andz
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Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Easyjet has stopped all flights to Bristol this morning due to safety concerns about the resurfaced runway. CEO Toby Nicholls said on Sky News a few minutes ago that there were concerns about braking on the current surface in wet weather, and that they would review it at noon today.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
sean377
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:50 pm

Just read about that on the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6233487.stm

Out of interest, what's a runway 'safety zone'?
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:48 pm

Apparently this has been going on for a while now - an anonymous pilot reported this to the BBC:

Quoting BBC News:
"I've landed in wet weather, put the brakes on and come to the bit that is being re-surfaced, and just skated across it - we actually speeded up. When it is wet, you have no grip."

They were resurfacing back in September when I took this shot so it's been going on quite a while...


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Photo © Tom Collins

 
tonforty
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 2):
Quoting BBC News:
"I've landed in wet weather, put the brakes on and come to the bit that is being re-surfaced, and just skated across it - we actually speeded up. When it is wet, you have no grip."

Even if there is very little grip, i don't see how they could actually speed up on it when braking! Maybe i'm wrong. Perhaps it feels like you are speeding up due to the braking force being less.
 
pelican
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Tonforty (Reply 3):

Even if there is very little grip, i don't see how they could actually speed up on it when braking! Maybe i'm wrong. Perhaps it feels like you are speeding up due to the braking force being less.

Probably because there was no force to counter act the idle thrust from the engines.

pelican
 
tonforty
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 4):
Probably because there was no force to counter act the idle thrust from the engines.

Possibly, must be very slippy tarmac if that's the case!
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 4):
Probably because there was no force to counter act the idle thrust from the engines.

I would have thought that idle reverse would be used on a wet runway. They certainly use it most of the time.


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speedbirdegjj
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:24 pm

There is a long and interesting thread on pprune about this.

About the problem relates to the lack of friction when wet in the middle of the runway.

GR had an Atr72 overshoot as did BA with an ERJ in the last few weeks.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:33 pm

Bristol is the scareport with the skijump for a runway isn't it - double scary now!
 
FlyingColours
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 8):
Bristol is the scareport with the skijump for a runway isn't it

Yup, you could say that. Still it was always fun to be in the flightdeck for landing there, although I've never been up there when it was wet.

Quoting SpeedbirdEGJJ (Reply 7):
GR had an Atr72 overshoot as did BA with an ERJ in the last few weeks

At BRS?

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
cardiffairtaxi
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting Andz (Thread starter):

BA have also cancelled flights to/from BRS.
My customer was due in from CDG-BRS with BA,but has just been informed they have now got to fly CDG-LHR,and bussed from LHR-BRS.
They are obviously not too happy!
 
britannia191a
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Cardiffairtaxi (Reply 10):
BA have also cancelled flights to/from BRS.
My customer was due in from CDG-BRS with BA,but has just been informed they have now got to fly CDG-LHR,and bussed from LHR-BRS.
They are obviously not too happy!

I would rather be inconvienced then have mine and the rest of the people on board safety put at risk. I congratulate Easyjet on their decision. Not an easy one(hehehe) to make but they must be very concerned if they have decided to cancel their flights in wet conditions. Maybe the other airlines should do the same and force Bristol's hand. No planes, No Income for the airport. Unfortunately like all these things people dont stand up and do something until an incident has occured. Surely they have to now with Easyjet making a point. Good on Easyjet!
 
LHRjc
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Britannia191a (Reply 11):
Not an easy one(hehehe)

 bigthumbsup  Very good  Wink

I have a friend flying BRS - ALC tomorrow and EZY have told him he'll have to wait til the morning to find out if his flight will depart. However the BBC forecast says heavy rain forecast at BRS tomorrow so unless they can fix the runway overnight I can't see things improving.

Fingers crossed tho.

JC
"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:41 pm

You certainly don't want to go off the end of RWY27. The ground falls away rather fast and the huge approach lighting structure would be unavoidable.
 
dhhornet
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:03 am

XL,AMC & TOM now operating from CWL.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:41 am

CO's flights (flights 76 and 77) are still going to BRS.
You can't cure stupid
 
mainMAN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:42 am

This is quite shocking news.......respect to EZY for putting safety before income. Shouldn't it have been the CAA who advised on BRS runway issues, knowing about previous incidents, and not a carrier to make that very hard commercial decision?
 
