Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:31 pm

It seems the first flights on the new all business airline "L'Avion" -Elysair between ORY and EWR have suffered very low loads factors.(between 2 and 48 passengers..)
The yesterday's flight was cancelled totally (with only two bookings..)
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5478
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:37 pm

Probably because the "all-business class" service to NY is oversaturated. I don't think there really is a market for Paris-NY business. I can see LON, FRA, Japan, and that's about it...

L'Avion need to reconfigure those aircraft and run ORY-"anywhere else East Coast where AF doesn't fly" and try to do a P2P international service...
Aiming High and going far..
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:41 pm

The money they invested into this venture would have been more wisely spent on taking over Air Madrid from it's previous owners- that's precisely what LTU have done !
I agree that the market to New York for C class pax is saturated .
You can find C class tickets on Swiss or KLM for 2.200 €return TTC...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:46 pm

...or because they only started service a few weeks ago
-started taking bookings one day and the next day started flying
-January is a low time for travel
-Eos and MaxJet had similar low loads at the beginning

I'll wait a bit more before taking load factor too seriously.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Airlittoral
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:30 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:49 pm

Anyway, Marc Rochet has already sunken a few airlines...he can easily do better  Silly
 
123
Posts: 616
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:49 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:54 pm

Any link to their website?
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:58 pm

Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
jamman
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:33 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:03 pm

Have these 'all business' type airlines been proven to work? like Maxjet etc, do they make a profit?
Also whats the mentality of the french traveller? will they go for cheap business seats or stick to earning flight miles with more expensive buisness seats on a French carrier for instance?
Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
 
Airlittoral
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:30 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think there really is a market for Paris-NY business. I can see LON, FRA, Japan, and that's about it...

Yes, there is, definitely. Paris is a huge metropolitan area (over 11-12 million people live there) and one of the wealthiest area in western europe. There is a market to fill a daily 757!

Quoting Jamman (Reply 7):
Also whats the mentality of the french traveller?

I don't think there such a thing as a "mentality of the french traveller"...business traveller or tourist?
 
jamman
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:33 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting AirLittoral (Reply 8):
"mentality of the french traveller"...business traveller or tourist?

Perhaps I was a bit too general but what I ment was do the french perfer to fly in business class than standard economy? or are we just looking at men in suits using this airline.
You've kinda answered my question by saying that there is a market for this kind of travel in your prevous post. Thanks.
Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:50 pm

They still offer 999$ roundtrip fares for the first 999 seats from New York to Paris- there are still plenty available-so the bookings seem not very massive...
( so it's 30 % cheaper to fly from US to Europe than the inverse..)
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
They still offer 999$ roundtrip fares for the first 999 seats from New York to Paris- there are still plenty available-so the bookings seem not very massive...

That's if they don't cancel the flight because there's a load of 2 pax only.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
foxxray
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 5:06 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:18 pm

Hum an other typical Beaucaire's topic !

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think there really is a market for Paris-NY business. I can see LON, FRA, Japan, and that's about it...

What you think isn't very important !

There is definitely a market for this kind of flight on the Paris-NYC route...
EOS had (and maybe still have ?) very low load on their flights to London !

So let time to time...
 
8herveg
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
P2P international service

Could you explain what this is please?
 
jamman
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:33 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 13):
Could you explain what this is please?

Point to Point, where airlines fly city to city with out a need to change flight?
Phoning it in from a place with no phones.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15266
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:20 am

It is the first month, they have next to no name recognition, nobody knows what their service actually looks like (at least you can't tell from their website), and the market for standalone premium traffic between NYC and PAR is slim to none.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 12):
Hum an other typical Beaucaire's topic !

What is that supposed to mean-what have low loadfactors to do with any of my topics????
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
foxxray
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 5:06 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:03 am

as always you are negative !(mostly with french airlines or industry)
Have you ever seen a new route with 100% of loadfactor on the first flight ?
I don't think so !!! So after only one week of operation, please stop to criticize !

And if they get at least one time 48 passengers on a flight, i think it's pretty good after only one week of operation with a plane which can carry 90 paxs !

