eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:52 am

I took a Northwest flight from Amsterdamn to Detroit then a domestic NW flight form Detroit to Las Vegas

The flight from Amsterdamn to detroit was great - good food and an excellent Video on demand IFE. I really do like their new Airbuses

But the flight from Detroit to Vegas was awful. The plane was grotty and overcrowded. Despite the flight being 4.5 hours long the cabin crew only served soft drinks once and then left us to fend for our selves. It as if they went on strike mid flight. There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight. When I went to the lavotory I could see then lounging about as if they were off duty!

At least Ryanair would give us a portable DVD player or something for a modest fee - but 4.5 hours and just one drink is quite appalling.
 
bobnwa
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The plane was grotty and overcrowded

Please explain the word grotty for those of us from the colonies.
 
sv2008
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:05 pm

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Please explain the word grotty

it means very dirty.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1866
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
But the flight from Detroit to Vegas was awful. The plane was grotty and overcrowded. Despite the flight being 4.5 hours long the cabin crew only served soft drinks once and then left us to fend for our selves. It as if they went on strike mid flight. There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight. When I went to the lavotory I could see then lounging about as if they were off duty!

At least Ryanair would give us a portable DVD player or something for a modest fee - but 4.5 hours and just one drink is quite appalling.

I suggest you get over it. Most domestic travel these days is akin to a flying bus ticket. LAS routes are notorious for being full, when did you fly? Most US domestic aircraft don't have IFE anyway, especially Douglas aircraft, what aircraft did you fly?
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 3):
Most US domestic aircraft don't have IFE anyway, especially Douglas aircraft, what aircraft did you fly?

DTW-LAS on NW is all B752/A322, so it wasn't a Douglas bird. That said, I second your sentiments. The only appeal left in domestic flying in the United States is the fact that your Greyhound bus happens to have wings and cruise at FL350.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:48 am

NW international to Europe is also very different from their flights to Asia with their super senior unionized and lazy FAs.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 5):
NW international to Europe is also very different from their flights to Asia with their super senior unionized and lazy FAs.

NW FA's are unionized
 
Bicoastal
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 3):
Most US domestic aircraft don't have IFE anyway,

Next time fly United. They have free movies and short subjects on all aircraft except 737s which only have audio. And all aircraft have audio....including Channel 9 ATC to flight deck communication. United also has an excellent Buy on Board selection for only $5. On transcons, United has two beverage services.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
burnsie28
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
They have free movies and short subjects on all aircraft except 737s which only have audio

Mostly short subject programming on a flight that is comperable from DTW-LAS, of which is usually Frazier re-runs.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
United also has an excellent Buy on Board selection for only $5

NW has about the same as UA for BOB.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
On transcons, United has two beverage services.

They didn't on my flight, only one service, of comparable length of DTW-LAS.
 
Falcon84
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The plane was grotty and overcrowded.

What? Were there people standing, and holding on to rails bolted to the ceiling?

Other than that, how can an aircraft be "overcrowded". If it's full, well, too bad for an airline wanting to make some money.  rotfl 
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Bicoastal
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 8):
which is usually Frazier re-runs

Wrong. Up to date recent sitcoms and news from NBC and Entertainment Tonight.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 8):
only one service, of comparable length of DTW-LAS.

All my flights of that length have had UA flight attendants up and down the aisles with bottled water, coffee and offering other beverages. Try flying UA more than bad mouthing them (or being envious of them).
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:28 am

While NW's service has not been industry leading for a LONG LONG time, it is interesting to note that their domestic system in the last 2 quarters has been the most profitable among US carriers. Since they have not had the ability to restructure their network as DL is doing or even to the smaller extent UA did, NW had no choice but to slash costs in order to get through bankruptcy. It's also probably why they realize they are ripe for being bought because they have invested so little in their company over the past 15 years that they are very close to losing their market share to competitors with better service.

NW's alliance w/ KLM is the only reason their transatlantic network makes money. Their Pacific network doesn't make money and hasn't for several years. The 787s will help to regain some share but they are too few planes too late in the game.

Lots of people fantasized about a NW/DL merger from the day both carriers filed for BK 15 months ago. Since CO and UA seem interested in each other, NW's best bet for a friendly merger is probably with DL, something that could happen in a couple years. Since AA would dismantle a big portion of NW's domestic system, NW management and creditors would be hard pressed to accept an AA offer over DL.

But in the meantime, NW will continue to be a low value player that is trying to preserve what it can of its business until it can sell itself.
 
WestJetForLife
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:34 am

I agree with you, even though I've never flown international, and I live in Canada.

Canadian domestic can go two ways: good or bad. I haven't flown AC for a good 10-12 years, but I have flown WS on more than 3 occaisons. When it comes to domestic, I usually choose WS over AC.

WS may not be as professional-looking as AC, but spending 2 hours on a 737 with leather seats, seat-back TVs and funny and attentive FAs is a heck of a lot better than 2 hours in AC economy with cloth seats and sometimes-crabby (but not all the time) FAs, but that's just my personal opinion.
I need a drink.
 
havaloc
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:43 am

Here's a good reason to fly Northwest to LAS, especially if you like smoother flights.

http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/bl...or-less-turbulence-on-your-flight/
DC-9
 
JAFA
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Their Pacific network doesn't make money and hasn't for several years. The 787s will help to regain some share but they are too few planes too late in the game.

Can you back up this statement with evidence or are you just talking out your a$$?
 
