LawnDart
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Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:12 am

Alaska Airlines announced today it will offer new daily nonstop service beginning Sept. 9 between Portland International Airport and Boston and Orlando, Fla. The year-round flights will be available for purchase beginning this afternoon.

The new flights are Alaska Airlines' first nonstop transcontinental routes from Portland and mark the airline's ongoing expansion in the Rose City. The routes also continue Alaska's transcontinental growth, bringing its total number of transcontinental routes to eight.

Portland-Boston flights will depart at 7:45 a.m. Pacific time and arrive at 4 p.m. Eastern time. Return flights will depart at 5 p.m. Eastern time and arrive at 8:20 p.m. Pacific time. Portland-Orlando flights will depart Portland at 9:25 p.m. Pacific time and arrive in Orlando at 5:45 a.m. Eastern time. Return flights will depart Orlando at 7 a.m. Eastern time and arrive in Portland at 10:10 a.m. Pacific time.

The new transcontinental flights will be operated on Boeing 737-700 aircraft, accommodating 12 passengers in first class and 112 in the main cabin. Service begins September 9.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:29 am

PDX-MCO sounds great, but I am a little puzzled why they did not choose EWR over BOS? Maybe they feared the competition with CO from EWR and B6 from JFK.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 1):
PDX-MCO sounds great, but I am a little puzzled why they did not choose EWR over BOS? Maybe they feared the competition with CO from EWR and B6 from JFK.

I would imagine that they chose BOS over EWR because there is no competition. If these routes succeed, I would imagine they will add service toother cities as well.
 
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SANFan
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:51 am

Wonderful news for PDX!

However, I'm intrigued by the huge lead time. It's very unusual to announce domestic service 8 months in advance. I would imagine the timing of the service is based on a/c deliveries, otherwise I can't see skipping the summer season for the BOS flight especially...

Anyone got any ideas about why the long advance notification giving competitors, if any, a chance to beat them to it? Hello B6: to BOS in May perhaps?

It might be a lively summer for Portland Intl!

bb
 
COERJ145
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:59 am

Finally!!, but I wish the PDX flights had a better schedule for connections to/from West Coast cities.
 
B752OS
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:09 am

Wow, this is surprising. I would have thought B6 would be the one to start non-stop BOS-PDX. I hope this works out for AS as PDX is one of the last west coast cities BOS does not have non-stop service to.
 
B752OS
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 2):
I would imagine that they chose BOS over EWR because there is no competition. If these routes succeed, I would imagine they will add service toother cities as well.

When you consider that CO offers 2 daily non-stop flights from EWR and B6 offers a daily non-stop flight from JFK, AS probably does not want to compete with 2 other carriers offering 3 daily flights.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:47 am

Okay.. congratulations and all but I gots to say it..

It would be nice is Alaska would do some more East Coast destinations.. I only see NY, MCO, MIA, DC, and BOS. I know they have some sort of codeshare with AA, but some eastward expansion would be nice. But that's just my thought..
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7):

It would be nice is Alaska would do some more East Coast destinations.. I only see NY, MCO, MIA, DC, and BOS. I know they have some sort of codeshare with AA, but some eastward expansion would be nice. But that's just my thought..

It would be nice, but it isn't going to happen. They serve the big markets - Boston, New York City, DC, Orlando, and Miami. Outside of maybe going to Atlanta or Philadelphia, there isn't a viable place for them to expand due to Seattle's geographic position. While Alaska's hub, it offer limited connections - to Alaska and the Northwest - that are a thin market from the East Coast. I'd bet that we would see EWR-PDX and MIA-PDX before we see them add another East Coast city, and I don't think either of those two are likely.

[Edited 2007-01-05 21:12:03]
a.
 
LawnDart
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
However, I'm intrigued by the huge lead time. It's very unusual to announce domestic service 8 months in advance.

I was a little surprised by this as well. However, if you want to see whether you might be facing direct competition, announce a flight well in advance. If no one announces the same thing within a month or two, proceed. If they do, you can quietly modify your plans and do something else.
 
N174UA
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Outside of maybe going to Atlanta or Philadelphia, there isn't a viable place for them to expand due to Seattle's geographic position.

US only just started PDX-PHL after considering it for a very long time before that, and even then it's a rede-eye. I don't see AS starting a PDX-PHL anytime soon.

