tu154
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Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:28 am

Very interesting article by the Motley Fool found at Yahoo biz news. This is going to be a very interesting year for the industry.
If link no good, full text posted on next post.


http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...e=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

[Edited 2007-01-12 21:37:32]
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 1):
Link may be bad,

The link worked okay. Actually if merging with NW isn't an option, then the creditors are best left with a stand alone DL. Despite the likely objections the HP/US fans on these threads will say, a US takeover of DL is not a the best option for the flying public in the USA.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
DALelite
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:28 am

I had the same thoughts few day's ago when US increased their take-over offer.
Then, I remembered the day's in early April 06. At that thime it was very uncertain if DL would escape.
In the end i hope that the creditors will be on the DL side and vote for DL!!
And i hope that they will keep Delta my Delta too.

regards: DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
US takeover of DL is not a the best option for the flying public in the USA.

I have to agree with that. I think delta and Northwest are a much better fit for numerous reasons
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
Flyawa
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:31 am

Why didn't US go after NW? It also seems to be a more logical fit than DL.
Better than most, not as good as some.
 
COERJ145
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting FLYAWA (Reply 4):
Why didn't US go after NW?

Labor issues.
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:46 am

Can't these threads be consolidated (no pun intended) into one...this horse is already 6 feet under.
 
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mariner
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
a US takeover of DL is not a the best option for the flying public in the USA.

What does it have to do with the travelling public?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
congaboy
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 3):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 2):
US takeover of DL is not a the best option for the flying public in the USA.

I have to agree with that. I think delta and Northwest are a much better fit for numerous reasons

Right, and the article never mentions the hurdles of a US/DL merger. Here are my thoughts on an NW/DL merger being much more favorable than a US/DL:
1/ Anti-trust issues...the shuttle in particular...not a good development for the flying public at all.
2/ CLT or ATL hub getting the ax...again, not a good development for the community.
3/ Fleet compatibility...probably an issue for both NW and US, but more so for US with more Airbus types.
4/ Route compatability...someone hinted this earlier (FLYAWA), and mentioned in the article. US presents more route "incompatability"...alot of over-lap.
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting DALelite (Reply 2):
I had the same thoughts few day's ago when US increased their take-over offer.

Big version: Width: 450 Height: 318 File size: 55kb
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From this mornings Salt Lake Tribune!
http://extras.sltrib.com/bagley/Archive.asp?Vol=content&Num=6
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727LOVER
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:35 am

With each passing day, it becomes increasingly likely that Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, will soon be no more.

But isn't the DELTA name to kept? Or is he talking about just as a corporation.

Saddam's last words:
KEEP DELTA MY D... (YOINK!)
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 10):
But isn't the DELTA name to kept? Or is he talking about just as a corporation.

Since when is re-badging a Yugo a Lexus make it better?
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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STT757
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting FLYAWA (Reply 4):
Why didn't US go after NW?

As mentioned labor issues, DL is a take over target because it's the least Unionized of the Major carriers. Lack of Union representation makes merging labor groups and altering pay and benefit packages easier.

NWA is heavily Unionized with some bad relations currently between management and the employee Unions.

Delta is a perfect fit for US Airways as far as investors are concerned because both are non Union, which is the biggest cost and risk issue regards to the airline industry.

If CO, UAL or AA were to try and takeover Delta it would not be as attractive because of the current Unions at the respective airlines, DL+NWA= DL with NWA's labor problems. Not good, DL has enough problems.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
klkla
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Delta is a perfect fit for US Airways as far as investors are concerned because both are non Union, which is the biggest cost and risk issue regards to the airline industry.

Are your sure about USAir being non union? I thought most of their employees were unionized. I know their pilots and FAs are.

I think the only major unionized group at Delta are the pilots.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting Klkla (Reply 13):
I think the only major unionized group at Delta are the pilots.

The dispatchers are likewise unionized at DL. Despite several attempts to organize the F/As, DL remains for the most part a union free shop.

Quoting Klkla (Reply 13):
Are your sure about USAir being non union? I thought most of their employees were unionized. I know their pilots and FAs are.

The HP groups of employees and the US group of employees are in different unions. Fights have even broke out between the two groups of baggage handlers at meetings. So hence Parker's reluctance to add another heavily unionized carrier into the foray is perhaps the biggest reason aside from completely eliminating a competitor for going after DL instead of NW.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
Evan767
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):

Hahahaha, I love it.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 5):
Quoting FLYAWA (Reply 4):
Why didn't US go after NW?

