LAXintl
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Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:36 am

THY has formally launched its long rumored search for long haul capacity replacing and providing growth beyond the current A340 fleet which entered service in 1993.

The request for proposals which will cover up to 20 aircraft including options is envisaged to compromise a split order for a combination of A340-600/A350XWB or B777-300ER/787 with planned 1st deliveries by 2008/2009 for the A346/773 and 2012 onwards for the A350/787.

Initial bids are due by late February for a likely decision in mid 2007.

While THY is no longer majority owned by the Turkish Government its likely however this order as with ones in the past will have a political spin to it which could certainly aid Boeing based on today's atmosphere and make this competition far from a slam dunk for Airbus.

[Edited 2007-01-02 18:41:51]
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ZRHnerd
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
While THY is no longer majority owned by the Turkish Government its likely however this order as with ones in the past will have a political spin to it which could certainly aid Boeing based on today's atmosphere and make this competition far from a slam dunk for Airbus

Why would this be an advantage for Boeing? With Turkey's effort of trying to join the EU i'd rather think the contrary is the case.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 1):
Why would this be an advantage for Boeing?

Not to get into politics, however Turkeys relations with Europe and France specifically have been cooled down quite a bit this year.

Turkey's EU entry talks have nearly stalled and frustration is mounting on the Turkish side that no matter what it does the EU will place additional road blocks in its path.

In addition France during the fall passed a bill rehashing 90 year old events from World War-1 and Armenian genocide. As a result their has been backlash against France, with even a consumer boycott of French goods.

The government for its part has also cancelled some military tender projects such as a helicopter acquisition from Europe, while just a couple weeks ago rejecting European offers for the Typhoon fighter and ordering 50 additional F-16s and entering final talks as a risk share partner on the JSF project.

As such irregarless of he merits of an A vs B products as long as politics is involved, this public competition could be used to send a message.
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aa1818
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:13 am

I think that the 773ER should be the obvious choice for Turkish Airlines. After all the A346 would have been advatageous if it was merely adding to the A343 fleet, but since that is getting replaced too, I think that the merits of commonality are diminished and the 773ER economics etc cannot and would not be ignored. In this case as well the 787 is available in 2012 in both the -8 and -9 and possibly the -10X. While the A350 is formidable competition, I think the 787 (larger models) and A350 models when produced will be as close to perfect substitutes in aviation as one can get. If it's a winner take all, I think the A346 vs 773ER could be the deal breaker. Airbus has politics in it's favour as does Boeing. the Eu has pissed off Turkey (score for Boeing), but will Turkey suck up some more to the EU and hope it gets another chance (score for Airbus!)...anyways- 2007 should have some interesting competitions and hopefully as many orders as we had in 2006!

Good luck with your decision Turkish Airlines!
AA1818
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ZRHnerd
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):

That's all correct, however Turkey are still desperately trying to join the EU, and with every action they will hurt nobody but themselves. But hey, this is not a politics forum, lets get back on topic  Wink
 
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N328KF
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 1):
Why would this be an advantage for Boeing? With Turkey's effort of trying to join the EU i'd rather think the contrary is the case.

Certain EU nations (*cough*-France-*cough*) have made Turkey's effort very difficult. Which ever direction you consider that affecting Turkish's bid is up to you.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:23 am

Finally.
Well we talked about this one for a long time. A343s average age is 11yrs., it would be wise to get some 340s and 330s by leasing (if found) while waiting for 787/350s. Since TK has them in the fleet it would be seamless, instead of adjusting to 777s. I still think 20 is not enough for replacing 340s and growing.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 1):
Why would this be an advantage for Boeing? With Turkey's effort of trying to join the EU i'd rather think the contrary is the case.

Sorry Laxintl, but no matter how you do this, this thread will turn into politics. But to put in my two cents, you are all correct about the latest EU/France and Turkish relations. But wait a minute, with the newly Democrat controlled US congress there is a talk about an "Armenian Genocide Bill".
TK will have a though choice to please both the big brother and the big sister.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:28 am

If the dollar stays as weak as it is, buying American could be advantageous.
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):
340s and 330s by leasing

I would not be surprised to see some supplementary capacity boost in the near term.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):



Quoting TK787 (Reply 6):

The way I understand the RFP, THY initially quickly wants a larger aircraft then the current A343s hence the consideration of the A346 and B773 that would serve current markets, while the A350/787 (versions to be determined) would come after 2012 and be primarily a growth aircraft along with potential additional A346/773s.

I suppose ideally a single family such as the 787/A350 would be preferable, but THY cannot wait till post 2012, and seems to be comfortable following the lead of a split 777/787 or A346/A350 order. For Boeings case in particular the manufacturer seems quite comfortable offering a mix/match 777/787 product as it has done for other operators such as Air Canada etc..
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:51 am

I dont think it will make any difference who puts pressure on THY as they will go for the best deal possible. The EU put alot of pressure on LOT and they ended up taking the 787's!!!

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Certain EU nations (*cough*-France-*cough*) have made Turkey's effort very difficult.

Hmm not just the French mate , I think im the only one in Ireland that actually wants them in !!! The French,Germans,Austrians,Irish and Belgians are all against Turkey joining. Funny thing is the Greeks are actively supporting Turkeys entry but I think this has more to do with making its own borders safer.
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:08 am

I want Turkey inside EU!

