MXComet4C
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Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:52 pm

According to www.flightstats.com, KLM by codesharing, can do Europe-America-Asia-Europe without stopping in the US or Canada:

(Mondays & Thursdays)
Amsterdam Schipol KL0685 Dep 13:00 Arr 17:50 AMS-MEX
Mexico City Juarez KL9032 Dep 21:45 Arr 06:45+2 MEX-TIJ-NRT
Tokyo Narita KL0862 Dep 12:20 Arr 16:20 NRT-AMS
Amsterdam Schipol

Can any other airline do the same without going through US/Canadian immigration & airports? Maybe via Africa/South America/Oceania/Antartica?

[Edited 2007-01-02 08:20:24]
Let's go UPN-DWN
 
ACDC8
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:02 pm

With code-sharing, I would think any alliance would be possible to do a RTW with out flying into Canada or the US.

As an example, you could take IB from Madrid to Santiago, then with LAN to Sydney, with Qantas to London and BA back to Madrid. All with One World.

[Edited 2007-01-02 08:11:25]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:12 pm

I didn't realize that Canadian immigration was a hassle for passengers connecting on to other international destinations. Wouldn't Mexican customs be required to get on a MEX-TIJ flight and wouldn't be greater because it is a domestic flight?

In YVR currently and in February at T1 in YYZ there is a normal customs by-pass for international connections.
 
MXComet4C
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:25 pm

Dear Canadian friends: Please excuse the word hassle in my previous post. I just edited it. I meant it for our common neighbor only.

Anyway, the main focus is: Can you go on a single airline designator around the world without stopping at the big Canadian and American airports like YYZ, YVR, JFK, LAX, etc.?
Let's go UPN-DWN
 
SB
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:52 pm

No no ... Canadian immigration is a hassle - even for Canadians  Wink That being said I don't know how picky we are on visas and such, but the interrogatory is enough for me.

It's just ludicrous that it's taking our airports so long to wake up to the fact that international transit does exist...

S.
"Confirm leave the hold and maintain 320kts?!"
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:00 pm

Quoting MXComet4C (Reply 3):
Dear Canadian friends: Please excuse the word hassle in my previous post. I just edited it. I meant it for our common neighbor only.

So it's cool to insult the United States, but not Canada?
 
MXComet4C
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:11 pm

There are absolutely no insults intended for anyone here.
Fact: US regulations are a hassle for foreigners traveling through the USA.
Can't we just focus on the question?:

Quoting MXComet4C (Reply 3):
Can you go on a single airline designator around the world without stopping at the big Canadian and American airports like YYZ, YVR, JFK, LAX, etc.?
Let's go UPN-DWN
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting MXComet4C (Reply 6):
There are absolutely no insults intended for anyone here.

Thanks. I appreciate it.  smile  As for the question, I'm really not sure -- nothing is coming to mind right now.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting SB (Reply 4):
Canadian immigration is a hassle - even for Canadians

It is highly irregular for a Canadian citizen to ever have contact with an immigration officer at an airport. The only time this would happen is if the frontline customs officer had doubts regarding the authenticity of the document provided by the person claiming to be a canadian citizen (eg. fake passport).
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
anax
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 5):
So it's cool to insult the United States, but not Canada?

why insult? it is true. big hassle either going in or going out of USA.
god is a spotter!!!
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting SB (Reply 4):
It's just ludicrous that it's taking our airports so long to wake up to the fact that international transit does exist...

Historically Canadian airports have never been places with any significant international-to-international transit pax. Therefore not a pressing concern to build those facilities.
Now however things have changed and places like YVR and YYZ are beginning to market themselves as connection hubs for their home airlines and to international carriers as an alternative to a USA transit.
I'm not sure about YVR's international-to-international transit facilities but YYZ will have their facilities operational from Feb. 1, 2007.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
ehho
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Anax (Reply 9):
big hassle either going in or going out of USA.

I don't really recall that. True, on arrival CBP tend to be slightly less friendly than their European counterparts, especially on flights originating in Latin America, but if you're friendly and cooperate they will return the favor.

