1981
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Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:45 am

I think ATH could get a hub between Europe Asia & Africa OA shoulda start think flights for
Saudi Arabia (JED Wx3 / RUH Wx3)
India (BOM Wx3)
China (PEK Daily / PVG Wx3 / HKG Wx3)
Japan (NRT Wx3 / KIX Wx3)
Malaysia & Australia (ATH-KUL-MEL-SYD-MEL-KUL-ATH Wx3)
All above can be done only with 10 Long Haul (A340/B772 e.t.c)
Instead of doing we let THY to do it and a minor airport such as IST has been trasformed into a hub and if we want to the above destinations we have to go transit
 
Avianca
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:59 am

as I know the long-houl (even the short-houl) of the former Olympic never made money. Personally I do not see much market for it.

Quoting 1981 (Thread starter):
All above can be done only with 10 Long Haul (A340/B772 e.t.c)

I think your listed flights could be done even with 6 or 7 aircrafts.

cheers
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EFHK
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:19 am

Does OA currently have any long-haul flights then? I thought they had a few A340-300s.
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting EFHK (Reply 2):
Does OA currently have any long-haul flights then? I thought they had a few A340-300s.

4 of them to be precise, plus a few A300-600s, which were used for their JNB flights (with a stopover obviously) last I knew.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
as I know the long-houl (even the short-houl) of the former Olympic never made money. Personally I do not see much market for it.

Olympic is still not making any money. And as the past has shown, OA will never be a real candidate to compete in the longhaul connection market, and neither will ATH be. There are simply enough other established hub airports one can connect on, most of which also have more flight choices. Launching a new large hub would require a lot of investment, doubtful for a carrier that's seen it's government put hundreds of millions into it to keep it flying and who is now seeing the EU demanding that money to be paid back.
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:51 pm

Long haul???
Thank God they are still flying!!  Smile
 
vincewy
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:56 pm

I'd love to see OA as a major European carrier and livery in A380 and 748, while ATH, geographically ideal for connections between Asia/Middle East/Africa and Europe, it doesn't have enough O&D traffic and population to support it, Turkey has (with 10 million people around IST) but the infrastructure isn't there, neither can be like LHR or FRA at this point.

In order to operate/sustain giant carrier like AF, it needs to have large population travelling out of its hub, this way they can offer competitive fares for transit passengers to fill the seats, ie: MEX-MAD via CDG with AF because it's the cheapest even though it backtracks.

Another example, TPE seems like bargain hunter's transit point between US and SE Asia, but last years stats showed 85% of the passengers travel in and out of TPE (O&D), without those 85% of the passengers, the other 15% won't be able to get cheap fares to SE Asia. 2 glaring exceptions are SQ and EK, but those 2 are built with VERY large networks and/or reputations.
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:01 pm

Merry Christmas everyone!!

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
4 of them to be precise, plus a few A300-600s, which were used for their JNB flights (with a stopover obviously) last I knew.

OA have 4 A340-300's and just 1 A300-600. The JNB flights are operated direct from Athens with the A340.

Quoting 1981 (Thread starter):
China (PEK Daily / PVG Wx3 / HKG Wx3)

ATH-HKG flights start supposedly on 29th March 2007.

Quoting EFHK (Reply 2):
Does OA currently have any long-haul flights then? I thought they had a few A340-300s.

Yes OA does have a few longhauls flights -

Athens - New York JFK
Athens - Toronto
Athens - Montreal (via Toronto)
Athens - Johannesburg

Until the airline get's itself sorted then there's no way that they'll get long haul. Athens is a good location but as mentioned above it doesn't have the population nor infrastructure to be a hub airport.

Nick
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dutchjet
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:07 pm

Quoting GCDEG (Reply 6):
Until the airline get's itself sorted then there's no way that they'll get long haul. Athens is a good location but as mentioned above it doesn't have the population nor infrastructure to be a hub airport

Agreed......unless and until OA, all of its employees (and there are far too many people working for OA), the Greek government and the EU can come to some type of agreement which will allow the airline to be relaunched with a business plan that makes sense for operations in the current time, OA will simply limp along and contract instead of expand. Not to be cruel, but its amazing that OA still even exists when all of its problems are considered.
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting 1981 (Thread starter):
Saudi Arabia (JED Wx3 / RUH Wx3)

OA used to fly to JED & RUH , but load factors were very poor.