Labor issues.

NW's labor union are some of the more stubborn and militant, and nearly everything at NW is unionized. If the unions don't support it, it is very difficult for anything to take place, and my understanding is that the Doug Parker management team is not exactly revered by employee groups. NW's unions aren't incredibly fond of their current management, but I think they realize the spectre of Parker is worse, that said, perhaps they don't have the most negative view of DL's management. NW is the idea merger target, in my opinion, the airline is worth much more than it is currently valued at, and God knows, six months ago it would have been a true steal.

US doesn't even have its own labor issues worked out in house from the HP/US merger yet, they sure as heck don't want to throw the NW mergers into that, their airline could very well stop flying.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 10):
But isn't the DELTA name to kept? Or is he talking about just as a corporation.

Since when is re-badging a Yugo a Lexus make it better?

Well, I mean, a Lexus is just a rebadged Toyota.... then again, a Toyota seems to be superior to a Yugo.

Doug Parker has already done a number on US Airways, if he destroys Delta, I really will be very sad. He's foolishly too aggressive.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
Quoting Klkla (Reply 13):
I think the only major unionized group at Delta are the pilots.

The dispatchers are likewise unionized at DL. Despite several attempts to organize the F/As, DL remains for the most part a union free shop.

Quoting Klkla (Reply 13):
Are your sure about USAir being non union? I thought most of their employees were unionized. I know their pilots and FAs are.

The HP groups of employees and the US group of employees are in different unions. Fights have even broke out between the two groups of baggage handlers at meetings. So hence Parker's reluctance to add another heavily unionized carrier into the foray is perhaps the biggest reason aside from completely eliminating a competitor for going after DL instead of NW.

Labor issues steered US to go for DL, but do you honestly believe, even if they could get the creditors to go for the deal, that the regulators would let the merger happen? There would be very little competition left in the southeast, drastically reduced competiton in the mid-atlantic and northeast, less competition across the atlantic, I don't know.

And they are going to have to drag Boeing and the Pilots Association, two of DL's largest creditors, kicking and screaming into an arrangement where DL is taken over by US.... I'm not sure how well conceived this whole arrangement was. Labor issues aside, NW was a much easier target. I just don't think this US/DL thing will ever happen.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
ophila
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:10 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
, DL+NWA= DL with NWA's labor problems. Not good, DL has enough problems


excatly
 
Cincinnati747
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:18 pm

One reason because NW wouldnt go after Delta is because their fleets are pretty much completely opposite
 
JayDub
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
a US takeover of DL is not a the best option for the flying public in the USA.

As much as I don't want to see DL in it's current state go (they are my ride home, afterall), I don't think the creditors give a flip about the flying public. Just like most management doesn't give a flip about the low-level employee. They all care about one thing:  dollarsign . Nothing more, nothing less.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 10):
Saddam's last words:
KEEP DELTA MY D... (YOINK!)

Wow...abrasive and over the top...right up my alley!
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
cba
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 8):
Fleet compatibility...probably an issue for both NW and US, but more so for US with more Airbus types.

I don't see how that's an issue, both airlines operate the same number of Airbus types, the A320 family and the A330 family.

In either situation, it'd be interesting to see what becomes of the fleet. I'm not sure about the number of 737's that DL operates, but seeing that both US and NW operate at least two different A32X types, I wouldn't be surprised to see the narrowbody fleet become all-Airbus after DL replaces its MD-80's. The widebody fleet will be slightly more complicated. Although Delta has just ordered more 777's, their fleet of the type is still relatively small. However, US has a small fleet of A330's, and I'm not sure about NW's numbers.

In either case, I can't see the 777 being phased out, as the A330 is incapable of the longer-range flights. In the case of NW, the 332 would stay. In the case of NW or US, we could be looking at a similar plan to what Air France has in utilizing both the A340 and 772.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):
Labor issues steered US to go for DL, but do you honestly believe, even if they could get the creditors to go for the deal, that the regulators would let the merger happen?

I've stated time and again on these threads that if the DOJ allowed this merger, it wouldn't be until after a substantial divestiture took place. Back in 2000, the proposed US/UA would have been approved, but they would have had to unload a number of gates at DCA, something neither management team at the time wanted to do. I think many have been naive to think the DOJ will be more lenient nowadays post 9/11, but that is being incredibly silly.
With Parker seeking to eliminate competition, he is counting on WN, B6, FL & F9 to fill the void. While that will likely happen, it won't come over night.
"Building a Better Airline?" My @$$!

