ualcsr
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Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:17 am

Just heard from a friend that UA is coming down to two mainline flights to ORD, two express flights to IAD and eliminating DEN service, all from MIA. I checked the website and mainline flights to all 3 destinations are still loaded through at least August (latest I checked). Any news out there? Thx!
 
N174UA
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:20 am

I'm not surprised by this, if it turns out to be true. AA has been killing them for years at MIA. With no int'l flights to feed, no reason for a lot of extra mainline flights if they're not profitable. Besides, doesn't Ted operate flights into FLL?
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 1):
I'm not surprised by this, if it turns out to be true. AA has been killing them for years at MIA. With no int'l flights to feed, no reason for a lot of extra mainline flights if they're not profitable. Besides, doesn't Ted operate flights into FLL?

Ted also runs the MIA station, there are no mainline flights there anymore. Not surprised by UA's move, either.
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daron4000
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:30 am

I doubt this only because of the new terminal for Star being built. There is some contractual clause demanding a certain amount of flights per day and since UA and US are the only real airlines who can do that, I doubt UA will downsize any more. Plus, there was a "rumor" here a couple months ago that UA would INCREASE MIA, rather than decrease it.
 
UALFAson
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:44 am

I would be surprised by this as well. The gossip I've heard is that MIA is doing better since converting to Ted. Rumor is that UA mainline may start SFO and possibly LAX nonstops later this year.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:58 am

That would really surprise me. Not serving Miami from such a large hub? I doubt it. Plus Ted has performed very, very well at MIA.
a.
 
usairways85
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:00 am

Man the new Star terminal at MIA is going to be pretty empty
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 3):
I doubt this only because of the new terminal for Star being built.

Why would *A be building a terminal at MIA? Something about that just doens't sound right. It's not a hub for any *A member and it's a huge mega hub for AA. Whomever thought that was a brilliant idea should really think again. But then again, I'm just looking at it from the inside out.
Aiming High and going far..
 
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Coal
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7):
Why would *A be building a terminal at MIA? Something about that just doens't sound right. It's not a hub for any *A member and it's a huge mega hub for AA. Whomever thought that was a brilliant idea should really think again. But then again, I'm just looking at it from the inside out.

Erm... well it's already been built. UA used to have a relatively big presence at MIA, so the hub was designed to be occupied by them, US, LH, and RG.

Cheers,
Coal
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tommy777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Thread starter):
Just heard from a friend that UA is coming down to two mainline flights to ORD, two express flights to IAD and eliminating DEN service, all from MIA. I checked the website and mainline flights to all 3 destinations are still loaded through at least August (latest I checked). Any news out there? Thx!

There has been only 2 TED flights ORD-MIA-ORD daily for a while.

I have heard the total opposite, though. I have heard that UA plans to expand in the new terminal.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 6):
Man the new Star terminal at MIA is going to be pretty empty

Yeah,with RG leaving the Star Alliance ,that doesn't help things....
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
ualcsr
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:29 am

More updates from my UA grapevine:

Sorry for the mainline; I meant Ted. First, I'm one of many furloughed UA/MIA CSRs so anytime a rumor starts, it gets around our group pretty quickly. Again, only rumor so far.

The latest I heard was that DEN stays TED while ORD and IAD go United Express. This would only be a decrease in capacity and would leave the door open for the rumored mainline expansion to LAX and SFO once the South terminal opens. More updates as they become available.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 11):
The latest I heard was that DEN stays TED while ORD and IAD go United Express. This would only be a decrease in capacity and would leave the door open for the rumored mainline expansion to LAX and SFO once the South terminal opens.

UA should simply bite the bullet and either buy new planes or exercise its options on the A319s/20s. That way they wouldn't have to make choices between turning good performing routes over to Express contractors in favor of expanding with mainline to other cities. At some point...like today....they'll need more mainline capacity. Flying Express from hubs to cities like Peoria and Roanoke may be one thing, but Express from ORD and IAD to a large tourist/business city like Miami is another.
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jfk777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:07 am

UA has been downsizing in Miami for too many years. If they downsize any more, its called closing down. First Latin America got down sized from 777 to 767 and then only to EZE & GRU. UA should just serve South Florida through FLL.
 
tommy777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
UA has been downsizing in Miami for too many years. If they downsize any more, its called closing down. First Latin America got down sized from 777 to 767 and then only to EZE & GRU. UA should just serve South Florida through FLL.