Quoting 1981 (Thread starter):
Instead of doing we let THY to do it and a minor airport such as IST

IST is not a minor airport.
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OA260
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Not to be cruel, but its amazing that OA still even exists when all of its problems are considered.

Thats a credit to the hard working staff and determined Greek people who dont want OA to cease. OA so far is a survivor and with the announcement that OA is owed Eur 563 millions from the Greek government OA has been thrown another lifeline. There are certain people in Brussels that would like to see OA shut down. Brussels should get out of Greek affairs because its making alot of people Anti EU !!!

OA connects Greece to the world and also the extensive domestic network that otherwise would be cut off especially during the winter. Its a national service more than an airline. Hopefully they can do well with the HKG route and try get profitable on the other routes. It can be done but will need good management and alot of difficult decisions. This maybe the LAST time OA gets a chance. Athens has good potential for a mini hub but not a major one. If they can make a mini hub and make some profit then that would be great. As for A380's in OA livery this will never happen, the big A/C days for OA are over, the max is a 777 or A340 etc... the old 747 days are over unfortunately theres just not the demand for it.
 
EFHK
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:59 pm

If OA belonged to an alliance (they don't, right?), they could try some long-haul flights to the alliance's hubs, but other than that I feel they have to rely heavily on O/D traffic, which is apparently not that big from Athens.

How are their North American flights doing?
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Not to be cruel, but its amazing that OA still even exists when all of its problems are considered.

In total agreement with you there. What amazes me is the sheer number of airlines that have shut down while OA still limps along. Let's be honest, if 10 years ago we were to have posed the question of which airline would still be flying today, OA or SR, how many people would seriously have chose SR?
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 11):
OA or SR, how many people would seriously have chose SR?

Yeah I would have said SR would have still been around and OA not. I guess its the airline business!! SR is kind of still around as LX I dont see the difference when I flew them last week. Very similar indeed.
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:48 am

Olympic Air has always been a disater, it was the Late Oanaisis' play thing. The Greek governmemt nationalized it from him and its always been political. Most people I know who have traveled to Greece take another European airline and connect to Athens. The Greek diaspora is in Australia and America, so Olympic naturally fies or flew to those two continents.

Sydney & Melbourne are just too far from Europe to make the economics work, they should connect with a desperate Asian airline with a good network to Aussie, Malaysia Air fits this need to feed their flights to OZ.
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
Sydney & Melbourne are just too far from Europe to make the economics work, they should connect with a desperate Asian airline with a good network to Aussie, Malaysia Air fits this need to feed their flights to OZ.

OA already has a partnership in place w/GF to carry passengers from ATH-SYD and MEL.
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ThereandBack
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting 1981 (Thread starter):
Instead of doing we let THY to do it and a minor airport such as IST has been trasformed into a hub and if we want to the above destinations we have to go transit

TK has a larger hub than ATH in IST and ESB and has a larger fleet with more coming. TK already flies to NRT KIX PEK PVG HKG BOM and JED so it will be hard for OA to catch up. Now with TK's entry into the Star Alliance IST will gain even more transit passengers and flights.

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 5):
Turkey has (with 10 million people around IST) but the infrastructure isn't there,

IST needs a new airport with a very large capacity outside of the city.
 
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OA260
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:32 am

OA should start a KHI service or ISB . There is a huge population of Pakistanis in Greece at the moment also if they had good connections to other EU destinations they would pick up alot of Pakistani passengers if the fares were right. TK also flies to KHI and they do quite well on it so im told. At the moment most Pakistanis fly GF via BAH to get to ATH.

I dont see TK and IST being a much bigger hub than it is as present, theres too much competition from other carriers and hubs. Just because its comming into Star doesnt mean there will be a flood of traffic especially from Western Europe.
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting GCDEG (Reply 6):
Athens - New York JFK
Athens - Toronto
Athens - Montreal (via Toronto)
Athens - Johannesburg

It's actually the other way around. Athens to Montreal is non-stop. The plane then continues on to YYZ, comes back to YUL and then goes to ATH.

it's ATH-YUL-YYZ-YUL-ATH.

Thenoflyzone
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GCDEG
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 17):
It's actually the other way around. Athens to Montreal is non-stop. The plane then continues on to YYZ, comes back to YUL and then goes to ATH.

it's ATH-YUL-YYZ-YUL-ATH.