Quoting JayDub (Reply 19):
As much as I don't want to see DL in it's current state go (they are my ride home, after-all), I don't think the creditors give a flip about the flying public. Just like most management doesn't give a flip about the low-level employee. They all care about one thing: dollarsign . Nothing more, nothing less.

While what is the best and most assured financial deal is their bottom line, they aren't desperate to "cut and run" as some business types love to also assert on these threads. Many like Boeing, GE Capitol Finance and American Express have a much greater vested interest to see DL survive that they realize. It isn't quite like these financiers want what ever money they can get right now as if they're some bill collector harassing DL on the phone. Even with the 20% sweetening this past week, Doug Parker's offer still has too many risky strings attached that everyone and anyone on that creditors committee for DL knows about and is accessing very tightly.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
JayDub
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:18 pm

SLCUT2777, I hope you're right. I really do. I just don't have alot of faith in people when the almighty dollar is involved.

On a screen name related note...I flew through SLC yesterday afternoon. Was beautiful when the sun came through.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
AirRyan
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
Actually if merging with NW isn't an option, then the creditors are best left with a stand alone DL. Despite the likely objections the HP/US fans on these threads will say, a US takeover of DL is not a the best option for the flying public in the USA.

"Actually?" Id DL and NW merge than NW becomes the name of the carrier or at best some merged name of the two but to throw out both carriers names in sake of one new name would be wasting a lot of years marketing. If US buys DL than the DL name stays alive and the DL managment team goes, something that most will probably do anyways immediately after emergenace from Ch.11 so really, what is the big deal from DL's perspective if US buys DL to merge AS DL, and even after surrendering a variety of assets it would still create for a very large and thereby strong carrier? I'm just not seeing the problem here, DL employees have already lost about as much as one could lose and still remain employeed - how can US be anything but good for DL?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 21):
have had to unload a number of gates at DCA, something neither management team at the time wanted to do. I think many have been naive to think the DOJ will be more lenient nowadays post 9/11,

IF the DOJ tried to embelish their otherwise duties and prohibit carriers from merging in the current state of the US airline industry would be highly hypocritical and very irresponsible. The DOJ/DOT are the ones responsible for the quagmire that now exists in the industry and for them to prevent a plan that could lead to future prosperity would only leave one plausible scenario: federal re-regulation (because lets face it, the airline industry is still vastly regulated by the Feds) of the airline industry; hell maybe then all the carriers can merge under one name and we can just call it oh I don't know, US Airways?!  Smile
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:42 am

Why should legacies have to merge at all???

This is all hype from Wall Street and the media, plus a few oversized egos like Doug Parkers. Mergers are usually disasters. With the exception of DL/WA, I cant think of a US Merger/Buyout that went well..okok WN and MorrisAir...but aise from that, they generally dont work.


Mergers usually dont result in permanently lower capacity, so that argument is bogus.

Mergers benefit only lawyers and investment bankers
 
COewrAAtysAZ
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:17 am

"Then there's bankruptcy. For all the complaints about United CEO Glenn Tilton, he kept the airline in hock for years, to the point where the courts became a tool for reshaping the carrier in ways that wouldn't have otherwise been possible. United is healthier today as a result of that foot-dragging. Unfair, you say? Maybe so, but it's worked."

It ABSOLUTELY was unfair. There is no reason a company should be in bankruptcy for that long and then be able to come out and buy another company. United should have been put 6 feet under the ground many years ago.
Continental Airlines: Trabajar con empe�?��?�±o, Volar con Pasi�?��?�³n
 
funflyer
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Klkla (Reply 13):
Are your sure about USAir being non union? I thought most of their employees were unionized. I know their pilots and FAs are.

I start Tuesday at MHT for USAir as a FSA-Fleet Service Agent, I'm definatly in a union. Internation Association of Something or other.
Who cares about status?
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 23):
IF the DOJ tried to embelish their otherwise duties and prohibit carriers from merging in the current state of the US airline industry would be highly hypocritical and very irresponsible.

I think what some of us are trying to say is that the DOJ will not allow this merger. A merger between US and DL would give the larger carrier with an overpowering amount of the east coast traffic that would hurt the consumer. I think the DOJ is open to mergers of this magnitude just alittle on edge about this particular one.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 24):
Why should legacies have to merge at all???

