luisde8cd
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Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:59 am

During a work session at midnight Jan 1st, Evo Morales has signed a decree which imposes visas for Americans citizens. According to Morales the restriction is an act of "reciprocity". Will AA be hurt by this measure?

http://www.unionradio.com.ve/Noticias/Noticia.aspx?NoticiaId=190721

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Luis
 
commavia
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:05 am

It may impact inbound U.S.-originating tourism, but how much of that really was there to Bolivia anyway, especially after the recent government change? Personally, I don't see this affecting AA all that much since the vast majority of the traffic AA carries from Miami to VVI/LPB is O&D VFR and business traffic and since American is pretty much the only major game in town, I doubt they'll see too much of a share shift.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:40 am

As stated previously, while AA loads might experience an ever so slight decrease, if anything this will hurt Bolivia more than anything.

By making tourism access harder, the country will loose on dollar income as the nations hastle factor increases compared to other regional neighbors which do not impose such restrictions on US citizens.

While 'reciprocity' might be a noble stand, the power of the dollar in many ways is king.
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ikramerica
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
During a work session at midnight Jan 1st, Evo Morales has signed a decree which imposes visas for Americans citizens. According to Morales the restriction is an act of "reciprocity".

It will just hurt Bolivia, as it will make it even harder to conduct business there.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
While 'reciprocity' might be a noble stand, the power of the dollar in many ways is king.

What is noble about it? The USA set a new standard for all entrants to the country. It may not be welcomed, but it is egalitarian.

Bolivia responds by imposing a visa on the USA, but not other countries. They have a right to do it, but how is being vindictive noble? Are they worried about Americans coming to Bolivia to blow it up? Or moving to Bolivia illegally? If so, then the visa makes sense. But I doubt it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
imatams
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
It may impact inbound U.S.-originating tourism, but how much of that really was there to Bolivia anyway

Not too much I reckon... There are quite a lot of tourists in Bolivia however mainly backpacker travellers and there are not too many Americans among those anywhere in the world, icluding Bolivia... Now if it was the UK, or Australia or Germany the inpact on Bovilian tourism would be a lot bigger I suppose...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Are they worried about Americans coming to Bolivia to blow it up?

If that was the measure... I don't think the US is or should be too worried about Bolivians blowing things up in the US...
 
EddieDude
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
The USA set a new standard for all entrants to the country.

Well, the nationals of certain countries do not need a visa to enter the U.S. Or has this changed in the past few days?
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atmx2000
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting IMatAMS (Reply 4):

If that was the measure... I don't think the US is or should be too worried about Bolivians blowing things up in the US...

You left out the other thing Ikramerica wrote:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Or moving to Bolivia illegally?

He probably should have written that one first.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 5):

Well, the nationals of certain countries do not need a visa to enter the U.S. Or has this changed in the past few days?

Nope.

There are two reasons for visa requirements. The principle one is to prevent illegal immigration, and is determined by the frequency with which nationals of a particular country end up overstaying, working illegally and maybe illegally entering the US. The data for nationals of countries in the visa waiver program indicates they don't do those things above a certain threshold frequency set by US law.

The other reason is criminal activity, whether that be terrorism or other felonious activity. The frequency for that type of activity is a lot lower than illegal immigration for most populations, but is obviously more troublesome when it occurs. The application of such criteria is generally on an individual basis.
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LipeGIG
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
During a work session at midnight Jan 1st, Evo Morales has signed a decree which imposes visas for Americans citizens. According to Morales the restriction is an act of "reciprocity". Will AA be hurt by this measure?

Every single restriction IMO affects demand. If you know the selected destination demands a Visa, many people will try to select another one.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
As stated previously, while AA loads might experience an ever so slight decrease, if anything this will hurt Bolivia more than anything.

Agree 100% !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:31 pm

The effect will probably not be felt much by American Airlines, if at all. USA-Bolivia traffic is largely composed of Bolivians, both living in the US (South Florida and Northern Virginia are the only major concentrations of Bolivians in the US).

