FlySSC
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Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:23 pm

In an internal publication, Air France announced part of its expansion plan for the period 2007 to 2009.

Two new long haul destinations : the "return" to DFW and the long waited SJO (San Jose de Costa Rica) nonstop from CDG.

Other interesting informations are :

North America :
LAX : 3 x Daily
JFK : 6 x Daily, with a new late departure from CDG and a daylight flight leaving JFK at 7:45AM to land in CDG at 9:45PM
YUL : 4 x Daily

South America :
SCL : 1 x Daily nonstop
GIG : 2 x Daily (winter) nonstop
GRU : 2 x Daily nonstop

Africa & Middle East
THR : 1 x Daily
JNB : 2 x Daily
NKC : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE
NDJ : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE
JED : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE
RUH : 1 x Daily A319ER DEDICATE

Asia

PVG : 2 x Daily
CAN : 6 x Weekly
HKG : 2 x Daily
MAA : 5 x Weekly
BLR : 1 x Daily
NRT : 3 x Daily, then 2 x Daily with the A380

AF also announced the beginning of the retirement of the oldest A320-100 (6 from ORY, 6 from CDG). They will be replaced by A321.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:47 pm

Interesting list there and thanks for sharing.

Some of the additions in this announcement have already been loaded in the schedules for the current winter and upcoming summer offerings. The additional JFK rotation with daylight eastbound sector has been loaded for next summer with A332. The double daily GRU service is being introduced as we speak. A fourth daily frequency to YUL - probably only during the summer - doesn't come as a surpise, seeing as how this route is absolutely packed during the summer months.

Some surprise at a return to DFW, though. I though that AF would be pretty content by only serving IAH, and that other US gateways, such as SEA or DEN might have gotten priority over DFW. It also seems that AF is not returning to CVG next summer, and that the CDG CVG route will be served by just one daily DL-operated B763.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
South America :
SCL : 1 x Daily nonstop
GIG : 2 x Daily (winter) nonstop
GRU : 2 x Daily nonstop

So no third destination in Brazil after all, but instead a reinforcement during the peak months of the existing and very popular CDG GIG route. I'm pretty sure this additional flight is going to operate as a daylight southbound sector, just like the existing second daily CDG GRU flight.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Asia

PVG : 2 x Daily
CAN : 6 x Weekly
HKG : 2 x Daily
MAA : 5 x Weekly
BLR : 1 x Daily
NRT : 3 x Daily, then 2 x Daily with the A380

HKG is being upgraded to 13 weekly, from the current 10, at the start of the summer season already, so no surprise there. PVG will be needing the extra premium capacity when the current 10 weekly flights will have reverted to the retrofitted B772s. I am surprised at the prospected increase of CAN, as the Europe-CAN routes are generally not doing as well as many people believe.

In India, BLR is already served daily as we speak, and I would expect that the current A332 on that route would be upgraded to something larger at some point. A further building of the relatively young MAA service seems like a logical next step.

I am surprised not to see SIN in your list. The current CDG SIN B77W service is doing very well, not the least because of the successful QF cooperation for interline connections to a range of gateways in Australia. As such, I would have expected additional SIN service at some point, likely to be scheduled with a daylight westbound sector, just like the additional HKG services.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:52 pm

Go Santiago! What is the current route/frequencies of CDG-SCL?

I see nothing is mentioned about Tahiti. Didn't they just downgrade that flight to a 3 weekly 343?
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expans

Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
I see nothing is mentioned about Tahiti. Didn't they just downgrade that flight to a 3 weekly 343?

The "weirdest" thing is that it's no longer a direct flight from CDG. There will be separate CDG-LAX and LAX-Tahiti flights. But then again, from a passenger's point of view it doesn't change anything since you would have to disembark and embark at LAX on a direct flight, too.
AY and ANA rock!
 
rootsair
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Two new long haul destinations : the "return" to DFW and the long waited SJO (San Jose de Costa Rica) nonstop from CDG.

thank god....I can now have the choice between IB and AF. Its excellent news for SJO . however its too bad KL won't restart the route.
Do you know when its due to start? do you know what aircraft will be used on the route?