On departure there aren't really any procedures to speak of. Once I checked in for my CO flight to GYE at EWR, and the check-in agent forgot to collect my US departure card from my passport. They tracked me down just as the door L1 was to be shut, and in a very friendly manner, with a lot of apologies, asked me for my passport to remove the thing.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
PHKLM
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 11):
On departure there aren't really any procedures to speak of. Once I checked in for my CO flight to GYE at EWR, and the check-in agent forgot to collect my US departure card from my passport. They tracked me down just as the door L1 was to be shut, and in a very friendly manner, with a lot of apologies, asked me for my passport to remove the thing.

You're visa waiver eligible, if you're not it becomes a completely different story.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:20 am

US immigration is a great pain, and so is Canadian.

I had a US immigration officer throw my passport at me after he stamped it and I had to pick it up on the floor... Trust me I had not done anything wrong, I was polite and smiling ... until then. Now I barely say hi, I am legal anyway so no worries. And you know what? I get better treatment.

As for the Canadians, they always treat you like you are trying to immigrate illegally and smuggle goods. I also had a custom officer one day who put his foot in the way of my luggage cart to block the wheel. What was that for? Did he think I would run away so fast pushing my cart that he would not be able to catch me?

They have to remember, again and again, that over 99% of travellers are legal and honest, so they should not be treated like dogs!
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:22 am

As regards code sharing around the world (the initial question) ... good you found KLM, I can't think of any airline, particularly avoiding the US and Canada.
 
LHRGregSE4
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting SB (Reply 4):
No no ... Canadian immigration is a hassle - even for Canadians That being said I don't know how picky we are on visas and such, but the interrogatory is enough for me.

It's just ludicrous that it's taking our airports so long to wake up to the fact that international transit does exist...

S.

Well what would you rather, them not being there at all. I don't know why people complain about customs/immigration; I have nothing to hide so they can ask me all the questions they want.
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting LHRGregSE4 (Reply 15):

Well what would you rather, them not being there at all. I don't know why people complain about customs/immigration; I have nothing to hide so they can ask me all the questions they want.

If the airport is secure enough that someone who is a transiting passenger can't leave the building without clearing customs then why would there be any advantage for customs/immigration to talk to international connecting passengers? The idea that you have nothing to hide so they can ask you anything they want doesn't repect your time and privacy considering that such questions are irrelevant to passengers continuing on to some other place. Before a government department hassles people with questions, retina scans, fingerprints, etc they should have some evidence that this makes a meaningful contribution to solving a problem. I'm pretty sure people on this forum can come up with questions you don't want to answer honestly regardless of whether or not you feel you have something to hide. You shouldn't have to provide your credit card if you aren't buying anything just like you shouldn't have to go through immigraton in a country you are not immigrating to or staying in.
 
rootsair
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:53 am

Since when is there a TIJ-NRT flight? that's pretty awkward !
Who operates it ?
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
aviationmaster
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 17):
Since when is there a TIJ-NRT flight? that's pretty awkward !
Who operates it ?

The TIJ-NRT is Aeromexico's new B777 flight which originates in MEX. I think the TIJ stop is for refuelling.
 
VEEREF
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:20 am

I am a US citizen and flight crew. In my travels worldwide I have to say by far the worst treatment I have recieved was upon entry back into my own country.

Not meant to be a blanket statement as the incidents were extremely isolated. But so far unique to the US.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting LHRGregSE4 (Reply 15):
Well what would you rather, them not being there at all. I don't know why people complain about customs/immigration; I have nothing to hide so they can ask me all the questions they want

Never have had any problems in the US or Canada, just zip right through, even with my family in tow. Had problems in th UK and other European destinations. I think that if you are honest and tell the truth you will not have a problem. But as I have seen a lot of people try to make themselves important and that is when they have problems, they are always in a rush. I have been told by an immigration friend of mine that when people get uppity that is when they will make sure you don't enjoy your trip through customs. Be patient, wait your turn and do not push and argue
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting Anax (Reply 9):
why insult? it is true. big hassle either going in or going out of USA.

US customs n immigration can be a pain alright but not on departure. You don't even come into contact with them when leaving the country, period.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:23 am

All this stimulating discussion makes me wonder, is it possible to go 'round the globe on one airline without stopping at any of North America's more fascinating departure lounges, complete with fake Starbucks knockoffs?
 
manny
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting Anax (Reply 9):
why insult? it is true. big hassle either going in or going out of USA.

