jimyvr
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Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:25 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ure+in+Ethiopian+top-up+order.html

From Flight International (09JAN07)

Besides having order 10 787, it is looking for another 5, but may opt to split the order and go with Airbus this time.
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ikramerica
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Besides having order 10 787, it is looking for another 5, but may opt to split the order and go with Airbus this time.

What an impractical proposition.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:27 am

I don´t see that happening.

Ethiopian will go Boeing-787 all the way IYAM.

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andessmf
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:31 am

We cannot assume that. Airbus might provide sufficient differentiation between the two airplanes to make it worth it for some airlines to have both in their fleet, witness SQ.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:45 am

If this is true, this would be a big victory for Airbus, because Ethiopian has historically been one of Boeing's best customers.
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Thorben
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:00 am

I wouldn't rule that out. They have the 788 on order, they might combine it with A359 or A3510. 787 orders are mainly 788, I think there will be quite a few carriers combining them with the larger A350s, as there are many today that have 777 and A330/340.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
kulatict
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:04 am

probably a way to make Boeing gives a nice discount...
 
ikramerica
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting KULatICT (Reply 6):
probably a way to make Boeing gives a nice discount...

Nail, meet hammer. I'd watch your head if I were you...  Wink

Seriously, Boeing needs to launch the 787-10 before yesterday if they want to avoid losing orders to the 359X.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:26 am

IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.

You can say that about very many countries in the world who have great national carriers if you wanted. Bottom line is, the airline is a business that makes a profit like any other. Get over it........and people are not fleeing the Ethiopia.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
mptpa
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
We cannot assume that. Airbus might provide sufficient differentiation between the two airplanes to make it worth it for some airlines to have both in their fleet, witness SQ.

You cannot compare SQ with ET: the fleet sizes do not justify dual fleets... it is impractical and inefficient in terms of financial viability.....


Ethiopia is poor country as a whole, however, ET as an airline is well run, well managed company which in a business sense would be a hell of a lot better than the otherwise better known so called blue chips!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.

Would you rather have people eating off the government dole or working and improving the economy? Your suggestion would have all industry in poor countries shut down and liquidated in order to feed people. What happens when you run out of money to buy food?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
iclcy
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.

It might not be Thailand, but there is plenty of tourist traffic willing to spend $$$ to see sights such as the Omo Valley, Lalibela, Simien Moutain region, etc

Famine - is yr TV tuned to the 1980's?

War torn? tiny pockets of activity on the Eritrean & Somali borders - hardly war torn.

Addis is an important hub from West to East/Southern Africa & onwards to Europe/Asia/USA
 
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PM
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.

"Poor" - yes. "War-torn" - no. "Famined" - not most of the people most of the time. Parts of Ethiopia are green, lush and fertile.

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 12):
Addis is an important hub from West to East/Southern Africa & onwards to Europe/Asia/USA

Indeed. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all traffic in and out of Addis Ababa is O&D. ET have worked hard to create a relatively attractive route network. Want to fly DAR-Rome? Go with LX via ZRH or with ET via Addis Ababa. It'll be cheaper on ET. When I lived in DAR the ET sales rep kept trying to get me to sign an Africa-wide deal on behalf of my company. It would have meant flying DAR-JNB via Ethiopia (!) so I didn't do it but for other routes it was feasible and cheap. I know people who flew DAR-BOM via Addis and so on...

That said, I'd be amazed to see ET order A350s! But recall that they took (and maybe still have) options on 777s so they think they need/want the capacity.
 
dkny
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.

That is such an ignorant comment.

As per the A350. Airbus officials were in ADD when the 380 visited in October. I think they might have reached a deal then. ET also had the Star 330 for six months. I think they were happy with the performance of the plane.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Dkny (Reply 14):

That is such an ignorant comment.

Nothing bad about Ethopia as everybody is suddenly jumpingon my back! What I just want to know is if they'll have the traffic to fill such planes and i.f. the money to pay for them.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
ebbuk
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 15):
Nothing bad about Ethopia as everybody is suddenly jumpingon my back! What I just want to know is if they'll have the traffic to fill such planes and i.f. the money to pay for them.

That is a better way to ask the question than your last one. I suggest you ask the mods to delete your first post, for it sounded too ignorant for words. Just a thought.

Ethiopian is a great airline with a great history and have made Addis Ababa(that's the capital of Ethiopia) a maintenance centre of excellence in Northern Africa, if I recall. The country produces some quite brilliant engineers as a result of this.

Be great for Airbus, that is one African customer that would be great to bag!
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting Dkny (Reply 14):
As per the A350. Airbus officials were in ADD when the 380 visited in October. I think they might have reached a deal then. ET also had the Star 330 for six months. I think they were happy with the performance of the plane.

I was wondering if they were going to take a couple of A388s!
 
FCKC
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:06 am

Dkny , thanks for your comment.Please keep us informed (if you can) about the future negociation between Airbus and ET.
In another way , do you know if the A330 ET leased from Star , had small ET stickers , even small ones.........Thanks.
 
A388
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting KULatICT (Reply 6):
probably a way to make Boeing gives a nice discount...

You beat me to it. This looks like a way to get a better deal from Boeing, nothing more.

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 10):
You cannot compare SQ with ET: the fleet sizes do not justify dual fleets... it is impractical and inefficient in terms of financial viability.....

Again, very well said. ET cannot be compared to SQ as these two airlines are totally different in size and financial position. ET is a small airline where operating two different aircraft types in the same category does not make any sense. I think ET is just trying to put more pressure on Boeing and especially the larger 787-10.

A388
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.


= In his defense, how many people from Ethiopia know much about Venezuela  Smile ... HOWEVER, Addis Ababa is an extremely efficient transit airport and is as modern (if not more) than our new CCS. Service on board ET is probably significantly higher than anything in the Americas ... ok, TAM might come close.

Cheers,
A.

[Edited 2007-01-11 01:01:11]
Live, and let live.
 
gbfra
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):
You beat me to it. This looks like a way to get a better deal from Boeing, nothing more.

If it is "nothing more" than to get a better deal with Boeing, why should Boeing offer a better deal?

This kind of reasoning doesn't make any sense unless you assume the Boeing people are lunatics. But they certainely aren't.
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JAL
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:25 am

Doesn't make sense for a small airline like them to split the order and operate 2 different types!
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A388
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 21):
If it is "nothing more" than to get a better deal with Boeing, why should Boeing offer a better deal?

This kind of reasoning doesn't make any sense unless you assume the Boeing people are lunatics. But they certainely aren't.

It has nothing to do with being lunatic, but simple buying techniques. If you want product A but the price is higher (compared to when the product first came out) you "go" for the competing product to get a better deal for the initial product to want, in this case the 787. If you see a loyal customer showing interest in any competing product what do you do, you try to win them back by offering a (slightly) better deal.

There are a number of airlines who use the "I will buy Airbus (or Boeing)" talk to get a better deal from the competing aircraft manufacturer (Boeing or Airbus). So this kind of reasoning does make sense. I too hope ET will go for the A350 but I think the chances of them actually ordering the A350 is (very) small.

A388
 
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PM
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
If you want product A but the price is higher (compared to when the product first came out) you "go" for the competing product to get a better deal for the initial product to want, in this case the 787. If you see a loyal customer showing interest in any competing product what do you do, you try to win them back by offering a (slightly) better deal.

I think we all understand how it works but the threat to buy the competitor's aircraft has to be credible. BA, for example, could convincingly play off Airbus and Boeing against each other for a big narrowbody order but does Boeing seriously think that ET might jump ship and buy A350s? Who's bluffing whom? If I were Boeing I'd sit tight and call ET's bluff. I very much doubt that I'd end up regretting it...
 
A388
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting PM (Reply 24):
but does Boeing seriously think that ET might jump ship and buy A350s? Who's bluffing whom? If I were Boeing I'd sit tight and call ET's bluff. I very much doubt that I'd end up regretting it...

You are right. This is the other side of the story. I also don't see ET going for the A350. Even so I wouldn't be just sitting for this order but keep a watchful eye open. Np matter how likely an order might be, you should always be ready to react and watch the market developments.

A388
 
dkny
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 18):
In another way , do you know if the A330 ET leased from Star , had small ET stickers , even small ones.........Thanks.

The 330 had the 60th anniversary sticker on one side of the plane. That was the only thing it had showing ET.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 20):
his

'her' if you don't mind Cool
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
FCKC
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:10 am

Many thanks Dkny , for this info.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 27):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 20):
his

'her' if you don't mind

= Oops. Sorry.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:43 am

I seriously doubt that Ethiopian will actually order the A350. This seems very much like a negotiation tactic and nothing more. They are a well run airline and likely know it would be difficult to economically operate two small fleets between the 787 and A350.

Ethiopian is likely trying to obtain:

- Better pricing on future 787 orders

- More favorable delivery slots in the 2011-2013 time frame that Boeing might be holding for several of the major carriers evaluating the 787 (LH, BA)
 
A388
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 30):
I seriously doubt that Ethiopian will actually order the A350. This seems very much like a negotiation tactic and nothing more. They are a well run airline and likely know it would be difficult to economically operate two small fleets between the 787 and A350.

Ethiopian is likely trying to obtain:

- Better pricing on future 787 orders

- More favorable delivery slots in the 2011-2013 time frame that Boeing might be holding for several of the major carriers evaluating the 787 (LH, BA)

That's precisely what I meant  Smile

A388
 
ETStar
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RE: Ethiopian May Get 350

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:30 pm

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 8):
IIRC Ethopia is a poor, war-torn, famined country. How are they getting all these brand-new aircraft? And what for? People flee the place, no tourism to speak of really, I just don't get it.

Quite the contrary. Finding a seat into ADD in the last few weeks had been tough, even given the current happenings down in Somalia. I was also surprised to see on my flight into ADD last week on KLM that Ethiopian pax were way outnumbered by European/Americans, and the flight was almost full. You see more foreigners in town, and the tourism industry has been seeing a steady, healthy growth. Ethiopia is a safe country with friendly inhabitants; well-seasoned travellers like its 'untouched' historical areas.

Ethiopian mostly generates its revenue from connecting passengers, while at the same time contributing to make ADD a convenient hub as well as establishing a sound transportation system for the country. The airline has been profitable for years, even during the recent (current?) turmoil in the aviation industry. The airline can only strive to improve itself and do what it's good at to help its impoverished inhabitants [and country].

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 12):

It might not be Thailand, but there is plenty of tourist traffic willing to spend $$$ to see sights such as the Omo Valley, Lalibela, Simien Moutain region, etc

Amazing places to visit I hear... I have only done a small fraction.