Yeah, the whopping 2X ORD-FLL, 1X IAD/DEN/FLL makes UAs presence at FLL ENORMOUS :P

OT, Rant start about Miami and UA at MIA:

I loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end
 
hiflyer
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 11):
The latest I heard was that DEN stays TED while ORD and IAD go United Express

That apparently is the actual case eff late April with 70 seaters on the Express.

One reason suggested is MIA Airport cost structure is far out of line and prohibitively expensive on a per pax basis. As an example you do not see Jet Blue, Frontier, or Southwest on that field even though there is quite a bit of empty gate space currently.

Secondly MIA airport as a whole poor ratings among travelers and it's perceived 3rd world status probably plays a role in this.

Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

Lastly, with RG out of Star a couple weeks ago it only leaves LH and UA...not a whole lot of reason for a new concourse where rents will increase yet again.

re the suggestion of west coast nonstops out of MIA...I don't see that happening with this downsizing.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:24 pm

AA is the huge operation at MIA. DL even pulled their SLC-MIA flight (on a 738) not long ago and only have flights to ATL, CVG, JFK and LGA from there if I recall correctly. They have 9 flights daily to ATL on 738s and 752s including one non-ER 763. To LGA they offer 2 MD-88s per day. To JFK they offer 1 MD-88, and one OH CRJ flight to CVG along with an MD-88. Pretty slim pickings compared to what AA offers.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

Hence the reason for growth at FLL and PBI. If FLL could get a second runway in they could put a dent in the competition against MIA since I think there would be a rush to put a hub there. US tried and it didn't work, but FLL is a big airport with B6, F9 and of course WN.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
ualcsr
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:47 pm

I spoke to someone who was at the briefing at UA/MIA when the announcement was made. The change of equipment for IAD/ORD was confirmed.



Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Secondly MIA airport as a whole poor ratings among travelers and it's perceived 3rd world status probably plays a role in this.

While I agree that MIA leaves lots, lots, lots to be desired, it has improved a bit in the past few years with better concessions and the new gates at A and D; hopefully the opening of the South Terminal will improve the airport rating.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

I respectfully disagree. The people who are leaving Florida, not just South Florida, to places like Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina, tend to be middle income individuals who are having difficulties with taxes and especially, our ridiculous insurance, and who do not therefore, have disposable income to travel. On the other hand, the City of Miami tax base, for example, has doubled in the past few years due to higher tax rates paid by people with bigger pockets who tend to travel. Just look at AA and their consistently profitable and growing MIA hub.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
One reason suggested is MIA Airport cost structure is far out of line and prohibitively expensive on a per pax basis. As an example you do not see Jet Blue, Frontier, or Southwest on that field even though there is quite a bit of empty gate space currently.

Agree. MIA's cost structure is extremely expensive and given that the remaining UA/MIA employees have all maxed out pay-wise, it's a costly station for UA to run. I've been out of UA for 3 years but I do remember that UAX was not handled by UA employees. Would it be feasible that part of UA's strategy is to furlough most of the current employees, leaving a minimal staff to handle 2 TED flights. As the uAX flights would be handled by UAX (non-UA) employees hired at $8 or $9 per hour, it would be a sizeable saving for UA. Just thinkin.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 16):
only have flights to ATL, CVG, JFK and LGA

As well as MCO and TLH. I wouldn't be shocked to see SLC back. MIA/BDL were dropped because of lack of 738s more than anything. They didn't perform horribly.
a.
 
daron4000
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:51 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 12):
UA should simply bite the bullet and either buy new planes or exercise its options on the A319s/20s. That way they wouldn't have to make choices between turning good performing routes over to Express contractors in favor of expanding with mainline to other cities. At some point...like today....they'll need more mainline capacity. Flying Express from hubs to cities like Peoria and Roanoke may be one thing, but Express from ORD and IAD to a large tourist/business city like Miami is another.

Well AA does fly only Eagle ORD-IAD, which is a UA dominated route so you could say the same thing. Granted, they fly the M80's to DCA and at a higher frequency than Ted goes to FLL but still.

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 14):
loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end

I hate MIA for this same reason. Not trying to be racist or anything and I speak Spanish even though I'm American but at this airport, it totally seems like Hispanics are favored over Americans. This may not actually be true but it is my perception with security agents, CSR's, and many others. Also, MIA is disgusting and old, has a horrible customs facility and is just overall a bad, corrupt airport.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
As well as MCO and TLH. I wouldn't be shocked to see SLC back. MIA/BDL were dropped because of lack of 738s more than anything. They didn't perform horribly.