You do not come in contact with immigration & customs while leaving the country. I don't know what the fuss is all about. In my personal experience US immigration & custom officers vary from being professional to friendly.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting Manny (Reply 23):

You do not come in contact with immigration & customs while leaving the country. I don't know what the fuss is all about. In my personal experience US immigration & custom officers vary from being professional to friendly.

My experience has been the same. One has to admit that, at the end of the day, customs & immigration people aren't customer service representatives. They're enforcing the law. In an age of trans-border terrorism, this sort of law enforcement is important; no matter how much we dislike the increase in airport security around the world post 9/11, I don't think anyone would say that it would be prudent to go back the ideal of the 1990s: no borders, anywhere, just cheap flights everywhere (with lots of sex and boozing once you get there).

Sorry for the rant.
 
SlowBus
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:09 am

It's interesting development after 9/11. Before it, the US were conceived by myself as a state, which may be strange or silly in some aspects, but never as a place to avoid on my trip. The freedom of movement was for me always maybe the most characteristic attribute of United States.
Unfortunately, this is changing and I'm very interested about my trip to California this year... Many friends told me about their bad experiencies with immigration officers, so let's see by myself  sour 
"Fly safely, son! Slow and low"
 
anax
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 11):
On departure there aren't really any procedures to speak of

what about the humiliating security control? because we seem to forget easily....
god is a spotter!!!
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 24):
no borders, anywhere, just cheap flights everywhere (with lots of sex and boozing once you get there).

Don't know about cheap in the 90's though...unless you meant cheap sex..  biggrin 

Quoting Anax (Reply 26):
what about the humiliating security control? because we seem to forget easily....

Humiliating?? Why is it that foreigners are the only one who complain about this. Just because it's strict doesn't mean it's humiliating. I've been SSSS'd a few times myself and I go through the same procedures as anyone else would but I don't look at it as humiliating. In this day and age, we should all get over it..unless they strip you down or something. Maybe your definition of 'humiliating' is different than mine.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
MXComet4C
Topic Author
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:24 pm

Is there, I mean it, -is there- another way to go around the world on one single airline designator avoiding the US and Canada?
Let's go UPN-DWN
 
MD13
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:34 am

In a few years from now you are going to be able to fly around the world with one airline, and that airline is..... Emirates!!!! No need for an alliance
 
Viscount724
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting MD13 (Reply 29):
In a few years from now you are going to be able to fly around the world with one airline, and that airline is..... Emirates!!!! No need for an alliance

You can do it today on Air New Zealand. Since they started their second daily AKL-LHR flight via HKG, NZ is the only current round the world operator using their own metal...AKL-HKG-LHR-LAX-AKL (in both directions of course). Unfortunately you can't avoid the USA on that routing.

As has already been mentioned, apart from the route using AM's new MEX-TIJ-NRT service, the only other RTW routes avoiding the USA and Canada would be via South America, using LA SCL-AKL-SYD or SCL-IPC (Easter Island)-PPT, or AR EZE-AKL-SYD.

Via MEX you could also use JL's twice-weekly MEX-YVR-NRT service. Although it stops in YVR, I wouldn't expect there would be much red tape (in any case, less than via the USA) for through passengers on the same aircraft not stopping over in Canada, and YVR has a transit lounge for passengers making direct connections between two foreign countries.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 19):
I am a US citizen and flight crew. In my travels worldwide I have to say by far the worst treatment I have recieved was upon entry back into my own country.

Flight crew are known for smuggling (very, very small percentage, but busts occur regularly enough), thus when returning to your home nation, I would expect you to get some scrutiny.

I've never had trouble reentering the USA in my life, but I know friends have had some issues.

As for leaving the USA, there is just no hassle, and it's easier than most other countries I've visited, because we don't have sterile International areas.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Around The World (No USA/Canada) By KLM

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting Manny (Reply 23):

You do not come in contact with immigration & customs while leaving the country. I don't know what the fuss is all about. In my personal experience US immigration & custom officers vary from being professional to friendly.

Foreigners now have to scan their fingerprint on departure from the US so while the departure isn't time consuming it is a requirement not seen in many other countries and definitely constitutes "coming in contact with immigration & customs".

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