Thenoflyzone

Thanks Thenoflyzone that was what I meant to say but typed it the other way about. Athens-Toronto (via Montreal)

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
OA should start a KHI service or ISB . There is a huge population of Pakistanis in Greece at the moment also if they had good connections to other EU destinations they would pick up alot of Pakistani passengers if the fares were right. TK also flies to KHI and they do quite well on it so im told. At the moment most Pakistanis fly GF via BAH to get to ATH.

PIA did fly to ATH from both KHI and ISB but have now stopped. Not sure whether this was because of economics or the aircraft were needed somewhere else. OA simply don't have an aircraft to do these routes if started. The A340's are being used for JFK, YUL, YYZ, JNB and soon to be HKG.

Nick
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1981
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:20 am

Olympic also used to flY ORD / BOS & NRT the slots at ORD & NRT taken by THY,
And also at BOS is a large greek community.
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting 1981 (Reply 19):
the slots at ORD & NRT taken by THY,

Slots taken by TK?

Foreign carriers can serve ORD without any of the capacity/slot limits as imposed on domestic carriers, while NRT has been served by TK since the early 1990s with no connection to OA discontinuing either route.

TK has gone from a carrier without a single long haul route focused on domestic, European and Mid East flying 20 years ago to a global carrier all the while remaining profitable and having been spurred much by the strong economic growth Turkey has experienced during such time.

OA has repeatedly proven it cannot economically sustain diverse long haul operations except a few specific markets targeting the Greek diaspora.

Quoting 1981 (Thread starter):
I think ATH could get a hub between Europe Asia & Africa

Any attempt by OA to get in the game and trying to make ATH a East-West connection hub is quite late considering the abundance of airports that successfully already cater to such traffic. Besides previously mentioned IST and Gulf Airports, even smaller ones like RJ in Amman do a good job in addition to European carriers which leverage their large hubs successfully to carry such traffic also.


OA needs to forget any dreams and world grandeur and instead simply focus on becoming a leading quality carrier focusing on Europe and regional markets from its relatively small local market base.
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olympic707
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting EFHK (Reply 10):
How are their North American flights doing?

I know that the planes are full on the JFK-ATH, ATH-JFK routes.  crowded   yes 

Yanni
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olympic707
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
Olympic Air has always been a disater, it was the Late Oanaisis' play thing. The Greek governmemt nationalized it from him and its always been political. Most people I know who have traveled to Greece take another European airline and connect to Athens. The Greek diaspora is in Australia and America, so Olympic naturally fies or flew to those two continents.

OA a disaster?  Confused OA was a better airline when Onasis owned them. OA is still a good airline today.
Most Greeks would rather fly OA than any other airline.

Yanni
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OA260
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 20):
Any attempt by OA to get in the game and trying to make ATH a East-West connection hub is quite late

True , we were talking about this among ourselves over 10 years ago when I worked for them. Problem is just politics.

OA needs to concentrate on making its current network profitable and drop non profit routes and open ones which will make a profit followed by some good fares and amazing marketing. Will be interesting to see the HKG results after the first six months.
 
anax
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:01 am

HKG is not a good example , as it will be "sponsored" for the first year of service. Hellenic Duty Free and Folli Follie ( a big faux bijoux brand) , will "charter" the a/c and leave only 50 seats on OA's account to market and sell.
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting 1981 (Reply 19):
Olympic also used to flY ORD / BOS & NRT the slots at ORD & NRT taken by THY,
And also at BOS is a large Greek community.

Why did they end service to ORD? I know Chicago has the third largest Greek population (me included) outside of Athens and Melbourne, you would think that Chicago could support an ORD-ATH route. If OS doesn't do it, I think UA should, at least seasonally.

Who else flies to ATH non-stop from the US?

Is DL from JFK and ATL the only one?
Are these 764s? What is the frequency during Summer/Winter?
 
1981
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:38 am

Is time to start a flight to ORD by OA and to HKG will be a total disaster.
 
GCDEG
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 25):
Who else flies to ATH non-stop from the US?

Just DL and OA. If I'm not mistaken Air Transat operate flights to/from Canada (YUL and YYZ) to ATH. But that's about your lot.