Same for ATL...it's safe to say that DL has that market cornered, as does UA with the flight to IAD.

PDX-MCO should do well, and I agree that AS should start PDX-BOS in time for the summer season. PDX-BOS should also do well for them, too.
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:15 am

Damn AS needs to order -900ER so the can do PDX-MCO with more seats. Im sure when they put winglets on them they'll use the current -900s for some longer duties granted we dont know the range increase it will give. does anyone know if AS will order some -900ERs?
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 11):
does anyone know if AS will order some -900ERs?

I'll never say never, but an emphatic "probably not." AS is pretty impressed with the 738 and intends to make it the workhorse of the fleet going forward.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
MAH4546
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 10):
US only just started PDX-PHL after considering it for a very long time before that, and even then it's a rede-eye. I don't see AS starting a PDX-PHL anytime soon.

Same for ATL...it's safe to say that DL has that market cornered, as does UA with the flight to IAD.

I don't think they will start those flights either. I was referring to Alaska starting ATL or PHL from Seattle, not Portland. If Alaska Airlines were to expand trans-con from Portland, it would obviously be Newark and/or Miami, but I don't see either happening.
a.
 
LGA777
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:00 am

I am surprised they are starting it at one of the slowest travel times of the year, especially for Transcons. While MCO has year round demand due to the Theme Parks I think September is one of or the slowest attendance month at Disney, Univerisal, etc.

Regards

LGA777
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 4):
Finally!!, but I wish the PDX flights had a better schedule for connections to/from West Coast cities.

I agree. With only 1 QX flight a day from ACV to PDX and two flights to LAX, it is still nearly impossible for me to connect to any flights to the East Coast. My only options are to fly up to SEA and catch the dreaded redeye, spend the night in SEA and catch the am flight, fly down to LAX and connect to AA or DL or fly United through SFO. The ACV-RDD-PDX flight gets in too late (2:40pm) to connect to any eastbound AS/CO/NW/AA/DL flights unless I want to sit around until redeye o'clock.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
ytib
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 4):
Finally!!, but I wish the PDX flights had a better schedule for connections to/from West Coast cities.

You never know what to expect in the Fall in terms of feeder flights. QX will be getting some CRJ's added to the fleet this year as they scale down their Frontier JetExpress duties.
 
lhpdx
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:02 am

This is great new for PDX and the Portland metropolitan area....I'm so happy that Alaska is finally expanding in Portland and hope to see more in the future...Alaska is a great airlines and I definitely plan to take advantage of this new service...Good job Alaska!
 
lhpdx
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:09 am

One more note, I hope to see Alaska to establish nonstop from PDX to Dallas,NewYork and Washington DC in the future..................
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:56 am

Interesting adds...thin markets that aren't particularly high yield--particularly MCO
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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SANFan
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
Interesting adds...thin markets that aren't particularly high yield--particularly MCO.

Maverick, after my initial happiness for Portland (as expressed in my earlier post), I'm doing just a bit of head scratching myself. I started looking at numbers (per FareMeasure) and comparing them with, say, San Diego. (SAN currently has 1 AA BOS n/s -- with B6 kind of nosing around as well -- and a big fat 0 n/s to MCO.)

Here are the numbers:
PDX-BOS 256 O&D pax/day
SAN-BOS 473 O&D pax/day

PDX-MCO 282 O&D pax/day
SAN-MCO 356 O&D pax/day

I guess different cx look at the numbers differently. Of course cx also apply different values for different cities with additional factors besides just O&D, LF and yields when figuring on where to put their resources.

PDX is of course a hub for AS and QX with some connecting pax as well as being a city in which AS wishes to maintain a high profile and remain a (the?) major player in town. It looks like this year will see QX expansion from PDX and this new service may tie in with that. AS may also figure that some PDX pax actually fly out of SEA (since there is n/s service to MCO from there already) but would become PDX statistics if the service is there. (I know this is the case with SAN pax showing up as LAX pax when there is better service available out of LA.)

It will be interesting to follow this announcement for the next 8 months and see how it all plays out. Again, I do wish AS and PDX the best of luck with these new services.

bb
 
alaska737
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:53 am

Hummmmm....Could this mean we wont be seeing the rumored Hawaii service any time soon???
 
lhpdx
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:06 am

How come it seems like when PDX get new service, most people on here assume that is doomed for failure? I truly hope it succeeds!
 