DL's lack of mainline a/c will hold them back from many potentially good routes for the next several months. Like UA, they have been wise to dump their older more inefficient a/c in BK. FLL is a fairly significant focus operation for DL and I'd venture they will likely upgrade FLL-SLC to a 752 before they try going into MIA from SLC again. Perhaps when they get the 737-700s mentioned they "might" bring SLC-MIA back.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 19):
MIA is disgusting and old,

Old? That is pretty difficult to be considering about half the airport has been built in the past ten years.

People can hate MIA all they want, it has major flaws, but the worse of MIA is no worse than the worst parts of LaGuardia, O'Hare, Logan, or JFK. And it also has three, and soon four, brand-new concourses that are on par, if not better, than any other recently built airport projects in the US.

Also, I agree the switch to RJs to IAD/ORD makes sense given the cost issue. Their CRJ-700s have first class, and they can focus on the business travelers, while still offering 320s to Denver. I would not be surprised if this happens, though I would have been if Denver service ended.
a.
 
An-225
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:17 pm

I checked the SkyNet, and the flights to MIA are still shown as Ted from all 3 hubs. Will check again tomorrow. It would be horribly sad if Miami downsizes like that...

Alex.
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tu154
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 14):
I loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end

Why do you think we, Americans, left Miami years ago?? Seriously, the Miami base of flight attendants was the same way. If you didnt speak spanish you were out of most conversations all the way to South America!!
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
tu154
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 14):
I loved that the Easy Check in machine first page was in Spanish 50% of the time at the airport. I also loved that the GA came on board after boarding and shook hands with his two Hispanic buddies in 10D and 11C, both emergency exit row seats reserved for Premier Exec / 1Ks, I was in 11D and I could clearly see the Gentleman in 11Cs BP, no status whatsoever...The GA wondered if they were happy with the seats he fixed for them in Spanish. They were really satisfied ant thanked the GA for moving them up to these E+ seats. Not very discreet and many pax noticing it and commenting on it, especially the passengers who actually paid for E+... The episode had a real South American feeling to it.. Rant end

Why do you think we, Americans, left Miami years ago?? Seriously, the Miami base of flight attendants was the same way. If you didnt speak spanish you were out of most conversations all the way to South America!!

Most f/a commuters are also leaving ORD and IAD for JFK because they can commute on JetBlue easier than on UA to South Florida.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
People can hate MIA all they want, it has major flaws, but the worse of MIA is no worse than the worst parts of LaGuardia, O'Hare, Logan, or JFK. And it also has three, and soon four, brand-new concourses that are on par, if not better, than any other recently built airport projects in the US.

Many of us at SLC (talk about an old airport being "band-aided" up!) would gladly take the concourses and terminals at MIA, but of course without the hefty price tag.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
ualcsr
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 24):
Why do you think we, Americans, left Miami years ago??

While my parents were born in Cuba, I was born at Doctors Hospital in Coral Gables, Florida 42 years ago and with the exception of one year in Paris, have lived in the US all my life and proudly carry a US passport. What makes me any less American than you or anyone else born on US soil? The fact of the matter is that those of you who left may be able to run, but you can't hide from the largest growing minority in this country. Funny how western European immigration somehow became American, but we somehow are not. Get used to the new reality.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
People can hate MIA all they want, it has major flaws, but the worse of MIA is no worse than the worst parts of LaGuardia, O'Hare, Logan, or JFK. And it also has three, and soon four, brand-new concourses that are on par, if not better, than any other recently built airport projects in the US.

You Sir (or Madam) are on my respected user list for a reason. Not only do you always give us concise information, but your posts are always on point. MIA has it flaws, no doubt, but it's no worse than parts of other US airports---LAX, JFK, IAD and LGA come to mind. The C gates hopefully will come down soon and the South Terminal looks great. And, for those of us who like that kind of stuff, it feels like a truly international airport with a buzz unlike many other airports in the US.
 
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Coal
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 24):

Why do you think we, Americans, left Miami years ago?? Seriously, the Miami base of flight attendants was the same way. If you didnt speak spanish you were out of most conversations all the way to South America!!