When you find the answer let us know, because I have wondering the same thing for a while now.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 23):
"Actually?" Id DL and NW merge than NW becomes the name of the carrier or at best some merged name of the two

why do you say that? I don't think that NW has a much better name than delta except for in asia, but other than that I don't think the NW name is any better than delta and in some places even worse. I know that in my home town where NW handles over 50% of the traffic, most people hate the service and would prefer something else if it was available.

In relation to your whole post. I think your right to a certain extent but I ask what would be so horrible about a DL/NW merger too. My biggest fear of the US/DL merger is the enormous market share of the east coast that the new airline would have and maybe it wouldn't be quite as bad as I think, but with NW there isn't that fear at all, which in my mind makes more sense.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 24):
Why should legacies have to merge at all???

Because according to all the armchair CEOs on a.net and other aviation forums, this is the only way to clear the market of overcapacity and reduce competition.
Of course, many forget to mention that when Legacy carriers drop capacity, LCCs come in and bring that capacity right back. Not to mention that yields, through higher ticket prices, have actually improved, and all those improvements would be gone once LCCs enter new/more markets.
And of course, this means using logic, which is a component that is seriously lacking on here, particularly in the US/DL merger stuff, mostly from US-supporters, but to a certain degree also DL supporters.
 
cba
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 24):
Mergers benefit only lawyers and investment bankers

And that's why the world has too many lawyers and bankers. Management Consultants also make a killing off of those mergers.

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Reply 25):
"Then there's bankruptcy. For all the complaints about United CEO Glenn Tilton, he kept the airline in hock for years, to the point where the courts became a tool for reshaping the carrier in ways that wouldn't have otherwise been possible. United is healthier today as a result of that foot-dragging. Unfair, you say? Maybe so, but it's worked."

It ABSOLUTELY was unfair. There is no reason a company should be in bankruptcy for that long and then be able to come out and buy another company. United should have been put 6 feet under the ground many years ago.

Nothing like taking a dead company and giving it second life at the expense of the taxpayers. When individuals and small businesses can't pay their bills, they go broke and everything gets liquidated. Hell I wish I could get a year to restructure my debts and get a fresh start at the expense of uncle sam.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 24):
"Actually?" Id DL and NW merge than NW becomes the name of the carrier or at best some merged name of the two but to throw out both carriers names in sake of one new name would be wasting a lot of years marketing. If US buys DL than the DL name stays alive and the DL managment team goes, something that most will probably do anyways immediately after emergenace from Ch.11 so really, what is the big deal from DL's perspective if US buys DL to merge AS DL, and even after surrendering a variety of assets it would still create for a very large and thereby strong carrier? I'm just not seeing the problem here, DL employees have already lost about as much as one could lose and still remain employeed - how can US be anything but good for DL?

I really think its a little to early to say the name will be NW. Having said that mt grandad work for delta for and he said that they told him they would never merge with someone and not keep the Delta name. it would only make sense to keep the name for the Asia flights. Delta is the largest (American)carier in Europe. If i had to guess they would keep the Delta name.

Fleet wise i dont see DLs 737s leaving. I see a mixed Airbus and boeing fleet for a little then they airbus being replaced by Boeings(plaese remember delta dose not deal with airbus) and i dont see all of Deltas management leaving.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting JayDub (Reply 19):
As much as I don't want to see DL in it's current state go (they are my ride home, afterall), I don't think the creditors give a flip about the flying public. Just like most management doesn't give a flip about the low-level employee. They all care about one thing: . Nothing more, nothing less.

I have to agree with this statement.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
bmacleod
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:16 am

In the end DL or NW will have to merge. Both cannot survive alone. However DL may have a prickly time integrating all those Airbuses; being a loyal Boeing/McDD customer for its entire history.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 30):
really think its a little to early to say the name will be NW

mmmmmm...that isnt my quote
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 32):
In the end DL or NW will have to merge. Both cannot survive alone.

I don't agree I think that any carrier with the right plan can standalone in this industry. I think that this whole merger thing is a lot of hipe with no action. As many have said TIME will tell us what will be the ending factor.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting FLYAWA (Reply 4):
Why didn't US go after NW? It also seems to be a more logical fit than DL.

because they really want to eliminate a competitor and give US a future... the irony is that because they went after DL - and they will lose - they will find the industry consolidating - and they will be left out - just exactly what they tried to prevent from happening.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
What does it have to do with the travelling public?

because airlines still hold certificates of public convenience. they exist to serve the public first and foremost.