Miami-La Paz-Santa Cruz-Miami is one of AA's strongest performing LatAm routes in terms of yields and was recently upgraded to 12 weekly flights year-round.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:57 pm

I don't think there will even be much of an effect on tourism. After all, Brazil has a similar "reciprocity visa," and Americans do visit Brazil. I've not seen any empirical indication that that policy hurts tourism in Brazil.

On the other hand, it seems like it might be smarter for Bolivia to take the path of their neighbors to the west (Chile) rather than their neighbors to the east (Brazil) on this issue. For those who are unaware, Chile charges an entry fee equal to the fee necessary to apply for a visa from a passport holder's home country. IIRC, citizens of the U.S., Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, and Australia must pay. The fee is collected at the airport and is good for the life of the passport. It puts the same amount of money in the coffers, permits the government to tell its people (and, to a lesser extent, the world community) that it does engage in reciprocity, and avoids a lot of the backlash and hassle associated with a visa application.
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MAH4546
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
I don't think there will even be much of an effect on tourism. After all, Brazil has a similar "reciprocity visa," and Americans do visit Brazil. I've not seen any empirical indication that that policy hurts tourism in Brazil.

It does, very negatively. You would see Americans flocking to Brazil's beach resorts (which are not just beautiful, but cheap) if there were no Visa ristrictions. Tourism between the US and Brazil is extremely limited because of the visa.

The difference between Brazil and Bolivia is that Brazil has a tourism industry, and Bolivia pretty much does not.
a.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Mexico, New Zealand, and Australia must pay

I was unaware Chileans need a visa to visit Mexico for leisure. Are you sure?
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Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
You would see Americans flocking to Brazil's beach resorts (which are not just beautiful, but cheap) if there were no Visa ristrictions. Tourism between the US and Brazil is extremely limited because of the visa.

Yeah, that's the easy conclusion to jump to, but I'm wondering about actual evidence to back it up. Uruguay, for example, has nice beaches and is cheap, but it's not exactly a mecca for beachgoing Americans. So how much of the lack of Americans is the visa requirement and how much is the availability of so many closer and equally lovely destinations?
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atmx2000
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
Yeah, that's the easy conclusion to jump to, but I'm wondering about actual evidence to back it up. Uruguay, for example, has nice beaches and is cheap, but it's not exactly a mecca for beachgoing Americans. So how much of the lack of Americans is the visa requirement and how much is the availability of so many closer and equally lovely destinations?

I'm sure distance plays a role. As for Uruguay, it isn't exactly a country that pops into an American's mind when thinking about vacation spots on even South America.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
For those who are unaware, Chile charges an entry fee equal to the fee necessary to apply for a visa from a passport holder's home country.

Which is a silly form of recipricocity, considering the cost for processing a visa application is likely a lot higher in the US due to more expensive labor.
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MAH4546
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):

Yeah, that's the easy conclusion to jump to, but I'm wondering about actual evidence to back it up. Uruguay, for example, has nice beaches and is cheap, but it's not exactly a mecca for beachgoing Americans. So how much of the lack of Americans is the visa requirement and how much is the availability of so many closer and equally lovely destinations?

That isn't a good comparison. First of all, the Uraguay isn't cheap. Punta del Este is a popular destination among wealthy Americans who can afford to stay there. Uraguay also doesn't have the image that Brazil has, and most Americans would be unable to point out Uraguay on a map, let alone know that it has anything to offer.

The visa requirement probably has a huge effect, and Brazil knows this, which is why they are studying the implemation of a tourist visa program. The availability of closer destinations is also a detriment, but Europeans also have the same thing, and they still flock to Brazil. Getting rid of the visa requirement, or switching to a visa that Americans purchase at the airport, will open up huge new doors. It will allow tourist commissions to more actively advertise in the US and travel companies to go after more American tourists. Right now, they focus their efforts on Europe, because with no visas needed, it is an easy trip for them. Seriously, outside of Miami and New York, where TAM and travel agents heavily (and successfully) push Brazilian vacations to destinations like Salvador, Americans don't even realize Brazil is more than Rio.

