LipeGIG
Topic Author
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First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:42 pm

Brazilian Ocean Air, owned by Mr. Efromovich, also the owner of AV, will receive very shortly their first 767-300ER.

It's the C/N 25280, ex-VT-SDL and N645UA, and will be delivered to Ocean Air probably by January 09 or 10 thru the route DEL-SNN-MZJ to be prepared. Brazilian registration not known yet.

Ocean Air has plans to run a GIG-GRU-BOG-LAX flight as well as GRU-GIG-SSA-LAD/LOS, and GRU-JNB with a fleet of 6 Boeing 767-300ER. Also, they keep plans for LIM, in this case using probably a Boeing 757-200.

No date given yet for their first international flights, but it's nice to see more widebodies coming to Brazil and also to South America. It's seems that the first flight will be on LAX route but this is unconfirmed !

Some pics of their first 763:



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Photo © Terry Nash - Cactus Wings




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Photo © Youri Thonon - Contrails Aviation Photography




Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:51 pm

Just to complete:

This is Ocean Air domestic network:



Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:25 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):

Ocean Air has plans to run a GIG-GRU-BOG-LAX flight as well as GRU-GIG-SSA-LAD/LOS, and GRU-JNB with a fleet of 6 Boeing 767-300ER.

why would they pick those routes instead of the ones with more demand left by Varig? MIA always needs additional lift and even MCO would have more demand than LAD or LOS
 
EMB195ER
Posts: 253
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
why would they pick those routes instead of the ones with more demand left by Varig?

The explanation is: COMPETITION

They are going for routes where they will face little if none competition, Xkorpyoh.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 3):
Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
why would they pick those routes instead of the ones with more demand left by Varig?

The explanation is: COMPETITION

They are going for routes where they will face little if none competition, Xkorpyoh.

Right, and they are looking for some synergy with AV. I agree that JNB will be worst then just fly to MIA, but there is some comments here, the bilateral does not allow more than 2 airlines flying from the same city, and JJ & RG keep the rights for MIA (this is why probably even Gol will need to run FLL or MCO in the future if they confirm their desire to fly to the US from MAO)

LOS keep a very strong cargo demand, and some oil demand. I agree also LOS is a new market and keep risks, and also LAD, well served by TAAG and very soon with a better plane (772).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
EMB195ER
Posts: 253
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:07 am

If OceanAir wants to become a major player in the Brazilian/Latin America I think they should make a series of improvements before start flying abroad:

01 - Create a loyalty program or associate to Avianca program
02 - Become a IATA member
03 - Improve their website


Claudio
 
RICARIZA
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 5):
If OceanAir wants to become a major player in the Brazilian/Latin America I think they should make a series of improvements before start flying abroad:

01 - Create a loyalty program or associate to Avianca program
02 - Become a IATA member
03 - Improve their website

Well, they are suppose to become "Avianca" in the first quarter of this year, based on comments by Efromovich... that will sort almost all things out...
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
RICARIZA
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:37 am

One last thing. If OceanAir keeps its act together in Brazil, continue its improvements, once it became AV, I think it leaves this new AV with good possibilities for Star Alliance, don't you think?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 7):
One last thing. If OceanAir keeps its act together in Brazil, continue its improvements, once it became AV, I think it leaves this new AV with good possibilities for Star Alliance, don't you think?

Could be Ricariza, Star could see AV as the strong player they need now as RG probably will take a little longer to re-build a more complete network.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
md90fan
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 3):
They are going for routes where they will face little if none competition

Well for one I would take TAAGs 777-200/ER or SAAs A340-600 over some relatively new carrier and their old (usually nasty) Boeing 767-300/ER.  Smile

Cheers
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
over some relatively new carrier and their old (usually nasty) Boeing 767-300/ER.

AV's 767's are in good condition based on some recent TR's.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Summa767
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
Star could see AV as the strong player they need now as RG probably will take a little longer to re-build a more complete network

But you could have both!
I do think that AV/OceanAir have potential, and a big global alliance might be interested, but I insist that an alliance Varig with AV/Oceanair should bring important benefits to both, in Brasil and the rest of South America. With Varig recovering its main destinations, domestic, in the America's and Europe, and with OceanAir's smaller destinations and its African ambitions, complemented by AV's network -and its increasing growth and further European ambitions.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
AV's 767's are in good condition based on some recent TR's

You are right! MCOflyer





I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
MCOflyer
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:42 am

Thank you RICARIZA. I would fly AV anytime. I like the airline and know Mr. Efromovich would never let the interiors be horrible anytime.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 11):
But you could have both!

