boacvc10
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BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:29 am

I had a relative go through an unfortunate incident at IAD on Thursday 11th January just prior to the BA check-in counters, and wonder about future travel with BA and other airlines that follow suit. Will it be worth packing any gifts for families and other non-essential items, if the airlines want to (a) limit our checked baggage to E-X-A-C-T-L-Y 32 Kg "and not a gram more than 32 Kg", (b) reduce that same limit even further down to 23 Kg !!!!

Draconian Baggage Allowances by BA found here

Has the management of BA gone insane? Are they now run by nincompoops ? Have they any idea of what the load capacity is of the aircraft they are assigning to IAD/LHR sectors ?

I can only say from my first hand experience this afternoon, that it seemed that the reason why IAD BA would setup a separate station to "weigh" suspicious looking baggage and to refuse any luggage pieces that are even slightly over 32 Kg, citing "baggage handler liability" is pure and simple a cover story for discrimination against Asian passengers, as in the 1.5 hours we were there this afternoon, I stood next to that same station, and NOT A SINGLE CAUCASIAN passenger was asked to have their luggage weighed.

For those a.netters who are going to flame me, let me tell you what I think of those who will defend the rights of airlines to impose arbitary restrictions on luggage - we pay money to travel overseas, returning often a few years in between to destinations - there are other airlines (SQ, CX, GF, EK comes to mind) that have far more mature baggage policies than whatever you lot can think off, and given that most of our travel has to include some provisions for gifts, making such a small allowance in checked baggage on a 744 aircraft makes absolutely no sense whatsover.

Where do you travel? Do you have any friends, you would like to take gifts for, and have you ever dared to pack more than 32 Kg into your luggage and hoped for some leniency when you checked in ? I'd like to ask BA staff to confirm they have never, ever, dared to cross that magic 32 Kg or checked in a cabin baggage themselves that didn't fit "in the specified sample container", that is so prominently placed at the front of the check-in line.

Perhaps I am the only one who thinks this way, and all others are happy with carrying nothing on their international flights with 2PC baggage allowances? Please do tell all.

BOACVC10
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airlineaddict
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:30 pm

I'm sorry your family had problems on their last flight. I can see your point of view regarding the BA's strictness on the 32 kg rule, however with the price of oil, more weight = more fuel = higher cost, even if the load capacity of the aircraft is high.

My experience traveling on other airlines is that the "strictness" regarding weights is really up to the check-in counter personnel. Some are nicer, some are not.

I have traveled with family members who also like to pack up to the maximum (or beyond) with gifts and end up having to take stuff out of their bags at the check-in counter because the bags were overweight.

On the devil advocate's side, if the maximum is 32 kg as definied on the ticket (contract with the airline), why pack more than 32 kg? I never understood this about my family.
 
behramjee
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:39 pm

yes from Feb 13th onwards, BA has officially announced that all checked baggage cannot weigh more than 23KG with maximum of 2 pieces allowed per trans-atlantic passenger.

Click the link below to read please.

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/ba6.jsp/bgpolicy/public/en_us

also fyi...KLM also have a nasty reputation at IAD of singling out Indians bound for DEL/BOM on their IAD flights when it comes to baggage weight and size.
 
exFATboy
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:05 pm

Actually, for trans-Atlantic passengers all BA is doing is coming into line with the US carriers' policies: 2 bags at 50 pounds (23kg=50.6 lbs.) For First and Business classes, BA still allows 3 at 23kg/50lb, American only allows two. CO is a little more generous for First and BusinessFirst - 3 at 70 lbs, but 2 at 50 for non-Elite coach customers.

(CO lets Elite customers go to 70 lbs on bags, even for domestic...and guess who is Elite Silver for 2007! Cool! Not that I ever have a 70 lb bag, but I have had to play around to stay under 50 sometimes...)

And for "Euro Traveller", BA still allows 1 bag at 23 kg, 3 kilos more than EasyJet.

Don't get me wrong, BA is definitely cutting back, but I wouldn't call it "draconian" - looks like they're just coming into line with the competition.
 
deltairlines
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 3):

(CO lets Elite customers go to 70 lbs on bags, even for domestic...and guess who is Elite Silver for 2007! Cool! Not that I ever have a 70 lb bag, but I have had to play around to stay under 50 sometimes...)

DL does the same thing. Medallions are allowed to check 3 bags at 70 lbs each (which means I can check 210 pounds of stuff and not pay a single cent; compared to 100 lbs for a non-elite). I'll be using this on Monday when I go back to school - 2 70 lb. bags full of my clothes and stuff, and my third bag being my golf clubs. Definetely helps on cutting down the shipping costs - shipping a 70 lb. box cost me $75 last year - this year, Delta will be doing that free of charge!
 
axio
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:44 pm


32kg.. Luxury!
When I last flew Qantas, my ticket only allowed me 20kg all the way from London to Wellington.... and after 6 weeks overseas!


 Smile
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:56 pm

Most majors now have a 23kg limit per bag.

My question is, what the hell are you packing that causes your bag to weigh over 32kg??? I've travelled overseas many times and my bag is NEVER even close to 32kg. It's not Draconian, it's common sense.

