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HAWK21M
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A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:34 pm

The Earlier posts on the same topic were archived.
Whats the Latest Information.
Are they Plans to commence Building the A320 Freighter.When & why not until now.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
scouseflyer
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:45 pm

This post News On The A330-200F (by Flying-Tiger Jan 3 2007 in Civil Aviation) mentions the A320F but as I read it only currently a conversion but starting in 2010/11.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:12 pm

Amazing Airbus feels that the Demand for Pax A320s dont permit a A320 Freighter at the moment.
Boeing thought about the B737-700C.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Amazing Airbus feels that the Demand for Pax A320s dont permit a A320 Freighter at the moment.
Boeing thought about the B737-700C.

There is no reason why Airbus cannot build an A-320F, or A-330F, at the same time they build pax models of these airplanes.

Boeing hasn't just thought about the B-737-700C, they are actually building them. The B-737-700C carries the military designation of the C-40A and are being built for the USN.

The real question for the "A-320 Freighter - when?" should be "A-320 Freighter - why?". With the shorter range and lower load carrying capability of the A-320 series, when compared to the B-737NG, why even bother?

Airbus really needs to get their act together and start on the A-330F program.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
Airbus really needs to get their act together and start on the A-330F program

I doesn't sound like it will be long, and from the hints dropped by some reliable posters there may be up to 50 frames worth of orders from launch customers to come when this happens
 
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Stitch
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
With the shorter range and lower load carrying capability of the A-320 series, when compared to the B-737NG, why even bother?

I would think that with transcontinental range (admittedly in a pax version, but hey, that's how the 737NG gets their, too) and the ability to load side-by-side LD3s in the hold (can she do that in the upper deck, too?), an A320 would make at least as good a freighter as the B738-based BJII would (just as the 737-700C is based on the BBJI).
 
jonathan-l
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
Are they Plans to commence Building the A320 Freighter.When & why not until now

The A320-A321 will not be a serial freighter but will be conversion of pax aircraft. This will be done jointly between EADS and Irkut.
A conversion serves the purpose of recycling the aircraft after its pax life and beginning of next decade is when a "significant enough" number of early A320s will be coming out from pax fleets and be at a right price for a freight operation.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
The real question for the "A-320 Freighter - when?" should be "A-320 Freighter - why?". With the shorter range and lower load carrying capability of the A-320 series, when compared to the B-737NG, why even bother?

These small freighters are not used for very long sectors, barring charter operations, anyhow.
Perhaps I am mistaken but I don't believe there are any 737NG commercial freighters. The A320-A321 freighters have equivalent range and more payload than the current 737 freighters, namely 737-300 and 737-400.
Purchasing a new narrowbody freighter is not a solution that commercial air carriers generally select today because of the low utilization / high acquisition costs that this entails. US Navy is different of course.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
the ability to load side-by-side LD3s in the hold (can she do that in the upper deck, too?),

The main deck carries the same ULD as 727-737-757... and only difference will be the number of ULD each aircraft can carry.
On the lower deck, the A320-A321 can carry LD-3-45W, which is an LD-3 but 45in high instead of the standard 64in and that has a "wing" to fit the contour of the aircraft. They fit in a single column.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 6):
The main deck carries the same ULD as 727-737-757... and only difference will be the number of ULD each aircraft can carry.

Thank you.

Quote:
On the lower deck, the A320-A321 can carry LD-3-45W, which is an LD-3 but 45in high instead of the standard 64in and that has a "wing" to fit the contour of the aircraft. They fit in a single column.

Doh! Yes, it would be a neat trick to get two LD3s into a narrowbodies hold, wouldn't it?  footinmouth  That's what I get for posting before I have had my morning coffee. Big grin
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:29 am

They'll get to it if and when they have money left over after this huge mistake called the A380. Besides....why does the industry need an A320F?? Boeing as done a nice job with the 737s.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
MCOflyer
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 8):
Boeing as done a nice job with the 737s

Ture, but what about existing Airbus operators who want to be all airbus. It would make sense to build an A320 freighter.