You're right. Both have complimentary networks, Varig will be strong again in Brazil and mainly in the south, while Avianca could be the player for the Andean and North South Atlantic. Will be even stronger than in the past.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 12):
You are right! MCOflyer

And the comments from Brazilian customers are also very good about AV service!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
And the comments from Brazilian customers are also very good about AV service!

Correct. Brazilian pax have very positive comments about both AV and OceanAir. In fact, OceanAir is emerging as the "best" domestic airline in Brazil in terms of aspects such as onboard food, seat layout, etc.

Rgs,
 
AMSSFO
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
LOS keep a very strong cargo demand, and some oil demand. I agree also LOS is a new market and keep risks, and also LAD, well served by TAAG and very soon with a better plane (772).

Synergy also invests in the Nigerian airline Capital Airline, which flies between Abuja, Benin City, Enugu and Lagos with EMB120:
http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpage.../31/ceomagazine-31-07-2006-001.htm
Foreign investors
Yes. We have technical partners from Brazil. They�ve been here twice. The leader of the team has met with our own Chairman, Chief Tony Eze, they�ve spoken and seen where they can assist in bringing in their wealth of experience like experts, spare parts, aircraft, to come and inject into Capital Air. I tell you, this airline is going to be big because the investor company has four types of airlines. He�s running Ocean Air, Aviance and others. He�s also into oil and gas and I know that the investment he�s bringing here, the sky is the limit. The man is Engr German Efromovich and he�s been to Benin. He�s been to the hanger there to see how he can get the hanger space. He�s talking to the owner of the hanger and they�re in good discussions right now and the owners of the hanger are ready to either lease or seek outright sell, so that they can come and create a maintenance facility, apart from bringing in more aircraft.


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Photo © Captain Akinwale Makinde

 
hardiwv
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:50 pm

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 16):
Synergy also invests in the Nigerian airline Capital Airline, which flies between Abuja, Benin City, Enugu and Lagos with EMB120:

Tks for the info, and this explains why Ocean Air plans to start GRU-LOS flights this year with B767.

Rgs,
 
MCOflyer
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
MIA always needs additional lift and even MCO would have more demand than LAD or LOS

I agree as I see that customers connect on flights to S America from MCO on AA's flights to MIA. If OceanAir were to do MCO, 5x weekly would work just fine, but a daily flight is required for MIA ops.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
777jaah
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
And the comments from Brazilian customers are also very good about AV service!

AV has improved a lot in the last few years, not only domestic but international routes also, but most important, they've become a very reliable airline. With the integration between AV and Oceanair, you can cover the Brazilian market and all the southamerican market too.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 18):
If OceanAir were to do MCO, 5x weekly would work just fine, but a daily flight is required for MIA ops.

Wasn't problems with binational rights or something like that, now that RG is serving the route again and that's why Oceainair don't have a chance?? Maybe LipeGIG can enlight me on this issue.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Avianca
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:37 am

heard Ocean Air has seriuos plans to star GRU-CCS-GRU flights with 767-300 this year... any more information on this ?

Well even if Varig has already a daily 767-300 on this route, I can imagine that that a Ocean Air flight could be worked very well, the increase of the Venezuelean and Braziliean trate is increasing with big numbers, thank you to the beloved Presidents of both countrys...

also cargo loads would help to make the flight profitable....

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:42 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Right, and they are looking for some synergy with AV. I agree that JNB will be worst then just fly to MIA, but there is some comments here, the bilateral does not allow more than 2 airlines flying from the same city, and JJ & RG keep the rights for MIA (this is why probably even Gol will need to run FLL or MCO in the future if they confirm their desire to fly to the US from MAO)

If that is the case, how is that three airlines - TAM, Varig, and TransBrasil or Varig, TransBrasil, and VASP - flew MIA-GRU at the same time for ages.
a.
 
hardiwv
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
If that is the case, how is that three airlines - TAM, Varig, and TransBrasil or Varig, TransBrasil, and VASP - flew MIA-GRU at the same time for ages.

TR operated flights to MCO for a while, but I have to agree with you that GOL will enter the US market via MIA. MIA has the profile of GOL pax, which is a very healthy mix of business and leisure. There is no reason why to think that GOL would go to the "second best" option.

Rgs,
 
MAH4546
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 22):

TR operated flights to MCO for a while, but I have to agree with you that GOL will enter the US market via MIA. MIA has the profile of GOL pax, which is a very healthy mix of business and leisure. There is no reason why to think that GOL would go to the "second best" option.