AC also has a 23kg limit per bag, however some destinations are exempt from this (HKG, DEL, NRT to name a few). Not sure if BA does this but it may be why you saw non-caucasian people "getting away" with not weighing their bags.

Kris
 
manni
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting Axio (Reply 5):

32kg.. Luxury!
When I last flew Qantas, my ticket only allowed me 20kg all the way from London to Wellington.... and after 6 weeks overseas!

That's the standard allowance for economy passengers on most flights in Europe, Asia, Australia and most of Africa and South America or a flight between any of those continents. Altough it is my experience that, probably due to the low allowance, these limits aren't strictly enforced. Especially on flights to/from Asia you will at most airlines not run into problems if your bag doesn't exceed 30KG.

Why is there an exception for traffic to/from the US?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
Nimish
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:09 pm

Fly AI or SQ instead - still 32Kgs X 2 bags allowed.
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boacvc10
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:36 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
what the hell are you packing

I am tempted to give the keyboard to my XYL so that she can write in some choice words which will probably burn your keyboard, but to keep some form of civility in this forum, (BTW, thanks for your comments on my post), the luggage consisted mostly of toy's for our young tot's in four families and candy and cosmetic gifts for the all individual members spread around the places in our home country.  cool 

I would assume you have family obligations as well, and perhaps you have a large sized family, so if you visit them once every two years, would you not consider bringing each a small gift ? And of course, there is the issue of weight of the clothes, if the pax is going away for four months, do you want to say that you don't take any clean clothes / coats with you on long trips ?  scratchchin 

BOACVC10
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LGW
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting BOACVC10 (Thread starter):
I can only say from my first hand experience this afternoon, that it seemed that the reason why IAD BA would setup a separate station to "weigh" suspicious looking baggage and to refuse any luggage pieces that are even slightly over 32 Kg, citing "baggage handler liability" is pure and simple a cover story for discrimination against Asian passengers, as in the 1.5 hours we were there this afternoon, I stood next to that same station, and NOT A SINGLE CAUCASIAN passenger was asked to have their luggage weighed.

Absolute, unfounded rubbish.

Quoting BOACVC10 (Thread starter):
For those a.netters who are going to flame me, let me tell you what I think of those who will defend the rights of airlines to impose arbitary restrictions on luggage - we pay money to travel overseas, returning often a few years in between to destinations - there are other airlines (SQ, CX, GF, EK comes to mind) that have far more mature baggage policies than whatever you lot can think off, and given that most of our travel has to include some provisions for gifts, making such a small allowance in checked baggage on a 744 aircraft makes absolutely no sense whatsover.

You pay money to travel overseas and who offers you the opportunity to do so? The airlines, they are businesses and they put rules in place they want/need to as with any industry, if you don't like BA's baggage policy and prefer other carriers then fly them, I can't imagine it will be long until 23kgs becomes the industry average.

Quoting BOACVC10 (Thread starter):
Where do you travel? Do you have any friends, you would like to take gifts for, and have you ever dared to pack more than 32 Kg into your luggage and hoped for some leniency when you checked in ? I'd like to ask BA staff to confirm they have never, ever, dared to cross that magic 32 Kg or checked in a cabin baggage themselves that didn't fit "in the specified sample container", that is so prominently placed at the front of the check-in line.

I work for BA, I travel, I have friends, I sometimes take gifts and I have never had a case over (or near) 32kgs. The sample container is for hand baggage not checked-in baggage.

Quoting BOACVC10 (Thread starter):
Perhaps I am the only one who thinks this way, and all others are happy with carrying nothing on their international flights with 2PC baggage allowances? Please do tell all.

"Nothing"? BA allow 23kgs (with a 2kg leaway) I wouldn't call 25kgs nothing.
 
boacvc10
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 8):
Fly AI or SQ instead

SQ is still #1, their baggage allowance even allows for an extra "piece" if you are SQ Kris Flyer Elite Gold, and for the regular Y class, the allowance is 2 x 32 KG + infant accessories !

Singapore Airlines Checked Baggage Rules
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Airbus A3XX
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 9):
I would assume you have family obligations as well, and perhaps you have a large sized family, so if you visit them once every two years, would you not consider bringing each a small gift ? And of course, there is the issue of weight of the clothes, if the pax is going away for four months, do you want to say that you don't take any clean clothes / coats with you on long trips ?

I do see your point, but that is not a concern to the airline when in comes to how much you can carry. You are always welcomed to bring more on the plane by paying baggage surcharges.
 
trekster
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:55 pm

BTW as well, BA do not handle items over 32 kgs for health and safty reasons unless its outsize baggage or cargo.
Also, the new policy is coming in line with new uk law, and you will see other airlines follow suit.
Where does the time go???
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:55 pm

I have noticed in the past that there are certain parts of the World from which people tend to travel with huge amounts of luggage, two being Asia and parts of Africa. It thus seems logical that check in staff would concentrate on them when looking for heavy bags. Its not racist or discriminatory - purely logical. If you put this into another context when the police are investigating a crime, they interview suspects not every member of the population.

With regard to BA's policy on limiting the weight of bags, as previously posted my wife has a cousin with permanant back damage caused whilst lifting heavy bags when working for a BA contractor at check in.
Her state of health is not worth one single persons reasons for having a heavy bag. The only regret is that if BA had done this 10 years ago she would still be fit.

