CodyKDiamond
Topic Author
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:28 am

A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:09 am

Hello
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F
Thanks
 
boeingguy1
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:31 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F

Correct me if im wrong, but arent all 744s equipped with the stretched deck standard?
Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 1):
Correct me if im wrong, but arent all 744s equipped with the stretched deck standard?

I believe that is absolutely correct.

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F

Not that I know of.
No Vueling No Party
 
bohica
Posts: 2304
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...like a 742/744F

No. All pax 744's have the stretched upper deck. Boeing built the 744F with the standard upper deck because a stretched upper deck is not necessary. You may see some 744 cargo planes with stretched upper decks. They were converted from pax/combi to cargo.
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:32 am

As ever, a picture is worth a thousand words  Wink


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marco Toso - SpotIT

 
CodyKDiamond
Topic Author
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:28 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:21 am

Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?

Thanks
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5):
Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?
The standard upper deck for a 747-400 is the stretched upper deck.

All PAX 747-400s are equipped with the stretch upper deck.

[Edited 2007-01-07 23:23:36]
No Vueling No Party
 
CodyKDiamond
Topic Author
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:28 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:24 am

Thank you but are the any 747-400 passenger with a "200 Standard" Upper-Deck?
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5):
Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?

No. If they were equipped with a standard upper deck, those would be of the 747-100/-200 variants. ALL 744's have the stretched upper deck, that is part of their main, unique improvement from the standard 747's. The 747-300 also has the stretched upper deck...
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
pygmalion
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:27 am

no, non, nyet, lo, none. The 747-400 passenger aircraft includes the longer upper deck. If it doesn't have it, it's not a 747-400 pax aircraft.
 
CodyKDiamond
Topic Author
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:28 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:28 am

Thanks, but what I am saying is that most 744F have a shortenened -200 like upper deck. But are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?
 
CodyKDiamond
Topic Author
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:28 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:31 am

Thank you very much. This info really helped me as today I was on my 2nd 747-a 228F!!! operated by Atlas Air (809MC) and I was just curious. The upper-deck is so cool on the 747....also my first Tristar today.

Thanks Again
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
But are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?

The answer to your question is no.

Interestingly, there are a small number of -200's that have had their upper decks stretched to the size of a -400.
 
graphic
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 8):
The 747-300 also has the stretched upper deck...

Weren't there some KLM 742s with it also?

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 8):
ALL 744's have the stretched upper deck, that is part of their main, unique improvement from the standard 747's.

That and the advanced flightdeck, avionics, engines, extended range, extended fuselage...
Demand Media fails at life
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):

Weren't there some KLM 742s with it also?

yes there were...The 742BM (SUD)'s

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1040723/L/

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):

That and the advanced flightdeck, avionics, engines, extended range, extended fuselage...

lol yes...that goes without saying though....  Big grin

those aren't exactly noticeable, either, but thanks  Big grin
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9854
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):

That and the advanced flightdeck, avionics, engines, extended range, extended fuselage...

"extended fuselage"...you sure ? thought the lengh of the aircraft has not changed in 30 years ?

AFAIK all 747s except the SP all have the same length fuselage.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
"extended fuselage"...you sure ? thought the lengh of the aircraft has not changed in 30 years ?

AFAIK all 747s except the SP all have the same length fuselage.

that is correct.
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
User avatar
AA777223
Posts: 976
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
AFAIK all 747s except the SP all have the same length fuselage.

Don't forget that beautiflul brand new 747-8. It features the first ever fuselage stretch in the aircrafts history. Lovely Bird (at least I think it will be)! Big grin
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18991
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Another 744 oddity is the special 744D model built for JL and NH for shorthaul domestic service which does not have winglets. That makes them easy to confuse with 743s. Winglets can be added later should these aircraft be transferred to longhaul service. The winglets didn't generate any operational benefits on short domestic routes so they were omitted to reduce weight.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David James Clelford

 
VC10DC10
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:56 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):

Apart from more seats, are there any other differences between 744Ds and regular pax 744s?
 
jetjeanes
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:42 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:43 pm

Wasnt there a 742 that was made into a 744 ?>>> and wasnt some 744, windows pluged for some reason,,,there was something odd there i cant remember,,
i can see for 80 miles
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:51 pm

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Thread starter):
Are there any B744 PAX. Version without a stretched upper deck?...



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 2):
Not that I know of.



Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5):
Yes, but are any passenger 747-400 equipped with a standard upper-deck?



Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 6):
All PAX 747-400s are equipped with the stretch upper deck.



Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 7):
Thank you but are the any 747-400 passenger with a "200 Standard" Upper-Deck?



Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 8):
No.



Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
Thanks, but what I am saying is that most 744F have a shortenened -200 like upper deck.



Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 9):
no, non, nyet, lo, none.

Wow, you really want to make the answer a YES, dont you?

My favorite reply is this:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 12):
The answer to your question is no.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18991
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 19):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):


Apart from more seats, are there any other differences between 744Ds and regular pax 744s?

In addition to no winglets, the 744D also lacks the wingtip extensions of other 744s. The 744D wingspan is thus identical to the 741/742/743, approximately 16 feet less than the standard 744. I believe the 744D may have some other reinforcements in things like landing gear/brakes etc. to cope with the much more frequent landing/takeoff cycles but I'm not sure. You could probably get a better answer in the Tech/Ops forum.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13072
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?

No. The 747-400PAX and 747-400 Combi have pretty much the same fuselage as the 747-300. The 747-400 Freighter (except those who got aftermarket conversions from PAX to freighter aircraft) use basically the same fuselage of the 747-100/-200.