I agree with you that it isn't the only reason, but I do think it is the biggest reason. The tourist visa requirement creates a whole chain of events - the biggest being that Brazilian companies do little to advertise in the US because of it.

[Edited 2007-01-02 05:42:50]
a.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 13):

Which is a silly form of recipricocity, considering the cost for processing a visa application is likely a lot higher in the US due to more expensive labor.

I don't think so. Chile gets their $100. They get to say that they are reciprocating. And they do so without hurting tourism, at least not a whole lot. After all, if you've bought a $1000 plane ticket, what's $100 more?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
I agree with you that it isn't the only reason, but I do think it is the biggest reason. The tourist visa requirement creates a whole chain of events - the biggest being that Brazilian companies do little to advertise in the US because of it.

I buy that, and FWIW, Uruguay isn't a great comparison, it's just the only beach environment that's even remotely close to offering what Brazil does.
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LipeGIG
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
The visa requirement probably has a huge effect, and Brazil knows this, which is why they are studying the implemation of a tourist visa program

This is right, and adding some info to MAH4546 post, our congress is trying to bypass the Reciprocity Rule (which drives international relations for more than 100 years) in order to create a market for example in the northeast for millions of americans every year. There are some studies attached to the law project stating that Brazil could receive up to 5 million americans per year without a Visa Policy (or an easy policy), creating thousand of jobs and opportunity even to poor people. Also imagine huge investments by large hotel chains (at this time there are at least 10 resorts under construction in Rio, Bahia, Pernambuco and other northeast states), restaurants, infra-structure... all of this is development nowadays not available because of a single law.

But there is another side... Brazil could send more tourists also to the US, it's really necessary that US easy also their visa policy. We are very famous in New York and Miami areas because of the large daily expenditures.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ikramerica
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting IMatAMS (Reply 4):
If that was the measure... I don't think the US is or should be too worried about Bolivians blowing things up in the US...

I wasn't trying to say that. My point was that the restrictions have gotten tougher for all countries (okay, not exactly all, but even the non-visa countries have to use new passports with biodata OR the traveler needs a visa, or that's how it will be soon).

The two main reasons for this are immigration and national security. Bolivia may not fall into number 2, but it does into number 1. The terrorism problem allowed the state department to tighten restrictions for both reasons, as it's much harder to just say flat out that a nation is losing too many nationals to emigration. It's an insult, and one that Bolivia obviously understood as such, and is throwing a fit.

Good for them. They get in the news, they get to be anti-US a little bit, curry favor with neighbors in the region, etc.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
For those who are unaware, Chile charges an entry fee equal to the fee necessary to apply for a visa from a passport holder's home country.

This is a much better solution. Not only does it equalize the issue, but it allows them to charge a nice entry fee, which is very popular in latam countries anyway.

Do they also charge an exit fee?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
123
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:14 pm

The whole measure only reflects the total anti-US policy of Cuba, Venezuela and nowadays Bolivia.

I think it is a very dangerous step - however justified with reciprocity - and as many of you indicated, the only looser will be the country because the international credibility will lower even more due to lack of judicial safety.

AA will without doubt loose pax - but also LB and 5L, but that is the lower loss. The higher loss is, that being Bolivia so unattractive now due to judicial uncertainty, even less trust and visitors from abroad will we now have.

Tourism, business, investment, intenational credibility, and in short, anything that lives from direct US participation in Bolivia, will be the looser.

Living in Bolivia, I can only indicate through this forum my anger and regret to such a measure, and express to fellow a.netters and US citizens, "sorry for my countries measures....".

Let´s keep the aviation forum up: Indeed the airlines will have losses and it´s more, programmed new routes Bolivia/USA will probably get red ink.
 
787kq
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
The visa requirement probably has a huge effect, and Brazil knows this, which is why they are studying the implemation of a tourist visa program.

