FL370
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Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:06 am

i was looking at some photots from boeing and airbus, and i realized that the A350 looks almost like the 787. the wingtips of the a350 bend up like the 787, nose looks more aerodynamic. and some small details in between make them both look similer!!

can someone help me with this and tell the differences.
the one major difference i know about the two planes, is that one has 4models, and the other has one model.


fl370
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:11 am

That may be so -- but one could be lead to believe that since the technology right now is pretty well matched, you COULD be seeing duplicate technology on differently produced aircraft.

Airframe manufacturers (Russian ones excluded LOL re: Buran Shuttle & TU-144 LOL) do NOT model their aircraft so they 'look similar'. Looks come secondary to functionality and performance in this business!

1011yyz
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zvezda
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:44 am

Form follows function. Over time, each generation approaches nearer and nearer to perfect aerodynamic efficiency. That means they approach nearer and nearer to a particular shape. It's an example of evolutionary convergence.

I still think the A350 has better looking cockpit windows than the 787.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
I still think the A350 has better looking cockpit windows than the 787.

See if they stick around.... the 787 used to be much more attractive, before it started to look more and more like a 777 with curvier wings and a less attractive tail.

Both are very attractive aircraft, though I wish Airbus would come up with an attractive livery of their own ... similar to Boeing's dreamliner livery, which really goes a long way towards creating an attractive image for their aircraft.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
T773ER
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
one has 4models, and the other has one model.

Which one has one model, the 787 will have 3 probably four models.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
I still think the A350 has better looking cockpit windows than the 787.

I do like the windows because they have a dark tint, I don't know if that will stick around though.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
the 787 used to be much more attractive, before it started to look more and more like a 777 with curvier wings and a less attractive tail.

By 'curvy' I assume you are referring to the insane wing flex in the Boeing renderings. Any bets on whether the 787's wings will actually flex that much, when it flies in a few months?
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
i was looking at some photots from boeing and airbus, and i realized that the A350 looks almost like the 787.

You mean like this:

Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 5):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
the 787 used to be much more attractive, before it started to look more and more like a 777 with curvier wings and a less attractive tail.

By 'curvy' I assume you are referring to the insane wing flex in the Boeing renderings. Any bets on whether the 787's wings will actually flex that much, when it flies in a few months?

Well, since the wingtips are flexed well up past the top of the fuselage... and not just during takeoff and climbout, but in the images at level flight, i'd be a little afraid if they did. I mean, if you look out the window and the wings are bending like crazy... i dunno...

i call it curvy because i have a hard time imaging it in reality, but i can't wait to see it when it flies!
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
burnsie28
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:14 pm

The redesign turned the A350 into the 787, just like the A380 looks almost 100% like the MD-12, the original A350 resembled a A330.
 
grantcv
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:27 pm

Right now the A350XWB's (Stupid name) windows are quite similar to the original 7E7 concept. Airbus will probably conclude that while they look attractive, the visibility is inadequate and the final shape will probably much more like the B787. That will make the B787 and the A350XWB Mk X even more similar. The primary difference at that point will be the chevron's on the engine nacelles and I think Boeing might have that patented.
 
Bradleycheuk
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:55 pm

A question that has been bothering me is the 787's passenger windows without the sliding shades. They plan to have the windows tint itself b a touch of a button and vice versa, but wouldn't that add on to maintenance cost and the plane itself?

Thanks
Brad
 
zvezda
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting Bradleycheuk (Reply 10):
A question that has been bothering me is the 787's passenger windows without the sliding shades. They plan to have the windows tint itself b a touch of a button and vice versa, but wouldn't that add on to maintenance cost and the plane itself?

It's expected to reduce maintenance costs as the sliding shades break from time to time. Solid-state devices are generally more reliable than mechanical devices. It also saves weight, which contributes to cost savings.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:51 pm

Yawn, this subject's been done to death don't you think?!

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 2):
Form follows function. Over time, each generation approaches nearer and nearer to perfect aerodynamic efficiency.

Agreed: 707 and DC-8; L-1011 and DC-10, A300 and 767.

Regards
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zeke
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 6):
You mean like this:

Still can see the A330 lines on it

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Tom_EDDF
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:54 pm

Actually, my first thaught was the A350XWB cockpit windows, more than anything else, look a lot like those on a luxury coach  Smile by Neoplan, a stuttgart, Germany based manufacturer:



Well, at least both are some sort of "busses"  Smile
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 1):
Airframe manufacturers (Russian ones excluded LOL re: Buran Shuttle & TU-144 LOL) do NOT model their aircraft so they 'look similar'. Looks come secondary to functionality and performance in this business!

While the Buran did look similar to the Shuttle Orbiter, there were major differences, too (like no cockpit windows, because it would not have a crew). The TU-144 completed design and began flying before the Concord did, so the Russians could actually say the French and British copied their design (without the retractable conards). The Mig-25 and F-15 also look similar (the F-15 was designed first), but the Mig-25 always looked bigger and heavier.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 5):
Any bets on whether the 787's wings will actually flex that much, when it flies in a few months?

