LAXDESI
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Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:00 pm

Quotes:
Jet Airways Ltd., India's biggest domestic airline, said it will expand its international operations with new flights to Bangkok in late January and flights to the United States late this year.

Jet Airways said on Tuesday it plans to launch a regular U.S. service in August, flying to Newark, New Jersey, and to San Francisco via Shanghai in October, executives said.

The airline will use eight new Boeing 777s and five Airbus 330s, already ordered, on its international routes this year on top of six Boeing 737s for its Indian domestic service, chairman Naresh Goyal told reporters.

"Our international operations will grow to account for about 50 percent of our total revenues in a few years," Goyal said, announcing Jet Airways' 14 weekly flights between Bangkok, Delhi and Kolkata.


http://www.ndtvprofit.com/homepage/news.asp?id=282848
 
manny
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
Jet Airways said on Tuesday it plans to launch a regular U.S. service in August, flying to Newark, New Jersey, and to San Francisco via Shanghai in October, executives said.

Me thinks they will make a killing. The India-PVG-SFO route will make them a lot of dough.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting Manny (Reply 1):
The India-PVG-SFO route will make them a lot of dough.

Does the India-US bilateral allow for local traffic between China and the USA?
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:26 pm

I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?
 
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legacyins
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3):
I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?

As much as I may get blasted for this, the world does not revolve around LAX and JFK and there are other potential markets outside LAX and JFK. SFO has no Indian carriers and there is a market to be tapped. There could be a possibility that in two years there will be three Indian carriers serving SFO ie: Air India, Kingfisher and Jet Airways.
 
jlk
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:04 pm

That is fantastic news. I hope 9W provides connections to south indian cities from the Mumbai international terminal without having to go thru customs and immigration in BOM. I guess this would be the fastest route to BOM from the west-coast barring EVA's SFO-TPE-BOM (maybe)

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3):
I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?

Duh.. the two most populated desi cities (including the SJ bay area) separated by the largest distance.
 
Nimish
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Great news for 9W - hopefully they'll have convenient connections at both end enabling say a BOM-SFO-LAS type sector or BLR-BOM-SFO and return.

And maybe it's time for 9W to start thinking of joining one of the global alliances?
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3):
SFO were picked instead of LAX

to avoid head-to-head with AI's BOM-FRA-LAX?

and serve Silicon Valley?

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):
9W to start thinking of joining one of the global alliances

Don't they have operational support from LH? Conjecture that Star might be the natural way for them to go...
 
mandargb
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:25 pm

Last month's (December, 2006) (I don't remember which week though) issue of Aviation Week has a bit of news on this matter.
1] US DOT has cleared 9W to start flights to US. And they plan to start New York (I dont remember JFK or EWR) and SFO flight later in 2007.
2] AI to join star (as 21st member) after their merger with Indian in April.

Now Jet and AI have both made into news for years (AI for a decade now) that they are starting service to SFO.
Lets wait and watch if they really do. Or it gets slippery in the red tape in either country or even within the airlines themselves.

By the way how far behind is KingFisher in this race? anybody knows ?
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:36 pm

Quoting Mandargb (Reply 8):
By the way how far behind is KingFisher in this race? anybody knows ?

Kingfisher needs to complete five years of domestic flying before they can fly international. However, it is expected that this rule may be relaxed to three years, which will make Kingfisher eligible to fly international in 2008.
 
Nimish
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:47 pm

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 7):
Don't they have operational support from LH? Conjecture that Star might be the natural way for them to go...

While that would be logical for both *A and 9W, unfortunately *A has been wooing AI/IC for the past few years, and now they seem to be close to formally joining *A. Which then means it's close to impossible to get 9W in as well.
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):

And maybe it's time for 9W to start thinking of joining one of the global alliances?

not at this stage , at least according to the quote below


http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/10Jan2007_biz48.php

Jet Airways, India's largest private airline, has formed a commercial partnership with Thai Airways International as part of its strategy to expand its operations with international carriers on a bilateral basis. The Mumbai-based carrier has opted for bilateral arrangements rather than joining global airline alliances such as Star Alliance, Oneworld or Skyteam, which entail complications such as adopting common operation systems.

In addition to THAI, Jet has struck earlier deals with Lufthansa and British Airways.

''We are not joining any alliance at this time because we are new. We will have bilateral relationships with different countries,'' Jet chairman Naresh Goyal said in an interview in Bangkok yesterday.


in reality I expect that they are talking to everyone and waiting to see who offers the most favourable terms  Wink
 
manny
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
Does the India-US bilateral allow for local traffic between China and the USA?