Regards

BM
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:50 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
AF also announced the beginning of the retirement of the oldest A320-100 (6 from ORY, 6 from CDG). They will be replaced by A321.

Were any dates mentioned? And what about the last remaining A320-100 (13 are currently in operation)?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
South America :
SCL : 1 x Daily nonstop
GIG : 2 x Daily (winter) nonstop
GRU : 2 x Daily nonstop

Thanks for sharing Pierre. Good to see AF confirming what we all times discuss here, the condition and demand to run a second flight. I believe in the future AF can even run at least 10 weekly flights year round.
Also interesting to see AF development in SCL !
Who's next, another flight to EZE ?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
So no third destination in Brazil after all, but instead a reinforcement during the peak months of the existing and very popular CDG GIG route. I'm pretty sure this additional flight is going to operate as a daylight southbound sector, just like the existing second daily CDG GRU flight.

Also will provide a very good alternative on AF network as we do not keep a service CDG-GIG daily-light. It will be the 3rd GIG-CDG daily flight, amazing how France become a major player on Brazilian market. With this new seasonal flight (in the future), will be 7 daily flights! Only EZE, SCL (closer destinations) and MIA keep more services than CDG.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
It also seems that AF is not returning to CVG next summer,

This is confirmed.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
I am surprised not to see SIN in your list. The current CDG SIN B77W service is doing very well, not the least because of the successful QF cooperation for interline connections to a range of gateways in Australia. As such, I would have expected additional SIN service at some point, likely to be scheduled with a daylight westbound sector, just like the additional HKG services.

True. It was mentionned a few months ago in the same publication that AF was thinking about the A380 on CDG-SIN to face the increasing demand,thanks to the excellent results of the codeshare with QF. A possible second frequency on certain days was also a mentionned, waiting for the A380 but I am not sure about the AF's traffic rights and the bilateral agreement on that line.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
What is the current route/frequencies of CDG-SCL?

SCL is served 4 x Weekly nonstop (B772ER) during this winter.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
I see nothing is mentioned about Tahiti. Didn't they just downgrade that flight to a 3 weekly 343?

No. PPT is now served 4 x Weekly (A343) instead of 3 x Weekly (B744). Frequencies are planned to be added to compete with ATN and if the demand requires.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 4):
Its excellent news for SJO .
Do you know when its due to start? do you know what aircraft will be used on the route?

No dates indication yet. But I'll keep you informed ...  Wink
Aircraft is most likely to be A343.


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rootsair
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
Aircraft is most likely to be A343.

just for that I'll stick to IB and their A346-- Too bad they don't bring the 777
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
mk777
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:50 am

What a/c does AF use to DEL during the summer?? When i flew in June 2004, it was an A343, is it still this one?? I know for the winter they switch to the B744!
come fly with me
 
YULspotter
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
YUL : 4 x Daily



Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
A fourth daily frequency to YUL - probably only during the summer - doesn't come as a surprise, seeing as how this route is absolutely packed during the summer months.

From what I have heard, the fourth flight is for the summer months. Out of the 4 flights, AF is planning to send 2 x 744's daily during the summer peak. It's no wonder AF is planning to use the A380 in it's CDG-YUL route.

YULspotter
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
just for that I'll stick to IB and their A346-- Too bad they don't bring the 777

Nothing official yet, but it should be the A343 as I don't think there will be enough "Premium Class" demand to operate a B772ER, at least during the first months following the "openning".