Boeing has a lot of experience with high wing flex, going back to the B-52 design, which had an astonishing 28' wing flex at the wingtip.

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 9):
The primary difference at that point will be the chevron's on the engine nacelles and I think Boeing might have that patented.

I don't think so because the engines on the E-170/-190 also have chevrons, or shark teeth.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):

While the Buran did look similar to the Shuttle Orbiter, there were major differences, too (like no cockpit windows, because it would not have a crew)

http://www.buran.ru/images/jpg/bburan27.jpg

Certainly looks like it had windows...

The first flight of the Buran was pilotless, but it was intended to have a crew.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:42 pm

Don't we really have to wait until they are built to compare how they look. All we have now are drawings.

Also, airlines buying them could not care less how they look!
 
ZeroTwoGrass
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
While the Buran did look similar to the Shuttle Orbiter, there were major differences, too (like no cockpit windows, because it would not have a crew).

Actually, the biggest difference between Buran and the Shuttle Orbiter was that Buran had no engines/rockets. Unlike the Shuttle which has 3.

Buran relied purely on 'strap-ons' for launch.


Having said that, I think they both look boring and unimaginative. Don't know about you guys....
 
SPREE34
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:39 am

Computers are doing a lot of the designing. The 1s and 0s tend to come up with the same idea whether they be North American digits or European digits.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
dw747400
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
The TU-144 completed design and began flying before the Concord did, so the Russians could actually say the French and British copied their design (without the retractable conards).

The 144 was built, at least in part, from data gathered about the Concorde using less than respectable means. Some of the features found on the aircraft are attempts to replicate designs by British and French engineers. Obviously the talent of Russian engineers contributed to the design and helped get it into the air first, but there is still a lot of Concorde in the 144.

Also, the canards were a retrofit later to improve low-speed handling. The wing on the 144 was less advanced than Concorde's and the canards were needed to increase stability and controlability.
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Arniepie
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
The Mig-25 and F-15 also look similar (the F-15 was designed first), but the Mig-25 always looked bigger and heavier.

Pretty sure the FOXBAT was the older one , by an 8 year margin i think.
The twin tail and very distinctive inlets where first seen on the big and fast Russian.
[edit post]
 
Garri767
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 1):
Airframe manufacturers (Russian ones excluded LOL re: Buran Shuttle & TU-144 LOL) do NOT model their aircraft so they 'look similar'. Looks come secondary to functionality and performance in this business!

eh, i think i have to give this speech every day. the TU-144 CAME OUT BEFORE concorde. now ill give ya the buran shuttle on that one though  Wink
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting ArniePie (Reply 21):
Pretty sure the FOXBAT was the older one , by an 8 year margin i think.
The twin tail and very distinctive inlets where first seen on the big and fast Russian.

Again, correct -

Mig-25 project announcement 1961, first flight 1964, EIS 1970.
F-15 project announcement 1969, first flight 1972, EIS 1976.
 
boeingfixer
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:57 am

Facts first please!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
While the Buran did look similar to the Shuttle Orbiter, there were major differences, too (like no cockpit windows, because it would not have a crew).

The Buran was, for the most part, a copy of the Space Shuttle. Buran did have flight deck windows and was going to fly with a crew although its first and only space flight was not piloted.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
The TU-144 completed design and began flying before the Concord did, so the Russians could actually say the French and British copied their design (without the retractable conards).

The USSR used industrial espionage to obtain Concorde data and plans. This has been proven. Actually BAC and Sud Aviation were working independently of each other on SST projects in the late 50's and were ready to start constructing prototypes as early as 1962. The Governments of France and UK signed an agreement for their joint venture in Nov. 1962 and the rest is Concorde history. OTOH, Tupolev did not start the development of the TU-144 until 1963. Late start, early flight, early retirement.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
The Mig-25 and F-15 also look similar (the F-15 was designed first), but the Mig-25 always looked bigger and heavier.

The MiG-25 was designed to counter the threat posed by the XB-70, YF-12, A-12 and SR-71. The prototype of the Foxbat, the Ye-155-R1, first flew in 1964. The F-15 was designed to counter the Mig-25 and first flew in 1972.


Cheers,

John
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N328KF
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 24):
The MiG-25 was designed to counter the threat posed by the XB-70, YF-12, A-12 and SR-71. The prototype of the Foxbat, the Ye-155-R1, first flew in 1964. The F-15 was designed to counter the Mig-25 and first flew in 1972.

The funny thing is, you can trace a direct tit-for-tat lineage starting from the Vigilante -> Foxbat -> Eagle -> Flanker-A -> Raptor.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:16 am

These will be two of the blandest looking planes in the sky. I cannot get excited about either of them.
 
EI321
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RE: Doesn't The A350 Look The 787?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
See if they stick around.... the 787 used to be much more attractive, before it started to look more and more like a 777 with curvier wings and a less attractive tail.

Those original 787 windows did look rather unpractical from a design point of view.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 26):
These will be two of the blandest looking planes in the sky. I cannot get excited about either of them.

Well at least from a passengers point of view, the interiors will be very pleasant.