The India China aviation pact was revised in 2005.

Link:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...04/12/stories/2005041202810300.htm

Excerpt:
The civil aviation agreement seeks to increase the flight frequencies of designated airlines of each side to 14 per week on the IATA summer season of 2005, that would go up to 28 flights during the winter season and to 42 flights during the summer season of 2006. At present, each side operates seven flights a week.

The two sides would also adopt 'open skies' policy for cargo with unlimited capacity entitlement for dedicated cargo services.

Agreement has also been reached to simplify visa procedures for operating and cabin crew and employment of foreign pilots by the designated airlines of either side. The airlines would also be allowed to dry lease aircraft for both combination services and cargo sharing services.

Under the MoU, designated airlines of both parties are entitled to have unlimited third, fourth and fifth freedom traffic rights while they can co-terminalise any two points in its own territory and/or any two points in the territory of the other party without a cabotage rights with the exception for airlines designated by India to combine Beijing and Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, Shanghai and Guangzhaou.
 
Concorde001
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
in reality I expect that they are talking to everyone and waiting to see who offers the most favourable terms

With the newly merged AI and IC set to join Star Alliance, would it be reasonable to assume that Jet will therefore either joing Skyteam or oneworld?
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:53 am

It's great to see a new carrier coming to SFO. The Silicn Valley will greatly benefit from this service, and as mentioned above, will most likely bring in a lot money for Jet Airways.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 3):
I wonder why EWR and SFO were picked instead of LAX and JFK?

Why not? LAX and JFK are not the only main airports in the US. And serving SFO will probably be more beneficial for Jet than serving LAX which has competition. It's only common sense.

Aeroflot777
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 13):
With the newly merged AI and IC set to join Star Alliance, would it be reasonable to assume that Jet will therefore either joing Skyteam or oneworld?

from all the reports I have read "unnamed sources" at AI said that they would be announcing last month that AI would join Star - if it was announced I missed it - certainly Star haven't said anything ...... yet
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:18 am

As I think of it more, can I just say that BOM-PVG-SFO has to be one of the more brilliant routings announced of late? I mean, it just smells Rupees!

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:26 am

What happened to the Toronto announcement? Wasn't it was supposed to be two routes?
BOM-HKG-YYZ and DEL-DUS-YYZ

Cheers,
Kaz
 
comorin
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16):
As I think of it more, can I just say that BOM-PVG-SFO has to be one of the more brilliant routings announced of late? I mean, it just smells Rupees!

 checkmark 

9W should do BOM-PVG-SFO-EWR-BOM both ways, and become the new PanAm  Smile
 
jlk
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Manny (Reply 12):
Under the MoU, designated airlines of both parties are entitled to have unlimited third, fourth and fifth freedom traffic rights while they can co-terminalise any two points in its own territory and/or any two points in the territory of the other party without a cabotage rights with the exception for airlines designated by India to combine Beijing and Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, Shanghai and Guangzhaou.

With United winning the dogfight for the PEK-US market, I wonder whether 9W or AI would try to exploit their fifth freedom rights from PEK to the US like a DEL-PEK-LAX route given that 9W would start BOM-PVG-SFO.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16):
As I think of it more, can I just say that BOM-PVG-SFO has to be one of the more brilliant routings announced of late? I mean, it just smells Rupees!

I also wonder why the Chinese carriers haven't jumped on this China-India route with connections to the US? A BLR-PVG-SFO route would be an instant success.
 
stevens91
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:41 am

Will EWR be via BRU ???
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting Stevens91 (Reply 21):
Will EWR be via BRU ???

= I think so. Really refreshing to see some new city pairs being linked by 9W. In the pipeline are supposedly BRU-EWR, DUS-YYZ, BOM-BRU, PVG-SFO, HKG-YYZ. Exciting times.

-A.

[Edited 2007-01-10 21:48:22]
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting Jlk (Reply 20):
A BLR-PVG-SFO route would be an instant success.

= Not enough connecting traffic on BLR-PVG? Also, I view BLR as being high-yielding travellers with FFP miles in their eyes. An MU connection would not help vs. LH, SQ, AF, and the like.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Comorin (Reply 18):
9W should do BOM-PVG-SFO-EWR-BOM both ways, and become the new PanAm

= What? Model yourself along an airline that failed  Smile! They are supposedly doing RTW with their DEL-DUS-YYZ-HKG-DEL flight no?