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 9):
What a/c does AF use to DEL during the summer?? When i flew in June 2004, it was an A343, is it still this one?? I

Yes. A343 during the summer to DEL.
 
foxxray
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
JFK : 6 x Daily, with a new late departure from CDG and a daylight flight leaving JFK at 7:45AM to land in CDG at 9:45PM

That's cool ! AF will have 7 daily flights to NYC (6 to JFK and 1 to EWR) !
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:52 am

Thank you for a very interesting update.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
JFK : 6 x Daily, with a new late departure from CDG and a daylight flight leaving JFK at 7:45AM to land in CDG at 9:45PM

I am very curious to see how this works out.....daylight fights to Europe and late evening departures from Europe are difficult proposiitons.....and airlines have avoided these types of services. Daylight services in recent years have been limited to routes into business heavy Heathrow airport. Years ago, TWA had a JFK-CDG daylight flight (with a L1011 I believe) that came and went a few times depending upon season.....but that was then and this is now, AF should be able to make this flight work (I assume it will be an A332 service) that will in a certain way reflect the discontinued Concorde services.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Asia

Its good to see AF offering new services and expanding its presence in Asia.....there was a period where AF lagged behind other European carriers with respect to this part of the world. AF is now catching up - good news.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
AF also announced the beginning of the retirement of the oldest A320-100 (6 from ORY, 6 from CDG). They will be replaced by A321.

First BA and now AF are planning to retire the oldest members of the A32X family.....the early build A320-100s. It will be interesting to see if any other carrier will acquire these ""unusual"" airplanes, or if they will simply be broken up for parts at the conclusion of their service for AF.
 
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skippy777
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:55 am

I don't understand why they don't fly to Australia / New Zealand?

KLM stopped and also from the Skyteam only Korean Air is flying to Australia and they have not a good connection if you want to fly from Europe.

You have to stay over for one day.
 
cxb744
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 3):
The "weirdest" thing is that it's no longer a direct flight from CDG. There will be separate CDG-LAX and LAX-Tahiti flights. But then again, from a passenger's point of view it doesn't change anything since you would have to disembark and embark at LAX on a direct flight, too.

There is one direct flight to Tahiti from CDG on Thursdays and coming from Tahiti on Mondays. This is when they cycle in and out the A343 that plys between LAX & PPT. (Source: www.airfrance.us)
What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting Skippy777 (Reply 14):
I don't understand why they don't fly to Australia / New Zealand?

There have been many threads on this topic, some in recent days....Europe-Australia service has been dropped by almost all European carriers because:

1. The route is long and ties up airplanes for days on end.

2. The yeilds are not good considering the distance flown.

3. There is limited F and J class traffic.

4. Its easier and more effecient to fly from Europe to Australia via an Aisan hub city.....depart from the European airport of choice, transfer in Asia, continue to Australian city of choice and vice versa.

5. Code shares with Asian airlines have relieved the need for European airlines to put their own metal into Australia......AF works with QF for example.

6. The only very profitable routes between Europe and Australia are London to SYD/MEL.....even FRA/SYD is marginal. There is a reason why QF dropped service to cities like CDG an FCO, why LH, AF, KL, etc no longer fly to Australia, and even Austrian is dropping service to Austrlaia after years of flyint this niche route under the Lauda banner.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
I am very curious to see how this works out.....daylight fights to Europe and late evening departures from Europe are difficult proposiitons.....and airlines have avoided these types of services. Daylight services in recent years have been limited to routes into business heavy Heathrow airport. Years ago, TWA had a JFK-CDG daylight flight (with a L1011 I believe) that came and went a few times depending upon season.....but that was then and this is now, AF should be able to make this flight work (I assume it will be an A332 service) that will in a certain way reflect the discontinued Concorde services.

The late departure from CDG will be a success, for sure.
The daylight flight to CDG will land at 9:00PM and will offer a perfect connection to the late AF departure flights particularly to Africa (and Oil destinations) and Asia.
The flight will be indeed operated by an A332.

CDG. 9:00PM ---> JFK.11:15PM AF004 - A332 - DAILY

JFK. 7:50AM ---> CDG. 9:00PM AF005 - A332 - DAILY
 
tomascubero
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 11):
Nothing official yet, but it should be the A343 as I don't think there will be enough "Premium Class" demand to operate a B772ER, at least during the first months following the "openning".