Cory6188
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am

I'd be curious to know what CO is doing in this situation, as they don't have a ton of leeway for takeoff given the loaded 752 and the relatively short runway.
 
asuflyer
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:48 am

I never knew Bristol was that small! Beats me how a Continental 757 can take off fully loaded to Newark.
 
dhhornet
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 14):
CO's flights (flights 76 and 77) are still going to BRS.

I am surprised as the CO 757 uses every inch of the runway. I wonder what FCA are thinking of doing?

The weathermen are saying rain over the weekend.  raincloud 

I think they will be working on the runway tonight - big time!
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Asuflyer (Reply 18):
I never knew Bristol was that small! Beats me how a Continental 757 can take off fully loaded to Newark.

It always looks a little tight on takeoff from where I've watched...

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 19):
I think they will be working on the runway tonight - big time!

I doubt there's much they can do in such a short space of time, particularly if it involves cutting grooves along a long stretch of runway.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:00 am

I saw a TV programme recently which featured runway resurfacing, it was either Luton or Stansted, on this one of the last processes carried out each night was testing the new surface with a friction meter mounted on a lorry, to see if the new tarmac had enough grip. Surely the new surface either meets the spec or doesn't; there shouldn't be the need for any disagreement between the airport and the airlines, or the need for the airlines to make the decision themselves. The airport should close the runway immediately if the tarmac isn't to spec.
 
dhhornet
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 20):
I doubt there's much they can do in such a short space of time, particularly if it involves cutting grooves along a long stretch of runway.

I bet they will do something if only a little! or...Cancel the rest of the flights today and do it now! wink 

It is not reflecting very well on BRS Airport. The media machine is giving it a lot of cover. I think Mr Skipp and his merry-men are very worried. EZY did a brave move by stopping. God help BRS if something does happen again with another aircraft today, or until the runway is sorted. I think this is why the rest of the operators are doing what EZY have done.
BRS and the CAA say it is safe. But you still can't get away from the incidents over the past week or so. This goes with a large number of reports regarding the braking action from pilots.
 
LHRjc
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:41 am

Looks like U2 are already preparing for tomorrow:

http://easyjet.com/EN/News/bristol_flight_cancellations_5_january.html

"As rain is forecast for Saturday 6 January, easyJet will operate a large proportion of its services in and out of Cardiff International Airport. Passengers will be required to check in at Bristol International Airport as normal and will be transferred across to Cardiff. A list of the flights the airline plans to operate tomorrow will be posted on the website later this afternoon."


JC
"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Tonforty (Reply 3):
Even if there is very little grip, i don't see how they could actually speed up on it when braking! Maybe i'm wrong. Perhaps it feels like you are speeding up due to the braking force being less.

This is probably due to the severe gradient of the runway, as the photograph below shows, there is basically a huge hill in the middle which when landing on 09 can prove tricky for braking.

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Photo © Adrian Thompson



Quoting Asuflyer (Reply 18):
I never knew Bristol was that small! Beats me how a Continental 757 can take off fully loaded to Newark.

It's fairly close to using the entire runway most days:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © P R D Jones



Basically what I have heard and is also written on Pprune, is that the current surface in the middle of the runway is not the final one, this has yet to be laid and because of this there are no groves which allow drainage and thus grip during wet weather. This would be why pilots are reporting aquaplaning occurring. I know EZY had reduced their crosswind landing limit to 20knots, it doesn't appear too windy, so perhaps they have now said no altogether to operating in wet weather.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
picturethis
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:29 am

XL and BA have stopped flights for now aswell.

PictureThis
Make sure they know we're playing the game, but we don't need to play the game because we've already won the game.
 
SQno1
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting PictureThis (Reply 25):
XL and BA have stopped flights for now aswell.

The BA flight from TFS has been diverted to EXT. Ive just seen it land from my bedroom window.

On a seperate note BA is reducing frequency on its BRS-TFS route, cutting the Saturday flight from May to October.

Alex  wave 
 
stirling
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 2):
They were resurfacing back in September when I took this shot so it's been going on quite a while...

What are all those bits on the left side of the pic? Look like junked autos?
Delete this User
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 27):

What are all those bits on the left side of the pic? Look like junked autos?

Longstay carparking.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:58 am

I landed in rain at BRS on a little WOW flight on 11/20 and we had a hard time stopping which I thought was really weird. I chalked it up to pilot choice but now I look back on it I was really surprised how long it took us to slow and stop... makes me wonder.
 