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SANFan
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 21):
Could this mean we wont be seeing the rumored Hawaii service any time soon???

Interesting point, 737; I almost mentioned that in my post (#20): maybe AS will be flying BOS-PDX-HNL! I'm not sure of the number of new a/c to be delivered this year but, assuming other service is not cut, the new BOS/MCO flights will account for 2 new planes right there...

There hasn't been much in the rumor mill lately re: Hawaii, has there?

bb
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:19 am

Great news for MCO. Will the crew spend the day in MCO or turn the plane around?

MCOflyer
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alaska737
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 23):
There hasn't been much in the rumor mill lately re: Hawaii, has there?

well they did that overwater test as many know, but then the rumors died down, however there is a girl in my class whos dad is an AS pilot and she has told me a few times that AS will start to Hawaii in March. i doubt that it will happen now, but i think it will happen later in the future

[Edited 2007-01-06 03:48:29]
 
lhpdx
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:44 am

BOS-PDX-HNL would be sweet.......We can only hope that will come to fruition........
 
flyibaby
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 24):
Great news for MCO. Will the crew spend the day in MCO or turn the plane around?

Considering the flight is roughly 4.5-5 hours one way, I would say that the crew will probably be scheduled to bring the aircraft in from say SFO-PDX-MCO to maximize the 8 hour maximum work rule for the crew.
 
gmcc
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 23):
I'm not sure of the number of new a/c to be delivered this year

12 will be delivered if to click on the 2006 link on the following page http://alaskasworld.com/NEWS/fleet/fleet_plan.asp . Only 6 are scheduled before September.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:55 pm

This is great to hear... DL used to fly BOS-PDX nonstop in 757s back when they had their PDX Pacific hub going full blast. Lasted about a year.

It is a lousy time to start the route... Oregon is a popular summer destination.

Will AS require another gate at Logan or can they pull this flight off along with the afternoon SEA flight all from one gate?

Some of the traffic from the SEA flight will be stolen by the new PDX flight... no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean the business cannot expand...

[Edited 2007-01-06 15:59:25]
 
COERJ145
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 29):

Will AS require another gate at Logan or can they pull this flight off along with the afternoon SEA flight all from one gate?

Maybe. The SEA flight arrives 6min after the PDX flight leaves(WestJet does this in PSP, seems to work for them).
 
alexinwa
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:34 pm

I think that is about time AS started these routes. I don't buy into for a minute that PDX can't support both of these routes year round. I don't care when they start.

AS would need to sell about 80 to 90 sats of the 124 seat 737-700 to make money.

Maybe it's a ploy to keep B6 out of the PDX-BOS market, or more of what I think, AS is starting something that is a money maker and good for them that they should of started a long time ago.

I think AS could fly 737-700/800's SEA/PDX-JFK/BOS/IAD/PHL/CLT/MIA/MCO/ATL/.......almost anywhere and make it work.

It is a joke that AS doesn't attack on the SEA/PDX-DFW/IAH/ATL routes.

I guess my only question is this......a month or so ago AS said that they wanted I think 70 to 80% of its flights to be in/out of SEA. I guess this is the slight expansion out of that idea????
You mad Bro???
 
N174UA
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 31):
Maybe it's a ploy to keep B6 out of the PDX-BOS market

Exactly...game theory at its best...anticipate your rival's next move and determine your best response. In this case, if AS gets a good enough foothold on PDX-BOS, B6 will likely back off.

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 31):
It is a joke that AS doesn't attack on the SEA/PDX-DFW/IAH/ATL routes.

Well, they partner with AA on the flights to DFW, so I don't see them attacking DFW anytime soon. Applying the thought process in my reply above, CO and DL (respectively) have already established themselves as the dominant carrier on those routes, and revenue management at AS have likely determined (for now) that they can't be profitable by operating their metal on those routes as well.
 
stirling
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Thread starter):
Portland-Orlando flights will depart Portland at 9:25 p.m. Pacific time and arrive in Orlando at 5:45 a.m. Eastern time. Return flights will depart Orlando at 7 a.m

Nothing worse than arriving in Orlando with a bunch of kids who have been up all night, and having to wait another 6 hours for your room.
And then, having to checkout at 4 to make the flight back home.