I understand what you mean and what the Norwegian poster means. I personally cannot stand the AA crews based out of BOG. I truly despise them. I've especially noticed them giving out seats to D3 standbys and leaving some D2s behind. But, AA pays them much, much less than American F/A's, so tit for tat.

Cheers,
Coal
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isitsafenow
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:29 am

Maybe they are starting additional one-way service to Marana.
That might explain any cutbacks.
safe  devil 
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PRAirbus
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:56 am

MIA newest terminal "J" was relevant for Star Alliance some years ago, after the post 9-11 downsizing and the bankruptcies most contractual obligations carriers had were dissolved during Chapter 11. I really doubt UAL has any obligation w/MIA airport. According to AA MIA management and the rumor mill, all airlines occupying "E" satellite will move to "J" terminal once it is ready. AA will return to "E" satellite once (AV/IB/LB, etc vacate "E"). AA will return to "E" satellite since "A" terminal will be closed and moth-balled in order to finish the North Terminal (A thru D concourses) project. In my opinion, "J" terminal (South Terminal) will not be exclusively for Star Alliance carriers. This is all supposed to take place once "J" (South Terminal) is ready for operation Summer 2007.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 2):
Ted also runs the MIA station, there are no mainline flights there anymore.

Apparently there is no business traffic in MIA, or PHX for that matter Silly. UA has all but given up on Florida.

Quoting Ualcsr (Thread starter):
Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Isn't that like splitting atoms?  Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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United787
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
UA should just serve South Florida through FLL.

I totally agree. I understand that UA is limited at FLL now, but what if they turned FLL into what AA does at MIA and use it as the feeder for Latin America?
 
tu154
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:35 am

[

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 26):
While my parents were born in Cuba, I was born at Doctors Hospital in Coral Gables, Florida 42 years ago and with the exception of one year in Paris, have lived in the US all my life and proudly carry a US passport. What makes me any less American than you or anyone else born on US soil? The fact of the matter is that those of you who left may be able to run, but you can't hide from the largest growing minority in this country. Funny how western European immigration somehow became American, but we somehow are not. Get used to the new reality.

I think European immigrants became "American" because when they came here they wanted to blend in and assimilate. To embrace their new homeland, while passing on their culture to generations to come and adding some new foods and customs to American culture. They did not come here and demand services or media in their own language. They did not demand government forms/tests in their own language. My grandparents did not come here and say, hey...speak to me in my language! They learned English and assimilated while passing the culture of Portugal down to my generation as have other European and Asian immigrants.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 32):
They did not come here and demand services or media in their own language. They did not demand government forms/tests in their own language. My grandparents did not come here and say, hey...speak to me in my language! They learned English and assimilated while passing the culture of Portugal down to my generation as have other European and Asian immigrants.

It is pretty pathetic you think immigrants "demand" those things because, for the most part, they didn't. There were just so many Spanish speaking immigrants, that the American culture began to embrace their language must stronger and made it possible in some cities - mainly Miami and Texas border towns - to not learn English.

Though the often ignored fact remains that as much as people love to complain and diss, at least when it comes to South American and Cuban immigrants in Miami, at least 90% can speak near fluent English just fine. Mexican and Central American immigrants in Texas, California, and the Southwest are the ones that have the harder grasp of English.
a.
 
tommy777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 26):
While my parents were born in Cuba, I was born at Doctors Hospital in Coral Gables, Florida 42 years ago and with the exception of one year in Paris, have lived in the US all my life and proudly carry a US passport. What makes me any less American than you or anyone else born on US soil? The fact of the matter is that those of you who left may be able to run, but you can't hide from the largest growing minority in this country. Funny how western European immigration somehow became American, but we somehow are not. Get used to the new reality.

Very OT, but I feel like replying to this post:
No one says that anyone is worth any less than any other Americans. I'm an immigrant, too, just moved to Chicago from Norway. But I respect the society I have joined by speaking English. My goal as a taxpayer here in the US is to build this country with ALL other Americans and not try to make a Norwegian city where everyone speaks Norwegian and trying to make the city look like Oslo and give favor only to Norwegians.
What people are reacting to is the refusal to learn/speak English and the culture brought to this country. If you don't want to adapt to society, you are not an asset to this country at all IMO. Minorities who try to adapt, will have a better chance to have a career and not end up at minimum wage, like most people in the fastest growing minority do.

