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zippyjet
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179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:48 am

This is a first for me, 179 mph. headwinds. Our flight 679 (FL) HPN to MCO took 4 hours due to these headwinds. The captain said this is the strongest headwinds he's encountered. Rarley are they stronger. And, Winter and Daytime seems to be the time for them.
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SpeckSpot
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:11 pm

What was the expected flying time and what was the altitude?
Interesting details, ...
 
stirling
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:39 pm

That is freaking incredible....I don't think I have ever heard of, or encountered a headwind that fast.
I just checked the weather, assuming this was today (26/12/06), it was very visible on the weather maps, a center of high pressure over Texas, and a low over the Maritimes, with the millibar lines very-very close together indicating some zippy upper level winds!!

I hope this is not breaking a copyright, but this is a weather channel map to explain:

*Note: This image might automatically update so it might not be valid after today...
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pilot21
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:42 pm

I once had just over 200mph tailwinds on an EI A330 flight from BOS to SNN, one of the biggest the pilot had ever encountered as well. We reached SNN in something like 4hrs 20mins (I can't remember the exact number) but I know it was only about 20mins-30mins outside of the all time record!

And this Feb we had +100mph headwinds from EWR to LAS, our flight time on that trip was 6.5hrs!

[Edited 2006-12-27 05:44:00]
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
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zippyjet
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 1):
What was the expected flying time and what was the altitude?
Interesting details, ...

Flying time is usually posted/clocked in in the 2:10 to 2:25 range. Altitude, I'm not sure. Usually, our 717 flights cruise in the mid to upper 30s.

As a matter of fact, I flew on a Tower ancient 747 from MIA to JFK and did it in 2 hours! Of course the Northeastward tailwinds.
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flyboy7974
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:38 pm

were on you flight 679 then? checking their page, gate to gate time shows less than 4 hours, so airtime on flightaware shows 3:02. compared to past southbound flights, this flight did take about 20-50 minutes longer than past AirTran 679, but looking on the northbound flights, it doesn't look like they were able to make up much time on the return flights, return flight only ran about 20 minutes less than before.

when we see winds like this effecting flights east to west and vice versa, flights flying westbound that take an average hour longer give or take, when the a/c returns back eastbound the airline sometimes makes up quite a bit of time. I was watching this last year when everybody kept talking about the JetBlue BUR flights and how winds effect BUR takeoff. Everybody always thought that only the eastbound flights on JetBlue out of BUR would ever be effected, especially when the Santa Ana winds were prevelant, but as found quite often, with the wrong jetstream, a lot of their westbound flights out of JFK, and not just limited to BUR, but to most west coast cities, were weight restricted and thus made fuel diversions. Most often the DEN/SLC flights were exempt, but all other cities faced this crisis when the jetstream dropped and headwinds were extreme. I remember some of the BUR flights were flying far north skimming the Canadian border until Montana or so and then dropping down over Idaho and Utah to try to avoid hitting the winds
 
flyboy7974
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:48 pm

also, while on the subject of AirTran, looking to the evening of the 25th, can anybody look up 770 that operates the night flight from LAS. On flightaware, look far the flight was into operation and then diverts to DEN, but looking at the flightpath, it was almost directly over ABQ and then makes a 90 degree left turn and heads up to DEN. I would think if a medical diversion it'd drop down into ABQ, but it heads up north to DEN. Was this to help with the stranded pax from the past week's weather, because I'd think they'd pick a more direct route to DEN from the start. Just something interesting
 
zvezda
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:57 pm

I believe you'll find winds of up to 300mph in the western pacific, from time to time.
 
VEEREF
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:18 pm

While very common when travelling east to west, direct headwinds of that speed from north to south are rare along the east coast.
Most I've seen across the North Atlantic was 213kt on the nose. And that was up above 60N to stay out of the main jetstream core.
Our FRA-CHS trip was almost 11 hours as a result.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
NASBWI
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:22 pm

Yesterday's B6 flight from BOS-MCO was going to be 3hrs and 22mins due to strong headwinds. The flight is ordinarily 2hrs 45mins or so.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
Chugach
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:27 pm

My SEA-ANC flight today (AS 97) is blocked for 4:09 enroute. Normally flight time is about 3.5 hours northbound. Distance is 1,448 statute miles.
GO ROCKETS
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
I believe you'll find winds of up to 300mph in the western pacific, from time to time.

Especially when the jetstream is blowing off the Russian landmass and onto the Pacific. I've flown in jetstream core winds of over 250kts.
 
stirling
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:47 pm

Check out this link for some neat wind speed maps (animated)
Anything in the yellow is over 150mph....Lot of yellows and orange moving up the Eastern Seaboard for the next few days.