L'Avion will or will not make money, we don't know; so wait and see.
(And personally i hope L'avion will work fine.)
 
stylo777
Posts: 1996
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 11):
That's if they don't cancel the flight because there's a load of 2 pax only.

but that means they was a low booking number on the return flight, too. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to cancel the flight if the return is book with probably 30-40 pax?!?!
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:17 am

I did never ever mention that I hope any airline will not succeed !
France needs much more entrepreneural spirit in the aviation sector -and l'Avion hopefully makes it.
But the man who steers Elysair has unfortunately not a great record of steering airlines through troubled weather...
It is regretful that France seems to maintain airline-managers that are not in the same league as in the US,UK or Germany -that's all.(there are the usual exceptions tied to airlines like Air France,Air Mediterranée,Airlinair..)
Critizism does not mean desire to see any company fail !
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
foxxray
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 5:06 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:42 am

I agree with you, Marc Rochet has nothing to do in the aviation business anymore (he should rather be in prison) ! But for an unknown reason he is still here, so we can just hope that he will not managed L'Avion like he did in the past...

You can criticize M. Rochet but please stop to bash L'Avion after only 1 week !
If the loadfactor is still low in 1 year OK ! but presently only time will tell...
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:00 am

I usually agree with Beaucaire - but in this instance, I'd have to say give L'Avion some time. They had lot of drama during the startup and I am sure are just setting the ground. However, they need to advertize. MaxJet and EOS have been very loud in their PR efforts.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
ncelhr
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 20):
You can criticize M. Rochet but please stop to bash L'Avion after only 1 week !
If the loadfactor is still low in 1 year OK ! but presently only time will tell...

Whilst I would really wish all the Best for l'Avion, the problem, I fear, is a lack of "buzz" factor for them. I do not know what their advertising budget is like, but before even launching they should have already put together a huuuuge, and I really mean huge, advertising campaign to make themselves known. When Easyjet started, they took every opportunity to plug themselves on TV programs all the time. Same when Virgin Atlantic started. L'Avion's operational start was not as "loud" as others... so no buzz, no high loads.

That said, if they have deep enough pockets they might well succeed! Only problem will be if they encounter a tech problem and get bad publicity from it. Biz Class passengers want to be ontime above everything else.
 
art
Posts: 2679
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 22):
I do not know what their advertising budget is like, but before even launching they should have already put together a huuuuge, and I really mean huge, advertising campaign to make themselves known.

I share your opinion. It sounds to me like insufficient investment was put into marketing and advertising the launch of the service.
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:15 am

Loadfactor isn't everything - the yield will be crucial. If the few passengers they have are paying a lot there is a chance they will be doing OK. If some passengers only have 2 passengers then whatever the passengers are paying I guess they will be loosing money but if they have say 30/40 high yielding passengers things might not be that bad
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Probably because the "all-business class" service to NY is oversaturated. I don't think there really is a market for Paris-NY business. I can see LON, FRA, Japan, and that's about it...

I assume thats why Swiss operates a 6 time weekly BBJ from Zurich to Newark and vv. for quite some time.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
The money they invested into this venture would have been more wisely spent on taking over Air Madrid from it's previous owners- that's precisely what LTU have done !

LTU denied today any intention to take over Air Madrid and/or half of its personnel as reported by the Spanish press.
LTU is only interested in the traffic rights of Air Madrid.
 
cy319
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:42 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 3):

-started taking bookings one day and the next day started flying
-January is a low time for travel
-Eos and MaxJet had similar low loads at the beginning

very correct points!

I would also add that it needs time to take some enterprises on their side and sign travel deals with them instead of AF, DL,AA etc. However, the lack of network of L' Avion is likely to prevent big enterprises from signing travel deals with the airline.
wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 12):
Hum an other typical Beaucaire's topic !

Based on this airlines, I agree.....

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 20):
You can criticize M. Rochet but please stop to bash L'Avion after only 1 week !

And there is the answer!!! so I do not know what exactly the problem is....

Quoting Humberside (Reply 24):
Loadfactor isn't everything - the yield will be crucial. If the few passengers they have are paying a lot there is a chance they will be doing OK. If some passengers only have 2 passengers then whatever the passengers are paying I guess they will be loosing money but if they have say 30/40 high yielding passengers things might not be that bad

No one here knows what kind of an lease they have on the 757, so what if they have one were they only pay if the "wheels" are turning??? sure there is a cost with canceling a flight or two however it will be a lot less than flying 2-6 pax a cross the pond............

The market out of Paris to New York is very big and I am sure ORY-EWR will work with a 757.

I am sure M Rochet will have very restricted authority based on his past...

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
The money they invested into this venture would have been more wisely spent on taking over Air Madrid

Sorry but I rather start a new airlines than taking over that mess (Air Madrid).

