each other in that part of Japan....NGO, KIX and soon Kobe. Big spending politicians went on an airport building binge. The traffic obviously can't support so many international flights. UA is smart to focus on its dailies to KIX and NGO from it's primary Asian hub at SFO along with its many flights to NRT from LAX, ORD, SFO and IAD.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
AA dropped DFW-KIX this year.



Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 9):
KIX's high airport charges hurt too, I'm sure!

I think KIX is just not a very high yield market in general, and tough to make work transpac exluding Hawaii.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
centrair
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:18 am

Sad to hear but the Kansai region is just a mess. Kobe (already open and operating but has restrictions) and ITM take all the domestic connections leaving KIX to compete for local traffic and connecting traffic.

This flight was 3x weekly and didn't go anywhere else. That is a problem.

SFO-NGO would probably not be as loaded if it didn't go onto TPE. That is local, transfer and through traffic. Not to mention NGO has lots of large corporations that would prefer to fly locally than go up to NRT and fly out.

KIX has lost tons of service yet they are building a second runway to meet "capacity". Not sure what they are smoking down there but they should stop. Took long enough for them to get into the black and now they are back in the red.

NGO on the other hand has been open a year and a half and has gained service from UA, EK (Went from 772ER to A345), AY (which will be increasing and changing to an A343), VN and Eva. We also have the new FedEx Japan Sorting center on the island which is growing big time. Cargo has been growing big time.

UA probably is pulling this route so they can do IAD-PEK or they will be looking at increasing/adding other routes. (Actually ORD-NGO was rumored...that would hurt NW big time, as they have some contracts from Nissan, Toyota and a few other companies. Not to mention ORD is Boeing HQ, NGO is where major 777, 787 and 737 parts are made.)
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
Not to mention ORD is Boeing HQ, NGO is where major 777, 787 and 737 parts are made.)

Well, Boeing Commercial Airplanes is still headquartered in Seattle.

I would think a SEA-NGO route would be smart.

NS
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
that would hurt NW big time, as they have some contracts from Nissan, Toyota and a few other companies

UA has the Toyota contract. Maybe United should just consolidate its flights to the region at NGO.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
centrair
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 17):
I would think a SEA-NGO route would be smart.

Me too. Sure would be nice for me.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 18):
UA has the Toyota contract.

I thought that was a management contract only? NW had a contract for taking lower management to their US plants. Lots of Toyota people on those planes...a few in C but more in Y. They are traveling with their families. They get put in the US plants for three years and then brought back to Japan. Maybe I am thinking of something else.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 18):
Maybe United should just consolidate its flights to the region at NGO.

Not a bad idea. Plenty of Star partners there doing good business.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
Not a bad idea. Plenty of Star partners there doing good business.

Maybe this is their long term plan once they can enlarge the fleet
 
jimyvr
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
NGO on the other hand has been open a year and a half and has gained service from Eva

EVA is downgrading the service to 4x weekly.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
centrair
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 21):
EVA is downgrading the service to 4x weekly.

DOH! Oh well bound to happen with EVA, China Airlines, UA, NH, CX and JL all doing flights to TPE. Cann't be that much of a demand.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Carpethead
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:39 pm

Is UA877/878 coming back this summer?
This route could become a seasonal thing.

This route might do better if some of Asian Star Alliance partners could re-time their connections better. Right now the in-bound flight has lost a few connections to like ICN & PVG, etc and now left with just Japanese domestic connection because the other carriers have adjusted their schedules to earlier time slots.
 
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Amwest2United
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 1):
was wondering where they'd come up with a 777 for the upcoming IAD to Rome service. Though, aren't the UA Pacific 777s different than its Atlantic 777s? So maybe they'll add frequencies to other Pacific routes if ORD-KIX is discontinued. Or....is UA anticipating victory on its IAD-Beijing proposal?

I would guess it was cxld to cover the B772 that is out of service in IAD. Not may spare B777's around. That aircraft is expected to be OTS till March at least.
Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
 
halls120
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting Amwest2United (Reply 24):
I would guess it was cxld to cover the B772 that is out of service in IAD. Not may spare B777's around. That aircraft is expected to be OTS till March at least.

