Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:36 pm

Quote:
Another leading contender for freighter conversion on the low end is the A320 and A319, although the launch has been held up by Airbus until 2010 and 2011, says Didier Lenormand, director product marketing for Airbus. Some of the older A320s are ripe for conversion. But the situation is "so tight on the passenger side, its hard to justify the launch of the A320 freighter," he says.

Eventually, most Airbus A320s will be converted in Dresden by EADS/ Elbe Flugzeugwerke in Dresden, Germany and later in Russia by MIG and Irkut, with whom EADS signed a preliminary agreement for civil freight conversions.

Lenormand says Airbus expects to soon launch two factory-supplied versions of the A330-200 freighter. One will be capable of carrying 64 tonnes of cargo 4,000 nautical miles, while the other will carry 69 tonnes of cargo 3,200 nautical miles. Discussions with several lessors and airlines are ongoing, says Lenormand. First deliveries are expected during the second half of 2009.

http://www.aircargoworld.com/features/0107_1.htm

First time I see 2 A330-200F versions and a launch date for the A319F and A320F mentioned.
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WINGS
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):

First time I see 2 A330-200F versions and a launch date for the A319F and A320F mentioned.

Hi Flying-Tiger, actually all the information that you provided has become public during 2006, although it is the first time that I have read about the A319. It has been the A320 and A321 that has been mentioned for first conversions.

Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the industrial launch of the A332F.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
jonathan-l
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
First time I see 2 A330-200F versions

It's more like two different sets of design weights, as has been done on the A300-600F and can also be done on the A380F: MZFW is traded for MTOW depending on whether you want to privilege payload or range.
On the A330-200F, you have:
Range mode / payload mode
MTOW: 233 t / 227 t
MLW: 182 t / 187 t
MZFW: 173 t / 178 t
 
jonathan-l
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
although it is the first time that I have read about the A319

Journalist error or misinterpretation. The A320 and A321 are the first / current conversion candidates. The A319 is way too young.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:57 pm

The launch of factory built A32X frieghters would be a good insurence policy if sales start to slow as they'll be churnign out nearly 500 narrowbodies a year by 2011
 
WINGS
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 3):

Journalist error or misinterpretation. The A320 and A321 are the first / current conversion candidates. The A319 is way too young.

That was the conclusion that I also came to.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4):
The launch of factory built A32X frieghters would be a good insurence policy if sales start to slow as they'll be churnign out nearly 500 narrowbodies a year by 2011

I suspect that such a move would be unlikely, especially considering the number or A32X produced or on order. Cargo carrier es would likely look for used frames before factory built.


Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
Flying-Tiger, actually all the information that you provided has become public during 2006.

For those who read these forums closely and are able to separate loads of rumours by wannabe's from the occasional small hint by insiders, indeed it has already.

The launch order for 30 A332F at Farnborough which was recalled minutes after is was released when SQ decided to sign for 19 brand new A333s gave away Airbus' imminent intention to launch the freighter version of the A330 and since then both PanAm_DC10 and I have repeatedly hinted at this revised time schedule which Didier now publicly refers to as well in this interview.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the industrial launch of the A332F.

Expect it to be announced before spring, with a nice set of orders to accompany it, since in the mean time another customer has verbally committed to the A332F....
 
WINGS
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 6):

For those who read these forums closely and are able to separate loads of rumours by wannabe's from the occasional small hint by insiders, indeed it has already.

The launch order for 30 A332F at Farnborough which was recalled minutes after is was released when SQ decided to sign for 19 brand new A333s gave away Airbus' imminent intention to launch the freighter version of the A330 and since then both PanAm_DC10 and I have repeatedly hinted at this revised time schedule which Didier now publicly refers to as well in this interview.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for the industrial launch of the A332F.

Expect it to be announced before spring, with a nice set of orders to accompany it, since in the mean time another customer has verbally committed to the A332F....

Thank you SabenaPilot. PanAm_DC10 and your self have previously commented on these facts. Unfortunately not all are willing to believe the information.

On another note. Around a month ago Flight International published an article about Airbus re-thinking the possibility of keeping open the A300 line. Would you happen to know any information about this matter?

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 6):
Expect it to be announced before spring, with a nice set of orders to accompany it, since in the mean time another customer has verbally committed to the A332F....

Thanks for that juicy snippet - I wonder who it is....
 
2wingtips
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:06 pm

I've never bought the Sabenapilot version of why the 330F launch was pulled at Farnborough. It is a very expensive freighter conversion with significant undercarriage mods being required. I also believe it doesn't appeal greatly to a lot of the freight carriers. We'll wait and see on this one. It will be launched but how successful it will be is the query I have.
If the 330F was ready for Farnborough launch and had so many pending orders, it would have been launched IMO.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 9):
I've never bought the Sabenapilot version of why the 330F launch was pulled at Farnborough. It is a very expensive freighter conversion with significant undercarriage mods being required. I also believe it doesn't appeal greatly to a lot of the freight carriers. We'll wait and see on this one. It will be launched but how successful it will be is the query I have.
If the 330F was ready for Farnborough launch and had so many pending orders, it would have been launched IMO.

Could be true could not be but we all saw a press release for 30 which was then rapidly pulled - the plane must of been pretty good if someone (AerCap) was looking to buy 30 copies
 
Ivo
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:33 am

Flight International issue 5-11 dec page 13:

Guggenheim builds freigther portfolio with 4 777Fs.