US' proposal is no different than what Carl Icahn and Frank Lorenzo did in the 90s - and Congress can see that. However, not even Icahn and Lorenzo had the guts to eliminate a competitor and load it up with debt so that it is certain to fail.

Doug Parker has no solid track record of running an airline. one year of profits after years of two airlines losing money is hardly a success story - when most other airlines managed to be profitable as well.

Congress can and will say that they will not allow the consolidation of the industry in a way that harms the future prospects for the industry - even if it means US is hung out to dry.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
NWA is heavily Unionized with some bad relations currently between management and the employee Unions.

DL has eliminated more union jobs through mergers than any other airline in the US has ever. And yet those DL employee groups consistently have voted to not be represented by unions. Unions areapparently not what everyone likes to think they are.

The US bandwagon will continue its attacks until they are finally defeated - and DL will defeat them. Not only does DL have the Official creditors on its side, but it also has every government agency, and employee group. The employees of NW would only be too happy to merge with Delta and secure a solid future - as evidenced by the fact that DL ALPA and NW ALPA have been in merger plans for months.

DL will present its plan for industry consolidation that benefits all parties involved instead of just US stockholders. The Official Creditors and the government are interested in doing what makes sense not only for DL but for the entire industry. Parker will fail because he is doing what is in his best interests only; there are far too many people that have a stake in the outcome - and they will create a template for the industry that protects the interests of all - not just US.

Parker hasn't convinced DL's creditors that his plan is in their best interests in nearly two months of trying... he only has 18 days left and ALL the indications are that he is not winning.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 35):
Not only does DL have the Official creditors on its side, but it also has every government agency, and employee group.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 35):
Parker hasn't convinced DL's creditors that his plan is in their best interests in nearly two months of trying... he only has 18 days left and ALL the indications are that he is not winning.

I would love to believe these statements, but is there any proof of this?
It is what it is...
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 688
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RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
I would love to believe these statements, but is there any proof of this?

do you have any proof that those statements aren't totally true?
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 37):
do you have any proof that those statements aren't totally true?

I dont think anyone has any proof either way concerning the creditors or what the government is thinking. They might be true they might not be, but I for one cant believe anything either way without some kind of proof.
It is what it is...
 
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STT757
Posts: 13173
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:58 am

More attention needs to be paid to Gordon Bethune's role in this, he's not there to represent DL, he's there to represent their creditors. Gordon Bethune is the one responsible for US upping their offer, he told them in his usual "colorful" language that their initial bid was inadequate.

Bethune and Parker have been meeting, Bethune has always been Wall Street's darling because of his experience and success at Boeing and Continental, Parker is the new darling because of the money he has made investors through his deal with US Airways.

For those who are closely watching the events should look not towards Atlanta, Washington DC (Congress), or Phoenix for the outcome, look towards Manhattan where Bethune and Parker have been holding meetings at the offices of groups like Citigroup and Morgan Stanley who will be providing US Airways the financing.

The US Airways bid is real, with real support from some big investors. And the DL creditors are interested, otherwise Gordon Bethune (who is representing DL's creditors) would not securing larger bids from US Airways and working out how to quell any concerns the creditors might have with US Airways bid for DL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/business/11air.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

There's another article that appeared this week in the Wall Street Journal that again pointed to the significance of Gordon's direct face to face negotiations with Parker, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 38):
I dont think anyone has any proof either way concerning the creditors or what the government is thinking. They might be true they might not be, but I for one cant believe anything either way without some kind of proof.

I have to agree with you I was simply posing the question that I think more of us need to remember that we are just speculating on most of this stuff.

[Edited 2007-01-13 21:21:39]
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
baw716
Posts: 1459
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:15 am

Hi all,
Mariner is right. The US offer for DL has nothing to do with the flying public. That said, I agree that the deal is bad all around, except for US of course.

What the DL creditors have to decide is this:
1) Do they take the money that US offers them? I'm not versed on the particulars of how the transaction goes in terms of cash immediately for creditors, but the amount of debt the remaining airline will have is HUGE. In the long run, that may not be really good for DL's creditors.
2) Are they (the creditors) better off with a DL that is stronger, leaner and stands alone?
3) OR, are they better off merging with NW and making a leaner single airline that would give them a bigger Pacific presence, but leave them significantly in debt.