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 20):
Wasnt there a 742 that was made into a 744

No. However, there is the 747-200SUD. Here an example with KL PH-BUN.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Spijkers

The 747-200SUD is what later became the 747-300 and in time evolved to the 747-400.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18991
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
The 747-200SUD is what later became the 747-300 and in time evolved to the 747-400.

Your chronology isn't quite right. The 747-200SUD didn't "later become" the 747-300. The factory-built 747-300 had been in service for some time (first service with Swissair March 23, 1983) before KL decided to modify 11 of their 747-200s to add the stretched upper deck. KL also bought 3 new 747-300s in addition to the 11 -200SUD conversions. All KL -300s and -200SUDs now sold/retired.

Apart from the 747SP, the -300 was the least successful 747 model in terms of sales -- only 81 were built apart from the KL -200SUD conversions.

One of the 3 factory-built -300s originally operated by KL is still a frequent visitor to AMS:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Giovanni Verbeeck



[Edited 2007-01-08 09:34:37]

[Edited 2007-01-08 09:36:29]
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:38 pm

If you really want to screw with his mind, let's talk about where the VC-25A fits into this mess.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: A 744 Question

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 25):
If you really want to screw with his mind, let's talk about where the VC-25A fits into this mess.

LOL.. That'll do it.

Funniest thread starter ever.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 11):
also my first Tristar today.

I am curious about this? Whose tristar, did you look at it, fly on it?

M
 
darkblue
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:27 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:07 am

Ah come guys, let's be nice. He did have a good question, but each time he restated it he still didn't phrase it in a good way.

CodyKDiamond, might I help you a bit? I think your point was that since freighter customers can purchase a 744 with the short upper deck, could a passenger customer ask for the same? Or what about converted 744s? Passenger-to-freighter conversions are common, but has anyone ever done a 744 freighter-to-passenger conversion?
 
9VSIO
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:00 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:05 am

Did any earlier 747s get a refit with glass cockpit though?
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9854
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 29):
Did any earlier 747s get a refit with glass cockpit though?

Think KLM, QF (partial) and Air Force One.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
jfk777
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:46 am

After the 747-300 all passenger 747's were extended upper decks. The last short decks(-100/200) would have been built around 1988 until production of the 744 began. WHY would an airline buy a 742 when the 744 was ready to go.
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 13):
Weren't there some KLM 742s with it also?

JAL and UTA also had aircraft fitted with the SUD, don't know if JAL's are still flying but UTA's are still flying for Air France
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 32):
JAL and UTA also had aircraft fitted with the SUD, don't know if JAL's are still flying

JAL never had any converted, the -100SR/SUDs came with the streched upper deck straight from the factory:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © YK



Retiring very soon if not already.
AY and ANA rock!
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 30):
Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 29):
Did any earlier 747s get a refit with glass cockpit though?

Think KLM, QF (partial) and Air Force One.

Also, the UAE 747SP VIP has had a glass cockpit retrofitted, thus making it a one of a kind aircraft! Pictures can be found here:

http://www.747sp.com/pdf/B747%20A6%20SMM%20SPEC1.pdf
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13072
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Apart from the 747SP, the -300 was the least successful 747 model in terms of sales -- only 81 were built apart from the KL -200SUD conversions.

Am I correct in saying that the -300 failed because no other measures were taken to give it a good range with the weight increase from the stretched upper deck?
 
boeingfixer
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:02 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 35):
Am I correct in saying that the -300 failed because no other measures were taken to give it a good range with the weight increase from the stretched upper deck?

Actually the range of the SUD 743 was very good at 7700 NM. This was due to the better fuel burns of newer engines and minor aerodynamic changes. What cut the 743 sales short was the introduction of the 744. The first 743 entered service in 1983 while the 744 was launched in 1985. Taking this into account, you can't say that the 743 failed as Boeing cut the possible sales short due to introducing the 744.

Cheers,

John
Cheers, John YYC
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 36):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 35):
Am I correct in saying that the -300 failed because no other measures were taken to give it a good range with the weight increase from the stretched upper deck?


Actually the range of the SUD 743 was very good at 7700 NM. This was due to the better fuel burns of newer engines and minor aerodynamic changes. What cut the 743 sales short was the introduction of the 744. The first 743 entered service in 1983 while the 744 was launched in 1985. Taking this into account, you can't say that the 743 failed as Boeing cut the possible sales short due to introducing the 744.

The 743 did have some improvements in range over older models but not enough for most operators who wanted a much more improved aircraft. Boeing initially planned a slightly updated 747-300A in 1984 but realised that the 747 needed a much more thorough overhaul resulting in the -400.
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: A 744 Question

Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:32 am

All 744 have a stretched upper deck...thats why they were developed in the first place...(743 first)
121
 
mptpa
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am

RE: A 744 Question

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 10):
Thanks, but what I am saying is that most 744F have a shortenened -200 like upper deck. But are the any 744 model that carry a shortened upper deck like the 744F?

All factory built 744F have short upper deck. AC that got converted from passenger variant will have the standard stretched upper deck of the B744. These include 744SF and 744BCF.

All factory built (read as standard) B744 have stretched upper deck which is THE standard configuration. ANything else will not be 744.

KLM did stretches of the 747-200 to 747SUD (stretched upper deck), which looks like 747-300. These do not have the winglets as seen on the 744 or 744F.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], dergay, evanb, Gemuser, Heavierthanair, KarelXWB, keesje, rutankrd, SamYeager2016, Scanorama, smi0006, Tristarsteve, ulker32, User001, vicentezc, zkanz and 278 guests