Cheers,
 
beeweel15
Posts: 896
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
It seems the first flights on the new all business airline "L'Avion" -Elysair between ORY and EWR have suffered very low loads factors.(between 2 and 48 passengers..)
The yesterday's flight was cancelled totally (with only two bookings..)

Well give them a chance cause they just started. I remember EOS when they started they had very very low loads for a while but they have inproved and now they are flying almost full flights every day.
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:35 pm

12/01 46PAX ORY-EWR
13/01 24PAX EWR-ORY
14/01 25PAX ORY-EWR
15/01 11PAX EWR-ORY
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 3):
-Eos and MaxJet had similar low loads at the beginning

And eventually they'll share the same fate -  tombstone 

I honestly never got the hype of low-frequency, all-C airlines. The established carriers have just as good business classes, and a wider selection of products, as well as higher frequencies. Who cares about whether or not you share a cabin with the low-yield economy pax in the back; you aren't likely to meet any of them anyway. LX, LH, KL operating all-C jets (or having somebody do it for them) is different; they can still offer the conveniences of a major airline, including frequencies, FFP etc.

Kevin777  Wink
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:53 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
The money they invested into this venture would have been more wisely spent on taking over Air Madrid from it's previous owners

It may have been wiser, but their obvious intention was to enter a different market, with a different product. Time will tell if they've made everything possible to succeed.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think there really is a market for Paris-NY business.

I would say the contrary. The market is perhaps not that huge, but a niche market may exist. That's still Ile-de-France after all.

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 17):
L'Avion will or will not make money, we don't know; so wait and see.

Right.

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 20):
I agree with you, Marc Rochet has nothing to do in the aviation business anymore (he should rather be in prison) !

He should really be considered as the French Frank Lorenzo.

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 22):
I do not know what their advertising budget is like, but before even launching they should have already put together a huuuuge, and I really mean huge, advertising campaign to make themselves known.

That may be one of their weak points.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 28):
No one here knows what kind of an lease they have on the 757, so what if they have one were they only pay if the "wheels" are turning???

Sure that it is still cheaper to cancel a flight rather than fly almost empty. But the cancellation should not arise too often, or that will label the airline as unreliable.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 28):
I am sure M Rochet will have very restricted authority based on his past...

I hope so....

Lets wish the best to that airline and its hard working people.


Cheers.
 
WDBRR
Posts: 599
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:28 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:23 am

first of all, I live in the Newark area and I did not know this airline
even existed, I have never seen any advertisement on TV or print.

secondly, I was on their web site link above, there is no English version
or anything to click on to get the English/American verison.
 
User avatar
mbm3
Posts: 698
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:54 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 33):
secondly, I was on their web site link above, there is no English version
or anything to click on to get the English/American verison.

Try this:

http://www.lavion.com/us/
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
lancastersmail
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:05 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:24 am

Was on their web site on Saturday and priced a June Paris trip at $1299 RT; today(Mon) it is $4800 RT..........hello.........what happened to low cost?
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
It seems the first flights on the new all business airline "L'Avion" -Elysair between ORY and EWR have suffered very low loads factors.(between 2 and 48 passengers..)
The yesterday's flight was cancelled totally (with only two bookings..)

WOW! 2-48 pax, I've heard of low international loads before, but never that low.
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
timo007
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:10 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:17 am

Does anyone have any new news on how this airline is doing?

I noticed they still have their first 999 tickets for $999. I find it surprising that they haven't even sold a thousand tickets yet, and it has been operating for nearly a month.

Anyone have any new info?

Thanks in advance,

Timo
 
jfk777
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:24 am

The loads seem half respectable for January for a 757 seating 48 people. If I was carrying 25-30 passengers an average flight I would be happy with the launch. As Spring comes with the Fall fashion shows in Paris and more people travel, the loads should pick up.
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 38):
The loads seem half respectable for January for a 757 seating 48 people.

I would say (if those are PAYING passengers) those loads are really good after some weeks of operation and little advertising. I just just doubt - from my experience - that all those passengers paid for their tickets.
There a a lot of journalists wanting to "test" a new product, and if you have empty seats you always tend to take them, hoping for some positive press.
 
skyzheimers
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:57 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:40 am

what ever happened to the Paris Airport Authority (ADP) no longer allowing Trans- Atlantic Service from ORY? Several US Carriers were forced to move their operations to CDG?  confused 
 
timo007
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:10 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:11 am

If you are a French Company, they treat you differently I guess. Just like the sang goes, it is not what you know, it is who you know.