Yes, TR did fly to MCO. What I was pointing out was that at throughout most of the 1990s and until early 2001, there were three airlines on the MIA-GRU route, so I don't understand where the rule that only two Brazilian airlines can fly to any US city comes in. There is no doubt in my mind that when GOL comes to the US they will fly to Miami, most likley from Manaus or Belem. The thought that they would fly to Ft. Lauderdale is laughable.
a.
 
hardiwv
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
There is no doubt in my mind that when GOL comes to the US they will fly to Miami, most likley from Manaus or Belem. The thought that they would fly to Ft. Lauderdale is laughable.

Agree 100%.

GOL most likely would operate MAO-MIA daily, in my view BSB-MAO-MIA comes as another option.

Rgs,
 
Brasuca
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Yes, TR did fly to MCO. What I was pointing out was that at throughout most of the 1990s and until early 2001, there were three airlines on the MIA-GRU route, so I don't understand where the rule that only two Brazilian airlines can fly to any US city comes in.

There were talks about it before. It's been said that there are four US carriers flying to Brazil because there's been four Brazilian flying to the US before. So, if a fifth US carrier wants to fly to Brazil, a fifth Brazilian should join Brazilian group to pair it, i.e., the number of companies of each country must have once matched.
So, I believe that RG, JJ, TR and VP have all flown simultaneously to the US. However, not sure about restrictions applied to one particular route regarding the number of airlines flying it.
I think LipeGIG can clarify it.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
Neo
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 25):
So, I believe that RG, JJ, TR and VP have all flown simultaneously to the US. However, not sure about restrictions applied to one particular route regarding the number of airlines flying it.
I think LipeGIG can clarify it.

No, TR was already gone when JJ was flying into MIA. Only, VP-RG-JJ or TR-VP-RG have flown simultaneously to MIA.

Rgs

Neo
 
MAH4546
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting Neo (Reply 26):

No, TR was already gone when JJ was flying into MIA. Only, VP-RG-JJ or TR-VP-RG have flown simultaneously to MIA.

No, not at all. TransBrasil was flying MIA-GRU until around December 2001.
a.
 
donzilasse
Posts: 206
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:04 am

If not possible to fly on MIA I do not think that FLL is a bad option. Hotels at Miami Beach are equally easy to access and time for transfer is not a major difference. FLL use to have have more international traffic besides the Bahamas. Air Jamaica, Icelandair and Tower comes to my mind. With the expansion of FLL it might be a decent alternative for GOL as well.

Lasse
 
incitatus
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
The thought that they would fly to Ft. Lauderdale is laughable.

I mentioned that and it is very possible:

A greater share of the population of South Florida is closer to FLL than to MIA

The two airports are only 25 miles apart - driving distance.

There is a large number of businesses and legal Brazilian residents to whom FLL closer to.

Domestic airlines such as Jet Blue and Southwest have shown it is possible to be successful in South Florida serving FLL but not MIA. Pompano Beach is north of FLL and not made of undocumented aliens only.

So, go ahead and share your infinite but rude wisdom on why that is laughable. Give us some real hard facts instead of the "I don't think it works".

And don't get me started about Belem... Have you actually been there? Belem is not 25 mi driving distance from Manaus.
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RICARIZA
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 28):
FLL use to have have more international traffic besides the Bahamas. Air Jamaica, Icelandair and Tower comes to my mind

AV has been succesful with its daily fight BOG-FLL

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 29):
There is a large number of businesses and legal Brazilian residents to whom FLL closer to

Yes, in Pompano Beach..

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 29):
Pompano Beach is north of FLL and not made of undocumented aliens only

You said it. It is the second concentration of Brazilians in the US after Boston.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
miamix707
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:08 am

I read somewhere Oceanair might use a different paintscheme than Avianca (that'd be wonderful if true)

I thought the full-color schemes on the EMB-120 and DASH-7 aircraft were really distinctive. The new Avianca c/s they adopted are rather boring in comparison. Good thing if they can differenciate the 2 brands.

Quoting Neo (Reply 26):
No, TR was already gone when JJ was flying into MIA

Not really Neo. Transbrasil stopped MIA/MCO in the summer of '01 while TAM had been flying to MIA since 1998.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 29):
So, go ahead and share your infinite but rude wisdom on why that is laughable. Give us some real hard facts instead of the "I don't think it works".

