aviator737
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:22 pm

Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:12 am

Just recently there has been a lot on the news about the fog that has coated Heathrow airport, and that BA has cancelled almost all of their flights. Why have they done this - surely the pilots can use autoland or with the aid of the ils. Also, what affect will this have on the ATC, wouldnt they be able to operate as usual. Finally, why has this only really affected BA. Wouldnt other airlines operating here have just the same problem?
Its only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny that you realise how often they burst into flames
 
LHRjc
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:31 am

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Aviator737 (Thread starter):
Wouldnt other airlines operating here have just the same problem?

Yes, but LHR is BA's base, and so the majority of traffic in and out of LHR is by BA's aircraft. BD have cancelled some services too, but they don't have as many flights as BA and therefore are affected less.

Quoting Aviator737 (Thread starter):
surely the pilots can use autoland or with the aid of the ils.

Again, yes. But because the tower can't see the planes, and the planes can't see each other on the ground, the rate at which th aircraft can take off and land has to be reduced for safety reasons, rather than technological ones. Once the aircraft has landed there is no automated system to help them navigate on the ground and therefore they taxy more slowly.

You may find some more info here: Fog In LHR... Major Delays? (by WILCO737 Dec 20 2006 in Civil Aviation)
"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
 
aviator737
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:22 pm

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:40 am

Thanks a lot. I didnt think about taxing, which is probably the main reason
Its only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny that you realise how often they burst into flames
 
vv701
Posts: 5805
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:44 am

The problem is not on approach or departure but on the GROUND where autoland means nothing as visual is the key element. So BAA has doubled the MINIMUM aircraft separation in the air to reduce ground (taxiing) congestion and the chances of ground collision.

Since at a MAXIMUM this reduces the number of arrivals and departures by 50 per cent it is a little misleading to say

Quoting Aviator737 (Thread starter):
that BA has cancelled almost all of their flights

According to BA they are cancelling all their domestic flights and (possibly) some European flights. This is clearly not 'almost all their flights' or, indeed as many as half their flights.

It is also incorrect to say that this

Quoting Aviator737 (Thread starter):
has this only really affected BA

What is true is that it has affected BA more than any other airline because BA operates more flights from LHR than any other airline and is based there. So for our beloved media they are a much better story than any other airline.
 
LHRjc
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:31 am

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Aviator737 (Reply 2):
Thanks a lot.

You're welcome. There's a lot of people a lot more qualified than me on here who can probably elaborate more but glad to help  Wink Welcome to airliners.net by the way !

JC
"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
 
flylondon
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:37 am

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 3):
According to BA they are cancelling all their domestic flights and (possibly) some European flights. This is clearly not 'almost all their flights' or, indeed as many as half their flights.

It is also incorrect to say that this

Very true. They've (wisely) cancelled flights where there is the alternative of the train. So domestic flights plus Paris and Brussels. The only reason it has become such a big news story is because people can't get home for Christmas.
Denver airport has also been shut down but you don't see as much fuss about that.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4493
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting FlyLondon (Reply 5):
Denver airport has also been shut down but you don't see as much fuss about that.

Not in the UK, maybe; but pathetic "human interest" stories about DEN's snow ruining Christmas for thousands - or is it millions by now? - are all over the news in the US.
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: Affect Of Fog On Airliners

Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:03 am

Well during the winter, even DEL airport sees a lot of delays due to fog especially in the domestic sectors since private airlines' pilots aren't trained on the ILS CATIIIB system (only on rwy 28/10). So the airport cannot operate the other rwy (27/9) simulatenously when the RVR drops to about 400m.

However, most international airlines fly in and out just fine with some delays and a lot of airlines change their arrival departure slots to overcome this problem, this has been a persistent problem for delhi airport since the last 4 or 5 years.

There is always chaos at the domestic terminal since there is not enough room to house the passengers who have to wait due to delays but now that the airport has gone to the GMR, some improvements have been made, still however, the major newspapers in India have stories about delays etc. and the not so happy people.

I think during such situations patience really need to become a virtue!!!  Smile
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