Bicoastal
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting Havaloc (Reply 13):
Here's a good reason to fly Northwest to LAS, especially if you like smoother flights.

http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/bl...ight/

OMG...a website for whimpy flyers! Ok, fine. The white knuckle flyers can take NW. The rest of us mentally healthy people, who aren't neurotic and over-anxious, who understand weather patterns, turbulence and the mechanics of flight, and who want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible will fly other airlines.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 5):
NW international to Europe is also very different from their flights to Asia with their super senior unionized and lazy FAs.

NW FA's are unionized

= I know. That is what I am saying ... the worst of NW are the matrons who do the Asia runs.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Squid
Posts: 192
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:14 am

NWA management wanted to get rid of those bitter old ladies that do those Asia flights and instead staff them with young, beautiful, multi-lingual, gracious women from Asia to work those flights in order to offer a better product and the flight attendant union prevented it from happening. And unions are good for what?
 
centrair
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Squid (Reply 17):
the flight attendant union prevented it from happening

Yeah that and US immigration laws. Those damn work rules concerning passports, visas, green cards, and equal pay for equal jobs. Plus I believe the Asia based F/A (non-Japanese) are restricted to work on Japan-US flights (the majority of NW routes).

Otherwise NW's Asia and Domestic routes are the way they are as they don't invest in thier product. Five years ago flying Transpatlantic on NW was just as bad. But the A330s were a major upgrade. NW Transpac will see an upgrade of product in 2008 with the 787-8s. The Domestic product will probably see nothing unless it becomes clear that actually serving the public is important for profit.

Is UA's Transpac that much better? If you are on a 777 yes, on a 747 I would say it ain't that much better.

NW needs to compete not with other US carriers but with International carriers so they need to raise their standards. I have a choice of NH or NW for flying home. I will only fly NW as they fly non-stop to MSP but if if ORD was easier with a child, I would fly on NH via ORD.

[Edited 2006-12-29 03:48:55]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Squid (Reply 17):
And unions are good for what?

Sticking airlines with less than stellar workers and screwing up the finance balance sheet!

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
But the flight from Detroit to Vegas was awful. The plane was grotty and overcrowded. Despite the flight being 4.5 hours long the cabin crew only served soft drinks once and then left us to fend for our selves. It as if they went on strike mid flight. There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight. When I went to the lavatory I could see then lounging about as if they were off duty!

Now you know what we here in the states think of "Northworst" with their junkie ancient fleet of DC-9s that just keep going like the "Energizer Bunny" As for domestic service, you get much better on a WN "cattle carrier!"

Quoting WestJetForLife (Reply 12):
WS may not be as professional-looking as AC, but spending 2 hours on a 737 with leather seats, seat-back TVs and funny and attentive FAs is a heck of a lot better than 2 hours in AC economy with cloth seats and sometimes-crabby (but not all the time) FAs, but that's just my personal opinion.

   The only difference between WS and WN is the seating and boarding procedure as well as the seat-back TVs. WS is like WN with B6 service, and being a good domestic and trans-border competitor they help the North American market a great deal. I really wish WS would start YYC-SLC and give DL a run for their money in fare pricing.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 18):
Those damn work rules concerning passports, visas, green cards, and equal pay for equal jobs.

Immigration rules to build a fence around Mexico, and work rules signed stamped and approved by the AFL-CIO and the U.S.A. front for socialist agitation!

[Edited 2006-12-29 04:25:21]
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting Jafa (Reply 14):
Can you back up this statement with evidence

How about DOT data - which all US airlines have to report?

Go find a subscription to Aviation Daily and look up the quarerly airline financial performance by region.

I know it runs couter to what alot o people think but NW does not make money flying to Asia.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
All my flights of that length have had UA flight attendants up and down the aisles with bottled water, coffee and offering other beverages. Try flying UA more than bad mouthing them (or being envious of them).

And I have had two beverage services before on NW from MSP-LAS just less then a year ago.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 10):
Wrong. Up to date recent sitcoms and news from NBC and Entertainment Tonight.

When I recently flew them it was an old Frazier show.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Their Pacific network doesn't make money and hasn't for several years.

Oh really, thats interesting how NW's Asia network is the most profitable part of their network, creating something like 30% of revenue.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 15):
OMG...a website for whimpy flyers! Ok, fine. The white knuckle flyers can take NW. The rest of us mentally healthy people, who aren't neurotic and over-anxious, who understand weather patterns, turbulence and the mechanics of flight, and who want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible will fly other airlines

Yes because back in the 1990's UA sure showed that, when they reported that NW was ahead of the UA aircraft and because of NW's weather (of which btw its a fact most airlines use NW's weather services worldwide) they went above and got around it while UA flew right into it, killing 1 or 2 people. Apparently you don't understand weather patterns, there is a reason why NW does it, bash them all you want but its fact NW has the #1 Airline Training in the world (rated by outside independent source) and also has one of the worlds top meterology departments.
 
twolz2rn
Posts: 385
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:30 pm

Yes the NW transatlantic A333's are VERY nice...the one thing that i would highly recommend is that the F/A's get some new uniforms! I recently flew CDG-DTW with NW and those F/A's uniforms are hideous! The uniforms look very grandma-esque...my new favorite is Delta, those are classy
 
worldtraveler
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 21):
Oh really, thats interesting how NW's Asia network is the most profitable part of their network, creating something like 30% of revenue.

I'm hoping you didn't put that answer on any of your final exams because if you did, you failed the class.

Generating revenue and making a profit are two entirely different things.

NW generates alot of revenue from the Pacific but they don't make money. which validates that NW's product is subpar in a region where premium service is required and that NW hasn't invested in its product enough to keep pace with other carriers like UA.

If NW's Pacific network was doing so well, don't you think it would have been NW that was fighting off hostile takeover attempts instead of DL?
 
nwa747-400
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:54 pm

My EWR-LAX transcon on CO....dinner flight..full 757.....

