LIPZ
Topic Author
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Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:41 am

Really sad to read this news on Star Alliance website.


Press Releases 2006
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil - 21 December 2006

VARIG to leave Star Alliance

Viação Aérea Rio-Grandense S.A. (VARIG Brazilian Airlines or "old" VARIG) will no longer be a member of Star Alliance as of 31 January 2007. This decision was prompted by the current restructuring of the airline in which "old" VARIG continued to be a Star Alliance member, operating a reduced flight schedule on behalf of a new company, VRG Linhas Aéreas S.A. ("New" VARIG).
With "new" VARIG now having been granted an official air operator's certificate (CHETA - Certificado de Homologação de Empresa de Transporte Aéreo) by the Brazilian authorities, "old" VARIG will in future no longer fulfil the pre-requisites for Star Alliance membership.

http://www.staralliance.com/en/press...0061221_RGleavingstaralliance.html
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:44 am

Now Star needs to find a new member in South America, with possible options being very limited...


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:00 am

Does this mean that the "new" VARIG will take its place?
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JJMNGR
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 1):
w Star needs to find a new member in South America, with possible options being very limited...

Ohhh yes...with TAM as the biggest South America airline there are few options...]

I t doesn´t mean TAM will be part of Star Alliance...but say that options are limited I don´t agree.
 
dougbr2006
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:15 am

Sad to hear but not unexpected as the old VARIG is a different entity with only one 737 to operate it hardly can substantiate belonging to the Star Alliance.

Perhaps once the New VARIG is up and stable then perhaps the Star Alliance might reconsider reentry. As far as another operator in Brazil joining the Alliance I think it is difficult as most code share with other airlines that are members of other programmes though they are not members of any particular alliance themselves. TAM has its own miles programme in which you gain a free ticket after a certain number of flights (depending on card level) but mainly within Brazil. GOL I don't think operate any miles system.
 
SRT75
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
VARIG to leave Star Alliance

Had to happen, and about time. Kind of embarassing for the other *A members to have to promote VARIG as an alliance member on their websites, in their in-flight magazines, etc.

If all this UA/CO merger rumors come to fruition, *A's Central and South America woes will be over.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 3):
Ohhh yes...with TAM as the biggest South America airline there are few options...]

I t doesn´t mean TAM will be part of Star Alliance...but say that options are limited I don´t agree.

There's TAM and...? Options are limited.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
skyteam2000
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:37 am

Sad news for Varig and Star.

TAM doesnt want to be at any alliance until now. AF want to Skyteam and AA to Oneworld but they do not move. Now I am sure LH will do the work.
Who will win? TAM for sure, it is a good cake.
 
MEA-707
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
There's TAM and...? Options are limited

The other large and good airlines in South America are LAN (deeply in OneWorld) , Aerolineas Argentinas, Avianca (with other Synergy airlines like Oceanair and VIP) and GOL. Except LAN, they all might be a nice addition for Star Alliance.
Including Mexico and Central America, you can consider TACA, COPA, Mexicana and Aeromexico, of which TACA and Mexicana might also be interesting for (re) entry in an alliance.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
tu154
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Skyteam2000 (Reply 7):
TAM doesnt want to be at any alliance until now. AF want to Skyteam and AA to Oneworld but they do not move. Now I am sure LH will do the work.
Who will win? TAM for sure, it is a good cake.

huh?
Translation please..............
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fly727
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 8):
Including Mexico and Central America, you can consider TACA, COPA, Mexicana and Aeromexico, of which TACA and Mexicana might also be interesting for (re) entry in an alliance.

Except that AeroMexico is a founding member (one of the original 4, along with Air France, Delta Air Lines and Korean Air) of SkyTeam.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
bongo
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 1):
Now Star needs to find a new member in South America, with possible options being very limited...

TAM and AVIANCA (and others from Synergy Group) comes to my mind
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 8):
Except LAN, they all might be a nice addition for Star Alliance.
Including Mexico and Central America, you can consider TACA, COPA, Mexicana and Aeromexico, of which TACA and Mexicana might also be interesting for (re) entry in an alliance.

TACA could be an addition, but just like other Central American carriers it lacks the dense southern network Varig used to offer. Aeromexico is a member of SkyTeam, COPA is linked to Continental. Mexicana is unlikely to join again currently.

GOL is a pure LCC not offering all the frills like the Star carriers, Aerolineas Argentinas offers a dense Argentinian network but its location doesn't suit well for connections across the whole continent.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
787kq
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 12):
TACA could be an addition, but just like other Central American carriers it lacks the dense southern network Varig used to offer. Aeromexico is a member of SkyTeam, COPA is linked to Continental. Mexicana is unlikely to join again currently.