The visa requirements make a large difference for short trips not planned far in advance to mass-tourism destinations. Most going to Brazil, from the US anyway, either know they are going way in advance or, if going on short notice, are savvy enough to use a visa service with a two or three day turnaround. So for those headed to Brazil and Bolivia, there is little or no effect. Although Rio inspires mass tourism, the distance takes it out of the easy beach vacation category, such as to the Caribbean, where visa requirements would make a difference.

Bolivia is not a mass-tourism destination. Those headed there must have a reason of their own for going (cheap, low-spending backpackers; sophisticated, high-end adventure tourists, mountain-climbers, VFR) and will go whether there is a visa requirement or not.

It won't make a difference.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
Do they also charge an exit fee?

Nope, which is also very pleasant. And in another difference from some of their neighbors, they do accept credit cards to pay the fee. I've heard some dreadful stories of trying to leave EZE and other airports in South America and having to scrounge for the cash to pay the exit fee.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bond007
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
You would see Americans flocking to Brazil's beach resorts (which are not just beautiful, but cheap) if there were no Visa ristrictions.

You certainly wouldn't see them 'flocking'.

You can quite easily get a tourist visa for Brazil in around 3 days if you have to - vacations are booked way in advance for that to be an issue. It'll cost you around $100 - not a problem when most tourist expenses in Brazil are cheap, as you say. This visa would be part of any package vacation deal.

Maybe you'd get a few more tourists, but that's about all. Not too many Americans take 8hr+ flights and a connection, just for a cheap beach - they can go to the Carribbean or Cancun for a slightly more expensive one (and a much cheaper flight), and stay for shorter times.

The resorts might be much better than Cancun, but that's where us people will continue to 'flock' unfortunately.


Jimbo

[Edited 2007-01-02 16:57:51]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
RIHNOSAUR
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
There are two reasons for visa requirements. The principle one is to prevent illegal immigration, and is determined by the frequency with which nationals of a particular country end up overstaying, working illegally and maybe illegally entering the US. The data for nationals of countries in the visa waiver program indicates they don't do those things above a certain threshold frequency set by US law.

OK...could you back this up with fuhrer evidence, I am not entirely sure this is accurate, although it could be true,

take the case of Costa Rican's...I highly doubt that The # of Ticos staying illegally or who comitt crimes (or fit the parameters you mentioned) in the US come even close to those of the Neighboring countries, and the the visa restrictions and fees are exactly the same as those in Nicaragua, Honduras and panama...(no offense to these countries intended  Smile )

So if what you say is true, it seems like visa restrictions for Costa Ricans would be quite less severe (maybe even qualify for a waiver program) as compared to its neighbors and I can assure it IS NOT.

it does not seem to me that the criteria for visa waiver is as simple as you put it.
particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
 
wukka
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:21 am

Would all U.S. citizens wishing to go to Bolivia please raise their hands?

That said, Bolivia, go ahead and throw a Visa restriction on the U.S.

Be strong, be proud. Do what you think you have to do.

Who is _really_ losing in this political game?

Now would all Bolivians wishing to go to the U.S. please raise their hands?

Hmmm... Interesting.
We can agree to disagree.
 
wukka
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:39 am

I thought that the topic was "Bolivia" and not "Braz(s)il"?

I had a whole "Blame it on Rio" dialogue set to go until I realized that I would have been off topic sharing it.

So you go, Mr. Braz(s)il!!! with all of your "point" and whatnot.

Off topic. Suggest Deletion.

:P
We can agree to disagree.
 
A300 American
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:41 am

If memory serves (sometimes doesn't), similiar thing happened with Brasil. U.S. imposed a VISA requirement for Brazilians entering the U.S. Brasil countered by imposing VISA requierments for U.S. citizens traveling to Brasil. Having said that, BRASIL and BOLIVIA are worlds apart (Brasil is an economic powerhouse whereas Bolivia isn't). Evo Morales would just be making it more difficult for his people to emmigrate to the U.S. Evo is just making his buddies Castro and Hugo Chavez happy. In the end, Bolivia is the one getting hurt. (I'm starting to get political, so I'll just stop here............)