I've done it, and did not like it one bit...

But.

Beggars can't be choosers.
It is still good for Portland.

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 31):
Maybe it's a ploy to keep B6 out of the PDX-BOS market,

That is exactly what it is. jetBlue has new aircraft arriving too it needs to put somewhere....and Boston, among other cities is a big hole from Portland.

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 31):
I think AS could fly 737-700/800's SEA/PDX-JFK/BOS/IAD/PHL/CLT/MIA/MCO/ATL

At this point, the only one of those that makes sense from PDX would be CLT, only because there is no one on the route, but how would the synergy be between an AS flight and the connections offered by the US network?

Then there is Miami, however, tracking the geography of business - being my business....I can say from a professional viewpoint, Miami is several years away, 10 at the least. I can find not one major source of significant biz traffic at the termini, or beyond. For Miami this would mean the Caribbean or South America, for PDX this means the Pacific NW.....(PDX is skewed to a}The Region, B}Canada, C}Asia, D}Europe, and then, E}Latin America.....not taking into account MX's very successful operations at PDX, which are almost 100%VFR at very healthy fares.)

Thus.

A route from PDX to MIA, would have to survive solely on VFR, and a very small trickle of business passengers....I would say maybe 10 to 15 per weekday....that isn't enough. But the great "thing" is that, "things" change!
We could wake up tomorrow and it be the complete opposite.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
They serve the big markets

True.

So while alot of these places bantered about may seem all well and good, flying a 737 from PDX to say IAD right now, up against UA, or into EWR against CO, etc, would be about as wise as sending that same aircraft to COS...or OMA, or TUS,...and tie up an aircraft for twice as long in the process.
Either way, the aircraft will be less than half full, no matter which of these hypothetical routes is chosen.

Don't get me wrong, no one wants to see PDX grow more than me, but it must be smart growth...and sending mainline jets to every Top 25 market on the Eastern Seaboard is a good way to get clobbered.

For now, BOS, MCO, EWR, IAD, ATL, JFK and PHL is, I believe better than the "Glory" days when the DL hub was there. (One of these days, we'll stop making those comparisons, and look on what "we" have today as infinitely superior.)Sure, the widebodies are gone, but Portland is hardly unique in that regard....everyone except for a few, have lost most of their widebodies.

Maybe down the line, BWI would make sense, or HOU and BNA...but we're not talking about that airline.

And what if they did start looking at that airline's major cities of operations....how long would it be before they retaliate and enter the longer West Coast markets Alaska has a monopoly on?

The Delta pulldown coupled with the semiconductor fall, had wide-reaching effects on PDX that are only being overcome today. Losing the Asian hub, and all the domestic feed that went along with it, was terrible for the confidence the other airlines had in Portland.
Airlines watch other airlines. That's why we are only today seeing routes that many think could have been started long ago, like JFK, BOS, NRT...It takes awhile for that negative energy to dissapate.
The semiconductor biz didn't help, but it was no more horrible than any other U.S. cities grappling with trying to maintain industry in the 21st Century.

Anyway, I am happy for Portland.
No one can say, "Remember the good ol' days?", when 'we had this and that airline and these and those routes'.....because the good ol' days are RIGHT NOW for PDX!
This is the best level of airline service the city has ever had.....and it is REAL service! Not what I consider "faux" routes in support of a fortress hub that does not truly reflect the nature of activity the city would actually support. (No offense, but PIT, MEM, and CVG come to mind.)
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 21):
Hummmmm....Could this mean we wont be seeing the rumored Hawaii service any time soon???

That would be nice. What it's been a rumor for like 3 years now??

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 30):
Maybe. The SEA flight arrives 6min after the PDX flight leaves(WestJet does this in PSP, seems to work for them).

I think they will have to get another gate, or come to some terms with another airline to share a gate. From personal experience at AS I can tell you sometimes we had A/C scheduled for departure still at the gate while an inbound flight arrived. They had to wait, and it must have sucked for the pax. Back when I was there (SAN) we had 2 gates (16 and 17) that were ours. 18 was UA's (now it's used by F9 and YX) so we had to use that on some occasions. Especially during the winter time when the WX in SEA/PDX isn't the best.