GOL is a pure LCC not offering all the frills like the Star carriers, Aerolineas Argentinas offers a dense Argentinian network but its location doesn't suit well for connections across the whole continent.

 checkmark 

I would have hoped that Star could work with the new Varig and help them get their act together. Star's support could have really helped the airline (by funneling traffic to it) and Star (by offering more destinations in deep South America), a win-win.
 
jimyvr
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:34 am

There's also Aerolineas Argentinas.....or even LAN if Lufthansa can pursuade it.
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PPVRA
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 13):

I would have hoped that Star could work with the new Varig and help them get their act together. Star's support could have really helped the airline (by funneling traffic to it) and Star (by offering more destinations in deep South America), a win-win.

"New" Varig is already in talks to enter Star Alliance. Nothing decided yet, but they already had a meeting with Jaan Albrecht, Star's CEO, and are hoping to defeine a role for the New Varig by the end of the month.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
rootsair
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 12):

TACA could be an addition, but just like other Central American carriers it lacks the dense southern network Varig used to offer.

They could develop their Lima hub and offer more destinations to the south. They have quite a lot of them right now!
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 2):
Does this mean that the "new" VARIG will take its place?

If they fill all the conditions, yes they probably will be the South American partner. One thing is clear to me, it will take at least 1 year to see Varig again in Star Alliance.
A side-note, they will change their RG code also.

Quoting Bongo (Reply 11):
TAM and AVIANCA (and others from Synergy Group) comes to my mind

Forget about Tam. Avianca could be a name, but they need to improve their network in Brazil with Ocean Air.

Felipe
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jimyvr
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 16):
They could develop their Lima hub and offer more destinations to the south. They have quite a lot of them right now!

well, the only problem is only AC flies to Lima.....
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The777Man
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
A side-note, they will change their RG code also

So what will their code be now ?

The777Man
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Werkur767
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Really sad to read this news on Star Alliance website.


Press Releases 2006
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil - 21 December 2006

VARIG to leave Star Alliance

Viação Aérea Rio-Grandense S.A. (VARIG Brazilian Airlines or "old" VARIG) will no longer be a member of Star Alliance as of 31 January 2007. This decision was prompted by the current restructuring of the airline in which "old" VARIG continued to be a Star Alliance member, operating a reduced flight schedule on behalf of a new company, VRG Linhas Aéreas S.A. ("New" VARIG).
With "new" VARIG now having been granted an official air operator's certificate (CHETA - Certificado de Homologação de Empresa de Transporte Aéreo) by the Brazilian authorities, "old" VARIG will in future no longer fulfil the pre-requisites for Star Alliance membership.

http://www.staralliance.com/en/press....html

It's sad news, i flown many times with Varig, the company was for more than 70 years the largest and most principal airline here in Brazil. I'm plastic model maker, i built a 737-300 model, 1/144 scale, with 75th year sticker, and i made with proud. Varig is my favourite airline for Brazil. Really sad news, many Varig fliglts still to being cancelled, day after day....

Werner from GRU.
Werkurspotter
 
mpdesa
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Werkur767 (Reply 20):
many Varig fliglts still to being cancelled, day after day....

Are you talking about currently?
 
Arcano
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 3):
with TAM as the biggest South America airline there are few options...]

JJ and AR comes to my mind, but still, New RG could also apply...

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 8):
Avianca (with other Synergy airlines like Oceanair and VIP) and GOL

Nah, AV is not that relevant in South American skies, and I don't see a LCC in Star either. How many Star members fly to BOG?

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 14):
There's also Aerolineas Argentinas.....or even LAN if Lufthansa can pursuade it.

AR does come to my mind, as posted. More connected, able of linking Oceania, North America and Europe, etc. Although I don't think EZE works as well as GRU for hubbing an alliance.

Anyway, I vote for AR, and JJ for SkyTeam!

LAN is not an option, too much codesharing with AA and IB, and they would lose Oceanea as it is now...

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 16):

They could develop their Lima hub and offer more destinations to the south. They have quite a lot of them right now!

Would be nice. Why not CM as well?

Regards. Wishing Varig the best!

Arcano
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TBCITDG
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:36 pm

I'm not too sure that LA would give up Oceania quite that easily. They would still be able to code share with NZ??
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 23):
I'm not too sure that LA would give up Oceania quite that easily. They would still be able to code share with NZ??

No, they fought a battle with QF at the beginning of the century to stay on the NZ and OZ routes and here they are today, while QF has pulled out of South America. LA will be here in Oceania to stay and the added frequencies introduced this year reflects this. LA will also remian part of Oneworld I would think.

