gilesdavies
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US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 pm

I was wondering what the chances are of seeing any US Airways expansion out of the UK in the coming years... With the 757 becoming more common place in the US fleet, flying accross the Atlantic they add some additional capacity...

Only a few years back (I think uptil 2003/04) they operated a second daily service to PHL from LGW with a 767 and also a daily 767 service PIT from LGW too. I remember seeing all four US aircraft parked up on the Satilite Pier at LGW... At present routes from the UK are:

1x 330 - LGW-PHL
1x 330 - LGW-CLT
1x 330 - MAN-PHL
1x 752 - GLA-PHL (Summer Only Service)

I am aware an LGW-PHX service probably remains off target for a few years until they get longer range aircrafts in place...

But is there scope for further capacity from their east coast hubs to the UK? With AA and CO showing no signs of offering NCL a Transatlantic service, US could come and steel the show. Also going back a few years ago BHX had far more Transatlantic capacity then it does now and wondering if this could work for US... Routes I was thinking that could work:

752 - LGW-PIT
752/762 - LGW-PHL (Additional daily service - on top of the A330 service)
762 - MAN-CLT
752/762 - GLA-PHL (Increased to all year round)
752 - BHX-PHL
752 - NCL-PHL

Any Thoughts?   

With US Airways flying into UK airports lacking being a Star Alliance Hub or limited connections, would this be a reason why US has grown elsewhere in Europe?

Frankfurt & Munich being Lufthansa hubs.
Stockholm being a Scandanavian hub.
Barcelona & Madrid being Spanair hubs.
Zurich a Swiss hub.
Lisbon a TAP hub.

[Edited 2007-01-19 13:38:21]
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:26 pm

The 762 that was used for the 2nd LGW frequency in the summer was switched to a 2nd daily flt to FRA and apparently it is one of the best performing flts. So don't think a 2nd frequency to LGW is coming anytime soon.
 
Daleaholic
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
762 - MAN-CLT

Do you mean replacing the A330 service? Or as an additional service? The MAN-PHL route was done by a 762 when it first started, I personally cannot see them reverting from the modern A330 back to the rather out dated 767-200. Plus, the MAN-PHL seems to be a popular flight.
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 2):
Do you mean replacing the A330 service? Or as an additional service?

No I mean't with MAN-CLT being an additinal service to the A330 MAN-PHL route.

If I remember reading correctly the MAN-PHL service is one the best selling Transatlantic routes they operate. When the route first started US had no intention of increasing the capacity on the route to an A330, but once the took delivery of the Airbus this was one of the first routes to be upgraded. It has remained as popular ever since...
 
FlyingColours
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 2):
Plus, the MAN-PHL seems to be a popular flight.

It sure is  Smile does it continue to SFO by any chance as I remember seeing it on the departure boards once and nearly fainted.

Have they repainted any A330s in the new livery because I could have swore I saw one fly overhead last week. (Although I had just left the dentist and was a little trippy).

I think if NCL (or was it EDI) re-offered the incentives to fly there US would start flights.

MAN has good Star Alliance connections with BD, LH, LX & SK all serving (heck even SQ), but I think the MAN-PHL flight is all O&D traffic is not really benefiting from connections. The MAN-CLT could be a good way to test the water, I mean AA did it with MIA & BOS which proves you don't need to fly from your HQ Airport to make a sucess of Trans Atlantic flights.

I'd love to see US have a larger presence here, or any Airline for that matter.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
jfk777
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:34 pm

I would imagine US having two daily PHL to LGW flights ? This would be from their biggest European gateway, PHL, to LGW. Philadelphia to FRA cold be bigger since its LH hub but PHL to London still ranks up there for impoetant routes to Europe.
 
jamman
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:35 pm

I flew to PHL last year with US and enjoyed the service and the cabin (I have flown AA and CO prevously) the IFE is by far the best out of MAN to the states.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
does it continue to SFO

No, as far as I know the A330 terminates at PHL and passengers move to another US domestic a/c.

[Edited 2007-01-19 14:36:51]
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Daleaholic
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 3):
No I mean't with MAN-CLT being an additinal service to the A330 MAN-PHL route.

Aaah gotcha  Wink I'm not too sure whether this would take off (no pun intended) because the PHL route is less flying time on a better aircraft, I can't see people wanting a longer journey.  Sad

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
does it continue to SFO by any chance as I remember seeing it on the departure boards once and nearly fainted.

I remember it being listed as LAX for a while. The aircraft goes to PHL, from there you have to transfer to another aircraft. Either way... it's kinda false advertising...

As far as I know, none of the A330's US has, have been painted in the new scheme. I for one, hope they don't bother painting them, as they look absolutely fantastic how they are.
 Smile
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
COEI2007
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:48 pm

I'd like to see DUB-PHL go year round. There was talks of EI wanting to pick up the route, but if US stayed year round, it might frighten them off!!!
 
AirCop
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:03 am

I for one would hope that US does not start PHX-LGW service. Should that happen, then PHX loses the LHR service with all the connections to Europe that LHR offers. Until PHX gets additional service to Europe, keep BA and LHR!
 