Well now that I think about it, PDX is pretty good for on time departures, but with a cross country flight you never know.

Anyway all the best to AS. I hope these routes do well. Big grin  thumbsup 

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 34):
Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 21):
Hummmmm....Could this mean we wont be seeing the rumored Hawaii service any time soon???

That would be nice. What it's been a rumor for like 3 years now??

Far longer than that, but it has been actually MENTIONED as a possible destination for only the last 12 to 18 months or so.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting LawnDart (Thread starter):
Portland-Orlando flights will depart Portland at 9:25 p.m. Pacific time and arrive in Orlando at 5:45 a.m. Eastern time. Return flights will depart Orlando at 7 a.m. Eastern time and arrive in Portland at 10:10 a.m. Pacific time.

Doh! Bad times for spotting at MCO

[Edited 2007-01-07 17:40:58]
 
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SANFan
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:15 am

RE: timing of the SEA and PDX flights in BOS. Remember we are looking at 8 months out on the new flight; I would be amazed if AS didn't shift times and separate the 2 flights by as much as an hour or so before the service actually starts. I can't imagine AS wanting 2 gates in a city to service 2 or 3 flights!

Quoting Stirling (Reply 33):
Not what I consider "faux" routes in support of a fortress hub that does not truly reflect the nature of activity the city would actually support. (No offense, but PIT, MEM, and CVG come to mind.)



Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 31):
......a month or so ago AS said that they wanted I think 70 to 80% of its flights to be in/out of SEA.

Regarding these 2 posts, (I respectfully disagree with you here, Stirling) I think PDX really does have to be considered a "secondary" hub by AS and will need to support new flights primarily with O&D traffic. (Can it do that?) In my opinion, SEA and PDX are much too close together to be mutually exclusive and independent hubs. If AS does in fact want 75% of their flights out of SEA, that will continue to me the major hub.

The PDX-BOS numbers I reported in my earlier post (256 pax/day) equals about 128 pax/day in each direction and that really is pretty light. The success of this flight, in addition to O&D of course, depends on the amount of connecting traffic seen thru PDX as well as how many of the current SEA-BOS pax will prefer to fly from PDX.

One last thought. If AS is trying to head B6 off the PDX-BOS route, (and I wonder if JetBlue, given the low O&D numbers and lack of any connecting traffic, would realistically be looking at the market anyway) the long lead time doesn't make any sense. AS would actually be INVITING B6 to start flying the route starting in May or June and be flying (and establishing themselves on) the route 3 or 4 months before AS ever starts! The more I think about the lead time of this announcement, the less sense it makes.

bb
 
MAH4546
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RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 33):

Then there is Miami, however, tracking the geography of business - being my business....I can say from a professional viewpoint, Miami is several years away, 10 at the least. I can find not one major source of significant biz traffic at the termini, or beyond. For Miami this would mean the Caribbean or South America, for PDX this means the Pacific NW.....(PDX is skewed to a}The Region, B}Canada, C}Asia, D}Europe, and then, E}Latin America.....not taking into account MX's very successful operations at PDX, which are almost 100%VFR at very healthy fares.)

If an airline ever starts Miami-Portland (which is not a large local market at 1999 daily passengers, but has a very high average round-trip fare of $464 from MIA), it will be American Airlines, and that, as you said, isn't happening anytime soon.
a.
 
flyibaby
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 14):
I am surprised they are starting it at one of the slowest travel times of the year, especially for Transcons. While MCO has year round demand due to the Theme Parks I think September is one of or the slowest attendance month at Disney, Univerisal, etc.

Regards

LGA777

I am more surprised that they did'nt time the flights to provide some amount of feed from NWA on the NRT flight. According to the NWA schedule NRT arrives into PDX 0815 and the AS BOS flight departs 0745. These would be fantastic yields to try and capture, even if the larger part of NWA travelers going NRT-BOS would go through MSP or DTW.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 33):
For now, BOS, MCO, EWR, IAD, ATL, JFK and PHL is, I believe better than the "Glory" days when the DL hub was there. (One of these days, we'll stop making those comparisons, and look on what "we" have today as infinitely superior.)Sure, the widebodies are gone, but Portland is hardly unique in that regard....everyone except for a few, have lost most of their widebodies

I'm a little stumped. My memory of the PDX hub "glory days" were that DL flew to a handful of cities throughout the west and several cities east of PDX that were not hub cities, to connect with their Asian network at that time. I don't remember anything particularly glorious about it as they really never had more than 7 or 8 planes on the ground at the same time. Even that was like once a day. You're right, what PDX has now is a lot better than what they have had in the past.
 
