GFA330
Topic Author
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15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:54 am

How is safe is a 15,5 hr utilization on a 15 year old A320 acft ?
I am not an expert but recently found out that all A320's within our company are running at this utilization.

What is the average ? What is technically responsible ?

Any info/insight somebody ?
 
positiverate
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting GFA330 (Thread starter):
I am not an expert but recently found out that all A320's within our company are running at this utilization.

I am not an expert, but why not go ask your maintenance staff if it is safe or not...? They would probably know more then we would, since they work with the airplanes on a daily basis and know what type of maintenance is done.
 
A342
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:59 am

If the necessary maintenance, as specified by the manufacturer, is done, then there should be no problem. Heck, your company is to be admired for getting such an utilisation out of an A320 !
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:01 am

Well If it´s good maintenance , it should be no problem .
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GFA330
Topic Author
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 1):
I am not an expert, but why not go ask your maintenance staff if it is safe or not...? They would probably know more then we would, since they work with the airplanes on a daily basis and know what type of maintenance is done.

all outsourced to SR technics. One of the reasons I am asking is that we are incurring quite some delays recently due to tech situations, so naturally the question is coming up with a lot of people if we are not squizing too much out of them.
 
cedarjet
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:10 am

Are the tech delays proof that the airline are pushing just a LITTLE BIT too hard? Perhaps. Is it safe? Yes.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
richierich
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:12 am

I'm sure JetBlue's A320s will be of similar utilization (or more) by the time they hit 15 years old!
None shall pass!!!!
 
B747-437B
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting GFA330 (Thread starter):
How is safe is a 15,5 hr utilization on a 15 year old A320 acft ?

How many cycles?

15.5 on 10 daily cycles is a different kettle of fish from 15.5 hours on 2-3 daily cycles flying primarily longhaul routes.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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autothrust
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:19 am

Just a question : Can someone tell us what the rough dispatch reability of the A320 is. Would be interesting for comparison, with the 737 NG family.
15,5 hours a day sounds pretty impressive wonder how many cycles this plane has.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
AA737-823
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:33 am

It has more to do with length of flights than number of hours.
The more cycles, the more airframe stress.

As far as tech delays, this is a problem inherent to A320 ops... just ask Northwest, who enjoys better dispatch reliability out of their elderly DC-9 fleet than their A319s. At least, that's what Favre used to say. Whatever happened to him, anyway?

Anyhoo, tech delays happen, regardless of aircraft age (United had a terrible time introducing 777 service... LOTS of problems, with brand-new aircraft) or utilization.
 
CRJ900
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:23 pm

I remember reading that some Euro charter airlines would keep their aircraft in the air for 17 hours a day, which meant 3-4 flights a day. As reply 7 says: many cycles are more stressing to the airframe than many flight hours.
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GFA330
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:32 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 7):
How many cycles?

15.5 on 10 daily cycles is a different kettle of fish from 15.5 hours on 2-3 daily cycles flying primarily longhaul routes.

Just checked on the A320 the average is about 8 to 10 cycles.

It seems that our 767's have similar problems, utilization is ok but the average stage lenght is about 2,5 hrs.

Our maintenance guy told me that because of this the undercarriage had to be exchanged at the age of 8 years, while normally they would do this at 12-14 yrs, as the average stage lenght should be about 4,5 to 5 hrs.

This is typical problem for gulf carriers as they often rotate wide bodies intra gulf throughout the day i.e. DXB BAH or DXB DOH etc ....

Interesting to look into this in comparison to other parts of the world. It seems that the Gulf carriers squize a lot out of their acft but not always necessarily the most efficient way.
 
nonfirm
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:23 pm

The longer in the air the less maintenance can be done at night.This will lead to more problems during the flt day.  airplane 
 
cobra27
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:29 pm

It si really impressive how much time modern aircraft stay in the air, most than half of their lifetime. I think I read somewhere that KLM 747 are used 18 hours a day on average, I think that must be record. BTW and one rolls royce engine logged around 60000 hours on wing. Impressive
 
Tobi3334
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:56 am

I am also not an expert but I think 15 hours are not unusual.

A usual german charter-flight leaves at 4:00am and comes back at 11:30pm.
That are 19:30 hours with around 6 to 8 cycles per day.
 
A342
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Tobi3334 (Reply 14):
A usual german charter-flight leaves at 4:00am and comes back at 11:30pm.
That are 19:30 hours with around 6 to 8 cycles per day.

??? I've never seen such a flight timing. Also, you contradict yourself. You say "a typical german charter flight" and then "6-8 cycles per day".
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
ZB330
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:04 am

On earlier aircraft the normal maintenance package dictated that the aircraft went in to the hangar one night every month. However on more modern aircraft (B737NG/A318-A321) the maintenance package is divided in 'small' tasks which can be performed on the line.

As an example the greasing of the gear. Which in some companies is now divided in three packages i.e. left main gear, right main gear and nose gear. So every time the aircraft is on the ground with sufficient time one of these (or all depending on time) will be performed. Within a month everything 9whole aircraft/whole maintenance package) is done and they start all over again. Obviously it requires close monitoring so that every item is performed when its due.

It's a good system when i worked with it. Hangar time was drasticly reduced and therefore more utilization of the aircraft was possible. Of course the aircraft still needs to be in the hangar because there are these jobs that cant be performed on the line.

In summer we operate our A320/A321 on an average of 18/19 hours with 6 sectors. We don't have any dispatch reliability problems in these months. In our company the dispatch reliability of the A320/A321 fleet is 95%+ (don't know the exact figure at this moment)

The KLM 747 utilization is completely different than a shorthaul aircraft. They may use them for 18 hours a day but this is often only two cycles. And there is normally always a spare 747 standing around in AMs. So its easier to take an aircraft off line to perform maintenance when required.
 
vincewy
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:57 am

What are the ideal daily utilizations (hours per day) for long-haul (less than 1 cycle a day, ie: LAX-TPE, HKG-LHR) and regional flights (more than 4 cycles such as TPE-HKG, MAD-LHR)?
 
Tobi3334
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 15):
I've never seen ... "6-8 cycles per day".

Sorry, I was refering to 6-8 flights per day.
e.g.
HAM-ALC-HAM-FCO-NUE-STN-NUE
FRA-ALC-DUS-PMI-DUS-ALC-FRA
FRA-ZRH-FRA-ZRH-FRA-ZRH-FRA-ZRH-FRA (okay, that's non-charter)
 
bimmerkid19
Posts: 284
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 13):

I believe that might have been an RB524 on an Icelandair 757-200ER
Last flights: LH 3738 MUC - ZRH , LH 3749 ZRH - MUC . Upcoming: EK 50 MUC - DXB 3-aug. and EK 322 DXB - ICN 7- Aug.
 
astuteman
Posts: 6341
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RE: 15,5 Hr Utilization On 15yr Old A320

Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 19):
I believe that might have been an RB524 on an Icelandair 757-200ER

Just a technical point - On a 757 that would have been an RB211-535 (and indeed it was... Smile ).
The RB211-524 is the bigger engine as fitted to 747's

Regards

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