Hard facts? That's simple. Name successful attempts to start inter-continental service out of Ft. Lauderdale. The answer? One (of dozens): Avianca. And Avianca's FLL flights does well because they offer cheap fares.
a.
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Avianca. And Avianca's FLL flights does well because they offer cheap fares

What?? The fares are the same than those from MIA
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 33):

What?? The fares are the same than those from MIA

You will obviously be able to sometimes find identical fares, but no, on average, they are not. The average FLL-BOG fare is lower than the average MIA-BOG fare, and a lot of the FLL traffic is connecting to Ecuador and Peru. This has been discussed many times on these boards.

[Edited 2007-01-23 22:14:34]
a.
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
This has been discussed many times on these boards.

First time I read about this and I haven't seen a lower fare from FLL than MIA in AV yet.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 35):
First time I read about this and I haven't seen a lower fare from FLL than MIA in AV yet.

And from Colombia, there's NO diffrence at all. Many colombians prefer that flight for many reasons. For example, inmigration is way smoother in FLL than in MIA, and if you are going to highly colombian populated areas like Weston, FLL is a better alternative than MIA. If it works for AV, I can't find a reason why not would work for Oceanair.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:11 am

After VP and TR begin international operations, they decided to run MIA, MCO, JFK and some other US destinations. For Brazilian DAC (Civil Aviation Dept.), just after VP returned all M11 and many other planes (as well as TR dropped it's international flights also), was clear that the tremendous increase in flights US-Brazil during the 90's was driven by the favorable exchange rate (BRL become R$ 0,80/US$ 1,00) and was also clear that this extra flights produced a major financial problem for all airlines.
During the last revision of the bilateral was decided that no one city could be operated by more than 2 airlines (double designation) from each country in order to prevent financial disruption in the future.
Now, Gol should try to change this in order to fly probably to the profitable MIA market, but AFAIK, the decision also obligate Ocean Air to fly to LAX instead of MIA or JFK, for sure the two best markets for Brazilian Airlines.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
No, not at all. TransBrasil was flying MIA-GRU until around December 2001

IIRC, last flights MIA-GRU with TR was on October, and by end of October/first days of November they grounded their entire fleet. By Dec, 2001 i had a bad time trying to return from NYC to Rio (GIG), and remember TR was not flying US-Brazil anymore.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
A388
Posts: 7157
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:15 am

Maybe it would also be nice if Ocean Air would paint the red into green in their livery to better match the color of the flag of Brazil. I think it wouldn't be that bad looking but rather nice actually. Just a thaught.

A388  Smile
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 35):
First time I read about this and I haven't seen a lower fare from FLL than MIA in AV yet.

Ricardo, the characteristics of Avianca's BOG-FLL service have indeed been discussed several times. It has been suggested that Avianca intentionally offers lower fares to FLL in order to drive the lower-yielding passengers away from the more demanded MIA services. It's a strategy that makes sense, and works well.

I speak for myself, but when I started to look for fares to the Miami area back in September, Fort Lauderdale was by far the cheapest option from Medellin, and that determined our decision.



SA.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
And from Colombia, there's NO diffrence at all. Many colombians prefer that flight for many reasons.

Well, many sure do, but business travelers don't, and thats who brings in the cash.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
For example, inmigration is way smoother in FLL than in MIA,

Huge misconception. FLL's immigration facilities are way to small to handle how many international flights the airport has. FLL's immigration is horrendous, especially when the afternoon rush starts at around 1pm.
a.
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 39):
Ricardo, the characteristics of Avianca's BOG-FLL service have indeed been discussed several times. It has been suggested that Avianca intentionally offers lower fares to FLL in order to drive the lower-yielding passengers away from the more demanded MIA services. It's a strategy that makes sense, and works well.

I speak for myself, but when I started to look for fares to the Miami area back in September, Fort Lauderdale was by far the cheapest option from Medellin, and that determined our decision.

Now that you said it, I believe it, but again, everytime I look for a fare to BOG, (about 6 times a year) I have always seen the same fare from MIA and FLL. Thanks for the info though.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
Huge misconception. FLL's immigration facilities are way to small to handle how many international flights the airport has. FLL's immigration is horrendous, especially when the afternoon rush starts at around 1pm.

Not a misconception, I have experienced it. I agree that the immigration facilities are small, but the amount of international flights is also small and usually they handle your flight only. I have done that flight 3 times and the three times I have spent no more than 15 minutes in immigration. Last time was in March 2006 though, I don't know if the conditions have changed.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 41):
don't know if the conditions have changed.

They haven't. At least with AA and AV flights arriving into MIA, inmigration is a real pain in the @ss, specially in the morning flights.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
Well, many sure do, but business travelers don't, and thats who brings in the cash.