[Edited 2007-01-12 10:57:17]
 
LGWspeedbird
Posts: 428
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:06 pm

Quoting Trekster (Reply 13):
the new policy is coming in line with new uk law, and you will see other airlines follow suit.

I believe VS only allows upto 23kgs ?

Quoting LGW" class=quote target=_blank>LGW (Reply 10):
if you don't like BA's baggage policy and prefer other carriers then fly them,

Totally agree, if you dont like it fly with some other carrier! This new 23kg is for the health and safety of our baggage handlers! you only have to lift the bag onto the baggage belt! the guys downstairs have to haul it around a few more times to get it onto the a/c!

It is going to be soooo fun on check in when this new rule comes in! as LGW said there will be a 2 kg leaway but thats it!
upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:18 pm

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 9):
I would assume you have family obligations as well, and perhaps you have a large sized family, so if you visit them once every two years, would you not consider bringing each a small gift ? And of course, there is the issue of weight of the clothes, if the pax is going away for four months, do you want to say that you don't take any clean clothes / coats with you on long trips ?

My sister lives in Taiwan, so I've done the whole care package trip a few times. I've never gone overweight. Mind you, at AC the 23kg rule is not total, but 2 bags EACH weighing 23kg so a total of 46kg per passenger. That's a lot of stuff.

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 15):
This new 23kg is for the health and safety of our baggage handlers! you only have to lift the bag onto the baggage belt! the guys downstairs have to haul it around a few more times to get it onto the a/c!

I think fuel consumption is the main reason, but you're right that health and safety comes into play as well, injury rates were getting ridiculous. As a ramper I get a little bit irked when people complain that they can't check a bag that weighs nearly 100lbs, seemingly without a care for the people who have to lift it into the awkward/small cargo hold of an airplane.

Kris
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting BOACVC10 (Thread starter):
I can only say from my first hand experience this afternoon, that it seemed that the reason why IAD BA would setup a separate station to "weigh" suspicious looking baggage and to refuse any luggage pieces that are even slightly over 32 Kg,

The 32kgs limit as others have said has been standard. This is the limit at which any one piece will be accepted by any airline and for good reason. If you want a bag heavier than this then ship it as cargo or put it in a seperate bag and take it as cargo. I for one am very pleased to hear that my colleagues at IAD have been doing their job properly.

As for the changes, yes the limit will be reduced as of 13 Feb.

Quoting BOACVC10 (Thread starter):
Where do you travel? Do you have any friends, you would like to take gifts for, and have you ever dared to pack more than 32 Kg into your luggage and hoped for some leniency when you checked in ? I'd like to ask BA staff to confirm they have never, ever, dared to cross that magic 32 Kg or checked in a cabin baggage themselves that didn't fit "in the specified sample container", that is so prominently placed at the front of the check-in line.

As a staff member, no, I don't go above the allowed limits when I travel or I pay the excess charges like every other passenger. As for the cabin baggage, as staff, we also have to comply with the size requirement, but I only ever take a small bag as I don't need much during the flight.
 
soups
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:55 pm

Funny why Lagos is entitled to 32KGX2 each passenger and not to other african destaination such as ACC, JNB, CPT, NBO.... and it's got nothing to do with nigerian laws as many airlines fly into LOS on the concept of weight and NOT pieces (talking in respect to BA)
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:11 pm

Quoting Axio (Reply 5):
When I last flew Qantas, my ticket only allowed me 20kg all the way from London to Wellington.... and after 6 weeks overseas!

That used to be standard on all airlines 44 lbs checked baggage, so I don't see the problem. I can't remember Air Canada's allowance, but it seems to me that they cut their baggage allowance way back last year, might be wrong but I think that my allowance was a lot less last year
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
ltbewr
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:24 pm

There is no doubt of a trend to try to limit total luggage weight per pax and per bag for a number of reasons as suggested above including fuel savings, reducing injury of baggage handlers, and to just to reduce the weight and volume of baggage onto a/c's. I would like to suggest other possible reasons:
Increased baggage per passenger, with more overweight and total overweight baggage, adding significant weight per flight. That may increases the fuel burn.
Smaller aircraft are being used today and they are more crowded with pax, so less room for baggage and other paying freight.
More bags and heavier bags = slower turn around times at gates, thus less utilization rates and higher costs.
Over recent years, most of baggage handling at airports has been contracted out to 3 party companies rather than airline employees. Those employees are probably not paid as well or have the benefits of those who used to be direct airline employees so their productivity may not be as good and those workers are seeking government to protect them from the Airlines. With contracting out bag handling, airlines now have a break down of their costs of baggage handling and as looking for any way to save money, want to reduce those costs even further. There may have been increases in those costs as more pax have more baggage and more very heavy bags causing higher bag handler injury rates, staff turnover and thus higher operating costs.
On many flights, high percentages of pax with heavy and excess baggage, and the reality that they cannot take it all. In the USA, as to flights to the Caribbean, most airlines have to strictly limit the amount of baggage due to almost everybody bringing items home.
One has to wonder too if with some countries, they are trying to discourage excess baggage to protect local businesses.
 
