david31998
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NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:49 am

It seems like a NW-Delta merger will threaten the Memphis hub. Memphis has served NW well, but in the event of a merger, it is too near Atlanta to continue to operate as it does now. If NW pulls the Memphis hub, it will present a good opportunity for Southwest to expand its market in that region. Do others see it playing out that way?
 
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falstaff
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:04 am

I could see that happening. MEM is the smallest of the hubs and ATL is reasonably close by. It could turn into a focus city like IND. I could see WN or another LCC moving in there. I am no expert, but I can see that or something similar happening.
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drerx7
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:05 am

I'm sure you'd see WN move into MEM in a big way--or even JetBlue.
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luv2fly
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:06 am

Not only that with CVG being somewhat close to DTW! It would be safe to assume that CVG would be affected as well.
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drerx7
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
Not only that with CVG being somewhat close to DTW! It would be safe to assume that CVG would be affected as well.

But CVG makes money for DL so it would probably be retained.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
srbmod
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:16 am

In the few years prior to the Northwest/Republic merger, Republic had pretty much pulled down its' hub @ ATL (Holdover from the Southern days) and concentrated on their MEM hub (Also an former Southern hub) because of Delta's and Eastern's near stranglehold @ ATL (Southern/Republic was always the little runt to those two @ ATL).

If a DL/NW tie-up were to happen, MEM would probably see its' role as a hub reduced to flights to the remaining hubs post-merger and perhaps a handful of other cities.

It would present an opportunity for a number of airlines. Southwest (of course) immediately comes to mind. Perhaps JetBlue, Frontier, or even Spirit would look into some sort of operations out of MEM. Frontier has been long rumored to be looking for somewhere east of the Mississippi in which to build some sort of hub (although the marketing tie-up with AirTran may have put those plans on the backburner). I also wouldn't be surprised if a few startups tried to base themselves out of MEM.
 
ASEFlyer
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:36 am

This, in my opinion brings to mind very paralell antitrust issues when compared with a DL/US merger. So many of the routes covered out of MEM are duplicated in ATL, thus reducing two carriers serving a city to one in a number of destinations particularly those in the SE(I know Tupelo, MS is served only by DL/NW, resulting in no fare competition, I am sure there are others). While I know the magnitude of ATL CLT overlap is not as much as ATL MEM, it would still be quite a blow.

What about the areas for which NW is the only carrier such as Greenville, MS? Would DL add flights to ATL or would these cities fall off of the map?
 
Evan767
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 4):
But CVG makes money for DL so it would probably be retained.

It is extremely costly to fly out of CVG though.

I see:
CVG and MEM go away.
ATL stays as the bread basket hub.
JFK stays as second European hub to ATL.
DTW stays as a good transcon hub (Such as what CVG would have been to DL).
MSP stays as a good Asia hub.
SLC stays as a good western hub.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
ASEFlyer
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:54 am

If CVG and MEM go away where are they going to serve small cities in Indiana, Kentucky, Arkansas, Missouri, etc? Will they just change these flights to DTW? Certainly a feasible option, kind of illustrates how much unneccessary duplicity there is in this industry...

So, what will the long-term result of reducing competition in the markets served by both DL/NW? Will the fares go up?
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:59 am

It's probably a given that MEM will go in the event of a DL/NW tie up. I've always enjoyed connecting thru there on NW, the airport seems to have a certain southern charm to it, and the recent renovations with the rotunda area look nice, not to mention that sweet smell of BBQ the permeates the terminal, so it would be sad to see the hub go. I posted this question in the other thread but did not receive a response so I'll ask again, would they perhaps consider maybe keeping MEM as a reliever hub to ATL in the south (similar to AA at STL relieving ORD)? The hub itself today is not very big anyways (with about 200 daily flights, some focus cities for airlines have that many flights). I have heard that since FedEx keeps their major hub there it keeps the cost of operating a hub for NW relatively minimal. Just a thought...
 