LHRjc
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:06 am

Easyjet have cancelled or transferred to CWL all flights out of BRS tomorrow too:

http://easyjet.com/EN/News/bristol_disruption_6_january.html

"Update on Bristol runway disruption - Saturday 6 January 2007
Following concerns over the reliability of the newly resurfaced runway in wet weather conditions at Bristol International Airport, easyJet regrets to announce there will be some disruption to its Bristol operations over the weekend.

A number of flights on Saturday 6 January will operate in and out or Cardiff International Airport, whilst some services will have to be cancelled. The safety of our passengers, crew and aircraft is the top priority at easyJet and these decisions have been taken following extensive discussions with Bristol International Airport and the UK Civil Aviation Authority. "
"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:16 am

I've flown with U2 landing on 09 in a 73G before in strong crosswinds and it's quite surprising just how hard it is to stop. You add rain and a slippery runway and there's simply no margin for error whatsoever.

BRS suffers more than most other UK airports with weather; I believe it's also the highest airport in the UK. Up on the hill, it's subject to wind and fog quite a lot.
 
LHRjc
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 31):
I believe it's also the highest airport in the UK

Leeds Bradford is higher by 8m !! I know, very picky  Wink

Airport Data: International, Bristol 8km (4miles), Position 51°22´57"N, 002°43´09"W, Elevation 200m (656ft), 24 hours, 1 Passenger Terminal, 18 Aircraft Stands

Airport Data: International, Leeds 13km (8miles), Position 53°52´00"N, 001°39´54"W, Elevation 208m (682ft), Operating hours H24 (22:00 & 06:00 PPO), 1 Passenger Terminal, 1 Cargo Terminal, 17 Aircraft Stands

http://www.azworldairports.com/cfm/f...airports.com/airports/p2720brs.htm

http://www.azworldairports.com/cfm/f...airports.com/airports/p2720lba.htm


JC  Wink
"Our 319's are very reliable. They get fixed very quickly."
 
FlyingColours
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting LHRjc (Reply 32):

Hmm I had BRS down at 652ft ASL on my chrarts, I think, still it is fairly high and very suseptible to fog or sea mist. I used to live about 600 feet away from the runway and I remember one night (2 am) opening my window to let a thunderhead roll through....

Still I remember last year now (I know it's 2007 can you believe it) when my aircraft got stuck in CFU for over 4 hours when the newly resurfaced runway melted and aside from sticking to our landing gear sprayed the undeside of the fuselage with tarmac/asphalt - at least we had a few hours to have a break without passengers though  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
kaneporta1
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:22 pm

That's what happens when you have FZO with planning permission since just after WW2, access to the M4 and M5, not significant weather issues, but the NIMBYs that bought their houses close to it 50 years after the airport was made, can still persuade the council to revoke the permission for commercial use.
You get stuck with BRS, a field that was used in WW2 as the training base for flying through windy/foggy conditions and is in the middle of nowhere. And despite that, NIMBYs and idiot MPs want to stop its expansion.
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
cardiffairtaxi
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:07 pm

Thomas Cook Airlines have just announced they will not fly from BRS either.They are operating their BRS flights from BHX.
 
lapper
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:16 pm

To those talking about the CO 757's using all the runway for takeoff, the concerns being raised by the airlines here are for landing and slowing the aircraft down, IIRC.
 
PITrules
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting Lapper (Reply 36):
To those talking about the CO 757's using all the runway for takeoff, the concerns being raised by the airlines here are for landing and slowing the aircraft down, IIRC.

A high-speed rejected takeoff is more critical than a landing
FLYi
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 34):
That's what happens when you have FZO with planning permission since just after WW2, access to the M4 and M5, not significant weather issues, but the NIMBYs that bought their houses close to it 50 years after the airport was made, can still persuade the council to revoke the permission for commercial use.

Very good point. I drive past FZO all the time and can't believe how unfortunate it is that it's not converted to commercial use. Plenty of land area for a terminal, long wide runway that can handle A380s, AMAZING location etc. Perhaps when Airbus move their Filton ops to somewhere in China they might reconsider the airfield for commercial usage...
 
jasond
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 16):
This is quite shocking news.......

Well shocking in that the airport managers proceeded with the resurfacing work in the first place seemingly oblivious to the problems it seems to be causing. What has the response been from Bristol airport?
 