kaneporta1
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:37 pm

What I don't understand is the European/Domestic allowance. From Feb 13th, only one piece is allowed, max weight 23kg. That's fine so far, but there is no clarification if you can carry more bags for free as long as the 23kg limit is not exceeded. So if I have a bag of apples that weighs 10kg and a bag of oranges that weighs 10kg, and don't want to mix apples with oranges, do I have to pay the ridiculous £60 extra bag charge?
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 21):
What I don't understand is the European/Domestic allowance. From Feb 13th, only one piece is allowed, max weight 23kg. That's fine so far, but there is no clarification if you can carry more bags for free as long as the 23kg limit is not exceeded. So if I have a bag of apples that weighs 10kg and a bag of oranges that weighs 10kg, and don't want to mix apples with oranges, do I have to pay the ridiculous £60 extra bag charge?

You have answered your own question One bag 23kg max included with ticket price, any additional bags extra payment required.
 
soups
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 21):
do I have to pay the ridiculous £60 extra bag charge?

Unfortunately yes.... or what some passengers do is attach the 2 bags together (Only in africa Smile)
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
LGW
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:50 am

The reduction in baggage allowance and sunsequent increase in excess baggage will earn BA somewhere in the region of £30m per year, this is another reason, as well as health and safety that the measure is coming in.
 
boacvc10
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 17):
or I pay the excess charges like every other passenger.

You obviously assumed that due to my questions, I had neither the capability nor the intention to comply with the rules of excess baggage, despite having requested to pay the difference.

The final tally, verifiable if there were any video cameras recording this incident at that time, at the check-in counter, was 32.5 Kg for ONE of the 2 pieces checked in, and the counter agent asked my XYL to unload that .5 Kg and getting an ok from the lone pre-check-in-counter staff person as to the exact weight. I would like to point out that I offered to pay for the excess freight, for 0.5 Kg, but the answer was, NO - please take out stuff from your baggage until it was 32 Kg or lower. So, I am sure the BA folks will now have an opportunity to congratulate their friends at IAD for doing a good job thusly: asking a 130 lb, 35 year old woman who is escorting her 75 year old mother to haul the luggage off the weighing station back onto the cart to roll it to the weighing station by the outer windows, and then waiting for her to complete the process before granting her permission to proceed to have the baggage checked by the TSA. And this gate agent was over 250 lbs in weight and could sub for a body builder or weight lifting champion, never once did he even touch the stuff. You call this service, BA Service ?

Of course, most BA staff will say, if you don't like our policies - don't fly with us, so perhaps that is why most of "us" don't like flying with you actually. I already knew this answer was coming, and thought that this would be a good opportunity to have it recorded in the Airliners.net database so that it will show up in Google searches and give everybody else an opportunity to stay away from BA as far as possible.

Your arguments on 32 Kg vs. 23 Kg. don't hold up when you compare successful long haul airlines carrying (profitably, I might add) Y class pax with checked baggage in two PC (+ tier bonus PC) principle. And their service is something to write home about with a smile on *our* faces.

Now, if you say, J/F pax are more important than Y class, yes I do understand your point from a professional angle. After all one couldn't have high brow customers mix with the riff raff, lah ? Give me VS, Give me SQ, or give me anything but BA and LH !

I would like to quote a comment made on another website, discussing these new baggage restrictions: that includes a very pertinent fact, clothes, we can take less of anytime, difficult but possible. What about technical papers, conference proceedings, journals, etc, stuff that Researchers like myself use in during presentations, meetings including projection equipment (sometimes).

See Post 94, 95 on Flyertalk forum

Also, the weight of the suitcase itself cannot be 0.00 Kg it has to weigh something, so unless the BA folks are advocating taking only under clothes and then everything else, it doesn't make sense. Why does SQ have the ability to use automation to ensure things work smoothly and not cause employee injury and BA doesn't - ?


BOACVC10
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PanAmOldDC8
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
You obviously assumed that due to my questions, I had neither the capability nor the intention to comply with the rules of excess baggage, despite having requested to pay the difference

My God, man, what the hell are you moving your house? When I travel I have a carry on and a small suitcase. When on holiday I have one suitcase 10 kgs and not more. I hate luggage and have finally got my wife,after years of travel down to 1 suitcase as well. People travel with too much baggage and it is a pain in the a** to wait for at the arrivals hall
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
sebring
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 9):

I am tempted to give the keyboard to my XYL so that she can write in some choice words which will probably burn your keyboard, but to keep some form of civility in this forum, (BTW, thanks for your comments on my post), the luggage consisted mostly of toy's for our young tot's in four families and candy and cosmetic gifts for the all individual members spread around the places in our home country.   

I would assume you have family obligations as well, and perhaps you have a large sized family, so if you visit them once every two years, would you not consider bringing each a small gift ? And of course, there is the issue of weight of the clothes, if the pax is going away for four months, do you want to say that you don't take any clean clothes / coats with you on long trips ?   