As far as Star Alliance goes, AR seems the most likely option at the moment.

-They currently fly to AKL meaning that South American passengers could easily connect to Australia and Asia through NZ.
-They fly to MAD and BCN which are the hubs for JK meaning seamless domestic conections within Spain and then onwards to Europe.

Seems a perfect match to me.

[Edited 2006-12-22 04:47:23]
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 5):
If all this UA/CO merger rumors come to fruition, *A's Central and South America woes will be over.

not really , that would solve getting between North America and South America , it would do nothing for links within South America , or between South America and other parts of the world - Star still needs a partner within South America to give proper coverage - I bet SK are wishing they had never sold their stake in LA
 
rootsair
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 18):
well, the only problem is only AC flies to Lima.....

This could therefore mean LH returning to LIM . I know they did fly there once but with KL going non stop with the 777's there would perhaps be no more use in flying there.
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
SKY1
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 22):
Anyway, I vote for AR, and JJ for SkyTeam!

JJ could join SkyTeam, but I don't see AR as a SkyT member.

If AR joins any global alliance it will be Star. Remember G.Pascual, Spanair CEO is also a main shareholder in Marsans, company which is the owner of AR

AR and JK have a lot of links.

On the other hand, SkyTeam really need more presence and network in both, South America and the Southern Hemisphere. But is highly unlikely seeing AR inside SkyT.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 24):
As far as Star Alliance goes, AR seems the most likely option at the moment.

 checkmark 

Anyhow I find it strange that AR currently does not have any remarkable link with the Star members ...being Spanair the only exception.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
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tavong
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:32 pm

TAM is the best options and at this timethey're not interested in an alliance.
AV would be nice but i really don't see this happenning, AV isn't interested in an Alliance and they're doing fine with Codeshares.
AR doesn0t seem and option cause the're too focused in Argentina and probably don't have the capacoty to ofeer conections with Southamerica, CM are still in very close conection with SA)">CO so i don't see CM in Star. Taca can be an option but at this time it0s SA network is very limited.

At this time i really don't see any possible option for SA unless the new Varig do a good offer.

Gus
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SKY1
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting Tavong (Reply 28):
probably don't have the capacoty to ofeer conections with Southamerica

 Yeah sure
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 14):
or even LAN if Lufthansa can pursuade it.

Yeah I think *A would be for them much better than One World as Iberia has also a dense South America network
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manu
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:43 pm

I wonder if any *A execs use this type of site and read comments like this, to get free advice and input. Obviously fleet choices and alliance members won't be decided by such a forum... BUT, you never know what influence it may have.

So my 2 cents... That sucks. I really am starting to like Star's member services as I am AC elite member (Star Gold) for the first time. Formally I was Gold on AA (OneWorld), but didn't see the benefits like I do now.
 
LH526
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:45 pm

LAN turing oneworld down and moving to Star Alliance .. that's my ultimate aviation dream come true!
However I douibt it will ever become reality Sad

Mario
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RAFVC10
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:06 pm

Maybe, now, they will search a new member in South America and Aerolineas Argentinas would be the best suitable partner.

If Spanair is a member and has the same owners, why not?
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kiwiandrew

RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 33):
If Spanair is a member and has the same owners, why not?

it would be more accurate to say that they have some ownership in common -
JK is mostly owned by SK but Marsans have a small stake . Marsans own a large stake in AR , but with the current Argentinian government being in favour of 'local' ownership it is anybodies guess how long the status quo will last .
 
JoKeR
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:55 pm

Sad to see Varig get "dumped" like this; sure difficulties and fighting for survival does place it in a league of its own, but it would have been nice to see *A stick around for a member at a time of need... but I guess...

Varig, you are the weakest link, good bye...
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
OHLHD
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 30):
Yeah I think *A would be for them much better than One World as Iberia has also a dense South America network

What has that to do with LAN? Iberia has a large EU to South America Network and LAN has just a dense South America Network....my guess is that this works quite good.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 35):
Sad to see Varig get "dumped" like this; sure difficulties and fighting for survival does place it in a league of its own, but it would have been nice to see *A stick around for a member at a time of need... but I guess...

Varig, you are the weakest link, good bye...