Cheers,

Timo
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 40):
what ever happened to the Paris Airport Authority (ADP) no longer allowing Trans- Atlantic Service from ORY? Several US Carriers were forced to move their operations to CDG?

"Several" ? "Forced" ?

DL and AA were the last 2 US carriers to operate to/from ORY.
DL moved to CDG early 2000, following its alliance with AF in Skyteam

AA moved shortly after as part of ADP's reorganization plan : TAT, Air Liberté and AOM were still "alive" at that time and wanted space to expand at ORLY-Sud Terminal.
Corsair was at that time moved from Orly -Sud to Orly-West.
 
gbfra
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:50 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 39):
There a a lot of journalists wanting to "test" a new product, and if you have empty seats you always tend to take them, hoping for some positive press.

Umm, no. There is no sense in inviting journalists over a longer period. If you are longing for media coverage you have to invite all the journalists at the same time. From the point of a journalist (and I'm one) what's the sense of writing a paper about a story your competitors had one or two weeks ago?
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 38):
The loads seem half respectable for January for a 757 seating 48 people. If I was carrying 25-30 passengers an average flight I would be happy with the launch.

Actually they have 90 very comfy seats in their GE powered 757

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 39):
I would say (if those are PAYING passengers) those loads are really good after some weeks of operation and little advertising. I just just doubt - from my experience - that all those passengers paid for their tickets.



Quoting Gbfra (Reply 43):
Umm, no. There is no sense in inviting journalists over a longer period. If you are longing for media coverage you have to invite all the journalists at the same time.

Yep the "freebies" are over  Wink and if they keep on digging they will be able to get a solid "fan" (pax) base...

Cheers,
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:53 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 44):
in their GE powered 757

You sure about that ???? These are P&W engines.

Cheers.
 
skyzheimers
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:57 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:29 am

as part of ADP's reorganization plan

neither Continental which at that time was not in Skyteam yet nor American Airlines wanted to move to CDG... yes, they were forced to make the move!

ADP argued that as part of its REORGANIZATION PLAN all Trans-Atlantic services were to operate from CDG...

the real truth of the matter was Air France was unhappy with the advantage the carriers had at ORY... many more domestic and North African connections never mind a very large business community to the south of Paris that preferred ORY...

ironically when the unfortunate incident happened and the new SKYTEAM terminal at CDG collapsed ADP approached AA with a move back to ORY - A REORGANIZATION OF THE REORGANIZATION PLAN! Of course by then flying had changed dramatically because Air France today has no more domestic competition and albeit it was tempting to get some of the business from the south side of Paris back the proposal came at a time when American was fighting to stay out of chapter 11 and the move was deemed too costly...

AA filed an objection with the DOT to L'AVION operating out of ORY...
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 45):
You sure about that ???? These are P&W engines.

Sorry my bad!!! yes they are Pee & Wees... Big grin, I thought you were out..... but it is good to know I can count on you if I have a hick up...  Smile

Cheers,
 
Magyarorszag
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:53 am

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 47):
yes they are Pee & Wees...

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Swissy (Reply 47):
I thought you were out.....

 eyepopping  Out ? What do you mean ? In outer space ?  biggrin 
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: L'Avion (ORY-EWR) Very Low Loads...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 43):
Umm, no. There is no sense in inviting journalists over a longer period. If you are longing for media coverage you have to invite all the journalists at the same time. From the point of a journalist (and I'm one) what's the sense of writing a paper about a story your competitors had one or two weeks ago?



Quoting Swissy (Reply 44):
Yep the "freebies" are over and if they keep on digging they will be able to get a solid "fan" (pax) base...

Sorry, but I am in this business as well and I had a crazy number of requests over a whole season. It's no problem to bring a nice report of "style" travel even weeks after a service started....

I am convinced that there are freebies on board. Not only journalists but: winner of lucky draws and other promotional activities. I would even saw if NOT they made something wrong in PR.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexdk, Baidu [Spider], Bluebird191, BobPatterson, bunumuring, CanadaFair, Carpethead, drerx7, FAST Enterprise [Crawler], flyingclrs727, frigatebird, giapichino, Google Adsense [Bot], headlessmike, highflyer, jackson112233, JannEejit, jfk777, KarelXWB, keesje, LFW, Planejoe, PlymSpotter, pugsley, rfields5421, runway23, skymiler, smaragdz, tlecam, Tvilum and 351 guests