BOACVC10

Here's the bottom line. Fuel is now most airlines' number one expense. Luggage is weight. If the airlines have a 32 kilo per bag, two bag limit, versus 2 x 23kg, the weight difference is 24 kilos per passenger. If the limit is 1 x 23kg, that's 47 kilo per passenger. if there are 400 passengers - even children have a baggage allowance that their parents freely use even though the kids don't give gifts or ship toasters - you are talking about a weight difference of almost 2,000 kilos or about two tonnes. Any aircraft will burn more fuel carrying those two extra tonnes. Alternatively, those two tonnes take up space that could go to revenue cargo. Either way, it's an economic drain for the airlines.

Secondly, the cost is borne by all passengers, even the passengers who have 1 15 kg bag. Therefore, I as a passenger with modest amounts of luggage are subsidizing you with large amounts of luggage. When fuel was based on $12 crude oil, that wasn't much, but at today's rates and the likelihood of more expensive crude in the future, it's a growing issue.

Air Canada, for one, will give you a rebate domestically if you choose not to check luggage. So it's not an insignificant issue as you paint it to be.

Air Canada found in its research that the real cost of carrying luggage was greater than anticipated, and brought its weight limits in line with the real cost of carriage and the fare paid. It also raised excess baggage charges to bring them in line with the real cost of carrying extra bags. Yes, those charges can be a shocker, and it will force people to change habits with respect to intercontinental travel, but in the end it benefits the vast majority by keeping air travel affordable. (Air Canada also charges a fortune now for carrying pets in the hold because it found that it was only recovering a fraction of the cost of the specialized handling required for pets.)

I think it's true that the airlines want you to change your habits as a traveller. If they had their druthers, there would be no excess baggage possibility at all, except through the cargo stream. (Air Canada's person-days lost as a result of back problems suffered by baggage handlers has slumped significantly since the lower allowances went into effect.)

With the US promising increased security for baggage and cargo going in the hold of passenger flights, I expect the baggage allowances to be compacted to the absolute minimum.

So what is a traveller to do if he or she is from a culture that requires them to bring gifts for each member of an extended family, or to bring back consumer goods that they can't get in the Old Country?

Well, not much. Often, they can buy clothes more cheaply in the old country, so maybe it makes more sense to pack less outbound to make room for gifts and then return home with new clothing purchased in the Old Country.

Another option is the freight stream. If you know you are going to the Old Country for an extended period, pack a few suitcases of clothing well in advance and ship them via an ethnic freight forwarder. When my stepdaughter moved to Lahore for a year, she shipped three suitcases of clothing ahead of her (about three weeks ahead of time) using a small freight forwarder that specialized in Pakistan. Everything arrived intact, only a few days after her arrival and she received door to door service for less than the cost of the airlines' excess baggage charges.

Beyond that, accept that the world is changing. Instead of buying everyone gifts, explain the situation to your relatives and find another way to show appreciation for their hospitality.
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
My question is, what the hell are you packing that causes your bag to weigh over 32kg??? I've travelled overseas many times and my bag is NEVER even close to 32kg. It's not Draconian, it's common sense.

Very patronizing of you to say so. Just because you don't pack much doesn't mean that's the right way. I wear a Rolex watch but some guy might say: "I wear a Timex and it gives me the time just as well". If you can pack under 32 kg good for you. We can't. Every time we travel we are over 32 kg and they let me through because of my Elite/gold status and everytime the airline tells me that next time I should stick to the 32 kg limit. When we travel we shop like crazy and go over the weight limit.
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 28):
When we travel we shop like crazy and go over the weight limit.

How arrogant of you to expect other flyers to subsidize your shopping trips.
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 29):
How arrogant of you to expect other flyers to subsidize your shopping trips.

Just as arrogant as airlines charging an astronomical amount for a J ticket and then nickel and dime me for baggage allowance. My issue is not with other travellers but with the airlines. Chillout.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 28):
Every time we travel we are over 32 kg and they let me through because of my Elite/gold status and everytime the airline tells me that next time I should stick to the 32 kg limit. When we travel we shop like crazy and go over the weight limit.

Must be nice to have a lot of money to spend on trivial things. Don't mean this as an offense. But when I worked for Pan Am I hated to see people with large suitcases stuffed to overflowing, the people that have to lift them are the ones that suffer. I think that every time you are overweight you should have to pay the full costs, regardless of whether you hold Gold or not
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1940
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 21):
What I don't understand is the European/Domestic allowance. From Feb 13th, only one piece is allowed, max weight 23kg.

FR and Sterling are going down to 15kgs these days IIRC. Watch other airlines follow suit. Enjoy the 23kgs while they last...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
AJMIA
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 17):
or I pay the excess charges like every other passenger.

You obviously assumed that due to my questions, I had neither the capability nor the intention to comply with the rules of excess baggage, despite having requested to pay the difference.

I don't believe he assumes you do not have the capability or intention to pay for your excess bag weight. I think he is reinforcing the fact that as an airline employee these baggage standards apply to him as well. Many people believe that airline employees receive all goods and services from the airline entirely free and that is simply not the case.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
I think fuel consumption is the main reason, but you're right that health and safety comes into play as well, injury rates were getting ridiculous. As a ramper I get a little bit irked when people complain that they can't check a bag that weighs nearly 100lbs, seemingly without a care for the people who have to lift it into the awkward/small cargo hold of an airplane.