What happened to it?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Archer
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:47 pm

I have a question.
How do we find airport ID's?
I have no idea what KIX is (other than a cereal).
Thanks.
Archer
 
LHUSA
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Archer (Reply 26):
How do we find airport ID's?


Just hold the coursor over the three-letter airport code and the name and location should appear. Works about 95% of the time.
 
Getdonnie
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:06 am

I tried doing some research on pass threads and I did not come up with anything. And as we are discussing the Asian market would anyone please update me on the restrictions placed on four engined aircraft at some Japanese airports and why? Please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to everyone.
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
SFO-NGO would probably not be as loaded if it didn't go onto TPE. That is local, transfer and through traffic.

SFO-NGO becomes a stand alone flight in June. NGO-TPE is dropped once UA resumes SFO-TPE nonstop service on June 7th.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jfk777
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:29 am

United has huge amounts of service to Japan. UA has two Asia hubs, Narita and SFO. SFO should have service to NGO, TPE and KIX. Its too bad ORD-KIX isn't working, Chicago supports the Tokyo market better.
 
unitednrt
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:33 am

The flight was deemed discontinued due to low performance results, yet positive nonetheless. The aircraft was deemed better suited for new stages that did not include the ORD-KIX rotation. The Japanese economy could support the flight as could the O'Hare hub system through it connecting capacity. This isn't a failed experiment as American's DFW-KIX came to be. Nagoya's proximity does have an effect, yet the ORD market doesn't have nonstop Nagoya service yet. ORD-KIX is still a possibility with future aircraft.

United had better opportunities approach for the short term which made better sense.

Just .02 worth from Narita.

Now to sleep I go.
Cheers.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
rwsea
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:07 am

Pardon my ignorance, but I don't know much about the Osaka area. How come US-based carriers can't seem to make it work? It seems that carriers usually add KIX as their second Japanese city after Osaka, but UA and AA have now both dropped service, and NW dropped SEA-KIX a few years ago too (but there's rumors that it might return someday). Is there much of a business market in Osaka, or do the pax tend to be more leaning towards tourists? Why does KIX seem to do well on flights to the West Coast, but poorly to interior hubs like DFW and ORD?
 
NWAatNGO
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:03 am

Sad to see this happen, but to me it looks like this is just another nail in KIX's coffin. While the airport does well on flights to/from Asia, the service to/from North America is getting weaker and weaker.

I know that NW's KIX-DTW flight is often times undersold, hence they are frequently running specials to get bodies on this flight. The Osaka Metro area is huge and there is a ton of industry there so I don't understand why so many flights seem to be performing poorly. In contrast the NGO-DTW is always packed, especially in WBC.

KIX is a great airport and I hope that they can figure out how to keep as much service as they can. I would hate to see the airport go under (pun completely intended).

Just my 2 yen.

NWAatNGO
 
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Aaron747
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:10 am

UA has the Toyota contract. Maybe United should just consolidate its flights to the region at NGO.

There's more than one Toyota contract. A company that large has multiple contracts for multiple service sectors. NW is used primarily for bringing Toyota employees and their families to TMMK and Subaru joint venture facilities in Kentucky/Indiana.

SFO-NGO becomes a stand alone flight in June. NGO-TPE is dropped once UA resumes SFO-TPE nonstop service on June 7th.

I'll believe this when I see it. UA would be dropping a boatload of cash to let go of having the largest cargo capacity on NGO-TPE.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
SFO-NGO becomes a stand alone flight in June. NGO-TPE is dropped once UA resumes SFO-TPE nonstop service on June 7th.

I'll believe this when I see it. UA would be dropping a boatload of cash to let go of having the largest cargo capacity on NGO-TPE.


Help yourself. Check online www.ual.com

Last NGO-TPE-NGO is June 7/8.

UA simply cannot support 3 daily TPE flights, while the NGO flight has built up nicely and stand on its own feet without the TPE tag.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):

I'll believe this when I see it. UA would be dropping a boatload of cash to let go of having the largest cargo capacity on NGO-TPE.

Believe it. You can't book the flights after 9 June.
a.
 
spartanmjf
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 25):
Quoting Amwest2United (Reply 24):
I would guess it was cxld to cover the B772 that is out of service in IAD. Not may spare B777's around. That aircraft is expected to be OTS till March at least.

What happened to it?