I know exactly what Tu154 is talking about. I frequently (at least once a month) travel for business to TPA/MCO and sometimes, and I love it!

But Miami is a different world:
My wife and I went down to Florida for a little break before Christmas on the 13th. We flew in to PBI and drove down to the Keys and had a lovely stay at the Westin in Key West. We wanted to stay in Miami one night as our flight left for Chicago in the morning the next day. I was looking forward to staying in Miami Beach for the night, my first visit there in over 12 years. After checking in to the hotel, we took a stroll on the beach. What a shock, boy has this city changed! Homeless people and garbage everywhere on the beach walk, graffiti on many buildings. It looked exactly like a city in a third world country except a couple of new high rises. The guy who runs Miami is not doing a bang up job.....

And now to the airport part:
Returning the rent a car, was done at MIA with a person who barely spoke English. I had to brush off my Spanish to be able to explain that the crack in the windshield was there when I picked up the car, there was a note in English on the contract that she couldn't understand. So the manager had to come to sort this out. At UA check in, I was met by the Easy Check in machine that didn't want to switch to English. An extremely rude UA guy jumped over the scale and made a big stink about checking us in. Since I'm 1K, I asked the guy to put priority tags on our suit cases, I have never seen such attitude.
At the security check point, it was like entering the security check point at SDQ. There was a table on the left before the security check point where 4 young ladies were sitting having their coffee and a very loud conversation. When one of the "tsa" guys came over to ask for something, he got yelled at before 2 of the girls stood up and started to actually work.

Then it was this scene on the plane where the GA obviously knew someone. I don't understand why he didn't just give them their BP and left it at that. No, he had to come on the plane and shake their hand to make sure they were comfortable.

So I gotta tell you, MIA airport is like SDQ. Same old colors, same attitude towards tourist/non Hispanic, same "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" mentality.

It makes me stay away from MIA and Miami when I visit Florida the next time.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
People can hate MIA all they want, it has major flaws, but the worse of MIA is no worse than the worst parts of LaGuardia, O'Hare, Logan, or JFK. And it also has three, and soon four, brand-new concourses that are on par, if not better, than any other recently built airport projects in the US.

The worst parts of the airports up north, is the winter, something that MIA doesn't have to deal with.

The current MIA airport looks like a dump, that 70s look with the flower carpets and the awful green and purple paint looks exactly like any airport in South America. After security at the UA concourse, there's absolutely nothing to eat (except BK and a lousy little coffee stand with 2 day old baked stuff and they don't toast the bagels for you, they don't have a toaster. Imagine what a 2 day old Bagel tastes like).

In Florida you can find much better airports, TPA is my personal favourite. Open areas, large windows, Starbucks and good food in the gate area and free wireless Internet.
 
tommy777
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
Though the often ignored fact remains that as much as people love to complain and diss, at least when it comes to South American and Cuban immigrants in Miami, at least 90% can speak near fluent English just fine.

I find this VERY hard to believe
 
MAH4546
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 35):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
Though the often ignored fact remains that as much as people love to complain and diss, at least when it comes to South American and Cuban immigrants in Miami, at least 90% can speak near fluent English just fine.

I find this VERY hard to believe

That's fine, I don't care. I live in Miami. I experience it everday. I rarely will ever run into somebody who doesn't speak English. There is a difference between somebody who perfers to speak Spanish (and in some cases are so arrogant they won't speak English, even though they know it) and somebody who doesn't speak English.
a.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 31):
I understand that UA is limited at FLL now, but what if they turned FLL into what AA does at MIA and use it as the feeder for Latin America?

It would be called USAirways and it would be quickly scaled back Silly. I've always thought that a Latin American hub at FLL would work *IF* the facilities were there to back it up, but right now they are not anywhere close. They only use one out of three runways, and the international arrival facillities are common use, separate from any other terminal, and small.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MD13
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:40 am

Tommy777, My family and I used to go very often to Miami when I didn't speak english and I had the opposite experience that you had. Most of the time we went to places and you could tell that the people who worked there spoke Spanish or at least knew a bit of it and they wouldn't help you when they realized you didn't speak english. Other experience I had was at a pizza place where the girl was Latin descendant and she at least tried to talk to me in what I call "the original Spanglish" Hehe. So I think you were just unlucky with the whole thing in the car rental because most of Latins in Miami speak some sort of english. I do agree with what you say about the conditions in which Miami is right now (it's getting like any big city in Latin America, beautiful and brand new buildings with graffiti and homeless people next to them).

