D L X
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Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:26 am

Considering that the 787-3 is supposed to replace the 757, amongst other planes, what do you think the likelihood of seeing the 787-3 at DCA and other short fields?

The thought of widebodies at National makes me giddy a little bit.
 
N1120A
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Considering that the 787-3 is supposed to replace the 757, amongst other planes, what do you think the likelihood of seeing the 787-3 at DCA and other short fields?

The 783 is supposed to replace, in some part, the 753, not the 752 which currently is seen at National. It is entirely too large to replace the 752. Further, gates would be a major issue.

[Edited 2006-12-27 00:48:25]
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dutchjet
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:49 am

You raise an interesting question.

While the 787-3 is a much bigger airplane than the 752, it is supposed to cover the 753 market. The sad answer is that you are probably raising a moot question.....its unlikely that any US carrier will order the 787-3 for domestic services; most expect the US airlines to focus on the 787-8 and maybe 787-9 and assign the 787 to longhaul flying. Interest in the 787-3 may be limited to Japanese carriers....and maybe other Asian (chinese) airlines down the road.

To my knowledge, widebody aircraft have never been flown into DCA.....I think that there may be some regulations that limit aircraft size/weight into DCA that prevent widebodies from flying into DCA. Years ago, there was some talk of EA using A300B2s on the LGA-DCA shuttle, but I dont think that anything ever came of that. I am sure that someone has more specific information.

Looking back, airliners like the DC10-10 and L1011-1 were specifically engineered to allow operations into LGA which has short runways and weight limitations. Back in the 1970s, a good number of DC10s and L1011s operated in and out of LGA on key domestic routes......before the entire US airline system was adjusted and became very focused on hubs and high frequency services. Delta has flown 762, 763 and 764 aircraft in and out of LGA over the years.......

Thus, the key quesiton is: is the 787 being designed with LGA operations in mind?
 
D L X
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
The 783 is supposed to replace, in some part, the 753, not the 752 which currently is seen at National.

ATA every now and then sends a 753 into National. (It's REALLY obvious seeing such a big plane barreling down the Potomac.)
 
contrails
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:35 am

When the new terminal opened a few years ago the airport was supposed to be rated for a 767, although there's never been one here that I'm aware of. There was a DC-10 a few years ago. That story was well covered in A-Net.

I don't expect to ever see the 787 at DCA. Personally, I'd be happy just to see some more 757's. When the wind's out of the south and landing aircraft go by my office window I normally see 2 or 3 a day. I haven't seen the ATA 757-300 that DLX referred to, but I'll keep an eye out for it.
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aaflt1871
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
ATA every now and then sends a 753 into National.

A beautiful site to see on final

Quoting Contrails (Reply 4):
When the new terminal opened a few years ago the airport was supposed to be rated for a 767,

I think it is for up to a 763, no more than 2 at a time
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gocaps16
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 5):
I think it is for up to a 763, no more than 2 at a time

Just prior til the 1250 mile radius rule was broken, there were talks about a flight to LAX or DEN on a 767-300, likely United or AA, but never has been. As for now, we'll be seeing the 757 for awhile here.
 
masseybrown
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:13 pm

DC-10's and L1011's were tested at DCA in the late 1970's. They operated well. Eastern Air Lines was especially eager; but the FAA decided that was too much plane for their little airport. There was also pressure not to undercut IAD, which, 15 years after opening, was finally reaching a respectable size.

I doubt if we'll see anything bigger at DCA any time soon. If the next generation of narrowbodies is quieter we might see another hour or two of operations at night.
 
D L X
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):
DC-10's and L1011's were tested at DCA in the late 1970's. They operated well. Eastern Air Lines was especially eager; but the FAA decided that was too much plane for their little airport. There was also pressure not to undercut IAD, which, 15 years after opening, was finally reaching a respectable size.

I don't think we need to worry about protecting IAD anymore. It's interesting that they currently have a small exhibit at IAD talking about the early ghost town days, but it's a very busy place now. So, if that's the reason, I'd say let the larger jets in.
 
sq452
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
To my knowledge, widebody aircraft have never been flown into DCA

Except for when I flew my 772ER into DCA on flight simulator  Smile I got the bird in, and got her out (just barely) but weight wise was empty practically...

Ive never seen anything larger than a 757-200 go into DCA and I used to live practically at the end of the runway in Crystal City!
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masseybrown
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
I don't think we need to worry about protecting IAD anymore. It's interesting that they currently have a small exhibit at IAD talking about the early ghost town days,

You're right. Terrorism possibilities, noise, and ramp space would probably be the issues today.
 