Quoting United787 (Reply 25):
Is DL from JFK and ATL the only one?
Are these 764s?

They are both operated by B763s

Quoting United787 (Reply 25):
What is the frequency during Summer/Winter?

ATL is only seasonal for the Summer months and operates 1xdaily.
JFK for the summer is operated 2xdaily for a number of weeks then goes back to 1xdaily dropping to about 5xweekly for the winter.

Nick
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OA260
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Anax (Reply 24):
HKG is not a good example , as it will be "sponsored" for the first year of service. Hellenic Duty Free and Folli Follie ( a big faux bijoux brand) , will "charter" the a/c and leave only 50 seats on OA's account to market and sell.

If this arrangement goes well then maybe this will mean more OA ''sponsored'' routes. If it makes money I guess it will be a good idea. Chicago didnt do that well from what I remember. They also had a ATH-MAN-BOS but that didnt last long either using a A300-600.

To be honest alot of Greeks in USA use US airlines to fly back to Greece. I know a good few that come back every year to Athens and they always use Delta. I dont think OA would make any more money on more US routes.
 
1981
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:34 am

Look me and my compatriots prefer to fly OA but OA doesn't wan't the Greek's to fly with them
But also OA for HKG doesn't have A/C the 4 Airbus A340-300 use CDG / LHR /YMX-YYZ/ JFK / JNB and sometimes to some european destinations with high density on summer FCO / AMS / MUC / FRA / DUS / TXL / MXP
I think have to buy some Boeing B757-200 for this routes.
if go to HKG have to stop JNB
 
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OA260
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting 1981 (Reply 29):
OA doesn't wan't the Greek's to fly with them

Sorry that is the weirdest thing I ever heard . Explain your reasons???
 
rootsair
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:21 pm

Wasn't the airline supposed to be renamed "ATHENS" ? or Pantheon airways?
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alitis
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 28):
They also had a ATH-MAN-BOS but that didnt last long either using a A300-600.

That was planned at one time but never actually got started. I think it had something to do with the fact that OA wasnt allowed twin engine operations over the Atlantic and land in the US.

-Alitis
 
1981
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:59 am

OA260

Yes because by the way they are act e.g leased planes from charte companies none new short range a/c
 
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 31):
Wasn't the airline supposed to be renamed "ATHENS" ? or Pantheon airways?

There was talk of it but the name ''Olympic'' represents Greece and is a very strong brand even though the company has major financial problems OA is considered to be safe and well maintained A/C.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting GCDEG (Reply 6):
Until the airline get's itself sorted then there's no way that they'll get long haul

which should happen any time in the next twenty years or so.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Thats a credit to the hard working staff and determined Greek people who dont want OA to cease

the determination of the greek people is diminishing year on year as they have to endure such horrid service.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
Most people I know who have traveled to Greece take another European airline and connect to Athens

As OA cannot be relied upon anymore to provide an efficient and punctual service - never mind try and provide customer service. Even the safety question can be questioned as they resorted to hiring in unsafe L10-11's that were impounded by the French. I endured a rust bucket air-finland (free seating) 757 charter config aircraft, and a panorama 767 loaded with an A300 seatmap - what a disaster.

Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 22):
OA is still a good airline today

No, it is not. Its only a good airline in the minds of greek flagwavers and misty-eyed expats.
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1981
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:52 pm

OA is a good airline has the best service in ATH-LHR-ATH Route i also travel with BA not such a good service.
 
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OA260
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RE: Why Olympic Airlines Don't Get Long Haul?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 35):
No, it is not. Its only a good airline in the minds of greek flagwavers and misty-eyed expats.

Sorry mate your totally wrong!!! There are many who still enjoy the good service and clean aircraft and good food that OA still offer. You must have been on a few bad flights with stand in A/C . My family and extended family fly OA on a weekly basis for business meetings in France , Germany and UK and many of the main domestic routes and believe me I would hear if they were unhappy about the service and A/C. As I used to work for them they keep me updated on everything as they know I follow OA's progress or lack of it .

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 35):
which should happen any time in the next twenty years or so.

By which time your national carrier will be FR mate !!!! I hope OA never ends up like EI by being sold by the government and not even having the brains to hold on to a bigger share to prevent FR from taking it over. The Irish may be selling their souls but Greeks have a bit more pride.