Back to topic, I'm amazed at how UA's operation in Miami has downsized. I remember taking UA's flight a couple of times from CCS to MIA and back. Both flights were full and even more expensive that AA. The nice thing was that they had pre-check in at the Eurobuilding Hotel in Caracas the day before your flight.

And about that terminal, Why don't they give it to Skyteam and Star moves to H (or is it G) where Delta is? That would be the best usage of the brand new facility in my opinion. But I guess it isn't that easy  profile 

[Edited 2007-01-04 21:14:24]
 
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jetpixx
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 32):
I think European immigrants became "American" because when they came here they wanted to blend in and assimilate. To embrace their new homeland, while passing on their culture to generations to come and adding some new foods and customs to American culture. They did not come here and demand services or media in their own language. They did not demand government forms/tests in their own language. My grandparents did not come here and say, hey...speak to me in my language! They learned English and assimilated while passing the culture of Portugal down to my generation as have other European and Asian immigrants.

You, my friend, are in my RU list. This is exactly the feelings I had when reading the initial post. "Get used to the new reality", he said. That's bunk. My grandparents spoke Czech and Polish, but learned English (one of the hardest languages to learn, by the way) and contributed positively to society in their new country. They weren't rabblerousers and troublemakers who were drains on the society. Now, are all hispanic immigrants that way? Definitely not. I know some of the nicest people in the world who are from Colombia, Peru, Uruguay, Brazil, Honduras, etc. You live in South Florida long enough, you'll meet someone from every Central and South American country. Some come here and want to be "American" and others come here and still want to be whatever nationality they are, but be catered to and take advantage of America. That's just not right.
 
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United787
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:15 am

Way to Hijack the thread...

Can we get this back to Topic...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36):
That's fine, I don't care. I live in Miami.

I hear you my friend. I live in Los Angeles, a city that of millions that is half Latino. I hear more Spanish then English in LA, and to be frank: I DONT CARE. Most of them do speak English, but speak Spanish the majority of the time because thats more comfortable. We live in cities where Spanish is spoken just as widely as English (if not more), but why does it have to be a bad thing? Its part of what makes the cities we love the way they are.

Now for the topic. MIA (like NYC) is weak with Star Alliance and its members. AA and One World dominate. I would image that most people in South Florida dont fly UA much anyway. Not a huge loss if its true, because MIA still has extensive service on AA and is King of Latin America (when it comes to airports).
It is what it is...
 
B752OS
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
Now for the topic. MIA (like NYC) is weak with Star Alliance and its members. SA)">AA and One World dominate. I would image that most people in South Florida dont fly SA)">UA much anyway. Not a huge loss if its true, because MIA still has extensive service on SA)">AA and is King of Latin America (when it comes to airports).

I don't really think NYC is weak with Star Carriers. When you consider that LGA has a decent sized US operation along with JFK and EWR having service from LH, OS, NH, LX, OZ, AC, LO, TG, VG, US, SA)">UA, TP, SQ, SK and SA. That is pretty much every member of the alliance so to say that NYC, like MIA, is weak would be a crazy statement.
 
ScottB
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 17):
Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
Third the whole main higher median income group in South Florida has been reported widely as moving north and more north ever since 1992 and Hurricane Andrew sent the first flood of folks north.

I respectfully disagree. The people who are leaving Florida, not just South Florida, to places like Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina, tend to be middle income individuals who are having difficulties with taxes and especially, our ridiculous insurance, and who do not therefore, have disposable income to travel. On the other hand, the City of Miami tax base, for example, has doubled in the past few years due to higher tax rates paid by people with bigger pockets who tend to travel. Just look at AA and their consistently profitable and growing MIA hub.

I suspect the point is not that people are leaving Florida, but rather that population is shifting north within South Florida. Both Broward and Palm Beach counties have grown significantly more rapidly than Miami-Dade County has in the period from 1990 to 2005. In 2000, both Broward and Palm Beach Counties also boasted median household incomes that were 15% (Broward) to 25% (Palm Beach) higher than Miami-Dade's. It is quite telling that MIA served 34 million passengers in 1998 and yet barely reached 31 million in 2005. Even international passenger counts were down between 1998 and 2005.

