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B737-112
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Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:55 am

This dirt runway has hills like a rollercoaster and the 727 experiences a stickshaker on takeoff. Truly awesome!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghFuWv_gFE
 
CX747
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:22 am

I tip my cap to the 727. I highly doubt we will see 737NGs or A320s operating from dirt runways at any point during their careers.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
PHKLM
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:32 am

Wow, 300 flying hours per month, 3 days without leaving the cockpit, in those conditions...
Like the guy says: "being a pilot there at that time was distinctive, mythical almost".
 
HAJFlyer
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:17 am

Wow ! That is absolutely terriffic.

They sure do not make them like that any more. I do not want to image what shape an A320 would be in after operating in such an environment for even a week.
 
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Ryan h
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:22 am

Interesting video.

The runway did not look that level.
South Australian Spotter www.ryanhothersall.net
 
jetjeanes
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:38 am

I had head about them landing on dirt runways before and seen them with ski,s on the nose gear, i just wonder about fod>> can you imagine what those engines are ingesting... that runway looked almost like it was going down hill
i can see for 80 miles
 
osiris30
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 1):
I highly doubt we will see 737NGs or A320s operating from dirt runways at any point during their careers.

Not with the low slung engines.. They would be toast before you ever reached rotation. Those engines sitting high on the tail are great for two things, water ditching, and crap runways  Smile
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gearup
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 3):
They sure do not make them like that any more. I do not want to image what shape an A320 would be in after operating in such an environment for even a week.

Why? because it's an Airbus? Make no mistake, this kind of operation will cause a problem for any aircraft (except for a DC-3!). The 27 only succeeds because of it's high lift devices, high mounted engines and large wheels and as the video shows, it was right on the margin of total disaster. Completley dumb to use an aircraft designed for paved ICAO runways instead of a more appropriate C130.
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flyf15
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting Gearup (Reply 7):
it was right on the margin of total disaster. Completley dumb to use an aircraft designed for paved ICAO runways instead of a more appropriate C130.

Actually, if you'll notice, they're getting the shaker while on the ground. They got the nose off the ground as soon as possible instead of at Vr... soft field technique. Uses up more runway due to the drag but you're getting the weight off the mains as soon as possible... and you lift off the ground at the slowest possible speed. Once off, slowly lower the nose and accelerate in ground effect until you're at normal climb speed.
 
crownvic
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:50 pm

Flyf15...Are you sure that is the stick shaker? As you know, the 727 normally "ground hugs" just before rotation. This same noise is heard from from free spinning nose gear tires that have left the ground as well, but you could be right.

I actually saw this video about two years ago and it was more complete. This version cut off sooner than the original, but cannot remember where I saw it.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:19 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 9):
I actually saw this video about two years ago and it was more complete. This version cut off sooner than the original, but cannot remember where I saw it.

If you find it, please post it.

MCOflyer
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KPDX
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:32 pm

Can someone embed the vid for me? Cause the vids dont work for me on the site, but when people embed them they do. Yes, I know its weird. Big grin

KPDX  Smile
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qf772
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:07 pm

Quoting CX747 (Reply 1):
I highly doubt we will see 737NGs or A320s operating from dirt runways at any point during their careers.

Make you wonder what they will do when the current crop reach the end of their usefull life?
Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines
 
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mighluss
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 11):
Can someone embed the vid for me?

Of course!





I thought that soft field technique was done only with light STOL planes!! Big grin
Miquel.
 
PHKLM
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 9):
I actually saw this video about two years ago and it was more complete. This version cut off sooner than the original, but cannot remember where I saw it.

It's on YouTube as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BIJqb90S-8
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Gearup (Reply 7):
Why? because it's an Airbus? Make no mistake, this kind of operation will cause a problem for any aircraft (except for a DC-3!).

That is what the 727 was designed for. Originally it was designed for the short hops in Germany, but it was also designed to take off on short runways that were rough
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting B737-112 (Thread starter):
This dirt runway has hills like a rollercoaster and the 727 experiences a stickshaker on takeoff. Truly awesome!

Amazing aircraft, loved the 727. This will be my last post as I have found that this site does not meet my needs as well s I mar have said some things which were uncalled for . Good luck to you all and enjoy your discussions
PanAmoldDC8
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
richm
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 7

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:01 pm

When you guys refer to it a "dirt runway", is that simply all it is? Or is it asphalt covered in dirt?

- Rich
 
KPDX
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Mighluss (Reply 13):

Thank you!  bigthumbsup 

KPDX  Smile
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AS907
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 7

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Richm (Reply 17):
When you guys refer to it a "dirt runway", is that simply all it is? Or is it asphalt covered in dirt?

Dirt Runway. It's amazing at what some airplanes are able to operate on. I always enjoy landing on a gravel strip. I bet it would be even better in a 727.
 
2H4
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:17 am




Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 6):
Quoting CX747 (Reply 1):
I highly doubt we will see 737NGs or A320s operating from dirt runways at any point during their careers.

Not with the low slung engines.. They would be toast before you ever reached rotation.