When you have a ramp staff with 12% of your work force out with injury on duty issues you bet health and safety comes into play more and more! If you have trouble lifting your bags, imagine some poor guy on the ramp lifting it and bags similar to it eight hours a day five days a week; lots of repetitive stress injuries there.

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
Your arguments on 32 Kg vs. 23 Kg. don't hold up when you compare successful long haul airlines carrying (profitably, I might add) Y class pax with checked baggage in two PC (+ tier bonus PC) principle.

The arguments don't hold up in a vacuum, but if you consider the various airlines operating costs, route structure, labor laws, contract rules and fare structure it probably will hold up.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 27):
Therefore, I as a passenger with modest amounts of luggage are subsidizing you with large amounts of luggage.

Very true. Maybe ticket prices should be reduced and include NO free baggage allowance and you should pay per pound for everything you take on. I for one would rethink a lot of my packing if that was the case.

One of my biggest frustrations is when passengers come to me with lots of very heavy or excess bags and then try to convince, cajole or threaten me to waive the excess. A couple of lbs here and there is not such a big deal, but...
1. I do not set company policy.
2. I will not intentionally make a mistake just because you tell me someone neglected to charge you on an earlier flight.
3. When I go to the post office with a package they weigh it, measure it and tell me how much it is to send it. I pay. I do not argue or beg with them, repack it, or try to convince them to take it for free or reduce the charge.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
naritaflyer
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:17 am

I'm sorry but the argument of obeying the rules does not apply here. First of all, when I go to a restaurant or hotel and have a good time I leave a large tip (in japan we don't tip so this example applies to countries outside of Japan) and I'm happy. Every time that I fly an airline I feel there is some rivalry. Airlines and its employees should understand that without customers they don't exist. I fly very often and even though the check-in crew at NRT are extremely polite and nice (to everyone not just to me because I fly a lot) I don't feel like I am welcome. Don't take offence if you are not Japanese because when you are used to the service in Japan it's hard to get used to the service you get in North America and Europe, airline personnel are not customer oriented. Airlines are constantly giving you less and less and making you pay more and more. Fuel price is up, get over it. Buy new aircraft that does not burn a lot of fuel. Just because fuel is up I'm not paying more for taxis. I think airlines are dishonest and I will not rollover and play dead while they pick my pocket.

[Edited 2007-01-12 19:19:40]
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
My question is, what the hell are you packing that causes your bag to weigh over 32kg??? I've travelled overseas many times and my bag is NEVER even close to 32kg. It's not Draconian, it's common sense.

Move to another country. You'll find you're leaving crap behind even with 32 in the bag and 6 in the carry on. I did it last year. The QF baggage moving machine won't move the bag from the checkin counter if it's above 32kg.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
soups
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RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:31 am

an empty bag is 6-7kilos alone, so usually its 16kilos you are entitled.
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 34):
Just because fuel is up I'm not paying more for taxis. I think airlines are dishonest and I will not rollover and play dead while they pick my pocket.

I don't know what planet you're living on, but in this part of the world, taxi fares have gone up with fuel. So has bus fare, rail fares, the cost of shipping by courier and so on. Foodstuff trucked long distances costs more. Perhaps in Japan's unique economy some government agency is eating your fuel bill, but I can assure you that in most parts of the world this is not the case. As for your advice to airlines to just go out any buy more fuel efficient planes, this is happening at the rate the airlines can afford to do so. You probably didn't notice that the industry hasn't made a lot of money the past few years, and many carriers have been through a bankruptcy restructuring. Even at that, the Boeing order book is full, full, full - 787s are backordered into the middle of the next decade. And Airbus doesn't have a product to replace models that are using technology that is 10-20 years old, although the 350 will change that. Under the circumstances, I don't see what more the airlines could do.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 34):
Buy new aircraft that does not burn a lot of fuel. Just because fuel is up I'm not paying more for taxis. I think airlines are dishonest and I will not rollover and play dead while

Airlines are in the business of making money not losing it and if they have to burn extra fuel that costs money, which you the passenger will pay for in higher fares.SO what do you want cheaper fares or cheaper overweight costs?The fuel tax although I agree in some cases is excessive that does not mean that they they can absorbed this all the time. You, as a business man should understand that much
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
boacvc10
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:31 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 36):
an empty bag is 6-7kilos alone

I was thinking long and hard about this fact, as I read the responses from a.netters: the empty weight of the roll-on bags with wheels and handles that take up so much valuable allowance.

Should we now investigate lightweight suitcases which are made out of plastic / polycarbonate materials and have a low empty weight ? What about canvas duffel bags that we can simply stuff clothes into ? The real problem is of course the need to keep suits pressed and trendy fashion dresses in presentable condition. I am sure the a.netters who are "happy" with 23 Kg of allowance, actually don't believe this is important or perhaps their trips are actually quite short in length, so they don't bother. Of course, they probably don't travel with their kids, who want to take cell phones, DVD players, gameboys, chargers (how many!), books to read, etc. By the way, if checked baggage has limitations, and cabin baggage is limited, are we not forced to reconsider our desire to buy a Novel (say: the latest Clive Cussler bestseller) since it would be (a) as a big as small bag (b) weigh 0.25 Kg from the airport bookstore, in case it is declared excess baggage ?