Very well sad.... gives some kind of insidelook how *A really works.... my 2 cents... when we need you you are welcome...once you need us....bye bye
 
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acontador
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:06 am

I would love to see LAN changing over to Star. Why?
Today Lan cannot effectively expand their operations into Europe, and they are "forced" to use MAD as their hub for other destinations in Europe, since they need to use IB. The same flight continues to FRA, which of course would suite perfectly well as a new hub for Europe using LH (or AMS or CDG for that matter). As for Sky, I do not see them using SCL as a hub for all of South America, but then again most members already have direct flights to the most important destinations, so Lan could very well play a secondary hub role to less interesting destinations.
North America is another big market for Lan, in which now basically competes with AA and Delta (and gains good access to both inter USA market and Caribbean/central America one). Here, Continental seems to be a perfect match.
Overall, for me at least many things that Lan could gain and little to loose.
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
bsbisland
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:52 am

Nothing unexpected. Other airlines such as LH and TP (?) had already canceled their code-shares with RG some time ago.

Its going to be difficult to fill the gap Varig HAD in the past with an extensive international and domestic network. Varig had the hole for Brazil and deep South American Countries, and now there is not much choice left. I would say LAN and TAM. LAN is already in OW and TAM has declared more than once that they are not interested to be in any alliance. Gol is an LCC and they are doing fine by their on. I believe they have (or at least they had) some inteline agreements with airlines such as Air France, Delta and Copa. Star Alliance still have TAP flying to six Brazilian cities, and main cities in Brazil such as Rio or Sao Paulo still have Star carries such as UA, LH, AC, TP and others.

I believe Taca or Avianca serve other markets, maybe they can be interesting for Star alliance but not for the gap Varig left.

Maybe the new Varig goes back to Star Alliance. I read they intend to return in the next days (months ?) to LHR, MEX, MAD and somewhere else I dont remember along with the already reinstated FRA, EZE, BOG and CCS plus 16 Brazilian cities.

Without Varig, could we see LH back to GIG? GIG-FRA used to be one of the most successful routes for RG, and LH had dropped GIG in favour of RG.
 
SKY1
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Acontador (Reply 37):
I would love to see LAN changing over to Star.

I don't think LAN is unhappy within oneworld, so there is not need for a change at all.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Avianca could be a name, but they need to improve their network in Brazil with Ocean Air.

Indeed, but remeber Brazil is not South America. AV would only need to add some frequency to SCL and EZE and done.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 22):
Nah, AV is not that relevant in South American skies, and I don't see a LCC in Star either. How many Star members fly to BOG?

Only AC flies to BOG, and for now, RG. And then comes the typical chilean i-think-im-really-hot thing. AV is relevant, from the north of the continent it is the only strong carrier, it flies to Europe and has a dense network to the US. t has subsidiaries in two other countries, and moves loads of cargo via Deprisa. Believe me AV is very relevant, maybe not in Chile, as the market is very small, but in other countries that is not the case.

Quoting Tavong (Reply 28):
AV would be nice but i really don't see this happenning, AV isn't interested in an Alliance and they're doing fine with Codeshares.

Actually, i see AV in Skyteam 100 times before joinig Star. But if P5 is added as an associate member, i do see AV is star.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 33):
Maybe, now, they will search a new member in South America and Aerolineas Argentinas would be the best suitable partner.

Actually, what destinations can you reach from EZE without backtraking...

Argentina, SCL and Australasia. (SQ already takes care of the latter)

The best positioned hub for star right now is BOG, but i doubt it will happen soon. BOG is a major Skyteam station (DL, CO, CM, AF), followed by Oneworld (AA, IB, LA) and star is just the pathetic little one (AC).
 
SKY1
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
Brazil is not South America.

 Silly

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
AV is relevant,

AV is relevant ...within Colombia. And no more (sorry, but facts are facts)

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
i see AV in Skyteam 100 times before joinig Star. But if P5 is added as an associate member, i do see AV is star.

SkyTeam already said two years ago "no" to AV. Sorry again but AV is not a relevant carrier for a global alliance, and of course, P5 even much less.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
SQ already takes care of the latter

SQ [so far I know] doesn't serve South America.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
Indeed, but remeber Brazil is not South America. AV would only need to add some frequency to SCL and EZE and done.

But it's a single market that accounts for roughly half of the market in South America, with plenty of flights to EZE and SCL - the other two major markets in the southern cone.

Not to mention AV is not a strong carrier to Europe and only AC flies in from North America, whose traffic from Colombia is dominated by AA.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Southamerica
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 41):
AV is relevant ...within Colombia. And no more (sorry, but facts are facts)

I'd like to see what facts do you have to support that.

Facts are: 5 MILLION passengers/year, 21 international destinations, more than 60 weekly fights to the United States and a hub perfectly located for connections between the Americas.


What's the definition of "relevant", by the way?



SOUTHAMERICA
 
legacy135
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 43):
I'd like to see what facts do you have to support that.