Peruvians are required to enter the U.S. by having a VISA. Whereas U.S. citizens are NOT required a VISA to enter Peru and spend their tourist dollars. Should Peru impose VISA requierments for U.S. citizens (like Bolivia just did), they would be just shooting themselves in the foot.

Being a US citizen living in Peru for almost 8 years, I know what it's like to see countries "shoot themselves in the foot".
 
nzrich
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Chile charges an entry fee equal to the fee necessary to apply for a visa from a passport holder's home country. IIRC, citizens of the U.S., Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, and Australia must pay. The fee is collected at the airport and is good for the life of the passport. It puts the same amount of money in the coffers, permits the government to tell its people (and, to a lesser extent, the world community) that it does engage in reciprocity, and avoids a lot of the backlash and hassle associated with a visa application.

New Zealand is not included or its is no longer included on this list now .. Free entry with no visa or $$ payable for New Zealanders to enter Chile and the same for Chileans visiting NZ..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
RIHNOSAUR
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:41 am

many peolpe here are saying:

"well Bolivia will loose this political war because US tourism will decrease...."

but that is under the assumption that Bolivia cares about loosing American tourists..

maybe the current Bolivian administration is willing to loose its corresponding share of income due to this visa restriction.
I.E. they don't CARE....and are are perfectly content with the amount of tourism from other countries who do not have such restrictions on them....

there is a saying in Spanish that goes:

"lo que es bueno para el ganso es bueno para la gansa"

what is good for the gander is good for the goose

just a thought.
particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
 
nzrich
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:11 am

If im planning a holiday i usually check out the country first then check if i need visas and all.. I have usually decided to go then and it doesnt matter if i require a visa or not .. I wont change countries just based on a visa or not .. Not unless its a last minute decision when it may be difficult to get the visa on time...
"Pride of the pacific"
 
MAH4546
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 27):
maybe the current Bolivian administration is willing to loose its corresponding share of income due to this visa restriction.
I.E. they don't CARE....and are are perfectly content with the amount of tourism from other countries who do not have such restrictions on them....

If they had a tourism from the US, you'd bet they would care. Fact is that there is barely any tourism between the US and Bolvia, with the little there is being backpackers. Bolivia isn't going to be losing much, if anything.
a.
 
ULMFlyer
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting A300 American (Reply 25):
If memory serves (sometimes doesn't), similiar thing happened with Brasil. U.S. imposed a VISA requirement for Brazilians entering the U.S.

Actually, the recent incident you remember was that of a federal judge ordering Americans to be fingerprinted at GRU to maintain reciprocity. Fortunately, it didn't last long.

The US has required tourist visas from Brazilians for a long time (I got my first one in 1985) and I think the US is right. Otherwise, many would immigrate illegally. GWB even had to ask Fox to require a visa of Brazilians entering Mexico, as many were using this route to cross the border.

The only ridiculous thing about the process in Brazil is the incompetence of the US Consulates and Embassy, as current waiting times for interviews are measured in months. Other South American countries have waiting times of days.

I don't know how long exactly, but I assume that Brazil has unfortunately used reciprocity for quite some time. I had never heard of the Chilean policy, but it makes perfect sense to me. Brazil should adopt it asap, since it eliminates the hassle to the American tourists, but still allows the country to reap the financial benefits of a visa.
Let's go Pens!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 26):
Free entry with no visa or $$ payable for New Zealanders to enter Chile and the same for Chileans visiting NZ..

Thanks, Nzrich. I tried to do the list off the top of my head and apparently didn't get it right. Do you know if Australians have to pay? I seem to remember that someone from your part of the world did...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dellatorre
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:20 am

I don't understand why the topics here always end up being "I'm American or European and there is something happening in the world against me", "Is it fare, we have tons of money??", "Why, we dont really need them, so whatever".