So can someone tell me now if they will get those planes metioned above or is it just a rumor?
Tom from Cologne
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:11 am

I think they will go for the 777. It offers just what they need in range, performance, and operating cost.

MCOflyer
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stylo777
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:17 am

In my eyes this discussion is like the others already discussed before on a.net. TK look forward for a long-haul fleet and that's the point where it ends.

just my  twocents 
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:47 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
The EU put alot of pressure on LOT and they ended up taking the 787's!!!

Exactly, and the F-16s. So who knows..

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 10):
is it just a rumor?

Coming from Laxintl, I doubt that. It was just a matter of time, some of us were expecting this last year when 787 delivery spots were more available. They sure could have used 773s today. Because of the Hajj return trips, TK has 10 flights to Jeddah from IST:
-2x738s
-2xA310s
-4xA343s
-1xA321
 
1981
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 12):
Q



Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
The EU put alot of pressure on LOT and they ended up taking the 787's!!!

All east block countries that get in E.U big mistake prefer American east block countries is an aircraft carrier in the heart of E.U
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
I dont think it will make any difference who puts pressure on THY as they will go for the best deal possible. The EU put alot of pressure on LOT and they ended up taking the 787's!!!

Right. LOT proved just because you're in the EU doesn't mean you have to settle for inferior products, like the A350 Version 4.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Greeks are actively supporting Turkeys entry but I think this has more to do with making its own borders safer.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 10):
or is it just a rumor?

No, news of the RFP was actually published a few days ago in one of the largest papers.

If you can decipher Turkish, the brief story is about 2/3 down the page.
http://hurarsiv.hurriyet.com.tr/goster/haber.aspx?id=5702440
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aa1818
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:58 am

Actually the more I think about it, the more I change my mind. Airbus' A350-1000X should do the job of a 773ER eventually. So THY can opt for A350s as the plane of choice and take either A346s or 773ERs as a stopgap until they can totally streamline their fleet. Sorry- I forgot about the A350-1000X when i initially expressed my views on this RFP above!!

AA1818
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Beaucaire
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:25 am

The French shot hemselves in the foot when they passed a law to punish Armenian massacer denial as crime...
Chirac's buddies from the armenian leage in Paris have not rendered service to the "grand nation"...
Turkish politicians have voiced anger and dismay about the French move and it certainly will hit back.I think this deal will go to Boeing for the above mentioned reasons-Ankara has oficially not dropped their intention to join Europe,but more and more Turkish industrialists and politicians understand ,that the country can very well live with a broad association agreement with Brussels.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 18):
that the country can very well live with a broad association agreement with Brussels.

Exactly, I dont know what all this ADDITCTION to be in the EU is . You can be outside the EU and be a successful nation. Look at Switzerland they seem to have the best of both worlds and we can still get duty free on a LHR to ZRH!!!

I do mildy believe that you should support your own within reason and LOT should have gone for Airbus A/C as they got a hell of alot of money from the EU to be honest. The Polish are rebels in that way!!!Lol

I dont think the A350 is inferior but personally I cant get excited about it. Now the A380 on another matter, im so excited to fly on it and see it. I also will be looking forward to getting on a 787, maybe a THY seeing as they are joining Star Alliance and I can cash in some miles in J !!! Now that will be nice.

Turkey is not in the EU and will not be for at least another 10 years so they have no obligation to buy Airbus. They will go for the best deal !!!
 
bahadir
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:24 am

I am not hopeful that this order will be decided on good economical decisions. Like the narrow body, the winner will be the one who gets the best cut to the managers. Let us not forget about this RFP, some party members of AKP need to make more commissions before they get voted out.
THY can easily pick up some more 340s and sustain the growth while they are putting in orders for 787s.
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wing
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:42 pm

When you go to a grossary store do you care if the owner is your friend or not?You give money and get what you need.

An airplane selection is not very different from this.You pay and buy what you need.Its not a good way of to put politics it this.Bear in mind that neither Europeans nor the USA is real friends of Turkey.They both base their political relations on their best needs.Why shouldn't Turkey and THY in this case.

The current governments jesture of buying A320's and A330's didn't bring any advantage on EU talks infact France didn't even hesitate the Armenian bill.

US will inavitably pass the Armenian bill too so what will we do boykott both Boeing and the Airbus?

The users(THY) on the other hand have to struggle to adjust many difficulties with the awkward A320 selection.(Now I know I fly and love flying the A320 but if I was making the decisions I wouldnt get any to a fleet having 50 something 737s.)

Briefly political decisions didnt bring any good to THY,so politicians should take their hands and let the technically knowlegable people decide.
But as pointed out perfectly below, sadly that looks not very much possible

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 20):
Let us not forget about this RFP, some party members of AKP need to make more commissions before they get voted out.
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ThereandBack
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 21):
(Now I know I fly and love flying the A320 but if I was making the decisions I wouldnt get any to a fleet having 50 something 737s.)

Even though they are brand new TK should drop the A320 and 321 in exchange for more 737's because of the commonality issue. It was a dumb mistake to bring in another type, like you said, with so many 737's in the fleet already.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Airlines Launches Long Haul RFP

Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting ThereAndBack (Reply 22):
Even though they are brand new TK should drop the A320 and 321 in exchange for more 737's because of the commonality issue. It was a dumb mistake to bring in another type, like you said, with so many 737's in the fleet already.

Actually it is possible that by 2015 we might see an all Boeing fleet, 737 and 787 variants.

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