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STT757
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:02 am

I think Memphis would do well post NWA, it will not have the Amsterdam or Mexico flights but most fares for most flyers would probably benefit from the introduction of more competition vis a vis WN, FL etc..

WN and FL could do alot with MEM.
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ASEFlyer
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 9):
would they perhaps consider maybe keeping MEM as a reliever hub to ATL in the south (similar to AA at STL relieving ORD)?

I have to say I like this idea. I think the more likely result would be keeping the CVG hub to act in such a capacity as it is "sort of" halfway between DTW and ATL, has a much bigger employee base, nicer facility etc. NWA leaving memphis would be a huge blow to their economy, a lot of people would be unemployed, Pinnancle would probably cease to exist, the transportation and cargo industry are mainstays in the area, other than that there isn't much more. At least it would still have those giant fedex planes gracing the delta (not the airline) sky.

Hopefully the headquarters of the new mega airline would remain in ATL, I would hate to see my little airline from MLU move out of the South.
 
jmc1975
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:50 am

NW and DL are two airlines that certainly need lessons from the likes of US, B6, FL and WN in terms of right-pricing their product to optimize and maximize O&D and revenue generation. Unless US takes over either NW or DL, a combined NW/DL would go down together like the Titanic. NW simply does not serve well (in fact they rape) the local consumers of MSP, DTW and MEM with sky high fares, but they appeal greatly to the Jerry Springer crowd connecting at those hubs at rock-bottom fares. The same could be said for DL at CVG, and to a lesser extent, ATL and SLC. With that said, the demise of a combined NW/DL will ensure stability for the remaining carriers for decades to come.
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luv2fly
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
It is extremely costly to fly out of CVG though.

I see:
CVG and MEM go away.
ATL stays as the bread basket hub.
JFK stays as second European hub to ATL.
DTW stays as a good transcon hub (Such as what CVG would have been to DL).
MSP stays as a good Asia hub.
SLC stays as a good western hub.

I have to agree with the above poster, though I see DTW remaining largely in tact and growing from the demise of CVG. ATL, JFK, DTW, MSP would all be the major European gateways for the combined carriers.
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EXMEMWIDGET
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:25 am

MEM was a mini hub for Delta in the mid 80's. We had service to about 18 cities then, plus the 10 or so cities that ASA served. I am not sure if MEM was set up to be some sort of overflow hub for ATL or not. Republic began their big build up in MEM around the same time which eventually caused DL to start reducing service.
If the DL/NW does happen, MEM would definately be the biggest loser with perhaps only service to the major hubs left. They might keep some service to places like LGA or LAX.
 
Humberside
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
MSP stays as a good Asia hub.

Isn't NW 's only Asia route from MSP, NRT? I dont think MSP would be the Asia hub, probably NRT  Wink

So would that leave MSP redundant if NW/DL merged?
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JohnJ
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:26 am

The focus of this thread has been acknowledged by the Memphis/Shelby County Airport Authority and was the subject of a recent article in the Memphsi Commercial Appeal:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/...cle/0,1426,MCA_440_5271254,00.html
 
rwsea
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
MSP stays as a good Asia hub.



Quoting Humberside (Reply 15):
So would that leave MSP redundant if NW/DL merged?

MSP is less useful for Transpacific and Transatlantic services than it is for serving the Mountain States. MSP is the de facto hub for those in places like North and South Dakota, and also has a strong presence in Montana, Wyoming, the Midwest, etc.
 
airportplan
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting David31998 (Thread starter):
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
MSP stays as a good Asia hub.

Isn't NW 's only Asia route from MSP, NRT? I dont think MSP would be the Asia hub, probably NRT

So would that leave MSP redundant if NW/DL merged?

NWA has more flights to Asian from DTW than from MSP. Much of this is auto industry traffic. This would not change in a DL/NW merger.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:18 am

What name would they keep? It would be hard to tell in my mind. The Delta WorldGateway?
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SLCUT2777
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:39 am

In a DL/NW merger, there is little doubt that MEM along with CVG will be the losers in such a scenario. I think there would be enough frequent fliers in MEM that the combined airline would keep flights to a few larger places than just the hubs. For example I could see MEM maintaining daily service to places like LGA, DCA and Florida. I don't think it will be quite the cut and run we saw when DL up and left DFW in January 2005 when they all of a sudden only had 21 flights; 7 each to ATL, CVG and SLC. MEM could look more like BOS, FLL, MCO, JAX or TPA as a significant focus operation with some additional point to point flying. But I'm sure it will be sad to not see an overseas flight to AMS or down to Mexico as they currently have.
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panam330
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 4):
But CVG makes money for DL so it would probably be retained.

CVG is a great facility, however DTW is vastly superior in both traffic and amenities. CVG would more than likely bear significant cutbacks, and would most likely retain flights only to hubs and major O&D destinations (eg. business-oriented routes like BOS, LGA, DCA), and perhaps Florida and LAX. It's unfortunate, and some don't want to even think about it, but business is business, and it's all about the bottom line.

Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 14):
MEM would definately be the biggest loser with perhaps only service to the major hubs left. They might keep some service to places like LGA or LAX.

Agreed. Quite similar to what AA has reduced their former RDU and BNA hubs to. It mirrors my thoughts from above on what I believe CVG (and MEM) would be reduced to.
 
Evan767
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 15):
Isn't NW 's only Asia route from MSP, NRT? I dont think MSP would be the Asia hub, probably NRT

Ahh true that. I totally forgot about NRT. In that case MSP can be scratched as an Asia hub.

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 18):
NWA has more flights to Asian from DTW than from MSP. Much of this is auto industry traffic. This would not change in a DL/NW merger.

My original idea was to make MSP the Asia hub because it was geographically better than DTW. However, I totally forgot that Northwest has the Asia gateway through NRT.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
desertjets
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:35 am

In regards to the elimination of CVG and MEM under a hypothetical DL/NW merger. Part of the problem that I see with this recent round of merger proposals is that all this money gets spend, labor groups get pissed, cities get upset, to merge w/ another carrier just to shed or reallocate a significant portion of your capacity. Sure it is somewhat easy given the large % of the flights operated ex. CVG and MEM that are Delta Connection or Northwest Airlink. Just terminate the contracts and through out another RFP for whatever type of flying you need.

So at the end of the day you may have reduced capacity, improved your yields by a few cents.... but you still have dissimilar fleets to rationalize over the long term, you still have labor groups to integrate (and airlines that in past mergers that did a poor job integrating labor groups still have issues to this day), and who knows how many other issues to deal with over the long haul. In my humble opinion the US airline industry (legacy carriers in this case) isn't going to consolidate itself to longterm profitability. Not when large parts of the business model aren't working.
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Indy
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:50 am

If the merger happens you'll see the end of the MEM and CVG hub. They will become nothing more than focus cities. The NW focus city at IND will go away as well.
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steeler83
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 24):
If the merger happens you'll see the end of the MEM and CVG hub. They will become nothing more than focus cities. The NW focus city at IND will go away as well.

I am sure that FL would be licking their chops over this  Smile
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azjubilee
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:50 am

Everyone is talking about the death of MEM and CVG if they were to merge. Then in the next breath they talk about AirTran, Southwest and JetBlue stepping in to fill the gaps. If NWA/DL indeed merge and no longer find MEM and CVG profitable hubs or focus cities, what makes you think the LCCs will circle like vultures and swoop in to fill their void? Remember these airlines are in Ch11! They've slashed their costs incredibly and will be lean and mean when they emerge.

I predict MEM and CVG will be scaled back as MAJOR connecting points. I like other posters can see them using both cities as reliever airports for ATL, but not DTW. DTW doesn't need relief, in fact it's poised very well for growth. I think the role of MEM and CVG will be 70% o&d and 30% connecting. That would mean fewer flights to many destinations, but they would retain flights to the major US cities and perhaps connecting flights to small communities. The operating costs in MEM are very low and while o&d is low costs are kept low thanks to FedEx, therefore MEM can take more scaling back, but remain profitable. If there is money to be made in these cities, a presence will remain.


AZJ
 
HVNandrew
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 4):

But CVG makes money for DL so it would probably be retained.

Correct, and alot of people forget that. DL's fares there are among the highest seen in the industry.

CVG won't be a DL/NW hub if the merger goes through, but it will stay a small focus city for the airline, with flights to the hubs, plus the top 20 O/D destinations from the airport.
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
It is extremely costly to fly out of CVG though.

I see:
CVG and MEM go away.

What about the articles about how expensive it is to fly out of CVG (for passengers) and lack of LCCs there?

IMO, CVG would get a bit more traffic, the traffic that MEM loses.

M
 
deltal1011man
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 19):
What name would they keep? It would be hard to tell in my mind. The Delta WorldGateway?

know one really knows what name they will keep and know really knows if Delta will merge with Northwest but if i had to gess i would say it would be Delta and the HQ would stay in ATL but who really know? The Northwest name is the old name in the airlines but Delta is #2 so only time will tell.
New airliners.net web site sucks....
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kc135topboom
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:24 am

So would that make DFW a focus city? Reducing MEM and CVG would leave a big hole in the middle of the country for DL/NW. Both currently have small operations at DFW serving STL, CVG, DTW, MEM, ATL, and LGA.
 
Lexy
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:42 am

I just don't see MEM getting a massive presence from WN due to their pressence up the road @ BNA. BNA is still waiting for more destinations from WN and building up a market that BNA draws from (and lets face it, it does draw some from there just due to price alone) would cannabalize their operations there. They could get 30-40-50 flights a day out of MEM, but really nothing else IMO. The difference between the two airports (MEM and BNA) is that BNA has good O&D while MEM isn't as good. That would play a factor in any future plans for MEM.

I could see Airtran building up there before anyone else would.

Another thing to consider is what would happen to the jobs and people associated with all the regional airline work there for NW.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
Mudboy
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting ASEFlyer (Reply 6):
What about the areas for which NW is the only carrier such as Greenville, MS? Would DL add flights to ATL or would these cities fall off of the map?



My friends at the Greenville airport stated that there has been talk of another airline moving in. In my opinion, it would be Delta to ATL. Obviously, for people flying west, this would seem out of the way connecting in ATL, but I rarely fly NWA out of GLH. I usually fly Delta out of MLU, JAN, or MEM. It would be nice flying Delta out of my hometown, on a CRJ rather than a SF3 to MEM. I remember when I was a kid in the late 70s or early 80s, Republic or Southern flew either DC9s or 727s from Greenville to MEM. I guess, those were the days.
 
5mileBob
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Just my 2cents, but I came up with a good name for the proposed DL/NW merger: Compass
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JetBlueLuv
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 31):
just don't see MEM getting a massive presence from WN due to their pressence up the road @ BNA. BNA is still waiting for more destinations from WN and building up a market that BNA draws from (and lets face it, it does draw some from there just due to price alone) would cannabalize their operations there. They could get 30-40-50 flights a day out of MEM, but really nothing else IMO. The difference between the two airports (MEM and BNA) is that BNA has good O&D while MEM isn't as good. That would play a factor in any future plans for MEM.

I could see Airtran building up there before anyone else would.

Another thing to consider is what would happen to the jobs and people associated with all the regional airline work there for NW.

I'm going to have to disagree with you...FX makes and has made MEM a bit more attractive to WN than you may thing. You have to look at the early 90's to see this, though. Shortly after NW merged with Republic, WN attempted to inaugurate talks with members of the MSCAA to begin service and start growth out of MEM. However, NW pulled the punch by claiming that if WN were to begin service at MEM, they would move the hub. Because of this, the city intervened and halted this from happening because they viewed the hub as a bit more lucrative than having the smaller WN begin. FX keeps landing fees, etc. at MEM low, and that is why MEM is still attractive. Yes, WN isn't at MEM yet; however, this is simply because of NW...not because they aren't interested in MEM or because of the Wright Ammendment.

Furthermore, the lower prices of WN provides for the good O&D at BNA. Look at the figures from 1992 at BNA when they were in about the same situation with AA as MEM is with NW right about now...O&D traffic was at around 4 million...MEM has 39% O&D right now...making it where its O&D traffic is...at around 4 million. Thus, when you compare apples to apples...MEM and BNA are the same. If the primary occupant at MEM was a LCC, I (and many airline analysts) feel that the O&D at MEM would be higher. Before WN started beefing up service at BNA, it was in the exact same boat that MEM is in right now...so I wouldn't say the current MEM O&D is a negative indicator of future plans of an LCC op at MEM.
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:52 pm

I'm gonna be realistic and see that the MEM hub is certainly in a dire situation with a NW/DL merger, but I also have to say that think about the overlap in the South compared to the Midwest.

South:

MEM
ATL

Midwest:

CVG
DTW
MSP
MKE (NW focus city)
IND (NW focus city)

While I know that the JFK hub/focus city is primarily international, it is also in that area. I see the first cuts coming from the midwest before MEM goes down simply because there isn't as much overlap in the South, ATL is extremely crowded to begin with and doesn't really need to absorb traffic from shuttered midwest hubs/focus cities AND MEM, and MEM has EXTREMELY low costs for NW. On top of that, MEM makes money for NW just as CVG does for DL but doesn't have to worry with inclement weather delays in the winter as much as CVG or the other midwestern hubs do.
 
Evan767
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:58 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 28):
What about the articles about how expensive it is to fly out of CVG (for passengers) and lack of LCCs there?

The reason it costs so much for passengers is that it is extremely expensive for airlines to operate out of there compared to other hubs. Hence the reason you dont see any LCC's out of CVG.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
JetBlueLuv
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 36):

The reason it costs so much for passengers is that it is extremely expensive for airlines to operate out of there compared to other hubs. Hence the reason you dont see any LCC's out of CVG.

...which is also why i can imagine CVG going before MEM. Yes, I think both are up a certain creek without a paddle with the situation of DL, NW...however, if push comes to shove, the MSCAA needs to point out the advantage MEM has over CVG to act as a relief hub due to low landing fees and costs and the major profitability coming from MEM-AMS and other international routes due to easy connections and customs that passengers internationally and domestically prefer over the crowded hubs of DTW and MSP...and ATL should the merger take place.
 
Lexy
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:21 pm

Yeah jetblueLuv, I can see the passengers in MEM saying it now...." NW is gone so lets fly everywhere now!!!" That makes no sense what so ever. Did it ever occur to you that Nashville, the city, saw considerable growth during that time that it is still seeing currently?? Obviously not or you would have taken that into consideration. The difference between BNA and MEM is simple. One airport is in a city that is seeing, in many ways, explosive growth while the other is in a city that is seeing slow steady growth (for the most part). And the landing fees @ BNA are rather low as well. Ever wonder how they were able to attract a large presence from WN and other airlines (post AA hub) outside of the obvious, traffic?

I have read two of your post, both of them in threads that have something to do with Tennessee airports, both of which have mention of BNA. Not a one of them has a positive spin towards the airport in Nashville. Not that I care, but if you have nothing even remotely decent to say about the airport here...then don't say anything at all about it. What is your beef anyway??
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
aaway
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting 5mileBob (Reply 33):
Just my 2cents, but I came up with a good name for the proposed DL/NW merger: Compass

I think I have a better one: NorDel Network  Big grin
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
notdownnlocked
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:22 pm

Sorry all but from what I have heard the MEM hub will stay no matter what because of the FedEx hub. There is a big interchange of aircraft parts and misconnected mail that can be sent on a combined DL/NW. Perhaps the international flights will be cut. From what I have heard the DL/NW merger is a go and NW since they have already submitted their restructing plan will be the buying entity. The combined name has yet to be decided upon.
 
Lexy
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:25 pm

What is your source for the information about the merger?
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
deltal1011man
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RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 40):
Sorry all but from what I have heard the MEM hub will stay no matter what because of the FedEx hub. There is a big interchange of aircraft parts and misconnected mail that can be sent on a combined DL/NW. Perhaps the international flights will be cut. From what I have heard the DL/NW merger is a go and NW since they have already submitted their restructing plan will be the buying entity. The combined name has yet to be decided upon.

if this is true then i hope they take the Delta name and keep the HQ in ATL
with the loss of Ford, GM and Bellsouth we need that HQ to stay here!!!!!!
New airliners.net web site sucks....
Also the mods want to kill free speech and prevent people from saying things like the above. Better say nothing about awesomeness for this place or else!
 
JetBlueLuv
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:05 pm

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 38):
Yeah jetblueLuv, I can see the passengers in MEM saying it now...." NW is gone so lets fly everywhere now!!!" That makes no sense what so ever. Did it ever occur to you that Nashville, the city, saw considerable growth during that time that it is still seeing currently?? Obviously not or you would have taken that into consideration. The difference between BNA and MEM is simple. One airport is in a city that is seeing, in many ways, explosive growth while the other is in a city that is seeing slow steady growth (for the most part). And the landing fees @ BNA are rather low as well. Ever wonder how they were able to attract a large presence from WN and other airlines (post AA hub) outside of the obvious, traffic?

I have read two of your post, both of them in threads that have something to do with Tennessee airports, both of which have mention of BNA. Not a one of them has a positive spin towards the airport in Nashville. Not that I care, but if you have nothing even remotely decent to say about the airport here...then don't say anything at all about it. What is your beef anyway??

Why yes, Lexy, the thought crossed my mind...however, I wouldn't go so far as to say explosive growth as I would say just as steady as MEM but with an explosive bit of urban sprawl added to the mixture. And in case you haven't read my full post, I don't think I mentioned that everyone in MEM is going to drop what they're doing to go fly to wherever just as those in Nashville did once AA dehubbed. In fact, the O&D at BNA has been slowly, steadily growing ever since the hub was lost. This is all I'm saying that will happen at MEM if it were to close. It will simply grow in O&D just as BNA. After all, BNA wasn't at its current O&D when it was a hub...the lower prices of WN attracted them to fly more. Furthermore, the attraction of WN to BNA was a bit more before AA left. What attracted them to beef up service was more the void of AA just as is predicted to happen should NW leave MEM. Maybe not WN, but there will be someone to fill Northwest's shoes...just not on the same level.

I have nothing wrong with Nashville's airport. I think it's great and an asset to the state of TN along with MEM just as any major airport is to a state. However, I do have a problem when someone starts claiming that BNA has such a large O&D in comparison to MEM when that isn't exactly a fair statement considering the circumstances and also when that person slams MEM in numerous forums elsewhere.
 
JetBlueLuv
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:05 pm

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 40):
Sorry all but from what I have heard the MEM hub will stay no matter what because of the FedEx hub. There is a big interchange of aircraft parts and misconnected mail that can be sent on a combined DL/NW. Perhaps the international flights will be cut. From what I have heard the DL/NW merger is a go and NW since they have already submitted their restructing plan will be the buying entity. The combined name has yet to be decided upon.

Nice. I'd think that if BDL has an AMS flight, MEM should be able to keep its international routes simply because they have excelly loads and are often overbooked.
 
Lexy
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting JetBlueLuv (Reply 43):



Quoting JetBlueLuv (Reply 43):
and also when that person slams MEM in numerous forums elsewhere.

I only echo the sentiments of what I hear from many, many people almost everyday. Say what you want, but that is the truth as I see it. LOL!!! I don't regret anything that has been said.

But still, I think you are selling the BNA market short in your post. But since you have been keeping up with me on other boards, I really don't care. The numbers speak for themselves when comparing the two airports. All it takes is a look at the growths of both the metros and the appropriate airports and that's all. Eitherway, what happens elsewhere stays elsewhere.

I should seriously consider getting a fan club on the internet! I seem to have develped a following on here. LOL!!!


Just kidding.

Nevermind all the "explosive" sprawl taking place in N. Mississippi and eastern extents of MEM. That all notwithstanding of course. **nudge nudge-wink wink**

[Edited 2007-01-15 05:59:01]
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
JetBlueLuv
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:05 pm

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 45):

Nevermind all the "explosive" sprawl taking place in N. Mississippi and eastern extents of MEM. That all notwithstanding of course. **nudge nudge-wink wink**

OK...we're talking one county to the east of Shelby...and it was already in the metro. Plus, a county to the south and the beginnings of a second one...three counties as opposed to a full circle of sprawl stretching several counties away from the core. Also, might I ask if your "many, many people" were the ones who informed you to claim on the "what happens there, stays there boards" that MEM had no chance at a CDG flight and the ones who mentioned BNA of getting a tokyo flight before the MEM hub? Personally, I don't think I'm the only one discounting a Tennessee airport.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 715
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 21):
CVG is a great facility, however DTW is vastly superior in both traffic and amenities.

I don't have any info about this but everything I have heard is that CVG is a very profitable hub and even if the facilities are better if the cost isn't you said it yourself it is all about the bottom line.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
panam330
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 47):
I don't have any info about this but everything I have heard is that CVG is a very profitable hub and even if the facilities are better if the cost isn't you said it yourself it is all about the bottom line.

Not to be snippy and defensive, but let me clarify what I wrote. I had said in that post that DTW is superior to the DL hub in the same region, CVG, in both passenger O&D, as well as facilities. If the cost of operating from DTW is indeed higher (which is most probably the case), I'm fairly certain the much larger size of the Detroit metropolitan area over Cincinnati (as well as the yields) will more than make up for the higher costs. However, if they think they can strengthen CVG to the size of DTW (or even larger, since the NW/DL combination will have to combine operations) and keep it profitable, perhaps they will do so to save money. This is all hypothetical, of course.
 
membase
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:31 pm

RE: NW+Delta: End Of The Memphis Hub

Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting Jetblueluv (Reply 34):
If the primary occupant at MEM was a LCC, I (and many airline analysts) feel that the O&D at MEM would be higher. Before WN started beefing up service at BNA, it was in the exact same boat that MEM is in right now...so I wouldn't say the current MEM O&D is a negative indicator of future plans of an LCC op at MEM.

I agree...what's not frequently discussed is the large number of passengers driving to LIT and even BNA from Memphis to catch WN flights. This signficantly retards MEM O&D and simultaneously increases counts at the other two. There is no reason MEM should have only 54% of the O&D that Nashville does. Memphis' metro population is about 86% of Nashville's, it has a very healthy corporate presence (FedEx, Int'l Paper, etc.) and a decent amount of convention/tourist business including the nearby Tunica casinos. I can see BNA's traffic being 20% higher, but not double.

Nashville is certainly a vibrant and growing market, but this alone does not account for its high O&D. Charlotte is also a growth region and has a metro population 200,000 more than Nashville...so why does CLT have O&D numbers that are a half-million less than BNA? For that matter, why do CLE and CVG have O&D lower than BNA? Answer: BNA is a WN stronghold; CLT, CLE and CVG are legacy hubs.

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