Should the clothes that we buy have to be listed with a Net Weight, so that we can add in the total weight of all the clothes we carry, as part of our luggage manifest ? Should we apply to the airlines, in advance, for permission to carry our X Kg of luggage on board ? The mind boggles with ways on how to make the evil BA accountants happy.

I wager, the "23 Kg club" are probably not even interested in buying a newspaper for reading during the flight, or purchasing a Cosmo as it might be too heavy for them, or *gasp* purchasing any food/candy for their children, just in case they have to carry an extra bag or two, the weight of all those unnecessary items would probably set off an alarm and delay the flight beyond expectations. Horrors  devil  !

BOACVC10
Up, up and Away!
 
boacvc10
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:31 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 38):
SO what do you want cheaper fares or cheaper overweight costs?

The passengers who travel long-haul are not going for a short vacation (1-2 days, or 1-2 weeks), that is a given fact, you don't travel 12,000 miles just to have a meeting and then fly back immediately thereafter. It happens, but extremely rare. Okay, I admit I did, in 24 hours, (CAI-DXB-SIN-JNB-LOS, on SQ/SA) - you go for a vacation, family trips and so forth.

Long haul airlines need to recognise this fact and factor their ticket prices accordingly. BTW, the price difference between BA Y IAD/LHR/DAC RT and SQ Y DCA/EWR/SIN/DAC RT is about $400 in one configuration, so it is a fact that pax have a choice to travel, and if $400 gets them 2 x 32 Kg, with no hassles, bonus allowance and frequent flyer miles, they are proving to be a big customer on SQ, and foregoing the BA restrictions (out of LHR) with no chance of mileage accrual.

Anybody agree with me on this point?

BOACVC10
Up, up and Away!
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 34):
Airlines are constantly giving you less and less and making you pay more and more. Fuel price is up, get over it. Buy new aircraft that does not burn a lot of fuel. Just because fuel is up I'm not paying more for taxis. I think airlines are dishonest and I will not rollover and play dead while they pick my pocket

IMO opinion airfares are less expensive than ever, quite how do you feel that airlines are dishonest, when taking the industry as a whole, the profitability is so poor ?

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 39):
Should we now investigate lightweight suitcases which are made out of plastic / polycarbonate materials and have a low empty weight ? What about canvas duffel bags that we can simply stuff clothes into ? The real problem is of course the need to keep suits pressed and trendy fashion dresses in presentable condition. I am sure the a.netters who are "happy" with 23 Kg of allowance, actually don't believe this is important or perhaps their trips are actually quite short in length, so they don't bother. Of course, they probably don't travel with their kids, who want to take cell phones, DVD players, gameboys, chargers (how many!), books to read, etc. By the way, if checked baggage has limitations, and cabin baggage is limited, are we not forced to reconsider our desire to buy a Novel (say: the latest Clive Cussler bestseller) since it would be (a) as a big as small bag (b) weigh 0.25 Kg from the airport bookstore, in case it is declared excess baggage ?

Should the clothes that we buy have to be listed with a Net Weight, so that we can add in the total weight of all the clothes we carry, as part of our luggage manifest ? Should we apply to the airlines, in advance, for permission to carry our X Kg of luggage on board ? The mind boggles with ways on how to make the evil BA accountants happy.

I wager, the "23 Kg club" are probably not even interested in buying a newspaper for reading during the flight, or purchasing a Cosmo as it might be too heavy for them, or *gasp* purchasing any food/candy for their children, just in case they have to carry an extra bag or two, the weight of all those unnecessary items would probably set off an alarm and delay the flight beyond expectations. Horrors !

I'm a member of the 23kg club and proud of it !!! You may be surprised to know that I am literate (just) run my own business, dress reasonably smartly, and have a child with heaps of possessions. I buy books to read on the plane and a newspaper as well.

In the past my wife has taken all bar the kitchen sink on holiday, we used to push trolleys laden with bags through airports taking heaps of clothing "just in case". After getting fed up with this we each now travel with one wheelie case to check in, and a small wheelie case for cabin baggage. You should try it its far less stressful.

Quoting Soups (Reply 36):
an empty bag is 6-7kilos alone, so usually its 16kilos you are entitled.

We had bags like this, until we bought some half the weight.
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 38):
Airlines are in the business of making money not losing it and if they have to burn extra fuel that costs money, which you the passenger will pay for in higher fares.SO what do you want cheaper fares or cheaper overweight costs?The fuel tax although I agree in some cases is excessive that does not mean that they they can absorbed this all the time. You, as a business man should understand that much

Don't get me wrong I understand business and I understand airline economics. I just don't trust airlines. I don't believe what they say. They are trying to sell me an overpriced product which is air transportation. I don't believe them, I don't trust them so I wont feel sorry for them. Like I said, I will not rollover and play dead while they pick my pocket.
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:51 am

Rant on.

So, my company just paid about USD12k for a biz ticket MCO-MIA-LHR-LAD, where I'm basing for 6 months. I brought tools and test equipment, some clothes, the weight limits are a laugh.

Is BA and the other airlines hiring a bunch of light in the loafers types or "baggage handlers"?