MCOflyer
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SkyexRamper
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 9):
It would make sense to build an A320 freighter.

I don't think you'll see any carrier devoted to the A320F unless may another A3XX bird is turned into an "F" cause the current airbus frieghters don't have commonality.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
gigneil
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
With the shorter range and lower load carrying capability of the A-320 series, when compared to the B-737NG, why even bother?

Three reasons...

one. Because the range and load carrying capability of the plane is practically identical to its 737 counterparts, as you well know.

two. Because the plane can carry containerized cargo on two, yes, two decks and the 737 cannot.

three. there are a lot of older A320s on the market which can be had for a better price and therefore easily converted.

oh and four, because they can and boeing won't right now.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:50 pm

Out here currently the A320 is outselling B737.Mainly due Marketing.
The Future Cargo market looks great too.
An A320 Freighter will serve its purpose.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jonathan-l
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:00 pm

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 8):
Besides....why does the industry need an A320F?? Boeing as done a nice job with the 737s

Why did Airbus come in the market in the first place back in the 70s? Boeing had done a nice job until then.
The only current commercial 737 freighters are 737-300 and -400. In terms of fuel burn and maintenance costs, A320s and 737NG will do much better.
Gigneil in post above summarizes well the different reasons why airlines would want to convert A320 family aircraft.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 10):
I don't think you'll see any carrier devoted to the A320F unless may another A3XX bird is turned into an "F" cause the current airbus frieghters don't have commonality.

The A300F and the A310F have commonality (1 day training to transfer from one to the other, same fuselage width -> same ULD and configurations).
Granted the A330F is not yet a "current" freighter, but it will have great commonaility with the pax counterpart in terms of maintenance, crew... It's also the same fuselage width as A300-A310 so again same ULD and configurations.
Besides, 737-747-757-767-777 do not boast any more commonality than commonality with pax counterparts, similar flight crews (757-767) and 10ft high capability (747-777).

Please bear in mind that the A320F will be a passenger to freighter conversion, not a serial freighter.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 6):
Perhaps I am mistaken but I don't believe there are any 737NG commercial freighters.

There is the USN C-40A, which Boeing is also marketing as the B-737-700C (I do not recall them selling any to commerical operators, but I could be wrong). Agreed, it is really a combi aircraft and not truely a dedicated freighter. But, of all the currently marketed B-737NG/A-320 series, it is the only model marketed as either a "C" or "F" model.
 
sjot
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:46 am

didn't TAAG just get a bunch of 737-700Cs?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 13):
Please bear in mind that the A320F will be a passenger to freighter conversion, not a serial freighter.

Why does Airbus not consider a A320F rather than a A320SF.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jonathan-l
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RE: A320 Freighter - When

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:24 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Why does Airbus not consider a A320F rather than a A320SF.

The purchase of a new small freighter is not something that will get cargo carriers excited: it's expensive, especially with regards to the generally low utilization of the aircraft. With a small freighter, there are few airlines that will get a significant amount of hours that will justify such high acquisition costs at the outset.
Add to that the fact that there will always be conversions of the equivalent pax model: the conversion may have higher operating costs but the MUCH lower acquisition costs still make it very competitive.
So there will be a few airlines that could justify the purchase of a new aircraft but "a few" is generally not enough for the manufacturer. In the end, the manufacturer weighs the costs and potential profits and sets out or not to design the aircraft.

The story is much different for widebodies as the utilization you can get out of a widebody freighter can be equivalent to the utilization of the pax aircraft. Therefore a widebody serial freighter can make economical sense.

Just for completion: the conversions of Airbus aircraft are P2F (Passenger to freighter). SF (Special freighters) applies to Boeing conversions performed by third party (STC is not Boeing), BCF (Boeing conversion freighter) is a Boeing-endorsed conversion (although the work is not all carried out by Boeing).

[Edited 2007-01-11 09:29:24]