Drinks and nuts....
Drinks and FREE meal
Drinks again
Water from trays every hourish
Drinks again 1.5hr out

All served by a friendly and efficient crew of 3 FAs working in the back, AND one of the 2 FAs from the front even came back and helped pick up trash sometimes!

Saw the beverage cart a total of 4 times on 5 hour flight, plus the water trays....oh and a movie, followed by short video (free, plugged in my own headset).....

Great service!
 
jrlander
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:14 pm

My other half has been taking NW from SEA to AMS for business, and he has been less than thrilled with that service too! Actually, he sticks with it for their flat seats, connections, and Skyteam. His major gripes on all flights have been the food in WBC and the flight attendants. One actually tried to argue with him when he ordered a Diet Pepsi! She read the contents of the can in front of him, and told him it would kill him. And this wasn't in a friendly/funny way either!

And having taken NW from SEA to MSP and DTW, I can agree with the poor state of NW's domestic airplanes. I much prefer DL, CO or UA.
 
sk601
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:22 pm

My experience.....:
I flew NW several times between AMS-MSP/DTW. O.K. service. You get your food and you can watch a movie or 2 (DC10). The AVOD on the A330 is a big plus and appreciated.
My domestic NW flights were indeed something else. Last year's DTW-MSP. Dirty B757, Starbuck's coffee cups on the floor, crums all over, napkins in between the seats, empty pretzelbags in the seatpockets..., grumpy FA's etc etc. On my LAS/PHX/SEA/MCO flights from/to MEM/MSP/DTW 1 drink "service", but please FA's, don't dare to smile!!  Wow!

I must say it was no different on my CO flight from EWR-PHX. 1 drink service (of choice) and 1 cup of water....on a 4,5hr flight. Also really grumpy FA's. DL mainline ATL-MCO, same...DL Skywest from YYC-SLC...grumpy FA's. What's wrong? Every business in the US is very customer friendly, especially in comparison with The Netherlands, so why not up in the air? Is it because it's not customary to tip??  Confused
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 18):
The Domestic product will probably see nothing unless it becomes clear that actually serving the public is important for profit.

Maybe it's just my good luck, but I find NW no different than other domestics. I rack up a lot of miles for business. NW leaves on time and gets me there on time. I work on the plane, so I could care less about Frasier or video games. NW serves me quite well.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 19):
Now you know what we here in the states think of "Northworst" with their junkie ancient fleet of DC-9s that just keep going like the "Energizer Bunny" As for domestic service,

I love those planes! The interiors look newish. The front is very quiet, the rear---not so much. But, hey, have you been on an AA 757 lately? Or a CO 737-300? Everyone has their older planes.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 21):
And I have had two beverage services before on NW from MSP-LAS just less then a year ago.

Again, maybe I am just lucky, but the service has been comparable to any other airline I have flown. And, if I needed something between services, I just ring the bell and they come running---always helpful. I have never gone Cokeless.

Is there some phobia about asking for something en flight? The way some people complain about only one or two beverage services, you would think that they have been denied a Coke. Anyone not served a drink when they asked? Hasn't happened to me.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2106
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
What? Were there people standing, and holding on to rails bolted to the ceiling?

Other than that, how can an aircraft be "overcrowded". If it's full, well, too bad for an airline wanting to make some money.

 checkmark 
 
SRT75
Posts: 204
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Since they have not had the ability to restructure their network as DL is doing or even to the smaller extent UA did, NW had no choice but to slash costs in order to get through bankruptcy.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
The 787s will help to regain some share but they are too few planes too late in the game.

Great post WorldTraveler. Reading it, I had this eerie deja vu feeling, and three letters popped into my head -- T W A
 
NWBOS
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:01 pm

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 26):
My domestic NW flights were indeed something else. Last year's DTW-MSP. Dirty B757, Starbuck's coffee cups on the floor, crums all over, napkins in between the seats, empty pretzelbags in the seatpockets..., grumpy FA's etc etc.

Maybe that's because passengers have turned the cabin into a pigsty. I'm sorry, but one is saying that the cabin isn't clean during the course of the flight -- maybe it's because the passenger next to you is throwing all of his newspapers on the floor, sticking his Starbucks mug in the seat pocket, and putting his half-eaten bag of Ritz bitz in between the seats in much the same manner that a dog buries a bone. When class-less people fly, that's what you get! And you wonder why the flight attendants are grumpy!
 
sk601
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 30):
Maybe that's because passengers have turned the cabin into a pigsty

True. I'm aware that this is caused by passengers, not the FA's.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 30):
I'm sorry, but one is saying that the cabin isn't clean during the course of the flight

It was already a mess when boarding the plane. I can understand that if it is a short turnaround, but the plane was at the gate 1,5hr before departure, so they had at least 30 min to clean the plane (15 min deboarding, 30 min cleaning time, 15 min to do the security check, 30 min boarding).
 
COERJ145
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight.

I see no problem with this, just bring a book or a laptop and watch a DVD(which is what I do. On most of AA's domestic flights, there is no IFE, and on all WN flights there is no IFE.
 
KingAirMan
Posts: 233
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:57 am

I am flying northwest to hong kong in business class in june. Any word on their service ? I was looking foward to tring Cathay or Singapore, but NWA fit my schedule and price range better. .
 
bobnwa
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight.

It makes one cry when thinking about the millions of airline passengers who had to fly without IFE until a few years ago. How were they able to persevere though that kind of situation. My hat is off to them.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 19):
I really wish WS would start YYC-SLC and give DL a run for their money in fare pricing.

These days WS is often the more expensive choice.