Business travellers do use the route, and do fill the premium seats.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 41):
I have always seen the same fare from MIA and FLL

Same here. But to be honest, I prefer to take the pm flight to MIA instead of the mornign flight to FLL, that way, I avoid the mess at BOG in the morning and still can go to the office that day until noon.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 42):
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 41):
don't know if the conditions have changed.

They haven't. At least with AA and AV flights arriving into MIA, inmigration is a real pain in the @ss, specially in the morning flights

Yeah, I know... I saw it in January at MIA, but I was referring to the conditions in FLL.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
incitatus
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Hard facts? That's simple. Name successful attempts to start inter-continental service out of Ft. Lauderdale. The answer? One (of dozens): Avianca. And Avianca's FLL flights does well because they offer cheap fares.

We can look at Newark as a successful model of an alternative international airport for FLL. Twenty five years ago there was very little transatlantic service at Newark. There were many failures to sustain service there, including even American which could not make money on a single flight to London. Now the airport even has some European airlines that do not serve JFK. Singapore Air picked Newark for its nonstop service as opposed to JFK.

Many airlines tried FLL and it did not work. That does not mean all foreign airlines should write it off. Every year traffic grows a few percentage points making the chance of success higher. Every year the population center of South Florida drifts slightly northwards. During high season all flights between the US and Brazil book up, so a flight to FLL would easily do well at least 4 months of the year. It may not do well all year, but like I said, the chance of success improves every year.
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donzilasse
Posts: 206
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RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:59 am

Incitatus
I have not seen any flights with a lot of empty chairs for the past 9 months to Brasil out of MIA. Even the MIA/MAO is doing good for TAM. You are absolutely correct about tha population centra moving Northworths. 7 or 8 years ago we said that South of I-595 was Latin and North of was caucasian Americans. Now we have a huge and increasing latin population all over Broward and Palm Beach County but also the fast growing Treasure Coast area with Port St. Lucie has a fast growing Latin population. This is not to mention the Pompano Beach and Deerfield area which has the second largest Brazilian population outside of Brasil. The Fort Lauderdale airport is very convenient located and has been going through a lot of expansian primarely with terminals and parking as well as the new access from US1. It is also extremely easy and fast to reach Sunny Isles and the North Miami area from the airport and I have several Brazilian friends in that area that always flies out of FLL instead of MIA domestically because the traffic to FLL for them is so much easier than if going through MIA. With the vaste amount of Delta and Southwest flights FLL also has a established network of connections even if I cannot see Ocean any time soon joining Sky Team ! If any transcontinental flights should be succesful from FLL I would definately believe that a U.S. Brazilian flight would be one of the easier ones to succeed with especially now when Varig isn't around here anymore.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:24 am

In my opinion Oceanair should try Orlando-MCO or even Orlando Sanford-SFB and see how that goes. Now there's more Brazilian residents in the area than there was back then.. however I'm not sure if the Brazilian tourism to Orlando is as strong as it was before.

I remember that the early morning UA flight from Miami to Orlando was packed was Brasileiros, I don't know if United (Ted) still have this flight.

MCO used to have 3 Brazilian airlines: Transbrasil and for a time Vasp and Varig.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 46):
In my opinion Oceanair should try Orlando-MCO or even Orlando Sanford-SFB and see how that goes. Now there's more Brazilian residents in the area than there was back then.. however I'm not sure if the Brazilian tourism to Orlando is as strong as it was before.

Agree, and also they could try at least a 2x weekly stop at SSA where they also keep a good domestic network. MCO nowadays, at the current fare level to Brazil and the still growing demand, no doubt will be very profitable.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 47):

Agree, and also they could try at least a 2x weekly stop at SSA where they also keep a good domestic network. MCO nowadays, at the current fare level to Brazil and the still growing demand, no doubt will be very profitable.

Unfortunately, as many airline have learned, there isn't money to be made flying Orlando-Brazil. Filling the plane would be very easy, the local market is huge thanks to Brazilians' love of Disney World, but you can't make money off high school tour groups filling a 763.
a.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: First 763 To OceanAir Confirmed!

Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 48):
Unfortunately, as many airline have learned, there isn't money to be made flying Orlando-Brazil. Filling the plane would be very easy, the local market is huge thanks to Brazilians' love of Disney World, but you can't make money off high school tour groups filling a 763

And why they can't run connections out of MCO ? I use to visit MIA from both Rio and São Paulo and all the times i saw many bags with tags other than MIA. We know that MIA is far stronger as a Latin American Business Center (and connects to all Caribbean) but nowadays do not make money to MCO is something hard to believe, and also we can't consider that because of Disney World, we will only see high school tour groups.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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