Thanks for some of the best news we have had this year for SJO! I guess its a new year and a new flight!

I would be happy with the A343 but a 772ER would be one of the best things that happened to SJO, after we have not had a visit from one of those since 2001 back when BA brought them.

Any idea when its going to start? Hopefully it will be soon and hopefully the arrival/departure times are released soon too.

Thanks for this great update!
Tomas.
 
Pbb152
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:17 am

Any Idea what a/c they will use to DFW? 777, 340, or 330?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 19):
Any Idea what a/c they will use to DFW? 777, 340, or 330?

An A343 or A332 I would assume.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:50 am

AF seem to be using their 332's on route prooving, to destinations such as BLR, so we can expect the same to DFW - interestingly they are using 343's to MAA, when DL used the 763
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
First BA and now AF are planning to retire the oldest members of the A32X family.....the early build A320-100s. It will be interesting to see if any other carrier will acquire these ""unusual"" airplanes, or if they will simply be broken up for parts at the conclusion of their service for AF.



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 5):
Were any dates mentioned? And what about the last remaining A320-100 (13 are currently in operation)?

Probably a "typo" ... or is it again the "legend" of F-GFKQ (msn 02) supposed to be converted into a -200 ?

6 A320-100 are indeed based at Orly (config = 172 Y), previously operated by Air Inter :

msn 10 = F-GGEA delivered on 17/06/1988
msn 12 = F-GGEB delivered on 05/08/1988
msn 13 = F-GGEC delivered on 29/09/1988
msn 16 = F-GGEE delivered on 03/03/1989
msn 04 = F-GGEF delivered on 07/07/1989 previously used by Airbus Ind. for test flights .
msn 03 = F-GGEG delivered on 20/10/1989 previously used by Airbus Ind. for test flights.

Based at CDG, delivered to Air France directly :

msn 05 = F-GFKA delivered on 26/03/1988
msn 07 = F-GFKB delivered on 18/05/1988
msn 14 = F-GFKD delivered on 10/10/1988
msn 19 = F-GFKE delivered on 29/10/1988
msn 20 = F-GFKF delivered on 20/02/1989
msn 21 = F-GFKG delivered on 17/02/1989

and the oldest A320-100 in service :

msn 02 = F-GFKQ delivered to AF on 08/02/1991. Previously used by Airbus Industries.


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Two aircraft are missing in this list  tombstone :

msn 09, F-GFKC delivered to AF on June 23rd 1988, crashed in Habsheim during a demo flight 3 days later on June 26th 1988.

msn 15, F-GGED delivered to Air Inter on 22/12/1988, crashed while approaching SXB, operating flight IT5148 LYS-SXB on Jan.20th 1992.

As you can see, all these venerable A320 will be around 20 years old when they will be retired by AF ... to be replaced by A321 !
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 21):
AF seem to be using their 332's on route prooving, to destinations such as BLR, so we can expect the same to DFW - interestingly they are using 343's to MAA, when DL used the 763

The A332 offers more Business Class seats : 40J / 179Y

The A343 are configured with "only" 30J/261Y or 36J/236Y.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 8):
just for that I'll stick to IB and their A346-- Too bad they don't bring the 777

Hey, they are starting the route and the 777s are only for very premium-heavy routes....give them a break....

I canñt believe how much flights YUL gets, it´s plain impressive. AC is missing the boat on that one.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Two new long haul destinations : the "return" to DFW and the long waited SJO (San Jose de Costa Rica) nonstop from CDG.

YES!!! Finally a carrier that has decided to challenge IB on the Europe-SJO market. Big grin I reckon, an A343, especially those with 30J seats would be the right sized aircraft due to the limited premium demand.

I wonder how frequencies will be. I guess a thrice weekly CDG-SJO would be good for a start, before there is a chance of it going daily. And also, will KL codeshare on this route with AF?
 
paneuropean
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:30 am

Wow, impressive changes. Are all these Kennedy flights CDG bound or are there also flights from ORY. I am not familiar with their ORD and ORY schedules, but I guess all US flights leave from deGaulle ?
 