Quoting WestJetForLife (Reply 12):

WS may not be as professional-looking as AC, but spending 2 hours on a 737 with leather seats, seat-back TVs and funny and attentive FAs is a heck of a lot better than 2 hours in AC economy with cloth seats and sometimes-crabby (but not all the time) FAs, but that's just my personal opinion.

True, but AC is working on this with Project XM which is coming along nicely  Smile


Kris
 
gilesdavies
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:18 am

Coming round and offering drinks only once on a 4.5hr flight is absolutely disgraceful!

Modern jet aircraft are renowned for their dry environment in the cabin and this can cause dehydration and other medical effects. Esspecially when experts recommend you drink lots of liquid before and during a flight (not alcohol!  Wink), the NW cabin crew seem to have complete disregard for even the most basic comforts of their passengers on this particular flight.

It does not portray a good image on the airline if passengers see the cabin crew lounging around and ignoring the people they are paid to look after on the flight. If crew want to take breaks they should be taking these a few at time to ensure there is always a few on duty as well and breaks should be taken in the galley behind the curtain, where they are not going to attract attention from the passengers.

You might think think I am generalising here... But why inparticularly on US carriers is the service so hit and miss? On some flights I have had fantastic service and on others the cabin crew have been down right rude and ignorant. On a number of flights it has not just been one cabin crew member but a whole number of them on the flight with an attitude.

I have seem crew talk to passengers with contempt and so rude. Even when the pasenger was been perfectly civil and asking a simple question or request. On one occasion on US Airways the cabin crew member spoke to the passenger with such disgust, I wouldn't even want my worst enemy to b spoken to in the tone this passenger was spoken to.

In Europe you do still experience the occassional rogue cabin crew member with a chip on the shoulder, but is far less frequent than on flights I have travelled on with US carriers.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 6):
NW FA's are unionized

I appreciate the unions have a lot of say in representing the cabin crew, but surely this should not be allowed to get in the way of how passengers are treated and looked after.

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
At least Ryanair would give us a portable DVD player or something for a modest fee - but 4.5 hours and just one drink is quite appalling.

This only ran as a trial and passengers were not prepared to pay the fee Ryanair wanted for hiring out the Entertainment systems and was abandoned about 18 months ago...
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
NW's alliance w/ KLM is the only reason their transatlantic network makes money.

And Star, Oneworld are the chief reasons UA and AA make money on their transatlantic flights. Footnote, NW/KL pioneered the first successful codeshare alliance, whish is why we're still at it 17 years after the fact.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
Pacific network doesn't make money and hasn't for several years.

We don't make to Asia, hrmmmmm, that's a new one. Starting to sound like MalpensaSFO/ KLjfk777, Lhr001, or whatever your id is this week.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
The 787s will help to regain some share but they are too few planes too late in the game.

Considering the fact that we, and Continental are the only US carriers who ordered the the 787, and that anyone else who orders them, will have to wait until 2012-2015 to get them, I think we're right on time. It's our competitiion that may have to wait or accept the sub-par consolation alternative(A350).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
But in the meantime, NW will continue to be a low value player that is trying to preserve what it can of its business until it can sell itself.

Interesting, you say we can't be a profitable enterprise. It seems we'll post a 250-270 million USD profit for the year. Not bad for an unprofitable company IN BANKRUPTCY.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/061221/1394180.html?.v=1

Quoting Squid (Reply 17):
NWA management wanted to get rid of those bitter old ladies that do those Asia flights and instead staff them with young, beautiful, multi-lingual, gracious women from Asia to work those flights in order to offer a better product and the flight attendant union prevented it from happening. And unions are good for what?

Your libido talking, gawking over women you could probably never score with anyway.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
How about DOT data - which all US airlines have to report?

If you were correct, which I don't think you are, the bottom line is that we are a profitable company, with the lowest cost's compared to our US competitors, and whether our Asia/Pacific network is profitable, we're still making money.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/061221/1394180.html?.v=1

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
Go find a subscription to Aviation Daily and look up the quarerly airline financial performance by region.

How about citing a source that an be verified here and now. Don't redirect us to something we have research on our own. Put something on here that clearly backs up your argument.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):
I know it runs couter to what alot o people think but NW does not make money flying to Asia

Okay, so we've been propping up an unprofitable network simply to look good. You don't have a clue of what makes money.


Quoting TwoLz2rn (Reply 22):
the one thing that i would highly recommend is that the F/A's get some new uniforms!

We will be getting new uniform in mid 2008 for a debut in the fall of that year to coincide with the introduction of the 787.

Quoting TwoLz2rn (Reply 22):
I recently flew CDG-DTW with NW and those F/A's uniforms are hideous! The uniforms look very grandma-esque...

Well, the were designed almost 20 years ago

Quoting TwoLz2rn (Reply 22):
my new favorite is Delta, those are classy

Totally agree. I saw them the other day, and they looked sharp.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 23):
which validates that NW's product is subpar in a region where premium service is required and that NW hasn't invested in its product enough to keep pace with other carriers like UA.

#1, when you're in bankruptcy, your money is controlled by the courts and depending who you have as a judge. So just deciding to "upgrade" things is not at your disposal. We have been in the middle of a cost cutting rampage over the last few years. #2 We did embark on an 80 mln upgrade to our WBC service in 2003-05. And with our full-fare, premium priced WBC tickets being several hundred dollars lower than most of our competitiors, we match up pretty good with them.

Quoting Nwa747-400 (Reply 24):
Drinks and nuts....
Drinks and FREE meal
Drinks again
Water from trays every hourish
Drinks again 1.5hr out

We are looking at going back to free, tray service in coach, and our prices are about to go up

Quoting Jrlander (Reply 25):
One actually tried to argue with him when he ordered a Diet Pepsi! She read the contents of the can in front of him, and told him it would kill him. And this wasn't in a friendly/funny way either!

