LHStarAlliance
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Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:50 am

Hello ,

I remember about 8 years ago i flew Lufthansa 340 to Quito .
Now LH don´t has any flight to this countries.

Well Ecuador for example had a big economic crisis , but now with the high fuel prices the Ecuadorian economy is growing , you can see how much Spanish airlines are flying to there NM (not more) Air Europa , Iberia , and I think Air Asturias wants to fly there too . Also KL flies I think 5 / Week.
So why should LH don´t fly there , in the 90s LH flew a 742 to Quito.

Or at least LH could introduce a code share .

Or a shuttle FRA-CCS-LIM

FRA-BOG-UIO-FRA

FRA-BOG-LIM-FRA

FRA-UIO-LIM-FRA

IMO this could be a remunerative service.

What do you think ?




[Edited 2007-01-18 21:58:32]
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Magyarorszag
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries.

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:55 am

I have no idea on the topic right now, but perhaps should you modify the title to something less affirmative.

Cheers.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1):
I have no idea on the topic right now, but perhaps should you modify the title to something less affirmative.

you´re right , sorry ...
 Wink
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HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:16 am

I think that a return to LIM, BOG, let alone UIO is nowhere near the top of the list of priorities right now for Lufthansa, seeing how the airline is still struggling with a severe lack of widebody equipment. Additional service to India, secondary Chinese cities and one or two North American cities, as well as reinforced frequencies to existing destinations seems to be what is in the cards in terms of short and medium term growth.
 
AeroMexico777
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
and I think Air Asturias wants to fly there too

Sorry, Air Asturias has left us... Hope MX returns UIO! Great Country!

Regards, AeroMexico777
"When the hope of dying becomes the only reason to live..." Die Laughing (Gothic), Safe little world.
 
bsbisland
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:42 pm

Lufthansa flew in the past to cities such as LIM, UIO and BOG but still with limited service, with no more than 3 weekly flights. I think nowadays when frequency matters it´s hard to compete with airlines such as IB, KL and others offering daily nonstop flights from Europe. LIM and BOG seem to be pretty large markets and with lack of Star Alliance carriers.
 
AeroMexico777
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:17 am

HI!

I think Star Alliance carriers left south america kind of forgotten cause VARIG´s presence in the region...But, RG is really in a bad shape nowadays...
Am I incorrect?

Regards, AeroMexico777
"When the hope of dying becomes the only reason to live..." Die Laughing (Gothic), Safe little world.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting AeroMexico777 (Reply 6):
But, RG is really in a bad shape nowadays...
Am I incorrect?

No, not entirely correct. While RG was under federal bankrupcty protection last year, it sold its primary operating assets to VARIGLog, a Brasilian airfreight carrier majority-owned by Brasilian investors and 20%-owned by a US investment fund, MatlinPatterson.

The transaction closed in July 2006; but in the interim, 'new RG' lost most of its leased aircraft and shut-down most of its routes.

It retained services to EZE, BOG, CCS and FRA, as well as its most important domestic routes, with 12 733 and 3 M11 aircraft.

Only two weeks ago, Brasilian federal authorities granted 'new RG' an operating certificate, allowing it to restart operations to other international and domestic destinations. RG is scrambling to find aircraft and renew its service to old destinations. MIA and JFK are, apparently, high priorities.

However, StarAlliance is DROPPING RG as a member, effective January 31, 2007. RG will most likely attempt to re-join Star or some other alliance once its operations are 'stabilised'.

The Brasil market has been BOOMING for some time and JJ [and G3] have been scrambling to meet the outsized growth.

RG's new shareholders are focused on profitability, commercial growth and will, hopefully, offer the Brasilian flying public what it desperately needs; a reliable domestic and international network offering high-quality service at attractive pricing.
 
Dakota
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:40 am

I believe LH has (or had?) cooperation with Santa Barbara Airlines on flights between CCS and UIO. I remember seeing a LH check-in desk 3 or 4 years ago at UIO. Don't know if they code-share...

Would be great if LH opened routes to the Andean countries.

Dakota
 
jfk777
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:53 am

Even with a new Varig, Star is at a disadvantage to ONEWORLD. With LAN & AA ONEWORLD is all over Latin America. Taca, Copa and TAM are the airlines looking for an alliance.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:27 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Copa

CM already code-shares with CO and is becoming an associate member of the SkyTeam alliance, offering CO's OnePass program to its customers.

JJ and TA have yet to join an alliance.

AV/Ocean and AR may join an alliance sometime in the future.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Dakota (Reply 8):
I believe LH has (or had?) cooperation with Santa Barbara Airlines on flights between CCS and UIO. I remember seeing a LH check-in desk 3 or 4 years ago at UIO. Don't know if they code-share...