ConcordeMach2
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 38):
Very good point. I drive past FZO all the time and can't believe how unfortunate it is that it's not converted to commercial use. Plenty of land area for a terminal, long wide runway that can handle A380s, AMAZING location etc. Perhaps when Airbus move their Filton ops to somewhere in China they might reconsider the airfield for commercial usage...

I agree. I think also that Kemble might be a better choice for a Gloucestershire airport than the current one at Staverton. Ok, it may not be as close to Cheltenham and Gloucester or Motorway access but it has a runway capable of handling anything up to a 747, wheras I dont think Staverton can handle even an A318. It has more areas for parking and such and unlike Staverton it is minutes away from a rail station with direct trains to London and Gloucester.
 
dhhornet
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting Lapper (Reply 36):
To those talking about the CO 757's using all the runway for takeoff, the concerns being raised by the airlines here are for landing and slowing the aircraft down, IIRC.

So CO does not land then? On take off it could still abort and slide?

I wonder what all the passengers of XL/AMC/BA/TCX/EZY/EIN/FCA etc. are thinking when they see the CO still operating as they board the buses to CWL/BHX etc?

I bet CO will not operate tomorrow after catching up with local news and info?

So the airport are saying that the runway is safe and the CAA agree with them. So that's fine then? But nearly all the airlines say not? Now am I stupid in thinking how can it be good an airport with no flights. On the news Mr Skipp said BRS had a couple of minor incidents with aircraft! What sliding off is just minor! The man is a joke! He should be out on the runway now with a spade helping make his runway operational for all his paying customers!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 41):
So the airport are saying that the runway is safe and the CAA agree with them. So that's fine then? But nearly all the airlines say not?

More importantly the pilots are not happy and that makes the airlines listen up. I would assume that many will be seeking some form of compensation from BRS Airport for the diversions, can't say I blame them either, as it's clearly not suitable for normal operations in it's current state.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
tjr16698
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:41 am

Hmmm, looking at the Bristol Airport website they appear on the surface to be playing it pretty cool, not even mentioning why all these airlines are not flying from there any more....

http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/

I imagine that below the surface there's a few people not sleeping though.

One question that I would have is I wonder why Easyjet prefers Bristol over Cardiff? I know that BRS has a larger immediate catchment area, but Cardiff isn't exactly in the middle of nowhere, and Bristol is a real pain to drive to, especially from the M4 corridor.

Just a thought, not meaning to effend anyone!
Cheers
Russ
 
trintocan
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:06 am

One wonders if any of the airlines might consider shifting permanently to CWL? The trouble is that BRS has a larger local catchment area that includes Bristol, Gloucester, Swindon, Bath, Somerset and even Devon to some extent (though one would consider EXT to have some influence there). BRS also takes a huge slice of the South Wales market from CWL!

BRS is indeed quite remote. I always wondered why FZO with its more central location and longer runway was not developed into Bristol's main airport - though I see from above that the centrality is the problem! Why buy property around an airport then complain about aircraft noise?

CWL generally has better weather than BRS, is at a lower altitude and has a longer runway (though it can be very windy at times). One wonders what, apart from market generation, must it do to attract more air services to it.

TrinToCan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 44):
(though one would consider EXT to have some influence there).

Well the owners of Bristol Airport are trying to buy Exeter Airport as well, to which there is much debate about their true intentions. I haven't been following local news recently, so I don't know if it's going to be allowed to happen or not.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
 
sean377
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:50 pm

While I'm not advocating that safety should be compromised in any way, if the runway was truly unsafe, then it would be closed, full-stop (no pun intended)!

I can understand Bristols position in insisting it's safe, they are a business, but do you really think they would continue to say so if it wasn't?

Notwithstanding the above, the CAA have no financial interest in whether the airport is closed or not. If there was any chance whatsoever that safety may be an issue, they would close it until tests could be carried out.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
David_itl
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:05 pm

Quoting Tjr16698 (Reply 43):
One question that I would have is I wonder why Easyjet prefers Bristol over Cardiff?

Go had a base at BRS when easyJet bought them.
 
emalad
Posts: 369
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RE: Easyjet Stops Bristol Flights Due To Runway

Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:46 pm

A few years ago I was on a Britannia flight from EMA to Dalaman when they cabin crew announced that it would be via Bristol. It has to be the worst landing ever, foggy, wet an v v bumpy.

On a serous note tho, I am glad that Easyjet refused to land. Good for them! I am sure that it will appear on an episode of Airline soon, lol  Wink

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