Sorry guys, some of you may not agree.

If Bolivia decided to impose visas, good or bad for them, it's their own problem. This maneuver may be a mistake, but only time will tell!!! I just wish sometimes people would stop looking into their own bellies!!! You cant get everything u know!!!! The fact you come from a "rich country" doesn't always make you the last "slice of pizza" out there.

I know that was pretty sloppy!!!!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 32):
I don't understand why the topics here always end up being "I'm American or European and there is something happening in the world against me", "Is it fare, we have tons of money??", "Why, we dont really need them, so whatever".

I'm curious what you saw in this thread that made you feel this way...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dellatorre
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
As stated previously, while AA loads might experience an ever so slight decrease, if anything this will hurt Bolivia more than anything.

By making tourism access harder, the country will loose on dollar income as the nations hastle factor increases compared to other regional neighbors which do not impose such restrictions on US citizens.

While 'reciprocity' might be a noble stand, the power of the dollar in many ways is king.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Bolivia responds by imposing a visa on the USA, but not other countries. They have a right to do it, but how is being vindictive noble? Are they worried about Americans coming to Bolivia to blow it up? Or moving to Bolivia illegally? If so, then the visa makes sense. But I doubt it.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 13):
Which is a silly form of recipricocity, considering the cost for processing a visa application is likely a lot higher in the US due to more expensive labor.
 
Arcano
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):

I was unaware Chileans need a visa to visit Mexico for leisure. Are you sure?

I'm not aware we need to pay a visa or fee for visiting Mexico. I don't remember being charged of that, unless it was somehow paid by the agency/airline.

But yes, Mexicans have to pay US15.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 26):
New Zealand is not included or its is no longer included on this list now .. Free entry with no visa or $$ payable for New Zealanders to enter Chile and the same for Chileans visiting NZ..



Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 30):
I had never heard of the Chilean policy,

As porsted, you don't have to make paperwork, just arrive to the country and pay the fee, which is now abailable for USA, Australia, Mexico and Canada, all at different values. I don't know what happen with citizens of other countries that might demand visa for Chilean passport holders, as Egypt or Russia. Any idea?
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atmx2000
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting RIHNOSAUR (Reply 22):
So if what you say is true, it seems like visa restrictions for Costa Ricans would be quite less severe (maybe even qualify for a waiver program) as compared to its neighbors and I can assure it IS NOT.

Either your country has visa waiver or it doesn't. Getting a visa will be the same regardless if your country doesn't qualify for visa waiver. I can look at Costa Rica's per capita GDP and guess that they are far from qualifying for it, as the economic incentive to overstay, illegally enter, and work in the US are great. It's per capita GDP is half of South Korea's, which still doesn't qualify for visa waiver because too many Koreans overstay in the US, despite its well developed economy.

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 30):
I don't know how long exactly, but I assume that Brazil has unfortunately used reciprocity for quite some time. I had never heard of the Chilean policy, but it makes perfect sense to me. Brazil should adopt it asap, since it eliminates the hassle to the American tourists, but still allows the country to reap the financial benefits of a visa.

It should be noted that US visa application fees are user fees meant to cover the processing costs. I would understand reciprocrating with the same fee if the fee were excessive in relation to the cost of processing an application, but $100 fee is nothing unusual in the US. Many colleges and universities charge application fees that are in that range.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On

Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Arcano (Reply 35):
I don't know what happen with citizens of other countries that might demand visa for Chilean passport holders, as Egypt or Russia. Any idea?

I think Egyptians and Russians do need visas to get in to Chile, don't they? The IATA information I have says they do.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 36):
I can look at Costa Rica's per capita GDP and guess that they are far from qualifying for it, as the economic incentive to overstay, illegally enter, and work in the US are great. It's per capita GDP is half of South Korea's, which still doesn't qualify for visa waiver because too many Koreans overstay in the US, despite its well developed economy.