Would be great if LH opened routes to the Andean countries.

Dakota

They had Codeshare with Aeropostal . But if you see the LH Timetable book theres not Quito . And you also can´t book it over Internet.
So I think they gave up the Codeshare , maybe because of the old 727 Aeropostal had.

As said I think a shuttle would make sense .
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Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Dakota (Reply 8):
I believe LH has (or had?) cooperation with Santa Barbara Airlines on flights between CCS and UIO. I remember seeing a LH check-in desk 3 or 4 years ago at UIO. Don't know if they code-share...

Would be great if LH opened routes to the Andean countries.



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 11):
They had Codeshare with Aeropostal . But if you see the LH Timetable book theres not Quito . And you also can´t book it over Internet.
So I think they gave up the Codeshare , maybe because of the old 727 Aeropostal had.

As said I think a shuttle would make sense .

are you sure they had a code-share with VH? as I know they are only interlining....

in fact, the CCS flight from LH has very impresive loads with conecting passegners to the Andean countrys, specially to Colombia (BOG, CLO, MDE) and Peru (LIM), to Colombia LH is working with AV and to LIM with TA, and when LH comes in delayed fom FRA all the traffic gets AV...

LH has still good fares and loyall customers from these countrys. Hopefully BOG and LIM gets soon there dedicated flights back, other alternative is that CCS will be upgradet to 747-400 or even to the A380. What I heard several times is that the CCS flight has the highest load-factor on all LH flights.... at least we were upgraded this summer to a daily operation, up from a 5 x weekly flight.

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
are you sure they had a code-share with VH?

I flew this flight : UIO-CCS-FRA with LH-AH Codeshare , but this was 2002.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
opefully BOG and LIM gets soon there dedicated flights back, other alternative is that CCS will be upgradet to 747-400 or even to the A380.

I´m sure that CCS will be a future 748i flight , my brother works often on this flights and he told me that mostly this flight is full .

And in the past they´ve used the 744 to CCS .
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Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 13):
I flew this flight : UIO-CCS-FRA with LH-AH Codeshare , but this was 2002.

but was it a code-share? asking as LH has also own personal on the AV check-in at Bogota for example assisting LH passengers but they are not code-sharing the flights....

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 13):
my brother works often on this flights and he told me that mostly this flight is full .

intresting.... btw do you know where are they staying (hotel)?




btw, It is always very nice for me as a german expat in Venezuela to see LH starting or landing at the airport!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 14):
but was it a code-share?

Yes I think so

Quoting Avianca (Reply 14):
intresting.... btw do you know where are they staying (hotel)?

Don´t know exactly , but I think it´s near the coast .

Quoting Avianca (Reply 14):
It is always very nice for me as a german expat in Venezuela to see LH starting or landing at the airport!

It was for me as German diplomat son in Ecuador always
nice to see KL or IB arriving of such a long flight back of my loved Europe , I used to see the KL MD11 arriving at 10 o´clock near to my school , and the IB flight at 5 o´clock as it flew over our house every day , it was always a bit Europe for me . Also at 7 morning driving to school seeing the Atlas Air 747 was wonderful .
the flight UIO-GYE-MAD was always the Highlight of the year . This nostalgia to Europe produced a fascination for Aviation .Now I want to be Pilot in the next years .Hehe it´s strange how such minor things can change all your life .
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Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 15):
Don´t know exactly , but I think it´s near the coast .

I think it is the Hotel Ole in Macuto...

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 15):
It was for me as German diplomat son in Ecuador always
nice to see KL or IB arriving of such a long flight back of my loved Europe , I used to see the KL MD11 arriving at 10 o´clock near to my school , and the IB flight at 5 o´clock as it flew over our house every day , it was always a bit Europe for me . Also at 7 morning driving to school seeing the Atlas Air 747 was wonderful .
the flight UIO-GYE-MAD was always the Highlight of the year . This nostalgia to Europe produced a fascination for Aviation .Now I want to be Pilot in the next years .Hehe it´s strange how such minor things can change all your life .

I have to say it is nice to see the aircrafts from Europe but I would not say that is a really nostalgia.... as SouthAmerica is a really great place to live...

Gruesse aus Venezuela  Smile
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 16):
I have to say it is nice to see the aircrafts from Europe but I would not say that is a really nostalgia.... as SouthAmerica is a really great place to live...

Well I had nostalgia , but I think that all my years in South America have been great , and that I´m fortunate , as most Germans have not been in South America in their life . And this is an enrichment for my self .

Un Saludo a Venezuela !
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SKY1
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:55 am

South America is a LH low priority market, unlike the Asian market.