Quoting Gearup (Reply 7):
Make no mistake, this kind of operation will cause a problem for any aircraft (except for a DC-3!). The 27 only succeeds because of it's high lift devices, high mounted engines and large wheels and as the video shows, it was right on the margin of total disaster. Completley dumb to use an aircraft designed for paved ICAO runways instead of a more appropriate C130.

737-200s have routinely operated into and out of dirt and gravel strips for decades....using their low-slung engines, even:



Nothing "dumb" about operating an aircraft within it's certified limitations...  Wink


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
aero145
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:22 am

As this thread is about the 727 flying to and from gravel strips, how is for example the An-124 or An-225? I saw somewhere that they're made for landing on all runways, that's gravel, dirt and grass... is it something that the aircraft could do or can do?

Nice video btw.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:50 am

Why would it be unusual to get a stick shaker during a short field takeoff like this? Once the nose wheel is off the ground, and until the mains leave the ground, the wings are "stalling". There is not yet enough airspeed to support the airfoil AOA.

BTW, that dirt field is child's play for an MD.  Wink
 
sanjet
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:16 am

They stated that dirt runway was 1800 meters. That's only 3300 feet!!! They must land heavy and take off nearly empty with that kind of runway I would imagine. Specially when you are doing soft field procedure.



By the way First Air regularly operates 737-200's on soft/gravel strips.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Nickerson



You can clearly see the gravel kit installed on the nost gear and the blowers in front of both engine that blows bleed air to blow away dirt/gravel on take/landing.
Will Fly For Food!
 
LXLucien
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:26 am

Thank you guys for those links! Just awesome Big grin
That's Africa as it's best! The Pilot himself says: Only here, you can make something like that.
I guess there are no charts for those Airports Big grin

BTW: The CEO of Transafrik was former Executive member @ Crossair, so he know's how to lead an airline with strange opperations  Smile
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miamiair
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Gearup (Reply 7):
Completley dumb to use an aircraft designed for paved ICAO runways instead of a more appropriate C130.

Dumb statement maybe.

As shown in the pictures above, the 737 can and does operate from unimproved airstrips. I have flown into places with shitter paved runways than the dirt strip in that clip.
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clickhappy
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:47 am

dirt field operations to support the mines in Africa.

Top shelf stuff, thanks for sharing!
 
gearup
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:59 am

737-200s have routinely operated into and out of dirt and gravel strips for decades....using their low-slung engines, even:

Indeed, however the 732 is specially modified for this and the gravel Runways in question are level and hard Packed. The runway in the video is an uneven, unlevel dirt strip. World of a difference.
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2H4
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:08 am




Quoting Gearup (Reply 27):
Indeed, however the 732 is specially modified for this

Granted, but it disproves your previous statement that the 727 "only succeeds because of it's high lift devices, high mounted engines, and large wheels". As pictured above, an aircraft without these things can safely operate out of unimproved strips, as well, modifications notwithstanding.




Quoting Gearup (Reply 27):
the gravel Runways in question are level and hard Packed. The runway in the video is an uneven, unlevel dirt strip. World of a difference.

Are you suggesting that 737-200s equipped with gravel kits are limited to level, hard packed dirt strips?


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
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solnabo
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:10 am

Tu-134 n 154 can t/o from dirt/gravel strip hence the wide gap between landing gears

Micke// 

[Edited 2007-01-05 19:17:17]
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dl021
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:11 am

Really cool video...thanks for finding and posting it. Africa is one of the last places where wildcat outfits can push their equipment to the limits. I'd bet it'd be a cold day in Kinshasa before US or European authorities allowed such flights regularly.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
cubastar
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 16):
This will be my last post

Awwww.....Hey, don't give up. Almost EVERYBODY on here has said something that he or she would probably like to retract. You have a lot of experience and information to share with others. It just seems like everyone wants to get too personal in their posts. Hang in there. It's still a site that you can pick up aviation related info and trivia. You just have to sift through all of the BS that some people insist on posting. Just don't let them punish you by listening to their tirades.
 
noelg
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):

If you find it, please post it.

The original thread is here:
Interesting 727 Video Here (by Qb001 Apr 23 2004 in Civil Aviation)

But it looks like the video is taken down Sad
 
cubastar
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Gearup (Reply 7):
Completley dumb to use an aircraft designed for paved ICAO runways instead of a more appropriate C130.

Just for info, I think that Boeing actually designed a package for the 72 to operate on unimproved fields.
 
jamesbaldwyn
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:00 am

And Easyjet are complaining about Bristols runway!  Big grin
 
cedarjet
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:06 am

You know what, it was one of these 727s that the CIA thought had been stolen by Al Qaeda. Remember, after 9/11? The missing seven-two? And the fear was that cos the aircraft in question had been converted to a tanker, it could be filled with fuel and flown into something? Well, it had to have been one of these planes. This was brought to my attention by TUGMASTER, and it's dead-on. Fascinating to see the operation up close like this. The footage of the seven-two barrelling down the slope on takeoff is amazing.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
chris133
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 1):
I highly doubt we will see 737NGs or A320s operating from dirt runways at any point during their careers.

I guess yo have never seen the cargo 73s operating in Alaska to unpaved gravel and dirt runways.
 
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Siren
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RE: Amazing Video! Short Field Takeoff Onboard A 727

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm

I found a 10 minute version of this if anybody is interested...

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