Humberside
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 26):
Wow, impressive changes. Are all these Kennedy flights CDG bound or are there also flights from ORY. I am not familiar with their ORD and ORY schedules, but I guess all US flights leave from deGaulle ?

All US flights from CDG. Only transatlantic flights from Orly at to the French teritories in the Carribbean
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:55 am

WOW!!

SCL NONSTOP!
Now Iberia have a serious competitor to Europe from Chile.
 
paneuropean
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 26):
I am not familiar with their ORD and ORY schedules

Obviously, I meant CDG is ORD.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Some surprise at a return to DFW, though. I though that AF would be pretty content by only serving IAH, and that other US gateways, such as SEA or DEN might have gotten priority over DFW. It also seems that AF is not returning to CVG next summer, and that the CDG CVG route will be served by just one daily DL-operated B763.

Surprise to me as well AF returning to DFW. There was a recent topic on this one. Given AF(KL) little chance flying to Dallas. But I guess the Northern Texas economy is booming. I hope there will be room for KLM to add something new to the States in addition to their recent announcements and those of AF.

Cincinnati still seems a destination which which doesn't seem to develop. It seems quite logical to me CVG will only be served by Delta, but they are keeping their 763 on that route. AMS unfortunately remains seasonal.

Is their competition on the CDG- LAX flights ?
 
vincewy
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:23 am

Besides NRT and YUL, what are other possible A380 destinations planned by AF?
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 30):
Besides NRT and YUL, what are other possible A380 destinations planned by AF?

NRT, YUL, JFK, PEK, LAX

AF A380 deliveries :

3 first a/c during the summer 2009. A total fleet of 6 A380 during summer 2010, 8 in 2001, 10 in 2012.
 
SKY1
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:39 am

HI FlySSC!

What about CDG-EZE? might be more weekly flights?

There will be new destinations such as CPT or KUL, or this is only for the KLM network?
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
cba
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:12 am

Interesting news. Sorry to pose a naive question, but can someone explain to me exactly what the A319ER Dedicate is?
 
flyyul
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:20 am

I still dont understand why Air France hasnt given Orlando-Paris a chance.

There should be a fair level of corporate between the two cities, given disney. As well, MCO remains an interesting leisure destination year-round.
 
HT
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 33):
but can someone explain to me exactly what the A319ER Dedicate is?

Long range A319 employed on (long) routes with premium traffic; the most "luxurious" in AF's stable has 79 seats of which 32 are Business class.
IIRC, this type of traffic first was employed to the "oil" destinations in the southern parts of West Africa.

A off-spring of these is the All-Business-class service that KL runs from AMS to IAH using PrivatAir's BBJ with 44C-layout (which I will sample in a month from now Big grin ).
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 34):

There should be a fair level of corporate between the two cities, given disney.

Corportate traffic goes to Burbank, not Orlando.

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 34):
As well, MCO remains an interesting leisure destination year-round.

Not for the French, especially with Disneyland Paris in their own backyard. Orlando doesn't receive many tourists from Europe outside of UK and Ireland. Miami remains the destination of choice for Europeans coming to Florida.
a.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 33):
Sorry to pose a naive question, but can someone explain to me exactly what the A319ER Dedicate is?

It's a Long range version of the A319.
"Dedicate" is the name given by AF to this long haul product.
The aircraft are equipped with 28J / 54Y. Its enables AF to offer high Frequencies on long thin routes with premium traffic particularly the "Oil destinations" where a Classic long haul widebody would be too large and unprofitable.
Destinations served from CDG are : NKC, SSG, PNR, RUH, JED, NDJ.
 
SKY1
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RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting HT (Reply 35):
the most "luxurious" in AF's stable has 79 seats of which 32 are Business class.