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
pnqiad
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Comorin (Reply 18):
9W should do BOM-PVG-SFO-EWR-BOM both ways, and become the new PanAm

They would not be able to issue tix. on SFO-EWR. A long leg to be wasted without traffic rights. It they could do a SFO-Europe leg instead - that would be an awesome RTW flight.
 
manny
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting Jlk (Reply 20):
I wonder whether 9W or AI would try to exploit their fifth freedom rights from PEK to the US like a DEL-PEK-LAX route given that 9W would start BOM-PVG-SFO.

Indian carriers are poised to take advantage of the strong Chinese-US market. They can even have a scissors network through either PVG, PEK. For example, 9W could have a DEL-PVG-LAX & BOM-PVG-SFO flight with passengers transferring at PVG.

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 25):
They would not be able to issue tix. on SFO-EWR. A long leg to be wasted without traffic rights

You are right. The India-US aviation pact grants no cabotage rights.
 
blrBird
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 17):
BOM-HKG-YYZ

This will have to wait till new ASA is signed with HK government, with current rights they cant do this.
from star dust....
 
stevens91
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:55 am

Why no USA-India direct flights ?
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting Stevens91 (Reply 28):
Why no USA-India direct flights ?

= Um, DL JFK-BOM, CO EWR-DEL, and AA ORD-DEL.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In Octobe

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 4):
There could be a possibility that in two years there will be three Indian carriers serving SFO ie: Air India, Kingfisher and Jet Airways.

With what happen to their LAX route, and Jet Air getting to SFO before them, I doubt AI would even have the guts to start BOM/DEL-SFO.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
Why not? LAX and JFK are not the only main airports in the US. And serving SFO will probably be more beneficial for Jet than serving LAX which has competition. It's only common sense.

SFO has as much competition to India as Los Angeles. CX, BA, LH, AF, SQ all serve SFO and LAX and all take passengers from the USA to India. LAX however has the addition of Air India. But are you kidding me? You think the horrid service of AI is enough to scare Jet Airways from LAX??? That is not the case. LAX is likely to follow SFO and EWR. In addition, ORD and IAH are further possibilities in my opinion.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 29):
Quoting Stevens91 (Reply 28):
Why no USA-India direct flights ?

= Um, DL JFK-BOM, CO EWR-DEL, and AA ORD-DEL.

He was referring to the fact that Jet Airways, and no other Indian airline, is doing USA-India non-stop.

AI will soon do USA-India non-stop with their new fleet.
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In Octobe

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):

He was referring to the fact that Jet Airways, and no other Indian airline, is doing USA-India non-stop.

AI will soon do USA-India non-stop with their new fleet.

Neither 9W nor AI is doing USA-India non-stop.
They both will be starting later this year, but AI will beat 9W to the punch as their non-stops start tentatively in April 07.  Smile

Cheers,
Kaz
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
LAX however has the addition of Air India.

I believe to DEL only as they dropped the BOM flight.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 31):
Neither 9W nor AI is doing USA-India non-stop.
They both will be starting later this year, but AI will beat 9W to the punch as their non-stops start tentatively in April 07. Smile

That is what I said? I think my wording was bad. Sorry.  Smile

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 31):
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
LAX however has the addition of Air India.

I believe to DEL only as they dropped the BOM flight.

Isn't it 3x weekly 747-400M LAX-FRA-DEL-BOM and 4x weekly 747-400 LAX-FRA-BOM?
 
SLCNate
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In Octobe

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 33):
Isn't it 3x weekly 747-400M LAX-FRA-DEL-BOM and 4x weekly 747-400 LAX-FRA-BOM?

Nope. LAX-FRA-DEL is only on Mon, Wed, and Sat and the same flight going to BOM on Wed. BOM was dropped in August due to combination of load factor / equipment availability / VVIP's trip / bad luck etc. etc... I was affected by this change last december and had to fly SQ after cancelling my AI ticket. I also read in other forum that only one equipment is rotated for this segment everytime.

Nate
 
kaitak744
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:58 am

Wow, I never knew it is down to 3x weekly. Thanks for the info.

Quoting SLCNate (Reply 34):
I also read in other forum that only one equipment is rotated for this segment everytime.

VT-AIM. Air India's only 747-400M.
 
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legacyins
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
With what happen to their LAX route, and Jet Air getting to SFO before them, I doubt AI would even have the guts to start BOM/DEL-SFO.

I believe AI will start service into SFO but as a non-stop route and not as a 1 stop as Jet is proposing. Boeing did a demo non-stop flight from BOM-SFO on a 777LR to show AI the aircraft has the range. AI is dragging their feet though. They had been talking about SFO service for over five years now. As with every airline, don't beieve it until you see their wheels touch down.
 
MERLIN
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:34 pm

Good news..Jet and AI head to head.Good to hear more and more sectors coming up.

Great competition between these two.Eagarly waiting for the arrival of AI 777's.
"Aviation & Black hole carry same effect,once any where near it you're bound to get sucked in".
 
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airzim
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16):
As I think of it more, can I just say that BOM-PVG-SFO has to be one of the more brilliant routings announced of late? I mean, it just smells Rupees!

Cheers,
A.

and this site continues to demonstrate that nobody has ever worked in route planning and has absolutely no idea how network management works. This flight will never make money.

Quoting Manny (Reply 26):
Quoting Jlk (Reply 20):
I wonder whether 9W or AI would try to exploit their fifth freedom rights from PEK to the US like a DEL-PEK-LAX route given that 9W would start BOM-PVG-SFO.

Indian carriers are poised to take advantage of the strong Chinese-US market. They can even have a scissors network through either PVG, PEK. For example, 9W could have a DEL-PVG-LAX & BOM-PVG-SFO flight with passengers transferring at PVG.

So based on your brilliant logic, if 9W "takes advantage" of the strong Chinese-US market, please share with us how they plan on filling the plane with the non-existent Shanghai-India market?

The only way they'll fill this plane is with SFO-India traffic. The PVG stop is an unnecessary tech stop, but only adds costs with no real revenue potential except in the cargo market.
 
AKLDELNonstop
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting Airzim (Reply 38):

So based on your brilliant logic, if 9W "takes advantage" of the strong Chinese-US market, please share with us how they plan on filling the plane with the non-existent Shanghai-India market?

Mate, please do a bit of background research before posting. This flight will make money because:

a) SFO-India traffic
b) PVG-SFO traffic
c) BOM-PVG, which is underserved and ever increasing.

Cheers
 
karan69
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Airzim (Reply 38):
this site continues to demonstrate that nobody has ever worked in route planning and has absolutely no idea how network management works. This flight will never make money.

And why do you make such a "logical" conclusion please care to explain us your logic.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 38):
The PVG stop is an unnecessary tech stop, but only adds costs with no real revenue potential except in the cargo market.

Have you seen how much cargo potential alone is there between these two markets trust me their belly will always go full.

Karan
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):
= I think so. Really refreshing to see some new city pairs being linked by 9W. In the pipeline are supposedly BRU-EWR, DUS-YYZ, BOM-BRU, PVG-SFO, HKG-YYZ. Exciting times.

What about ORD?
 
himmat01
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting Airzim (Reply 38):

So based on your brilliant logic, if 9W "takes advantage" of the strong Chinese-US market, please share with us how they plan on filling the plane with the non-existent Shanghai-India market?

What makes you reach this conclusion. Trade between India and China is very high and is likely to grow at a very high rate. As Karan has mentioned, the belly space would be full.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:57 pm

I still cant understand economically: why would 9W stop on its way from BOM to either YYZ or EWR since they have the frame to fly these routes non-stop (77W !!).

Or is it a real will to serve BRU and DUS ?

Can someone help me out on this ???

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
ryu2
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:48 pm

The SFO-PVG flight on UA *ALWAYS* is full, even in F and C... any additional PVG flight will have no trouble.
 
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airzim
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 39):
Mate, please do a bit of background research before posting. This flight will make money because:

a) SFO-India traffic
b) PVG-SFO traffic
c) BOM-PVG, which is underserved and ever increasing.

Cheers

And you proven exactly what? What laughable analysis.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 40):
And why do you make such a "logical" conclusion please care to explain us your logic.

You're all asking me to prove why this flight wouldn't work but I've seen nothing on here that proves that it will. Except the Cargo component, but I'm still wary of the amount of cargo traffic between India and China and v.v.

Plus just like pax demand, full bellies does not profit make.

Rather than acting like giddy school girls who like drawing lines all over the map and making huge assumptions that, "well if China is a big market then the flights have to make money." Ever read one of Worldtravlers posts concerning Delta and you'll get my drift.

Let's take the fanciful SFO-PVG market that is supposedly so lucrative. You have a fixed capacity, you fill up the flights with that theoretical high yield traffic, you land in Shanghai and they all get off. Who's going to fill the seats between PVG-India? Same scenario is true with cargo, which is highly directional so the plane is likely to be empty flying over to Asia and full on the way back.