B752OS
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:40 am

An interesting fact is that currently, UA carries the most passengers on the BOS-PDX route. I can see the O&D numbers increasing by a decent amount as a result of the non-stop. Perhaps BOS will pull some passengers who would normally fly into MHT or PVD as the result of a non-stop flight.


I wonder why they are not doing a red-eye for this route?
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 22):
How come it seems like when PDX get new service, most people on here assume that is doomed for failure? I truly hope it succeeds!

If for no other reason, the new transcons from PDX announced by Alaska will succeed by picking up overflow from the carrier's undercapacity in the SEA-BOS/MCO markets via connections to/from the QX-operated half-hourly shuttle services between SEA and PDX in both directions......
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 34):
That would be nice. What it's been a rumor for like 3 years now??

Correct me if i am wrong but i believed its really started to pick up since AS completed their overwater tests.

It may not be announced in the next few months or even this year, but AS service to Hawaii will happen.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2426
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 37):
The PDX-BOS numbers I reported in my earlier post (256 pax/day) equals about 128 pax/day in each direction and that really is pretty light. The success of this flight, in addition to O&D of course, depends on the amount of connecting traffic seen thru PDX as well as how many of the current SEA-BOS pax will prefer to fly from PDX.

See below:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 42):
If for no other reason, the new transcons from PDX announced by Alaska will succeed by picking up overflow from the carrier's undercapacity in the SEA-BOS/MCO markets via connections to/from the QX-operated half-hourly shuttle services between SEA and PDX in both directions......

 checkmark 

This is the same strategy that NW has used with their PDX-NRT flight - shifting some of that connecting traffic to PDX allowing the SEA flights to cater more to O&D demand. While there will certainly be strong O&D on these new flights from PDX (MCO especially), some of the connecting traffic from Oregon and Eastern Washington and be routed through PDX.

That said, the initial schedules for these flights are pretty poor. BOS is well-timed for the O&D business traveller, but poorly for connecting traffic. MCO is poorly timed for families with kids. As mentioned above, it's miserable taking a red-eye with kids. And it's really tough to take a 7am flight home. Because of AS's route structure, the red-eyes either have to turn around immediately or sit at the airport all day. They don't have the luxury that B6 does, where they can use the plane all day up and down the East Coast before going back west. Maybe one day AS will start SJU or another city, where the flights can meet in MCO and transfer passengers, and return in the evening to the West Coast, which is a preferred schedule. Probably a pipe dream though.

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 31):
I think AS could fly 737-700/800's SEA/PDX-JFK/BOS/IAD/PHL/CLT/MIA/MCO/ATL/.......almost anywhere and make it work.

It is a joke that AS doesn't attack on the SEA/PDX-DFW/IAH/ATL routes.

PDX-Washington DC won't happen unless additional exemptions open up at DCA. AS just closed the IAD station this year, and they wouldn't have done it just to reopen a year or so later for PDX flights. Even if additional exemptions came about, I'd wager that AS would go for an additional LAX frequency before PDX.

I think AS should go for PHL, TPA, and additional MIA frequencies next, followed by IAH. ATL is well served with DL and now FL as well. IAH and PHL only have one competitor, and in the case of PHL, it is not an alliance partner. TPA has enough O&D for a daily 73G. MIA could use a daytime flight.

CLT doesn't have the O&D numbers for AS service to either PDX or SEA. The only reason SEA has CLT service now is due to US's large hub - but even that hub only warrants 1-2 flights daily.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24720
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 44):
TPA has enough O&D for a daily 73G. MIA could use a daytime flight.

Tampa would never work, IMO. They don't even have flights to San Francisco.

I heard from MIA employees that MIA-SEA is supposed to get a second flight in October.
a.
 
B752OS
Posts: 644
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 44):
I think AS should go for PHL, TPA, and additional MIA frequencies next, followed by IAH. ATL is well served with DL and now FL as well. IAH and PHL only have one competitor, and in the case of PHL, it is not an alliance partner. TPA has enough O&D for a daily 73G. MIA could use a daytime flight.