Weather Map
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millivanilli
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:24 am

In September 1994 I flew from JFK to Frankfurt and we had one hell of a tail wind. I don't remember the exact speed but we arrived 2.5 hours early.
 
777fan
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
I believe you'll find winds of up to 300mph in the western pacific, from time to time.

I've flown many transpac flights and have never seen anything above 200mph or so. Are you sure you weren't referring to kph?!

777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
OPNLguy
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:30 am

Some of you might be interested in seeing the benefit of such winds, namely high groundspeeds.

http://www.groundspeedrecords.com/

GS - the aircraft's true air speed = the amount of tailwind component.

Like this 737-200, 591 kts. - 450 kts. = 141 kts.

http://www.groundspeedrecords.com/records/record%20B732%20591kts.htm
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:39 am

To see the bearings of the winds go to:
http://aviationweather.gov/data/iffdp/2311.pdf
You can back track to check various altitudes.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
Check out this link for some neat wind speed maps (animated)
Anything in the yellow is over 150mph....Lot of yellows and orange moving up the Eastern Seaboard for the next few days.

We are having ground winds of 100 KPH at the moment here in Hamilton, Ont, the building is shaking and the winds are out of the West, so I can imagine what they are higher up
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 17):
We are having ground winds of 100 KPH at the moment here in Hamilton, Ont

I don't want to burst your bubble, but I think that 100 kph is a slight exaggeration. In YKF, winds are hardly stronger than 25 kph.

YHM METAR is showing METAR CYHM 271600Z 24012KT 7SM -SHSN BKN030 OVC047 00/M04 A2991 RMK SC6SC2 SLP139

YKF METAR is showing CYKF 271640Z AUTO 26008KT 4SM OVC013 OVC063 M01/M03 A2988

-YVRtoYYZ
 
PILOTALLEN
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:20 am

yeah we were flying from KBED-KBZN yesterday and we hi someting like 180 on the nose near buffalo NY......the most i've seen was 212 lucikly it was a cross wind and it was down near dallas tx...earlier this year...thats insane since usually the jetstream is further north during the summer....crazy stuff
Thats not flying, thats falling with style -Woody
 
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turk223
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:58 am

I was on BA 239 last night LHR-BOS and the pilot made a comment about the strong headwinds as well... "nothing we could do about them" (regarding the chop we experienced for a while).

I remember seeing on the map that the headwinds exceeded 120 MPH for a long time - pretty much for the last 3 hours.

Interesting landing too! Crosswinds always make for a thrill...
 
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flylku
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:05 am

I had 52 knots on the nose at 10000 over Lake Michigan. I only mention it because in a Piper Archer you want to spend as little time over the lake as possible and it cause the flight to last nearly two hours instead of one.

Had 190 on the nose to LAX once and 200 on the way to OKC this spring. Smooth as glass on both flights.
...are we there yet?
 
beech19
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:21 am

My father who used to fly with FISTA(NKC-135E) for the USAF said they once hit 800mph ground speed flying eastbound from Edwards AFB to Hanscom AFB.
Thats a good 250mph tailwind on a -135E.
KPAE via KBVY
 
turbulence
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:34 am

Back in the time OA was serving triangular routes ATH-MAD-BCN-ATH or ATH-BCN-MAD-ATH I used to fly my way between BCN and ATH via MAD just for the sake of it... Back home to BCN, the ATH-MAD sector used to be 3 hours on the air, from Vr to thrust reversers. One day it took us 4h10m to reach to MAD. Not taking into consideration climb and descent procedures, the B734 cruising speed of 813 kms/h gives a distance of 2439 kms. Assuming this distance flown in 4h10min instead, (it makes 4.16 hours taken into decimal) gives a ground speed of 586,3 kms/h. Then, 813-586,3=226,7 kms/h headwind meaning roughly 141.62 mph, quite a bit, considering it was above the Mediterranean.

Not far ago, last september, a friend of mine was flying BCN-EWR on CO. After crew had loaded the flight plan they asked for an extra refuelling, lost their slot and departed almost one hour and a half late. The reason? The headwinds they were about to find overflying the atlantic coast of the Iberian peninsula were... 180kt. And, no, it is not a mistake: I DID NOT WRITE 180MPH; I wrote 180kt. It makes some 207MPH

Enjoy turbulence!!!
 
MCOflyer
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:16 am

I did MCO-ROC-MCO in 99 on US metro jet and did ROC-MCO in 1.5hrs. According to Great Circle Mapper its 1033 miles avearaging 688.6 mph.


From To Distance
ROC (43°07'08"N 77°40'21"W) MCO (28°25'46"N 81°18'32"W) 1033 mi
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
soups
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:43 am

Last year Gatwick-Cuba 9hour return was cuba-manchester 5h55min
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
Blackbird
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:45 am

I remember this CV-880 record that covered Chicago to (then) Idlewild (now JFK) in 1 hr 11 minutes on Jan 24th, 1961. Supposedly they were averaging 680 mph! Allegedly in a book I read, A TWA CV-880 reached 849 mph over Columbus, Ohio (738.26 kts) on the same day, so I assume that was the same flight.