We do have loons, especially out of the senior bases in SEA, SFO, LAX and HNL. Many of them should not be flying anymore, but without a maximum retirement age, there's little that can be done about it.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 29):
Great post WorldTraveler. Reading it, I had this eerie deja vu feeling, and three letters popped into my head -- T W A

$ letters come to my head --T O O L, if you believe this guys crap.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 30):
Maybe that's because passengers have turned the cabin into a pigsty.

 checkmark  If parents would clean up after their kids and others would hand us their trash when they're done, instead of sticking it in the seat pockets.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 30):
I'm sorry, but one is saying that the cabin isn't clean during the course of the flight -- maybe it's because the passenger next to you is throwing all of his newspapers on the floor, sticking his Starbucks mug in the seat pocket, and putting his half-eaten bag of Ritz bitz in between the seats in much the same manner that a dog buries a bone. When class-less people fly, that's what you get! And you wonder why the flight attendants are grumpy!

Exactly

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 36):
Coming round and offering drinks only once on a 4.5hr flight is absolutely disgraceful!

I agree. I commute from the west coast to DTW, and when I see a cabin crew that does one beverage service after take-off and does a measily waterwalk 1.5 hours before landing, and tries to pass that off as a beverage service, pisses me off. It is laziness. They use the paycuts as an excuse. If you're mad at the company, that's one thing, but don't take it out on the passengers. It is their money that goes to my paycheck

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 36):
the NW cabin crew seem to have complete disregard for even the most basic comforts of their passengers on this particular flight.

Not all of us.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 36):
I appreciate the unions have a lot of say in representing the cabin crew, but surely this should not be allowed to get in the way of how passengers are treated and looked after.

They don't, it is the individual flight attendants that do that. The union doesn't advocate shabby service, that is purely the fault of a lazy flight attendant, not the union. It is sad, however, that the union is forced to protect a bad apple, even when they know it.
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:11 am

The NWA bashing from DL folks doesn't make a lot of sense, since NWA is in a much better position to emerge with a strong positive cash flow versus DL.

Yes, NWA's internal flights aren't exactly world-class in terms of service quality or comfort. But have you compared the fares? Every time I go to price transcon coach flights with one connection between, say, BOS and SFO, NWA always has the lowest price versus any other legacy and often beats out the LCCs.

And in the USA, people grumble and complain about a lack of amenities (see SWA) but they keep coming back to the cheapest coach fares. Someone might not like NWA's flights to LAS, but they're also not going to pay $100 more round-trip to get a newer plan with state-of-the-art IFE and food.

It's a bit like people complaining that US carriers across the Atlantic suck because they don't provide free wine. Considering the delta (pardon the pun) between a BA fare and a US or DL or CO coach fare, what they don't seem to understand is that the "free" bottle of wine they're getting on BA costs them about $100 to $200 in higher fares.
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burnsie28
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 38):

It's a bit like people complaining that US carriers across the Atlantic suck because they don't provide free wine

Well I guess this is where NW has some service as alcohol is still free across the mighty Atlantic.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 39):
Well I guess this is where NW has some service as alcohol is still free across the mighty Atlantic.

We're not charging for booze beer and wine becuase AF/KLM aren't charging.
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flydreamliner
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
I took a Northwest flight from Amsterdamn to Detroit then a domestic NW flight form Detroit to Las Vegas

The flight from Amsterdamn to detroit was great - good food and an excellent Video on demand IFE. I really do like their new Airbuses

But the flight from Detroit to Vegas was awful. The plane was grotty and overcrowded. Despite the flight being 4.5 hours long the cabin crew only served soft drinks once and then left us to fend for our selves. It as if they went on strike mid flight. There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight. When I went to the lavotory I could see then lounging about as if they were off duty!

At least Ryanair would give us a portable DVD player or something for a modest fee - but 4.5 hours and just one drink is quite appalling.

Overcrowded? you mean they sold all the seats on the aircraft, they didn't leave the one next to you open as a gift? what is wrong with them?

Drinks once verse twice may just be a good cabin crew or not such a great one, I've had poor service on nearly every airline i've ever flown on a domestic flight, it's life.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 5):
NW international to Europe is also very different from their flights to Asia with their super senior unionized and lazy FAs.

Their FA's are unpleasant everywhere. They have some good crews and poor crews flying everywhere, you just have to get lucky. Their A332s flying into NRT are certainly more modernly appointed than their 744s though, which is a nice change.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 7):
Next time fly United. They have free movies and short subjects on all aircraft except 737s which only have audio. And all aircraft have audio....including Channel 9 ATC to flight deck communication. United also has an excellent Buy on Board selection for only $5. On transcons, United has two beverage services.

DL, CO, and UA, and in some cases, AA have much better IFE than NW. NW cut domestic IFE, which really sort of boggles me, personally. I just flew MSP-MIA on AA on the 738, and they had both a feature length film and short length feature. There were two beverage services, aside from the less than generous 31" pitch on the 738, it was a great flight. Likewise, most UA, CO, AA, and DL flights (not flying on the on the older MD-80/90 or 733/734/735s) have nicer IFE than NW. NW should bring programming back, since all of their 757 and A319/320s are outfitted for video.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
While NW's service has not been industry leading for a LONG LONG time, it is interesting to note that their domestic system in the last 2 quarters has been the most profitable among US carriers. Since they have not had the ability to restructure their network as DL is doing or even to the smaller extent UA did, NW had no choice but to slash costs in order to get through bankruptcy. It's also probably why they realize they are ripe for being bought because they have invested so little in their company over the past 15 years that they are very close to losing their market share to competitors with better service.