The last paragraph:

Guggenheim is still in discussions with Airbus about a deal for the proposed
A330-200F, but the finalising of any order is conditional on a launch
decision for the new aircraft, which has a projected paylload of 64t.

Ivo
 
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Stitch
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 3):
The A320 and A321 are the first / current conversion candidates.

Is the A321 a viable candidate for freighter conversion? Her payload and range as a passenger plane strike me as making her...undesirable...as a freighter.

The A320, on the other hand, would probably make a great freighter and would give the 73GC and 737F conversion programs some serious competition.
 
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N328KF
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Is the A321 a viable candidate for freighter conversion? Her payload and range as a passenger plane strike me as making her...undesirable...as a freighter.

The A320, on the other hand, would probably make a great freighter and would give the 73GC and 737F conversion programs some serious competition.

The A319 is the direct counterpart to the 737-700, of which there is the 737-700C variant. IMHO that makes it the best candidate since it has similar performance characteristics. Go any smaller and you're in the A318/737-600 wasteland.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
scouseflyer
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 13):
The A319 is the direct counterpart to the 737-700, of which there is the 737-700C variant. IMHO that makes it the best candidate since it has similar performance characteristics. Go any smaller and you're in the A318/737-600 wasteland.

But an A318 frieghter would look really cool!
 
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Stitch
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 13):
The A319 is the direct counterpart to the 737-700, of which there is the 737-700C variant. IMHO that makes it the best candidate since it has similar performance characteristics.

Quite true. However, an A320F's extra capacity might allow it to carve out it's own niche - or marginalize the 73GC's capabilities even more, forcing Boeing to respond with a 738C based on the BBJII (as the 73GC is based on the BBJI).
 
jdevora
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 9):
I've never bought the Sabenapilot version of why the 330F launch was pulled at Farnborough

If the retired press release was just a marketing campaign for get some attention over the 330F I think that they got it right  Wink
Airbus coy on A330-200 Freighter.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 9):
It is a very expensive freighter conversion with significant undercarriage mods being required.

My understanding is that most of those changes are already implemented in the tanker version that they are doing for the UK and Australian armies.

Cheers
JD
 
A342
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:01 am

You won't see an A318F for the same reason you won't see 735s being converted: The fuselage ahead of the engine is too short to install a normal SCD and/or the engine will be in the way for loading the cargo.
And I'm still sceptical about the A319 for this reason, but we shall see.

Also, theoretically, many BAe-146-300s are available to be converted, and they are better suited to feeder missions than a 737 or A318. Now Pemco just needs to re-start the conversion program, or sell the STC. There is a proven need for additional conversions, isn't it ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
jonathan-l
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Her payload and range as a passenger plane strike me as making her...undesirable...as a freighter.

The A321 will haul around 27 tonnes over ~1900nm.
It's decent range for a small aircraft.
Most operations for narrowbodies (barring charter operations) don't require as much range.
For example, I would assume FDX will give 400-700nm to its future 757.
 
trex8
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:15 am

anyone know if they will offer all 3 present engine types on present A330s or will they even be going for new generation engines??
 
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Stitch
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 19):
Anyone know if they will offer all 3 present engine types on present A330s or will they even be going for new generation engines?

I imagine they'll start by offering the most powerful variants of the current A333 engines (since a freighter will be at max payload more often), but GE is on record saying they're still willing to build the GEnx1A-xx if Airbus wishes it.

Not sure if the Trent XWB will fit under the A333...
 
andrewuber
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:33 am

Wow - prices for new aircraft are really coming down too! I would expect Airbus to annihilate Boeing's order book with these prices:

In its latest fleet forecast, Airbus predicts the delivery of 22,700 new passenger and freighter aircraft between 2006 and 2025, representing a market value of $2.6 billion.

$2.6 billion divided by 22,700 frames is $114,537.44 per aircraft. I would guess that airlines who place large orders might even get a discount off of that price, if historical figures are true.

OR the analyst who forecast these figures might be the same guy who forecast the delivery dates for the A380 program???

With prices that low, an A320 would appeal more to me than the Cessna 172 I have been looking at (and it would cost me less to acquire) - but I'm sure operating costs might be a bit higher.

Drew

[Edited 2007-01-04 01:35:37]
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
jonathan-l
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 21):
$2.6 billion divided by 22,700 frames is $114,537.44 per aircraft

Even Chapter 11 airlines could renovate their fleets!

But it's $2.6 trillion, as stated in the original press release.
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 22):
But it's $2.6 trillion, as stated in the original press release.

Or 2.6 billion USD if you use the European "Billion", which equates to "Trillion" in the US.
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keesje
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:31 pm

What I've understood the launch of the A332F has been delayed because satisfying demand for passenger A330s had priority and you can only sell a slot once. Same as A320 series.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Some of the older A320s are ripe for conversion. But the situation is "so tight on the passenger side, its hard to justify the launch of the A320 freighter," he says.

However there is a large group also that believes the freighter market is just as profitable as the passenger market..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
jonathan-l
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RE: News On The A330-200F

Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 24):
However there is a large group also that believes the freighter market is just as profitable as the passenger market..

Not only that, but the cargo market is expanding at a higher growth rate than the pax market (~6 vs 5%). So pax aircraft belly hold will be outgrown and there is and will be a need for dedicated freighters.

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