There are a lot of forces at work within the visa waiver program for which you are not accounting. Within the government, there's a fair amount of institutional resistance to change in the visa waiver program. Adding countries takes an act of Congress, so it's not as simple as seeing a country developing and the State Department throwing it on the list.

In addition, the program has become somewhat political. Rick Santorum, for example has lobbied for years to get Poland into the program not because of economic or social conditions in Poland (the economy is not in great shape; there's a definite incentive to overstay) but rather because of the large number or ethnic Poles in Pennsylvania and, more specifically, . So to say that Costa Rica is not in visa waiver because it is too poor and would have an illgeal immigration problem is at least an oversimplification and perhaps completely false.
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gabo787
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Nope, which is also very pleasant. And in another difference from some of their neighbors, they do accept credit cards to pay the fee. I've heard some dreadful stories of trying to leave EZE and other airports in South America and having to scrounge for the cash to pay the exit fee.

I can asure you that in EZE you can pay your exit fee with credit cards, debit cards, Dollars, Euros, and local currency.
 
L-188
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting 123 (Reply 18):
The whole measure only reflects the total anti-US policy of Cuba, Venezuela and nowadays Bolivia.

Either that or your president finally rented the classic Newman/Redford film "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and thinks that is a typical american tourist.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting Gabo787 (Reply 38):

I can asure you that in EZE you can pay your exit fee with credit cards, debit cards, Dollars, Euros, and local currency.

Interesting. There's some part of the process that confuses gringos, as several of my friends have complained to me about it. I was under the (evidently mistaken) impression that it was a form of payment issue. Maybe I'm confused and its Peru where they only take cash? I swore it was Argentina...
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Arcano
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting Gabo787 (Reply 38):
I can asure you that in EZE you can pay your exit fee with credit cards, debit cards, Dollars, Euros, and local currency.

Not with Mastercard, which makes it even more unacceptable ...
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Neo
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:21 pm

Clearly, this measure will cause little effect on traffic between US and Bolivia.



As, for Brazil i totally disagree visa restriction have a lot to do with the number of American turist. This assumption if

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
The visa requirement probably has a huge effect, and Brazil knows this, which is why they are studying the implemation of a tourist visa program

This is right, and adding some info to MAH4546 post, our congress is trying to bypass the Reciprocity Rule (which drives international relations for more than 100 years) in order to create a market for example in the northeast for millions of americans every year. There are some studies attached to the law project stating that Brazil could receive up to 5 million americans per year without a Visa Policy (or an easy policy), creating thousand of jobs and opportunity even to poor people. Also imagine huge investments by large hotel chains (at this time there are at least 10 resorts under construction in Rio, Bahia, Pernambuco and other northeast states), restaurants, infra-structure... all of this is development nowadays not available because of a single law.

Sorry Felipe, I have to disagree here... Should Brazil cancel the visa requirement to Americans tomorrow.. I doubt we would see them flocking down to our beaches.. this assumption is exagerated. Visa generally has little to do with in the decision of which country to go to.. (unless is very hard to get one). I have lived in the US for almost an year, and today have many American clients, and not once I heard Visa was a obisticle for coming to Brazil.

All I'm saying is that the number of American coming to Brazil does not rely so much on visa requirements, but rather in promotion and advertisement.. If that was the case, Brazil woud have cancel it long time ago...

Rgs,

Neo
 
rojo
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
On the other hand, it seems like it might be smarter for Bolivia to take the path of their neighbors to the west (Chile) rather than their neighbors to the east (Brazil) on this issue. For those who are unaware, Chile charges an entry fee equal to the fee necessary to apply for a visa from a passport holder's home country. IIRC, citizens of the U.S., Canada, Mexico, New Zealand, and Australia must pay. The fee is collected at the airport and is good for the life of the passport. It puts the same amount of money in the coffers, permits the government to tell its people (and, to a lesser extent, the world community) that it does engage in reciprocity, and avoids a lot of the backlash and hassle associated with a visa application.

For Mexican citizens it is not valid for the life of the passport, it has to be paid every time they enter Chile.