NW's alliance w/ KLM is the only reason their transatlantic network makes money. Their Pacific network doesn't make money and hasn't for several years. The 787s will help to regain some share but they are too few planes too late in the game.

Remember the 30 A330s they've just received as well as the 75 odd CRJ9 and EMB175s, as well as the 787s, they have what they need for a turnaround, but it's going to take some new thinking on their parts to really run with it, and the quality of their service has to improve. What NW has is not something that would greatly benefit any of their rivals if they were bought out.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 20):

I know it runs couter to what alot o people think but NW does not make money flying to Asia.

Well, on the whole, no. They need to make some real changes, they have valuable assets in asia that could turn into profitability. They haven't adapted quickly enough. Their intra-asian network seems to be working pretty well, their old hub-hub network of linking DTW and MSP to NRT, and relying entirely on the 744 for Asia doesn't work. I would bet they have some very profitable asian routes, and some which most certainly are not. Their asian network has lots of potential though.

Quoting SK601 (Reply 26):
I must say it was no different on my CO flight from EWR-PHX. 1 drink service (of choice) and 1 cup of water....on a 4,5hr flight. Also really grumpy FA's. DL mainline ATL-MCO, same...DL Skywest from YYC-SLC...grumpy FA's. What's wrong? Every business in the US is very customer friendly, especially in comparison with The Netherlands, so why not up in the air? Is it because it's not customary to tip??

I think service would be FAR better if it were customary to tip FAs, and think it would be great if that were in fact customary. For a few dollars for better service, it's a great deal all around.

One of the big problems is that it is unionized also. Service in the US is very good in most sectors, and so the airlines can be very frustrating.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 34):
Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
There was no IFE or ant other entertainment for such a long flight.

It makes one cry when thinking about the millions of airline passengers who had to fly without IFE until a few years ago. How were they able to persevere though that kind of situation. My hat is off to them.

Oh Bob, I want so badly to love my hometown airline, and you make it hard for me. You work for NWA, and I do defer to your knowledge of the airline, but this attitude you have here I think illustrates part of what is wrong with NWA. Sure, lots of people survived flying without IFE, hell, even when I have it, most of the time I prefer to read or work on my laptop, but it's capitalism, and it's something that makes the flight more pleasant, and if you are deciding between an airline that has nice IFE and one that does not on a given trip, it can be enough to change your mind. NW not having them makes the flight less pleasant, it's nice to have more entertainment options, and having them makes your airline more competitive. It's not about not surviving without it, it's about being competitive. I know you understand this.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 37):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 11):
NW's alliance w/ KLM is the only reason their transatlantic network makes money.

And Star, Oneworld are the chief reasons UA and AA make money on their transatlantic flights. Footnote, NW/KL pioneered the first successful codeshare alliance, whish is why we're still at it 17 years after the fact.

Is this not common sense? NW being able to key into the KL european network helps make them more profitable, just like KL being able to key into the NW north american network helps their profitability, and this holds true for all such alliances. Plus, this makes the whole market less competitive, which helps keep prices from diving too low.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 37):
Quoting Squid (Reply 17):
NWA management wanted to get rid of those bitter old ladies that do those Asia flights and instead staff them with young, beautiful, multi-lingual, gracious women from Asia to work those flights in order to offer a better product and the flight attendant union prevented it from happening. And unions are good for what?

Your libido talking, gawking over women you could probably never score with anyway.

While what you say may be true, he has a point as well. Bitter, complacent old FA's don't offer pleasant service, and unpleasant service doesn't sell in a competitive market. The attitude and service of the FAs, may of whom happen to be young, attractive, multi-lingual, pleasant asian women, on airlines such as JAL, Cathay, ANA, and Singapore is way way better than that of NW, so if NW could get that quality of FA service on their asian flights, it certainly wouldn't hurt them.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 37):

Quoting Nwa747-400 (Reply 24):
Drinks and nuts....
Drinks and FREE meal
Drinks again
Water from trays every hourish
Drinks again 1.5hr out

We are looking at going back to free, tray service in coach, and our prices are about to go up

Good for NW!

Quoting USAirPlatinum (Reply 38):
The NWA bashing from DL folks doesn't make a lot of sense, since NWA is in a much better position to emerge with a strong positive cash flow versus DL.

I'm not so sure on that one. DL's expansion on their profitable international routes and their successful restructure of their domestic ops has done some good things for them. All NW has done is basic cost cutting, many of their larger issues have not been addressed. NW is doing fine for the short term, but DL has done much better for addressing strategic issues of their business.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):

Very nice, balanced summary of the whole topic.

I've thought for a long time that Northwest was vulnerable at its fortress hubs if someone could get some serious money together and put together a well funded start up like jetBlue. One wonders what might have been with ProAir in Detroit in some different hands. Up until now NW has retaliated to such things with double FF miles, etc., but you have to figure there's enough discontent there to tap into somehow as their domestic product really is a step below the competition.

Heck, in many ways I would prefer to fly on Southwest as the equipment is newer, the seats nicer and the legroom greater. Not to mention in many cases, the service is friendlier. Take away the cattle car boarding and it's no contest.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
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burnsie28
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
NW should bring programming back, since all of their 757 and A319/320s are outfitted for video.

Wrong, only about 20 of the A320's have the systems for them. My last 757 flight from MSP-DEN did not have TV's anymore. Also, NW cut it years and years ago, it costs something like 10 million a year to run IFE domestically with viewing fees and equipment cost and added fuel costs.
 