Obviously this was the result of a heavy tailwind. Not to mention the fact that during the early days of commercial jet flight, that 250 knot restriction didn't exist yet. And CV-880 pilots seemed to exploit this fact to the maximum. Once they got the flaps up, they'd go right to the redline, and then hold that until they reached max mach number and simply race across the country at Mach 0.91. On the way down they usually held either max mach number (at high alt), or max airspeed (at low alt) virtually all the way until just before reaching the outer marker. Since the plane could safely extend it's main-gears for use as speed-brakes even at 400 knots, and had powerful spoilers if necessary, they could rapidly slow down to normal approach speeds, and from that point, make a fairly normal landing.

Andrea K
 
N808NW
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 am

I had this tailwind going MSP-LGW last week,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/n808nw/speed.jpg
if it was that strong the whole way the flight would of been around 6hrs!




-Jason  swirl 
All flights have great IFE...get yourself a window seat, thats something no PTV can beat! flew 808 Pacific an Atlanic
 
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zippyjet
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 6):
also, while on the subject of AirTran, looking to the evening of the 25th, can anybody look up 770 that operates the night flight from LAS.

I looked in our flight data and that flight diverted/delayed due to an unruly passenger. Christmas and New Years seem to bring out some of the ones who
think the company and for that matter the world owe them everything in their so called lives. Usually the lion's share of unruly passengers are on New York area and Boston flights.

And to the A-Netter who got to the Continent 2.5 hours earlier it can and will happen. We've had ATL-BWI flights that had an in the air flying time of 50 minutes! And I can remember a flight I was on coming home where we got right out of ATL! No hurry up and wait! I and my fellow passengers were positively flabbergasted at the quickenss of our ascent from Hotlanta!  bigthumbsup 
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beech19
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 28):
Usually the lion's share of unruly passengers are on New York area and Boston flights.

Oh... ouch.  Wink

Its only cause we care. LOL
KPAE via KBVY
 
onetogo
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting PILOTALLEN (Reply 19):
yeah we were flying from KBED-KBZN yesterday and we hi someting like 180 on the nose near buffalo NY

Hope that wasnt in an Alpha Fox PC12. You'd hardly be moving!
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:03 pm

In 1973, I was on an American 707 from LAX to DFW when the flight deck announced a groundspeed of 740 mph. That is the closest that I have ever been to watching the earth roll by at Chuck Yeager speed. It was an amazing view and we arrived almost an hour early.

If you don't know the difference between groundspeed and airspeed, don't reply. No, the 707 was not transonic.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:39 pm

Back in like 1954; hard to believe there was such a year and two years before
I plopped out into this world, one of the first Boeing 707's (as Dash 8 prototype) hauled ass from what was then known as Friendship International Airport now BWI and made it across the USA to Renton, Wa. or somewhere out that a way in less than 4 hours. Like 3 hours and 40 minutes. I probably got a few of these facts wrong but, I know it was a Boeing 707 prototype and Baltimore was one of it's locations.
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pilotaydin
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:47 pm

when winter comes, the polar winds lower down towards turkey, on one flight we had 145 knot tailwind last week..it was awesome! coming back sucked LOLOL
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
MAH4546
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:50 pm

I remember once on a jetBlue flight from Lauderdale to New York City. The headwinds were very, very favourable, and we landed in New York City in less than two hours.
a.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:21 pm

SQ from SFO-HKG had to divert to TPE due to headwinds, i know they were pushing 170+ kts over the bering strait and pretty much between 150-170kts for most of the journey.
 
stirling
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 35):
SQ from SFO-HKG had to divert to TPE due to headwinds, i know they were pushing 170+ kts over the bering strait and pretty much between 150-170kts for most of the journey.

So their ground speed was something like 300kts?
That's propliner territory.

Just for fun, I put the speed into the Great Circle Mapper, and it spits out a bit over 20 hours!!! No wonder for the diversion! As it is, at 300kts or so, TPE is an 18 hour hike from SFO.
But that is assuming such winds for the duration.
I take it the winds kicked in over Alaska?
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cedarjet
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RE: 179 Mile Headwinds!

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 4):
I flew on a Tower ancient 747 from MIA to JFK and did it in 2 hours!

It's always the old planes that set the records! My best trans-Atlantic time is 4h55 from BOS to LGW on the oldest NW 747-100, three windows on the upper deck, old livery, the works. This baby was oooold. But she sure made light work of the Atlantic crossing. Broom broom!!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz

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