You have to maintain a certain level of fitness for some jobs, like being a fireman or a cop. I'm not sure why BA, and other airlines hire people that can't lift heavy objects, I thought that was their job.

Flame me, but when I was 15 I did more work part time making hay on a dairy, throwing bails onto the top row of a wagon, then into the loft, the bails weighed about 40 pounds a piece and I would have to throw them about 12-15 into feet in the air, where another guy would have to catch it to stack it.

Get some brutes that can lift luggage.

Rant off.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 43):
So, my company just paid about USD12k for a biz ticket MCO-MIA-LHR-LAD, where I'm basing for 6 months. I brought tools and test equipment, some clothes, the weight limits are a laugh.

If they can afford 12k to send you j class, they can afford to pay the excess baggage or fed ex your tools.

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 43):
Is BA and the other airlines hiring a bunch of light in the loafers types or "baggage handlers"?

Its a bit more difficult than lifting your screwdriver, and with regard to throwing hay bales 12 feet in the air, they must have very different aerodynamics to UK ones.
 
JER757
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:48 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 42):
They are trying to sell me an overpriced product which is air transportation.

Operating an airline is an EXTREMELY expensive business, particularly short haul. Most LCC's are down to ~20Kg due to the extra cost incurred in flying extra baggage. We are now seeing full service airlines such as BA doing what they have to to compete, (one factor is baggage allowance) or they simply won't exist for much longer.

There is also a legal situation with accepting bags weighing over the current allowance (32kg). If a loader is injured whilst handling a bag only slightly more than this it leaves the airline/handling agent open to law suits etc. Plus I know of plenty of loaders who have ended up with bad back problems from handling bags <32kg day in day out for years.

Plus 23Kg for short haul is plenty - I moved back to uni the other day and for three months my bag was 26kg (including 2 heavy text books) and only a laptop as carry on. If my colleagues were being pedantic, and believe me they need to be, I could have easily shed a couple of kilos into a carry on bag.

Its one of those things that people will have to get used to, like e-tickets and SSCI the public will hate it at first, but it will become part and parcel of travelling... like it or not.
Gale force fog... don't you love it?
 
cusaeng
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:27 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
was 32.5 Kg

and i am sure if she looked at the ticket it would have 32 kg not 32.5 printed on it. thats what she payed for and thats the rules.


Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
You call this service, BA Service ?

no we call it a rule that was agreed to when the ticket was sold to her.

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 31):
the people that have to lift them are the ones that suffer

 checkmark 
ok so it would have been a bit petty for them to charge her for extra 0.50 kg but we have the limit of 32 kg for a reason. people have to lift those bags all day.
thats the rule you agree to, if you dont like it dont fly.
I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
 
manny
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
My question is, what the hell are you packing that causes your bag to weigh over 32kg??? I've travelled overseas many times and my bag is NEVER even close to 32kg.

Good for you. But that does not mean every human being on the planet should adhere to that.

Quoting LGW (Reply 10):
Absolute, unfounded rubbish.

Its an observation. Unless you were there with him how can call it be unfounded rubbish.

Quoting LGW (Reply 10):
You pay money to travel overseas and who offers you the opportunity to do so? The airlines, they are businesses and they put rules in place they want/need to as with any industry, if you don't like BA's baggage policy and prefer other carriers then fly them, I can't imagine it will be long until 23kgs becomes the industry average.

Next time i travel i am going to thank the airlines for the opportunity they provide me to travel overseas for USD 10000 plus. Get real!

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
As a ramper I get a little bit irked when people complain that they can't check a bag that weighs nearly 100lbs, seemingly without a care for the people who have to lift it into the awkward/small cargo hold of an airplane.

If you do not like what you are doing or unfortunately its physically taxing you, don't you think you should do something else. Travellers are going to make choices based on their needs & requirements. And they pay for the ride. They should not have to bother about the logistics of the operation as long as they are complying with the airline rules.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
I think fuel consumption is the main reason, but you're right that health and safety comes into play as well, injury rates were getting ridiculous.

Correct. Fuel consumption is the main reason. The other main reason could be law of the land. Injury rates might only count if it hurts operation of the airline, not because it hurts the employees.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 41):
the past my wife has taken all bar the kitchen sink on holiday, we used to push trolleys laden with bags through airports taking heaps of clothing "just in case". After getting fed up with this we each now travel with one wheelie case to check in, and a small wheelie case for cabin baggage. You should try it its far less stressful.

My point exactly, see my earlier posting. Got sick and tired of pulling suitcases around airports. Told the wife one day that we would buy what we need when we get there, usually left half the stuff behind. So it is one suitcase each and one small carry on
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: BA To Reduce Checked Baggage Allowance?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 42):
They are trying to sell me an overpriced product which is air transportation. I don't believe them, I don't trust them so I wont feel sorry for them. Like I said, I will not rollover and play dead while they pick my pocket.

We are lucky these days, remember the days when air fare was twice what it is today and people still traveled, not as many as now,however. I know your feeling I get fed up sometimes with the airlines when I feel that I am getting ripped off. But I think back to when I paid the fares of yesteryear and that calms me down. Try it, it might work for you
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait