apodino
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Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:44 am

There is a rumor floating around that United has come back to Air Wisconsin and asked for a proposal for flying that would bring Air Wisconsin back to the United family. This is interesting, considering the way United has treated Air Wisconsin in previous months. The only thing I could think of is that an existing express carrier (Probably Mesa), is not meeting performance targets in their contract, which is forcing United to possibly terminate the contract. As I said, this is just a rumor, but a very interesting one.
 
AirCop
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
The only thing I could think of is that an existing express carrier (Probably Mesa), is not meeting performance targets in their contract,

Mesa not meeting performance targets. So what else is new. Some people don't learn, United and Mesa. As for Air Whisky I won't believe it until United announces it.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:41 am

Your thread title is very misleading. Just because UA allegedly solicited an RFP from ZW does not mean they "Want" them back. Futhermore, I would wager to say that if they did solicit an RFP, ZW probably was not the only carrier who received said solicitation...

Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
There is a rumor floating around that United has come back to Air Wisconsin and asked for a proposal for flying that would bring Air Wisconsin back to the United family. This is interesting, considering the way United has treated Air Wisconsin in previous months.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:58 am

I bet they miss the 146's. where are they btw?
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
stirling
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:01 am

Sounds like United is learning the meaning of the phrase; "You get what you pay for...".
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FutureFO
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:28 am

Get rid of Hojets and MESA.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
piercey
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:40 am

About damn time. Mesa is a complete disaster. Bring back Air Wisconsin.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
scorpy
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:42 am

Sounds like a bad soap opera...

Are UA and Air Wisconsin going to appear on Jerry Springer as well?
 
777ER
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 2):
Your thread title is very misleading

I can't see how its mesleading since it says 'rumor' first
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ordramper98
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:57 am

I hope the rumor is true. It would be nice to see ZW back. If Mesa is on the outs, that would be cool too.
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:04 pm

Question. Where/what did ZW do with the BAE-146's? Anyone have pix of where they are and wht the plan was to do with them?
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
CroCop
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:14 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Sounds like United is learning the meaning of the phrase; "You get what you pay for...".

They didnt get anything for what they paid. Mesa has always sucked. I think pressure in the industry to fly RJ's and save some coin was obvious, and they needed someone with a good size fleet. ZW would have made a great fit. I wish UA would never have gotten into bed with OO, I dont think they're all that great. I really liked ZW, they were a very good regional, and great relationships were built when they were flying for UAL.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 2):
Your thread title is very misleading

I can't see how its mesleading since it says 'rumor' first

Just for the record, I dont think it was misleading.
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
 
stirling
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
They didnt get anything for what they paid

That is my point.

They dumped Air Whisky because Mesa came in with a *Better* offer.

"Cheaper" is not "Better", its just of lower quality. Some lessons are learned the hard way.
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CroCop
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
They didnt get anything for what they paid

That is my point.

They dumped Air Whisky because Mesa came in with a *Better* offer.

"Cheaper" is not "Better", its just of lower quality. Some lessons are learned the hard way.

I re-read my first post, sorry my fault for not reading it right. I agree 100%
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
 
iad51fl
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:15 pm

I started reading this post.....and thought to myself....

This is the future of CO and CHQ..... they want cheap and they will get what they pay for....

When I worked at KAVL CHQ did KMCO flights for Delta... at least 1 flight a week was majorly delayed or canceled because of mechanicals.

Anyway....dont mean to hijack the topic.... back on track....

When will Majors realize that you have to look at more than just price when you have flying out for bid.

Chris
Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.980548, -95.271201
 
hiflyer
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:28 pm

I would wonder if the stories about Skywest and the 70 seaters performance issues out of ski country may be related....though I think all the 146's were put down. Perhaps the E170's could handle that better than the CR7 can....isn't awacs getting those down the line via USAir?
 
AADC10
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:32 pm

UA was forced by creditors under Ch. 11 to go with the low bidder, Mesa. The knew that it was going to be a problem, but they had no chioce. Now that they have exited bankruptcy, they can dump them for not meeting their goals.
 
UAXDXer
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:51 pm

Quoting Scorpy (Reply 7):
Are UA and Air Wisconsin going to appear on Jerry Springer as well?

They may as well considering their Jerry Springeresq relationship that they have had in the past. That being said, if this rumour is true, I wonder if ZW will go out and pick up some used Avro's to resume the ASE flying.

Speaking of Avero's didn't United ask ZW to keep 2 or 3 146's and continue doing the ASE flights after it was desided that OO and Mesa was going to replace ZW? To which ZW told UAL not only No but Hell No!
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We're Nuts
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:56 pm

Having come from that cluster, I can say with a straight face the problem with United's express division is United. Any airline could do a fine job if UA weren't in there screwing things up. Would it be nice to have 20 CRJ's leave the same terminal in the same 30-minute time slot? Sure. Realistic? Only to United.
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IPFreely
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:25 pm

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 18):
Having come from that cluster, I can say with a straight face the problem with United's express division is United. Any airline could do a fine job if SA)">UA weren't in there screwing things up. Would it be nice to have 20 CRJ's leave the same terminal in the same 30-minute time slot?

It's more than 20 at ORD. I've been in the F concourses where 3 planes were scheduled to leave within 5 minutes of each other....9:55pm, 10:00pm, and 10:05pm....from the SAME gate! Granted Air Wisconsin was better than Mesa, but there's only so much they can do given the nonsensical scheduling of United Express operations at ORD.

In any event, I assume Air Wisconsin still has contract obligations with USAirways, and wouldn't have planes or crews to commit to United. How is Air Wisconsin doing with the USAirways Express flying?
 
saab2000
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:11 pm

The old BAe-146s have been sold off and some have been scrapped. They are not coming back. The last Coke can you drank was probably a 146.

I have also heard the UAL/ZW rumor. But I'll believe it when I see it.

If ZW is smart they will do whatever it takes to get that flying, if it is indeed available. Whatever it takes, be that buying CR7s or whatever they want.
smrtrthnu
 
azncsa4qf744er
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
I wish UA would never have gotten into bed with OO, I dont think they're all that great. I really liked ZW, they were a very good regional, and great relationships were built when they were flying for UAL.

What other airlines held “Mainland Number One On-Time” for three consecutive years? 2003, 2004, and 2005 in which they carried over 10millions passengers annually. You know of any other major or regional (other than HA) that have this title?
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 15):
I would wonder if the stories about Skywest and the 70 seaters performance issues out of ski country may be related....though I think all the 146's were put down. Perhaps the E170's could handle that better than the CR7 can....isn't awacs getting those down the line via USAir?

The performance of the CRJ-700's out of ASE are no surprise to UA. This was what was planned from the start. I agree that the EMB170 would have probably has been the better choice. I would say that UA wanted an express carrier that serviced all the hubs it wanted to fly to ASE from (LAX/DEN/ORD/SFO). The only express carrier out of LAX and SFO is OO. It makes logical since for UA to choose OO for the ASE ops. Would UA choose to have some newer Avro's fly the routes for them? Probably, but what express carrier would take on such a small operation and still be competitive with price? Don't be fooled. I am sure UA is making plenty of money to ASE with OO. You don't expand operations to an unprofitable city.

Anyhow back to the subject. I do not think that UA would go back to ZW for 50 seat RJ's. I am sure that AX, OO or some RP carrier would be more then happy to fill the gap for them with some 50 seater's. God knows there are plenty around that need good homes. The only way that they would bring ZW back is if they bought some 70+ seater's for some ExPlus ops. From what I hear ZW was unwilling (and more like unable with out a bankruptcy process) to dump the leases on the 50 seat aircraft for 70 seater's. If you look at what ZW was replaced with...it was mostly ExPlus.

-m

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Goldenshield
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 22):
I agree that the EMB170 would have probably has been the better choice.

The E170's wingspan is about 10 feet longer than allowed by the FAA. Of course, regardless of this issue, the E170 would have the same exact issues that the CRJ-700 would. The ARJ series was a perfect match for ASE due to it's STOL capabilities, and becuase of those STOL capabilities, it could pretty much land in any weather. However, becuase the CRJ-700 is not STOL certified aircraft, it are hit hard when the weather moves in, and the E170 would be no different.
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saab2000
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:07 am

First, AWAC has very deep pockets. If they wanted to, they could probably do what they need without some sort of bankruptcy.

But for reasons unknown, they did not want to get into the 70-seat jet business yet. I personally think they missed the boat in a huge way, but time may yet decide.

Personally, I would like to see AWAC get a fleet of Avros and operate their old routes as Air Wisconsin. They could sell some of the lift to a bidder like United, but since AWAC owns some of the departure and arrival procedures at ASE they could get the most weight in and out. I would not be surprised if they looked at just this scenario at one point.

Question: how many seats can OO fill on their CR7s to ASE? Just curious. I have heard that they are severely weight restricted, but the reality is often very different than hearsay. What's the truth?
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UnitedTristar
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 23):
The E170's wingspan is about 10 feet longer than allowed by the FAA.

Good call...forgot about that restriction!

-m

 airplane 
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 24):
Question: how many seats can OO fill on their CR7s to ASE? Just curious. I have heard that they are severely weight restricted, but the reality is often very different than hearsay. What's the truth?

Weight restricted to ASE, no. From ASE, yes, but the number depends on the city and weather, and can be a little as 0 people lost.
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BrianDromey
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 23):
The ARJ series was a perfect match for ASE due to it's STOL capabilities, and becuase of those STOL capabilities, it could pretty much land in any weather. However, becuase the CRJ-700 is not STOL certified aircraft, it are hit hard when the weather moves in, and the E170 would be no different.

Gooldenshield, the E170 would be VERY different situation to the CRJ-700. Although perhaps not relevant here, the E170 is certified for steep approaches. It is also capable of decent payloads from LCY, the queen of which is currently non other than the BAe 146/AVRO RJ.

Im not sure of teh specifics of the E170/190 operation into ASE, but operationally it should be possible, but maybe not from a regulatory standpoint
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Goldenshield
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 27):
Gooldenshield, the E170 would be VERY different situation to the CRJ-700. Although perhaps not relevant here, the E170 is certified for steep approaches. It is also capable of decent payloads from LCY, the queen of which is currently non other than the BAe 146/AVRO RJ.

Steeps approaches near sea level are not aborted landings and contaminated runways at high altitude.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
CroCop
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
Quoting CroCop (Reply 11):
They didnt get anything for what they paid

That is my point.

They dumped Air Whisky because Mesa came in with a *Better* offer.

"Cheaper" is not "Better", its just of lower quality. Some lessons are learned the hard way.

No, figure wise I cant give you those numbers. I dont swear by the numbers, I go straight off the experience not the numbers. I bet OO is far better than ANY OTHER in the nation, but when it comes to the people I dont care for them as much, ZW was my choice.

So in short, toss all your numbers and feel you need to defend OO, but as a business traveler I dont care for them. If I have to fly them, I go out of MY way to drive to a mainline airport and take United, thanks.
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:35 am

I think it'd be pretty cool if it were to happen, but like stated above, I'll believe it when it happens. ZW still has a hanger here in MKE and I'm pretty sure they still have the United Express logo/title on it even though only US Airways express only uses it now.
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We're Nuts
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting CroCop (Reply 29):
but when it comes to the people I dont care for them as much, ZW was my choice.

Ha! Obviously you've never met the ZW team at IAD. They do all the ground work there, you know. Not a word of English between the lot of them. Makes for great CS.
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CroCop
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RE: Rumor: United Wants Air Wisconsin Back

Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 31):
Quoting CroCop (Reply 29):
but when it comes to the people I dont care for them as much, ZW was my choice.

Ha! Obviously you've never met the ZW team at IAD. They do all the ground work there, you know. Not a word of English between the lot of them. Makes for great CS.

I have not had the pleasure to talk with them in IAD. I try to travel through ORD,DEN,LAX,SFO and IAD being my last choice. I know for a short time ORD was pretty bad ghetto wise.
Den was nice, years ago, the BAE-146's were cool, but I have been on a few BA 146'S out of INV to LGW, they were pretty cool.
Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic

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