Facts are: 5 MILLION passengers/year, 21 international destinations, more than 60 weekly fights to the United States and a hub perfectly located for connections between the Americas.

I absolutely agree. AV has with it's BOG hub a very favorable location, making connections to about any South American as also European, Caribbean and North American City convenient and fast. AV is furthermore a reliable airline, having lots of expirience and a good service.

TAM indeed is a great airline, as LAN is a fine airline as well. But their locations are now really not making sense in a spoke system at all. Or who wants to fly in the opposite direction for connecting?

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SKY1
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 43):
I'd like to see what facts do you have to support that.

The same yourself already said. Or maybe AV is right now as big as LH??

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 43):
5 MILLION passengers/year,

Make a comparison with airlines type UA, AA, AF, LH, SQ, CX, etc ...they are relevant --including LA in South America-- unlike AV. AV is a carrier with the same size that UX, for instance.

Neither Oneworld, nor Sky nor Star need AV as a member right now. I don't know tomorrow, but certainly not today. An example about this is SkyTeam. I'm going to say again: SkyT already said two years ago "no" to AV.

But anyhow, it doesn't mean AV is a bad airline. It only means AV currently doesn't fit in any global alliance.

On the other hand, AV is having codeshare with IB, AC, DL, MX and TA ...and it's working well.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 43):
a hub perfectly located for connections between the Americas

Yes, is nearly in the middle, but do you really think a stop at BOG is mandatory to fly from SCL or EZE to LAX, MIA or JFK?? Or out GRU to USA and Canada?
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Southamerica
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 45):
The same yourself already said. Or maybe AV is right now as big as LH?

You completely missed the point. It is OBVIOUS that AV is incomparable to LH, just like any other Latin American airline is [except maybe JJ]. Not even LA comes close to LH in terms of shear fleet size and network. Don't imply things I never said, please. I never even mentioned anything about Avianca joining an alliance.

My response was headed to your comment "Avianca is relevant within Colombia, and no more". You seem to make these statements very lightly Andres, without even stopping to think what they mean. If that's the point, then Mexicana is only relevant within Mexico, Copa within Panama, and Aerolineas Argentinas within Argentina. You know that's not true. Avianca has been an international carrier for many decades, and currently holds an international network that cannot be ignored that easily.

Look, I don't know if Avianca or Aerolineas Argentinas meet the requisites needed to join an alliance; maybe yes, maybe no, apparently you don't know either. But, for now, both are two decent developing airlines, with different markets, different strenghts and weaknesses, and I still haven't seen one single reason to put one below the other.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
Arcano
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 45):
Yes, is nearly in the middle, but do you really think a stop at BOG is mandatory to fly from SCL or EZE to LAX, MIA or JFK?? Or out GRU to USA and Canada?

Not sure, since stupid LAN is trying to convince us that the damn stop in LIM is mandatory indeed!

BOG could host a nice hub but the altitude won't allow it, and not with current AV with almost unexistant long haul destinations and wide fleet. baybe in Europe you could need such airline, as Czech or Malev, but not in South America where we don't have such flight density.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
Only AC flies to BOG, and for now, RG. AV is relevant, from the north of the continent it is the only strong carrier

CM from Panama (just around the corner) is doing 1000% better job in "the north of the continent" than AV, and with TA they are really a very good choice for linking not not only up there, but North, Central and South America and the Caribbean.

Just check the great network of CM and how amazing they do at their hub of the americas, check how Chilean and Argentine pax are willing to stop in Panama for the great alternative they are.

So facts? where is AV? right! linking Medellin, Cali and FLL! not at all relevant hubbing that could fit in an alliance. As Sky1 said, this is not intended to critizice AV, only saying that they need to grow a lot first of thinking of joining an alliance

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
And then comes the typical chilean i-think-im-really-hot thing

 Yeah sure and that would be typical Colombian envy and complex of inferiority?
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SKY1
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 46):
Avianca has been an international carrier for many decades, and currently holds an international network that cannot be ignored that easily.

Federico, I respect your point of view but AV doesn't characterize itself for having a great international route network.

As an airline which was founded in 1919 AV has a great past and a lot of experience as a carrier but AV is not a relevant airline. It's more than obvious.

I've been 3 times in Colombia, you are colombian and your national pride are very strong. I can understand it, but this issue is not subjective.

Also I prefer a small, reliable airline over another one bigger but mediocre.
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JAL
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RE: Varig Dropped From Star Alliance

Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:49 am

Who will take it's place in the alliance South American network? I very much doubt Lan will leave OneWorld as they are quite happpy in OneWorld so that leaves either TAM or Aeroleneas Argentinas.
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