Let's say you then decide it doesn't make any sense to fly an empty plane between PVG and India so you sell only SFO-India tickets. Fine, similar to the Air India flights from the US to India via Europe. But then the stop becomes unnecessary and costly.

Contrary to what everyone believes on this site based on little to no analysis, US to China flights aren't that lucrative. The front cabin carries the whole flight. The economy section is low yield consolidator junk. The airlines are all vying from China flights on the hope that some day they make money on them. So they're sucking it up now.
 
jaysit
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RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 45):
Except the Cargo component, but I'm still wary of the amount of cargo traffic between India and China and v.v.

With trade increasing between India and China at nearly 30% annually (to make up for all those years of Indo-Sino frostiness), the bellies of Asian airlines like CX and TG and AI are always full both ways. Have you not been following the news?

Quoting Airzim (Reply 45):
Who's going to fill the seats between PVG-India?

The same business travellers who fill AI's 4 weekly milk runs between India and PVG, who will now have a better alternative than AI's rickety and dirty A310s.

With due apologies to your skepticism, I'm sure that Naresh Goyal and his bean counters have gauged this market before jumping into it. And as far as PVG-SFO goes, what choices do passengers have? Lousy Chinese carriers and United (probably worse than any lousy Chinese carrier). If Jet promotes itself as a topnotch service oriented carrier like SQ (which it undoubtedly is), it could do very well. It may take time for brand name recognition, but then even SQ didn't build its loyal fan following overnight.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
sshank
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:58 am

RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:58 am

All true - but even with good service they need to be part of an alliance to fill the front of the plane. While UA is indeed a lousy carrier when compared to the top tier of airlines, the fact that they have a generous FFP and a fabulous route network will ensure that all 9W will end up picking up on this route will be the low end VFR traffic just like they do on the BOM-LHR route.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 45):
With due apologies to your skepticism, I'm sure that Naresh Goyal and his bean counters have gauged this market before jumping into it. And as far as PVG-SFO goes, what choices do passengers have? Lousy Chinese carriers and United (probably worse than any lousy Chinese carrier). If Jet promotes itself as a topnotch service oriented carrier like SQ (which it undoubtedly is), it could do very well. It may take time for brand name recognition, but then even SQ didn't build its loyal fan following overnight.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 44):
Quoting AKLDELNonstop (Reply 39):
Mate, please do a bit of background research before posting. This flight will make money because:

a) SFO-India traffic
b) PVG-SFO traffic
c) BOM-PVG, which is underserved and ever increasing.

Cheers

And you proven exactly what? What laughable analysis.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 40):
And why do you make such a "logical" conclusion please care to explain us your logic.

You're all asking me to prove why this flight wouldn't work but I've seen nothing on here that proves that it will. Except the Cargo component, but I'm still wary of the amount of cargo traffic between India and China and v.v.

Plus just like pax demand, full bellies does not profit make.

Rather than acting like giddy school girls who like drawing lines all over the map and making huge assumptions that, "well if China is a big market then the flights have to make money." Ever read one of Worldtravlers posts concerning Delta and you'll get my drift.

Let's take the fanciful SFO-PVG market that is supposedly so lucrative. You have a fixed capacity, you fill up the flights with that theoretical high yield traffic, you land in Shanghai and they all get off. Who's going to fill the seats between PVG-India? Same scenario is true with cargo, which is highly directional so the plane is likely to be empty flying over to Asia and full on the way back.

Let's say you then decide it doesn't make any sense to fly an empty plane between PVG and India so you sell only SFO-India tickets. Fine, similar to the Air India flights from the US to India via Europe. But then the stop becomes unnecessary and costly.

Contrary to what everyone believes on this site based on little to no analysis, US to China flights aren't that lucrative. The front cabin carries the whole flight. The economy section is low yield consolidator junk. The airlines are all vying from China flights on the hope that some day they make money on them. So they're sucking it up now.

= While you mock others, I do not see you to have put forward one verifiable data source which indicates a lack of premium demand on BOM-PVG. Without your data itself, your posts seems immensely childish as well.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting Sshank (Reply 46):
All true - but even with good service they need to be part of an alliance to fill the front of the plane. While UA is indeed a lousy carrier when compared to the top tier of airlines, the fact that they have a generous FFP and a fabulous route network will ensure that all 9W will end up picking up on this route will be the low end VFR traffic just like they do on the BOM-LHR route.

= ... and yet, EK, EY, and QR have been successful.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
LY777
Posts: 2269
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Jet Airways To Newark In August, SFO In October

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:39 am

Wow!!!Jet Airways is really expanding dramatically!!!
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L