My feeling is that there might be some advantages to a NW/DL merger, but I'm not certain a) who will end up running the airline and b) whose brand will remain and c) how they reconcile the fleet issue, which is really BIG in my view.

The best arrangement, for all parties, IMHO, is a stand alone DL. It might take the creditors a while to get paid and receive a return on their investment, but the structure I've seen from DL so far seems to make sense to me. There are questions I have, but none to the degree I had when I saw the UA reorg plan.

This is all about creditors getting paid and shareholders receiving value for their investments. It is not about the flying public.

Now, having said the foregoing, depending upon what the creditors decide they want, they have to go to the judge and endorse a plan. Then it is the BK judge who must make the ultimate decision as to whose plan will win out in the end. US seems to think that by dangling the carrot in front of the creditors, they will be able to get the creditors to endorse their plan. IMHO, I just don't see it. Of course, I've been wrong before...but I believe the judge will go with the DL reorg plan. It seems sound and, absent a real good case for a NW merger, is the plan that gets DL out of BK the quickest and starts to get them on the road to recovery.

baw716

PS-Cheers to Mariner...who always has a very good sense about these things.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
brilondon
Posts: 3010
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 6):
Can't these threads be consolidated (no pun intended) into one...this horse is already 6 feet under.

If you don't like the thread which is started with the article don't participaate in it please.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 41):

nicely put I think you have hit the nail on the head.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3010
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Funflyer (Reply 26):
Internation Association of Something or other.

Good union. I think that I once belonged to that one too.  biggrin 
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
deltajet757
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:29 am

With each passing day, it becomes increasingly likely that Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, will soon be no more.

That's BS.

And like I said in an earlier post about US and DL...Parker is being a pest!
Leave Delta alone.

I wouldn't mind if Delta acquired/merged with NW (as long as Delta remains Delta) because DL would benefit from some more trans-pacific routes to Asia. Also DL would have 753's, 744's, DC-9's (maybe), more 752's and some Airbuses but I could care less about them.

Not to mention MSP and DTW.

 airplane   airplane   airplane   airplane   airplane  LONG LIVE DELTA!  airplane   airplane   airplane   airplane   airplane 

DELTAJET757
FLY DELTA JETS
 
LawnDart
Posts: 860
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:33 pm

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 46):
Just do a search there's already 100 threads about big bad US Airways trying to kill poor little Delta.

Just trying to catch up with Irish Aviation 137 and Peter Max XXXIIV... wink 
 
CroCop
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:42 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 5):
Quoting FLYAWA (Reply 4):
Why didn't US go after NW?

Labor issues.

I was under the impression that if DL and NW try anything, and DL is the aggressor they can break NWA's horrible unions. Is this not the case here?

Quoting Klkla (Reply 13):
I know their pilots and FAs are.

I know the US ramp is union, I dont think their public contact employees are though.
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:10 am

A Delta/Northwest merger? Oh wow, the Republic folks and the Western folks will have a grand old time comparing notes on who got screwed worse.
 
LawnDart
Posts: 860
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:33 pm

RE: Is Delta Nearly Done?

Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
Does being a Delta fan come with a side of Bon-Bon's too?

No, but you get a nifty "Keep Delta My Delta" button!  wink 

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 35):
because they really want to eliminate a competitor and give US a future... the irony is that because they went after DL - and they will lose - they will find the industry consolidating - and they will be left out - just exactly what they tried to prevent from happening.

Care to pass the crystal ball around?

Interesting scenario...if DL and NW do merge, and CO and UA merge, who's left for US? AA? Hardly (although I could make a case where that might be a reasonably good merger...strengthens AA in the Southwest and Northeast, and gives them a presence in the Southeast, where currently they don't really have one. I didn't say a strong presence in the Southeast...just a presence...).

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
I also find it humorous how US/HP fans are ridiculed yet when the DL folks get on board the whole world revolves around them.

I don't think that's true...I think Delta fans have taken just as much grief for supporting DL on this website as US fans have supporting US. Case in point:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
Does being a Delta fan come with a side of Bon-Bon's too?

Look familiar?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
In the end, I think it's all speculation and we won't know the outcome until it happens.

Amen, but speculating is fun, and it's what 99.999% of these forums are all about. If you don't want to speculate, don't. If you're tired of others speculating, stop reading these threads. It's that easy...

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