And I would argue that the growing City of Miami tax base is more due to the rampant property speculation that's been a feature of the South Florida real estate market in the past several years.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
One reason suggested is MIA Airport cost structure is far out of line and prohibitively expensive on a per pax basis. As an example you do not see Jet Blue, Frontier, or Southwest on that field even though there is quite a bit of empty gate space currently.

Secondly MIA airport as a whole poor ratings among travelers and it's perceived 3rd world status probably plays a role in this.

The combination of these factors seems important to me -- for some of the highest costs in the country, airlines and their passengers are treated to largely dilapidated facilities. The Concourse E FIS is dirty and gloomy, while the lengthy maze of tunnels between the AA Concourses is hardly passenger-friendly. Having AA use the E Satellite again will worsen the passenger experience for customers making southbound connections at MIA.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 42):
I don't really think NYC is weak with Star Carriers. When you consider that LGA has a decent sized US operation along with JFK and EWR having service from LH, OS, NH, LX, OZ, AC, LO, TG, VG, US, SA)">UA, TP, SQ, SK and SA. That is pretty much every member of the alliance so to say that NYC, like MIA, is weak would be a crazy statement.

Comparatively it is. I guess I was also thinking on a domestic level and total number of flights. NYC seems to be the strongest with Skyteam. I do admit that NYC is much stronger with Star then MIA.
It is what it is...
 
USPIT10L
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
That would really surprise me. Not serving Miami from such a large hub? I doubt it. Plus Ted has performed very, very well at MIA.

Knowing how high the landing fees are at MIA, I'm very surprised by this. I thought MIA had far more business traffic than FLL did.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
UA has been downsizing in Miami for too many years. If they downsize any more, its called closing down. First Latin America got down sized from 777 to 767 and then only to EZE & GRU. UA should just serve South Florida through FLL.

But FLL is primarily a leisure market, as a major player, UA needs to have at least a token presence at MIA, granted it will probably never be what it used to be, but still, a mainline presence needs to be there, IMHO.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
daron4000
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:17 am

So instead of this forum turning into an MIA bash, does anyone have any updates for UA's presence in MIA?
 
ualcsr
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:20 am

I didn't in any manner mean to open a can of worms with respect to immigration in the US but at times, it's truly amazing that a nation built on immigration can still discriminate. No, no, no......I'm not accusing anyone here of discrimination, but for example, I've been told by a total stranger, on the street, not to speak Spanish (when I'm perfectly within my right to do so among my peers and family). This makes me feel, at times, like a second class citizen in my own country and for all the talk of diversity, we still have a long, long way to go. Tommy777 and TU154....while I disagree with your posts, I respect your opinion. Now...back to the topic before this gets locked.

I spoke to a friend today who confirmed everything that was previously posted. However, he also said that there were no talks of furloughs and when they asked the HQ representative who had come to make the announcement whether there was a possibility of staff down-sizing, the topic was side-stepped. Once again, there are rumors, pure rumors, of 13 furloughs, but the fact that the topic was not discussed makes me think that there may be a possibility of the purported LAX and SFO flights.
 
tommy767
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:05 am

There are some things I love and hate about MIA. What i love is the observation deck/pool at the airport hotel, but last time I was there was in February 2000 (Do they still have this or did they shut it down after 9/11?) AA's area is pretty nice as they have a newer terminal which is really kept up nicely (I think terminal J) and the rest of there gate areas seem pretty acceptable.

What I hate about MIA are the lines for security and the attitudes of the TSA agents down there. When I was there in May, they treated me like absolute Sh*t! They shoved me from line to line, screamed at me, and completely rushed me out as I was putting my belt back on. Not only that, but the whole process took about 50 minutes. Unacceptable. Also just about every passenger in that line was pissed off that AA cancelled all of there outbound flights the night before because of weather.

The last time I flew UA was in 2000 and that was into MIA from DCA-MIA on a 722. I remember the the gate areas being completely filled up with a bustling atmosphere. Back then, UA flew to ORD with 777s and South America with 767s. I counted up the amount of UA gates as I left the terminal and there were over 20 of them. Over the next few years, they totally downsized there operation, which from that February night, looked like they were doing extremely well at MIA.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
B752OS
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RE: Rumor: UA Further Downsizing In Miami

Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:09 am

In any event, I doubt we will hear any complaining from AA with UA downsizing their operation. Especially when you consider they compete on the ORD route and they have California to themselves.

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