As well as LH (also BA) is overcomed by both, IB and AF-KL (I saw many germans in the AF flght CDG-EZE last month ...I had a chat with a german couple they told me that they prefer IB and AF over LH by far, specially when they want to fly Argentina)
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 18):
I had a chat with a german couple they told me that they prefer IB and AF over LH by far, specially when they want to fly Argentina

specially that they prefere IB must be the fare that LH offers, specially in the german market they are always very expensive...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
SKY1
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
that LH offers, specially in the german market they are always very expensive...

Not always!

It depends about season, the destination, the advance for making the reservation, how competition with other carriers could be ...etc, etc.

In my own case, I saw in the Air France's flight (AF418 CDG-EZE) many people from France, Italy, Germany, Nordic countries, Poland and others from the eastern european. But not Argentinian or Spaniard people.

AF takes many germans/nordics pax to fly Buenos Aires and other South American airports. In fact AF-KL (IB as well) is the best option in both, fares and network to fly South America from France and Central/North/East Europe.

Like I said before, South America is not the most priority market for LH.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:45 am

The FRA-EZE flight is almost always full . Maybe that´s why the Prices are higher than normal.
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SKY1
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
The FRA-EZE flight is almost always full

Many flights are full nowadays, even in Business Class. People travel a lot, specially here in Europe.

Let's stick to facts: LH has a more humble South American network AND less frequency than IB and AF/KL.
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IAD380
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:45 am

Will AV or LH be first to resume direct flights between BOG and FRA?
 
Southamerica
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 23):
Will AV or LH be first to resume direct flights between BOG and FRA?

AV has publicly and repeatedly shown interest in doing so. LH hasn't.


SA.
 
Summa767
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 23):
Will AV or LH be first to resume direct flights between BOG and FRA?

I think that it will be AV. Possibly even later this year. I doubt that LH is in any hurry to come back to BOG. Same with BA.
 
SKY1
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 25):
I think that it will be AV. Possibly even later this year.

Does AV enough 767's to do it? Could it be profitable?
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IAD380
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 26):
Does AV enough 767's to do it?

Could a 767 fly nonstop from BOG to FRA?
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 27):
Could a 767 fly nonstop from BOG to FRA?

Yes , Well DE flies the 767 to the Caribbean Countries , so I think it would reach also to BOG .

Didn´t AV flew a 767 years ago to FRA?
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IAD380
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 28):
Didn´t AV flew a 767 years ago to FRA?

Yes, but didn't it stop in MAD?
 
Summa767
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 28):
Didn´t AV flew a 767 years ago to FRA?

AV did fly BOG-FRA non-top with a 767 for a few years.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 26):
Does AV enough 767's to do it? Could it be profitable?

AV has 7 767s at the moment. As it stands, I don't imagine that they have enough to spare for further European routes (they have 11 flights to Spain at the moment), but I understand that the intention is to incorporate more 767s. We should hear more about that very soon.

I think that the route has every reason to be profitable. It would connect Germany non only to Colombia, but easily to Ecuador and Peru too. The economic and safety climate has very much improved since AV left the route.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 29):
Yes, but didn't it stop in MAD?

Yes , I think so ... don´t know it 100% , sorry
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Avianca
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 21):
The FRA-EZE flight is almost always full . Maybe that´s why the Prices are higher than normal.

yes but mainly due the GRU combo...

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 29):
Yes, but didn't it stop in MAD?



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 31):
Yes , I think so ... don´t know it 100% , sorry

no, AV operated for years the flight nonstop, made it several times.... they also routed the flight a year o so via SJU...

Can not wait to see AV back in FRA or even better a new service to MUC !! But if a destination will be come online than FRA
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Birdwatching
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:01 am

I lived in Ecuador for 7 years between 87 and 94. Back then Lufthansa was a big player in the South American market.

Many people whine about LH pulling out, yet nobody seems to understand one of the main reasons:

Back in the 80s it was common to fly somewhere with lots of stops in between, but we're in the non-stop age now.

Look at the LH flight back then: It was Frankfurt - Caracas - Bogota - Quito - Lima - La Paz. You had a 5 segment flight if you wanted to go to La Paz! And the plane got emptier on every segment, not really profitable to shuttle a 747 around the Andes for the fun of it.

So LH's South American route map looks smaller today, but I hope you understand why.

Soren  santahat 
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Lufthansa Back To Andean Countries?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 33):
Look at the LH flight back then: It was Frankfurt - Caracas - Bogota - Quito - Lima - La Paz. You had a 5 segment flight if you wanted to go to La Paz! And the plane got emptier on every segment, not really profitable to shuttle a 747 around the Andes for the fun of it.

Yeah that´s the Problem as LH was a Public-Company they flew to all countries which had a good relationship with Germany , but it was not profitable .
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