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United_fan
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:34 pm

I flew NW mainline last year DTW-GSO-DTW-ROC. I was perfectly happy with NW. I was just happy listening to the DC9's JT8D's whine...I also really liked DTW.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
christao17
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 18):
Is UA's Transpac that much better? If you are on a 777 yes, on a 747 I would say it ain't that much better.

That's the truth - yesterday I insisted that the UA reservations agent put me on the later NRT-SFO flight which is a 777 than on the earlier one (a 747) just because of that.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 34):
It makes one cry when thinking about the millions of airline passengers who had to fly without IFE until a few years ago. How were they able to persevere though that kind of situation. My hat is off to them.

Hmmm... sarcasm as a response when you haven't a more constructive argument. As FlyDreamliner pointed out, IFE can give an airline a competitive edge. When I've flown NW I've been disappointed to find no IFE, not even audio. I don't expect Wisemen 3000 but when the rest of the service is so mediocre, at least some IFE would be a nice distraction.


The irony is how the LCC carriers set expectations low for customers and people are pleased with any extras they get. Legacy carriers, though, set expectations high and then over the years have just continued to lower the bar.
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jetjack74
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
Is this not common sense? NW being able to key into the KL european network helps make them more profitable, just like KL being able to key into the NW north american network helps their profitability, and this holds true for all such alliances. Plus, this makes the whole market less competitive, which helps keep prices from diving too low.

Tell that to him. He's the one that seems t blinded by that. Instead of competing with our foriegn competitor, the alliance method had allowed us access we normally wouldn't have access to. The NW/KL is the only one of the original alliances that has remained solid in it's 17 years in it's existance.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
NW cut domestic IFE, which really sort of boggles me, personally.

It was old, and at a time, (Sept01) the contracts were endng so NW deactivated it. We didn't make very much money from it and customers complained about the content, so we stopped maintaining it and got rid of it.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
Bitter, complacent old FA's don't offer pleasant service, and unpleasant service doesn't sell in a competitive market.

Like I said, they're not all that way. We do have a large portion of senior FA's who are nasty, but i've experianced the same on AA to Europe, UA to Oz and Asia, Continental to Europe and the Caribbean. So it's everywhere, not just NWA.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
The attitude and service of the FAs, may of whom happen to be young, attractive, multi-lingual, pleasant asian women, on airlines such as JAL, Cathay, ANA, and Singapore is way way better than that of NW, so if NW could get that quality of FA service on their asian flights, it certainly wouldn't hurt them.

Well, you might be getting better service, but they also live in the fear of god over losing their jobs, so the service probably not the work of benevolence, but more out of fear. Besides, in the next year, NWA will intstituting language programme to where we'll staff each flight with 2-3 multi lingual FA's to the city of destination beginning with the US-Japan routes.
1-2008, each 747 will have 2 language qualified FA's, and A330/DC10/B787 will be staffed with 1 language qualified Flight Attendants
1-2009, each 747 will have 3 language qualified FA's, and A330/DC10/B787 will be staffed with 2 language qualified Flight Attendants

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
NW should bring programming back, since all of their 757 and A319/320s are outfitted for video

No, the 5500 series(the 1980's vintage 757's) 757's entire system and control modules were removed in April, and the A320's IFE sytem was deativated and removed in 1997-98. The A319's never had them.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
All NW has done is basic cost cutting, many of their larger issues have not been addressed.

And those issue are? The cost base of the airline is what makes the difference between profit and deficit. Our route system is probably the most solvent of the big six. It's not a complicated system, flight run East-West, North-South with the hubs smack dab in the middle of the country. What we don't have is overly congested hubs, with poor operating enviroments, (Hello, ORD, NYC, DFW, SFO and a host of others), or old terminals, poorly situated, over crowded terminals. Our labour costs(unfortunatly for me) are the lowest of the 6 major carriers. We're making money, IN BANKRUPTCY which is something that most carriers are able to do, (US, and UA) as bankruptcy court costs usually swallow up any chance of making a profit while under bankruptcy reorganisation.
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flydreamliner
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 43):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
NW should bring programming back, since all of their 757 and A319/320s are outfitted for video.

Wrong, only about 20 of the A320's have the systems for them. My last 757 flight from MSP-DEN did not have TV's anymore. Also, NW cut it years and years ago, it costs something like 10 million a year to run IFE domestically with viewing fees and equipment cost and added fuel costs.

Perhaps I should have said 'were' outfitted for video. at one point or another i believe they were all hooked up for it, i was unaware of the fact that so many had the systems removed. I understand it costs money, but everyone else seems to fit it into the budget. Maybe they could cut the world traveler magazine instead.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 46):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
NW cut domestic IFE, which really sort of boggles me, personally.

It was old, and at a time, (Sept01) the contracts were endng so NW deactivated it. We didn't make very much money from it and customers complained about the content, so we stopped maintaining it and got rid of it.

NW will soon be all but alone in their lack of IFE, most of CO's 737s are soon to be NG's with IFE, their 757s are also equipt, UA's A320s and 757s have IFE, DL is adding PTVs, sorrily NW seems to have moved the wrong direction on this one.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 46):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
NW should bring programming back, since all of their 757 and A319/320s are outfitted for video

No, the 5500 series(the 1980's vintage 757's) 757's entire system and control modules were removed in April, and the A320's IFE sytem was deativated and removed in 1997-98. The A319's never had them.

I remember having seen them all over the 757/A320 fleets at one point, and had noticed I hadn't seen them used in some time, however I was unaware they were gone. I suppose i merely assumed a319 had them since a320 had them, though come to think of it, i'm not sure i've taken a NW A319 on a flight far enough to expect IFE... i usually try to book on a 757, though my last 757 flight still had the tvs, though they were not used.