Do you really think AS will want to start SEA-IAH, a market, although it currently has only one carrier CO, that is pretty well covered with 8 daily flights? I think PHL is the better option as US only offers a single daily flight
 
Chugach
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:59 pm

Hopefully as the 738's continue coming in, AS will start filling some of the gaps at PDX. These new flights, combined with the PDX-SJD/PVR flights that just started, I bet are just the beginning.

If I had to bet, I would say the next PDX-"Eastern" destination would be ORD. It would fill in a nice gap in their network, and it doesn't require a long-haul aircraft.

I could also see a once-daily PDX-EWR working well for them. Adding at least one more year-round ANC flight would also be great.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 46):
Do you really think AS will want to start SEA-IAH, a market, although it currently has only one carrier CO, that is pretty well covered with 8 daily flights? I think PHL is the better option as US only offers a single daily flight

It'll never happen, but PDX-IAH I think would be more ripe for the pickings than SEA-IAH. Currently, CO is up to three flights a day, and in my numerous experiences they always go out full.
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 47):
Hopefully as the 738's continue coming in, AS will start filling some of the gaps at PDX

I agree, AS is thin on A/C and i think the 737-700 will be the best fit in PDX. Once the -800's start rolling in, we can expect new routes and more flights by AS.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Alaska To Start PDX-BOS/MCO

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 37):
I respectfully disagree with you here, Stirling

We actually agree....

Quoting SANFan (Reply 37):
I think PDX really does have to be considered a "secondary" hub by AS and will need to support new flights primarily with O&D traffic.

I suppose I didn't make myself all that clear.
These new AS flights to BOS and MCO will need to survive on their own merits; the PDX O/D, rather than on the feed coming into the *Hub* (Focus op), which I agree, is not as strong as SEA, but still, all-in-all, a rather busy little place.

By "Faux", I am implicating many routes from some of the nation's secondary hubs that exist only for the connecting traffic. The test being, if AAA-BBB was the only route an airline had, would it be viable? Many of the routes from hubs from CVG, MEM, and even CLT exist for only this purpose, whereas these new AS routes are, for the most part, routes that could exist without any other feed. Hence, these new AS routes are "Real" routes, and not "Faux"....
So in my roundabout way, we do agree!
 Smile

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 40):
I'm a little stumped. My memory of the PDX hub "glory days" were that DL flew to a handful of cities throughout the west and several cities east of PDX that were not hub cities, to connect with their Asian network at that time. I don't remember anything particularly glorious about it as they really never had more than 7 or 8 planes on the ground at the same time.

For a place like Portland, that had been in a slump since the mid 70s when the Timber industry up and moved to the Southeast U.S.; Delta basing an important operation such as their Asian hub was big stuff.

But you're right, the cities they connected to in PDX, saw all of a single flight a day beyond the Big 3 hubs; BOS, PHX, LAS, JFK, YVR, etc...were all timed to Asia.

It can be very easy for some younger members to look back on those days and be very sentimental or nostalgic, remembering that era when as many as 5 widebodies (L15s and later M11s) were on the ground at one time.

I have seen things written by some referring to the era prior to deregulation, when at times UA had more flights into PDX than SEA, (they went back and forth...shuffling between 40 and 45 daily deps.)

PDX had at the most only 130 daily departures....it only looked better then because of the equipment that came to Portland, in that regard, I'll have to confer, "those were the days!": Eastern would bring the L1011 Whisperjets, Braniff sometimes Big Orange, and 727s of multiple colours, then of course United was always good for a DC10 or two, and occassionally a 747...and Delta, even before Western, sent a healthy diet of L1011s and 767s to PDX from ATL, DFW, and SLC.
And up to 1977, PA sent a 707: LHR-SEA-PDX-HNL which was exciting.....it could be easy to look back and wax nostalgic about the way things once were.

But it's not just PDX, many folks get all misty-eyed when remembering the way it used to be at their hometown airport......my point is, the good-ol-days weren't so great. Sure I'll miss the parade of bright yellow RW -9s and -27s, the swizzle stick of Western, and the cigars of Air Oregon, it was colorful, different, and varied but not better.
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