Quoting Arcano (Reply 35):
I'm not aware we need to pay a visa or fee for visiting Mexico. I don't remember being charged of that, unless it was somehow paid by the agency/airline.

But yes, Mexicans have to pay US15.

As a citizen of Chile, you don't have to pay for a VISA to enter Mexico, what you pay is a Tourist Tax of around US$20. This is why Chile charges Mexican citizens US$15. It is a reciprocity fee...
 
rojo
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Neo (Reply 42):
Sorry Felipe, I have to disagree here... Should Brazil cancel the visa requirement to Americans tomorrow.. I doubt we would see them flocking down to our beaches.. this assumption is exagerated. Visa generally has little to do with in the decision of which country to go to.. (unless is very hard to get one). I have lived in the US for almost an year, and today have many American clients, and not once I heard Visa was a obisticle for coming to Brazil.

I guess you haven't try to get a Brazilian Visa recently. I went with my cousins to the embassy in order to get their Visas for our trip to South America last year. Well, to our surprise, they only process 30 Visas in the Embassy of Brazil in Mexico City every day. You have to be there at 5am and with some luck you will get one of the 30 tickets; obviously, there are a lot more than 30 persons waiting to get a Visa. My cousins decided to skip Brazil and only go to Chile, Argentina and Uruguay. Additonally, many of my coworkers complain of the poor service offered by the Brazilian Embassy when applying for a Visa, since they do not have the resources to operate an efficient Visa application process...
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting Rojo (Reply 44):
I guess you haven't try to get a Brazilian Visa recently. I went with my cousins to the embassy in order to get their Visas for our trip to South America last year.

That's a regional issue, though. Folks in most of the U.S., for example, can get a Brazilian tourist visa by mail (for some reason, the Consulate in L.A. won't do them by mail, but the others will).
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ULMFlyer
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On

Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 36):

It should be noted that US visa application fees are user fees meant to cover the processing costs. I would understand reciprocrating with the same fee if the fee were excessive in relation to the cost of processing an application, but $100 fee is nothing unusual in the US. Many colleges and universities charge application fees that are in that range.

I see your point. But I would like to know how these costs are allocated in the application process. In other words, what are the costs of simply scheduling an interview over the internet (there's another fee just to do this!)? If consular employee wages are included, then I can see it reaching 100 USD. The problem is that this amount is not so small to third world countries. And when you see the number of visas that are denied in Rio after a consulate official asks 2 questions (note that I don't disagree with this), it certainly feels like a rip off to these people.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 44):
Well, to our surprise, they only process 30 Visas in the Embassy of Brazil in Mexico City every day. You have to be there at 5am and with some luck you will get one of the 30 tickets;

Sorry to hear that. This incompetence is most taxing and shameful. I tried to find who the ambassador was, but the lame embassy website does not say.
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sllevin
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting Neo (Reply 42):
I have lived in the US for almost an year, and today have many American clients, and not once I heard Visa was a obisticle for coming to Brazil.

I disagree. It's been an issue for me, as a 'marginal' tourist. I'm not deeply driven to go to Brazil, but if there were no visa requirement I probably would. It's one of those 'path of least resistance' things. And I think you'd be surprised how many upper-income people tend to only plan their vacations in the last 90-120 days before going.

Steve
 
dellatorre
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 47):
I disagree. It's been an issue for me, as a 'marginal' tourist. I'm not deeply driven to go to Brazil, but if there were no visa requirement I probably would. It's one of those 'path of least resistance' things. And I think you'd be surprised how many upper-income people tend to only plan their vacations in the last 90-120 days before going.

The same thing could be said here in Brazil!!!!
 
rojo
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RE: Bolivia Imposes Visa On US Citizens. Impact On AA?

Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 46):
Sorry to hear that. This incompetence is most taxing and shameful. I tried to find who the ambassador was, but the lame embassy website does not say.

Ambassador: Ivan Cannabrava
Consul: Gustavo da Veiga Guimaraes

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