I was unaware they were taking this whole no IFE nonsense so far.

Thanks for the correction, and welcome to my RR list.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 46):

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
All NW has done is basic cost cutting, many of their larger issues have not been addressed.

And those issue are? The cost base of the airline is what makes the difference between profit and deficit. Our route system is probably the most solvent of the big six. It's not a complicated system, flight run East-West, North-South with the hubs smack dab in the middle of the country. What we don't have is overly congested hubs, with poor operating enviroments, (Hello, ORD, NYC, DFW, SFO and a host of others), or old terminals, poorly situated, over crowded terminals. Our labour costs(unfortunatly for me) are the lowest of the 6 major carriers. We're making money, IN BANKRUPTCY which is something that most carriers are able to do, (US, and UA) as bankruptcy court costs usually swallow up any chance of making a profit while under bankruptcy reorganisation.

Based on what I've read of the mandatory filings, your domestic route structure is the most profitable of the legacies, however your international most certainly is not. In that aspect, the 'old' system of flying more or less just from NW hubs to AMS and NRT. NW not having a good pacific gateway is a liability. What NW needs is more in the way of european route networks and more diversified asian routes. AA and DL have been expanding their european route networks. of course cutting your costs in bk will restore profitability, it's implementing the larger fixes that will keep the company there.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 47):
NW will soon be all but alone in their lack of IFE, most of CO's 737s are soon to be NG's with IFE, their 757s are also equipt, UA's A320s and 757s have IFE, DL is adding PTVs, sorrily NW seems to have moved the wrong direction on this one.

Well, starting in May, when we begin the 757's to Europe. NW will be issuing portable entertainment players to WBC passengers with multiple selections to choose from. It is widely believed that if these become popular, NW will be carrying these for rental aboard domestic flights if they prove bring praises. It'll be another thing we have to account for, but if helps the company's bottom line, so be it. Another reason we'll be the most productive flight attendants in the industry.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 47):
I remember having seen them all over the 757/A320 fleets at one point, and had noticed I hadn't seen them used in some time, however I was unaware they were gone. I suppose i merely assumed a319 had them since a320 had them, though come to think of it, i'm not sure i've taken a NW A319 on a flight far enough to expect IFE... i usually try to book on a 757, though my last 757 flight still had the tvs, though they were not used.

The system was expensive to maintain and unreliable. The flipdown screen, similar to those like on the 753's, were burning up, seizing in the stowed position. The IFE system was on ships 3201-3230. Any aircraft delivered afterwards, did not have the on. The system was deactivated in 1997, and system was removed from the aircraft by the end of 1998. The first A319's came into the fleet in 1999. 757 ships 5501-5534 had the monitors and VTR's removed completely during the late spring. The newer 752's, ships 5635-5657 still have them on, but they're deactivated. It is thought that they'll be getting a new, updated entertainment system like those found on the 753's(5801-5816) when they upgrade the interiors of those aircraft. It's unknown at this point if the 5500's will get a facelift.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 47):
Thanks for the correction, and welcome to my RR list.

Thanks, ditto.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 47):
however your international most certainly is not. In that aspect, the 'old' system of flying more or less just from NW hubs to AMS and NRT.

That I would agree with. Our interational routes are simple and too weak becuase of the hubs where they originate. The markets that could be most well served from DTW is the middle east which NW hasn't yet tapped, and with the exploding economies in the Gulf States, the introduction of the 787 will be an important component to the fleet. This aircraft will open up more market for us. The problem is the over capacity in the US-international market place is to overserved and too competitve. Unfortunately, DTW MSP, and SEA seem to be the only cities in our markets that can sustain traffic from both Europe and Asia. We depend heavily on NRT and AMS becuase we know we're goin to fill seats on aircraft. Our alliance with KLM is our lifeline to Europe, and AF is begining to fill that catagory. We have the unique opportunity to have openskies with a country like India whereas Europe does not. And that openskies treaty extends to our destinations in Europe, which is why we were, a few years ago, we serving DEL and BOM daily form AMS where KLM could not. Big advantage for us. As afar as NRT, our built up presence is Japan due to the US-Japan Bilateral Agreement allows us unlimited access to virtually all of Japan's major gateways. DUring the last few years, that has been our saving grace, allow us to diversify our operation through 5th freedom rights(ie, the A320's during the SARs epidemic, and the introduction of new destinations utilising 757 aircraft our of NRT/NGO/KIX). It is a tired operation, which why we were trying to restart sevice to PVG after a 4 year absence. We never should have pulled out in the first place, but as NW always is, we were reactionary. Some say we pulled out becuase our alliance with Air China was ending but 3 months after, we linked up with China Southern. I believe we made a huge mistake in buying the A330. We should have gotten the 777. That aircraft would have allowed us to serve markets like DTW-ICN, HKG, MSP-KIX, JFK-NRT, and many others possibly from the west coast.
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sk601
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: NorthWest Great Internl But Dreadful Domestic

Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:17 pm

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
There was no IFE or ant other entertainment

Funny that nobody mentioned anything about NW in Europe: KLM. (in regards to IFE). Like NW, KL is NOT offering ANY IFE on their F50/F70/F100/B737 fleet. No flipdown screens, no audio, nothing! And KL flies their B737 as far as ATH/TIP/IST/TLV/SVO, flights up to 4-5hrs.
However KLs LCC spin-off -Transavia airlines- does offer IFE!!

Personally I don't mind that I'm not able to watch tv for a couple of hours. My problem with NW domestic flights is that the FA's have a "I don't care attitude". Keep in mind that I make only a few flights a year (<5) so I guess I just have bad luck.

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