A water canon salute turned into a foam salute, doing some unspeakable things to the engine[s] - there was a thread on it last week.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
centrair
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 35):
while the NGO flight has built up nicely and stand on its own feet without the TPE tag.

Really? Always seems like few people are getting off of it...maybe that is because I never wait around (parents always fly business). Never taken the flight...doesn't connect to MSP unless you go via Den and/or ORD.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
the largest cargo capacity on NGO-TPE

I am sad....
The largest Cargo Capacity on NGO-TPE is not on UA but on CI. They have one cargo flight once a week with a 747. But on a daily, yes UA does take it. But I think the NGO-TPE market is flooded. Just too many carriers. Even BR is cutting back.

So...if ORD-KIX is being dropped and NGO-TPE is being dropped, how many Pacific 777s is that? Two, Three or Four?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 38):
So...if ORD-KIX is being dropped and NGO-TPE is being dropped, how many Pacific 777s is that? Two, Three or Four?

Only 1 plane.. ORD-KIX was only 3x per week.

While the NGO-TPE tag drop does not effect anything as SFO-NGO still remains daily.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Aaron747
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:18 am

Believe it. You can't book the flights after 9 June.

What a dumb move. A few people I know who work for trading companies that specialize in the aftermarket autoparts and machine tools markets around here are always complaining about the limited pallet sizes on NGO-TPE.

UA simply cannot support 3 daily TPE flights

So the NRT-TPE tag should be dropped instead.

[Edited 2006-12-22 03:19:38]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
unitednrt
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):

So the NRT-TPE tag should be dropped instead.

Much more important stage in terms of both cargo and passengers. Performance is sufficient on all TPE rotations, in and out.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):
So the NRT-TPE tag should be dropped instead.

NRT-TPE provides connectivity with UA's Tokyo mini-hub unlike NGO-TPE simply was a small tag flight aimed at providing TPE with a 2nd UA flight.
Now with the SFO-TPE nonstop resuming after years, the short NGO tag gets dropped.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
centrair
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:12 pm

This means UA is using only 5th freedoms via NRT now.

When NW takes their 787s, will be interesting to see how everything shapes up at KIX and NGO.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Carpethead
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RE: UA Ending ORD-KIX Jan 19th?

Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:57 pm

KIX has lost a host of long-haul services since 1999 to the North American market even to a degree to Europe. Despite all the pessimism of long-haul routes, regional routes are doing very well, particularly those to China. The domestic scene was not very good the past few years but the restriction at ITM has led to some shifting of domestic flights to KIX particularly on ‘longer-haulEdestinations.

Here are some discontinued/decreased transpac routes:
UA: daily KIX-LAX (742/744)
UA: daily KIX-ORD (744 in 2000 & 777 in 2004-2006)
JL: 3/4-weekly KIX-ORD (744)
JL: daily KIX-LAX (744)
NW: daily LAX-KIX-MNL (742)
NW: daily KIX-MSP (742 Esummer only)
NW: daily SEA-KIX-CGK/KUL/KHH (D10)
AA: daily KIX-DFW (M11 & 777)
AC: 3-weekly KIX-YYZ (343 Esummer only)
JL: decrease in KIX-HNL from two dailies to one daily.
TG: BKK-KIX-LAX 3-weekly (744)
Believe it or not, DL wanted to start PDX-KIX in 1999/2000 but KIX authorities did not grant the slots to DL.

European routes
NH: daily KIX-LHR/FRA (742)
JL: 3-weekly KIX-FRA (M11-summer only)
JL: 3/4-weekly KIX-CDG (744)
SK: 3/4-weekly KIX-CPH/ARN (763)
BA: KIX-LHR (744 - not sure of frequency)
SU: 1/2-weekly KIX-SVO
SR/LX: 5-week KIX-ZRH (M11)
OS: daily KIX-VIE (332/340)

Despite all the pessimism KIX gets on this site, it is turning a yearly profit, though this doesn't help the fact that a heap of debt was accummulated during the first decade of operation. Cargo continues to build-up heathily and the second runway will come on line about the right time. There will be no need for slots for the good future and true 24-hour operations (airport did shut down for runway maintenance due to the single runway - important for those increasing late night cargo flights).

There is no plans to build additional terminal facilities but new remote stands will be built, and the current facility is nowhere near capacity except for about two hours in the morning.

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