D L X
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
You're right. Terrorism possibilities, noise, and ramp space would probably be the issues today.

Re: terrorism, the plane that hit the pentagon had been seen many times at DCA. I think that's going to be a problem with planes large and small.

Re: noise, I'm certain that the DL and AA MD-80s flying into DCA will be much louder than any new plane coming in. It's amazing just how much louder the mad dogs are compared to the larger 757s.

Re: ramp space, I have no idea. You may be spot on.
 
simairlinenet
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:31 am

DCA has six widebody-capable gates, which can handle up to a 767/A300 sized aircraft. They are located at the corners of the ends of each of the three piers in the new terminal.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
The 783 is supposed to replace, in some part, the 753, not the 752 which currently is seen at National.

the 783 replace the 753? I thought the 787 was to replace the 767 series airplanes. Hence, the 783 would replace the 762's. The 783 is a widebody aircraft. The 753 is a narrowbody aircraft. Comparing apples with oranges here.
 
broke
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:27 am

In 1977, Eastern tried to get the A-300 approved for operations in and out of DCA. While the Mount Vernon Approach from the South was fine, the River Approach from the North was not. With the aircraft following the river and only aligning with the Runway 18 about 1/2 mile from the threshold, it was felt that it was too tricky an approach for a wide bodied airliner.
 
D L X
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
The 783 is a widebody aircraft. The 753 is a narrowbody aircraft.

I think it's capacity and perhaps range that is important here. There are some rumors out there that the 737 replacement will be twin-aisle.
 
beech19
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
The sad answer is that you are probably raising a moot question.....its unlikely that any US carrier will order the 787-3 for domestic services;

I hope you like dissapointment...  Wink 2007 will be enjoyable for you...

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
noise, I'm certain that the DL and AA MD-80s flying into DCA will be much louder than any new plane coming in. It's amazing just how much louder the mad dogs are compared to the larger 757s.

MD's are louder than 777's and have a much larger sound footprint also on takeoff.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
I think it's capacity and perhaps range that is important here. There are some rumors out there that the 737 replacement will be twin-aisle.

One twin and one single. Ala 2-3/3-3 and 2-2-2(larger fues). Just a hunch...  Wink
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CBERFlyer
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Re: noise, I'm certain that the DL and AA MD-80s flying into DCA will be much louder than any new plane coming in. It's amazing just how much louder the mad dogs are compared to the larger 757s.

I particularly love it when one of NW's old DC9's roars out of DCA... they've got to be the loudest things still flying there. Don't see 727's any more... Sad
 
beech19
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Cberflyer (Reply 17):
Don't see 727's any more...

Fedex!  Smile Don't know if they fly to DCA though...
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Danairbus
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 18):
Fedex! Smile Don't know if they fly to DCA though...

Fedex does not fly into DCA. No cargo airlines fly into DCA.
 
Electech6299
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:12 pm

Quoting Cberflyer (Reply 17):
Don't see 727's any more...

Yes, so sad  Sad
IIRC, my first flight from DCA was a TWA 727. I used to love it, but now I don't miss the noise! Those DCs and mad dogs rattle windows like crazy- people in Alexandria would pay to have more 757s if they cold get rid of the Douglas jets!

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 18):
Fedex! Don't know if they fly to DCA though...

Nope- IAD is the fx hub here, and most other cargo as well.
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D L X
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 20):
people in Alexandria would pay to have more 757s if they cold get rid of the Douglas jets!

I don't mind the mad dogs one bit when I'm at home. Reminds me that there's an airport nearby.
 
AirplaneFan
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Can the longest runway, 1/19 which is about 2,100 meters, handle a 787 landing? Now if it is not possible, I don't think 787's will be seen at DCA, unless one the runways gets stretched to about 3,100 meters and a US carrier buys the 787-300.
I GOT YOUR SIX
 
Electech6299
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RE: Will We See The 787(-3) At DCA?

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:35 pm

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 22):
Can the longest runway, 1/19 which is about 2,100 meters, handle a 787 landing? Now if it is not possible,

Possible, or authorized? I'm sure it's possible, even if not for 121 service. Oh yeah, the 787 isn't in service yet anyway, so authorized wouldn't apply...

Maybe we could convince Boeing to make a promotional trip with the prototype! Nothing like sitting on the Potomac across from Capitol Hill to make an impression!

Or didn't I read something about an A-net co-op plane? I thing the '87's a great investment, and as a private owner we could fly in as GA! (with a FAM on board..)  Wink
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