It's curious: 3 years ago it had 82 seats, 4 seats less in Business Class (28 l'Espace Affaires, 54 in Tempo)
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 17):
CDG. 9:00PM ---> JFK.11:15PM AF004 - A332 - DAILY

JFK. 7:50AM ---> CDG. 9:00PM AF005 - A332 - DAILY

I thought AF4 and AF5 were the EWR flights. Are those getting renumbered?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
BigJimFX
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:25 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:10 am

Exciting to see another piece of European metal on the ground @ DFW.... Any Idea when the service will begin?.... Frequency?....
I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
 
FlySSC
Topic Author
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 39):
I thought AF4 and AF5 were the EWR flights. Are those getting renumbered?

Right. AF004/005 used to be the EWR flight.
It is now AF018/019.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 29):
Is their competition on the CDG- LAX flights ?

Air France has the LA-Paris route to its own with the exception of Air Tahiti Nui which runs it daily in the summer and 5x weekly in the winter.

Over the years, TWA, United and AA have all tried offering their own Paris nonstops without too much financial success (even with good loads) proving the point that West Coast-Europe nonstops are hard to operate particularly for US airlines.

The AF/KL US sales team, has for a long time wanted 5 daily nonstops between LAX and the AMS/CDG hubs to provide a steady bridge for connection opportunities which both carriers seems to do very well with from LAX. Summer 2007 should be fun to watch as to how this schedule works out.
If considered jointly, the AF/KL duo is the largest European carrier to LA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3645
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 28):
Now Iberia have a serious competitor to Europe from Chile.

LAN....

Does AF have plans to fly the A380 maybe from 2010 to GIG or CCS???? (very high density routes)
 
1981
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:15 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:34 am

I think DAILY flights to some countries it's not good because the aircrafts dont have good load factors DAILY
 
stevens91
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:50 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:42 am

Great news !!!!! 5x week to MAA ....
I guess two A340 are needed for the rotations, am I right ?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 28):
SCL NONSTOP!
Now Iberia have a serious competitor to Europe from Chile.

The CDG SCL nonstop flights were reintroduced last winter (2005-2006) and are back this winter, with a five times weekly B772ER service. Next summer, AF will continue to operate these nonstops for the first time during the low season, albeit only thrice weekly, complemented by a thrice weekly CDG EZE SCL direct service. I believe we could see daily nonstop service to SCL as soon as next winter.

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 29):
Cincinnati still seems a destination which which doesn't seem to develop.

I don't know what has been happening at CVG lately, but Europe-CVG interhub routes seemed to be doing better a couple of years ago as an alternative to Delta's busy ATL hub. Remember that Sabena, during the height of the SR/SN-DL partnership brought the B743 to CVG because of the huge success of the route and a couple of years ago, at the beginning of the AF-DL cooperation, AF used to operate the B742 there.

It seems, however, that Delta has been somewhat dismantling this secondary transatlantic hub - a while ago, it was mentioned that the seasonal CVG AMS run would not return daily next summer either - and that one of the results is that Air France will not be returning there next summer. The sole AF-operated CDG ATL flight is being upgraded to a B744 though, from the current A343.
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:46 am

SJO? Where will they get the feed? Especially TACA and Air France cancelled the Central American codeshare 2 months ago.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 47):
SJO? Where will they get the feed?

I was thinking that as well. In the past, there had been rumblings of a new KL/AF route to Central America, and for a while PTY was part of the plan, because interline connectivity through Skyteam Associated Member Copa would be available there. The choice for a dedicated SJO flight seems a bit odd, but then we don't know the exact reasons behind this choice.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Air France New Long Haul Destinations & Expansion

Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 47):
SJO? Where will they get the feed?

SJO is a major focus city for CM. It has at least some 4 to 5 daily flights, some of those being stopovers, which might turn out to be advantageous for passengers, as they would not need to backtrack down to PTY if they need to fly to certain destinations further North. I guess there have to be 5th Freedom Rights involved, or else CM might not be doing these stopovers in SJO.

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