FlyingColours
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 9):
I for one would hope that US does not start PHX-LGW service. Should that happen, then PHX loses the LHR service with all the connections to Europe that LHR offers. Until PHX gets additional service to Europe, keep BA and LHR!

Sorry, I don't quite understand, why would US starting PHX-LGW cause BA to withdraw their PHX-LHR flights? Is it because of Bermuda 2?

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
dj1986
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:42 am

I think the second daily PHL-LGW flight operated by US was mainly because they had a partnership with BA in the 90's. So they could offer connections all over Europe. It is the same with FRA just that the connections today are provided by LH/Star. If they switch the alliance after the possible DL takeover they will operated a second daily PHL-CDG in the summer.
US Airways I miss you!
 
mah584jr
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:23 am

Adding more flights to the UK is pointless, IMO. The UK isn't a very big country and US Airways already serves enough cities that are all a couple hours driving from any location on the island. Connecting PHL to the smaller US cities just doesn't have enough demand and therefore doesn't make much sense to start.
 
Humberside
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 10):
Sorry, I don't quite understand, why would US starting PHX-LGW cause BA to withdraw their PHX-LHR flights? Is it because of Bermuda 2?

Yes - if any airlines start PHX-LGW, BA have to move their service to Gatwick too

The problem with launching regional UK flights is that PHL does not have the O&D of New York. CO make them work because they can combine the O&D with connections at their EWR hub

I could see BHX-PHL working on a B752 and GLA-PHL going year round but nothing more at PHL. PIT-LGW on a B752 would be good though
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gayrugbyman
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:34 am

A second PHL - MAN with an onward connection to BOM might be an idea?
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
PIT-LGW on a B752 would be good though

Many of us, myself, CentPIT etc keep saying on here how PIT-anywhere Europe would be good, but if only the O&D numbers said the same...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
B752OS
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
MAN has good Star Alliance connections with BD, LH, LX & SK all serving (heck even SQ), but I think the MAN-PHL flight is all O&D traffic is not really benefiting from connections. The MAN-CLT could be a good way to test the water, I mean AA did it with MIA & BOS which proves you don't need to fly from your HQ Airport to make a sucess of Trans Atlantic flights.

Yes AA has done flights out of BOS and MIA to MAN. BOS is seasonal, it runs for a little under 8 months with a daily 752. One thing that both MIA and BOS have that CLT doesnt is solid O&D to England. Also, MIA is a large AA hub, I believe their second or third largest station, so to say that MIA is not one of the AA "HQ" cities is wrong. BOS on the other is a decent sized focus city for them. The one thing that CLT has is location; CLT is better suited for passengers to connect to points throughout the US.

[Edited 2007-01-20 06:18:08]

[Edited 2007-01-20 06:20:07]

[Edited 2007-01-20 06:21:15]
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 4):
It sure is does it continue to SFO by any chance as I remember seeing it on the departure boards once and nearly fainted.

Just the flight numbers continue on for marketing purposes (same with LAX). The transcon US flights are operated by A32X equipment.
 
Humberside
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 15):
Many of us, myself, CentPIT etc keep saying on here how PIT-anywhere Europe would be good, but if only the O&D numbers said the same...

If you add in the remaining conections at PIT, could that support a flight?

Im right in thinking FRA has higher O&D from PIT aren't I, plus the benefit of LH's hub but a B757 cant make it that far?
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COEI2007
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:08 pm

PIT to FRA would be perfect!!! I dont see it happening though!!!
 
RayPettit
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 12):
Adding more flights to the UK is pointless, IMO. The UK isn't a very big country and US Airways already serves enough cities that are all a couple hours driving from any location on the island. Connecting PHL to the smaller US cities just doesn't have enough demand and therefore doesn't make much sense to start.

The thread starter asked whether US Airways would serve Newcastle. This is indeed one city that exceeds your "couple hours drive" criteria. There are in fact a great many more locations on our "small island" that are much further away than that!

I'm not certain that NCL would be viable though, but you never know.
 
Charliejag1
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 2):
I personally cannot see them reverting from the modern A330 back to the rather out dated 767-200. Plus, the MAN-PHL seems to be a popular flight.

A bit off topic, but from what I have heard from my east couterparts, the A330s go on mx alot more than the Boeings, almost aloways for an interiors issue. The impression I got is that the East side loves the plane except for the cabin because it always breaks and causes mx issues.
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Im right in thinking FRA has higher O&D from PIT aren't I, plus the benefit of LH's hub but a B757 cant make it that far?

Yes, i'm almost sure PIT-FRA has a higher yearly O&D than PIT-LGW. However, i'm not certain PIT-FRA can be serviced with a B752. I am hoping/praying PIT-LGW is returned soon with a B752? I do have my doubts as well.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
jmc1975
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
However, i'm not certain PIT-FRA can be serviced with a B752.

Don't forget CO has a 752 servicing CLE-LGW, so with winglets, the range shouldn't be an issue.
.......
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
Don't forget CO has a 752 servicing CLE-LGW, so with winglets, the range shouldn't be an issue.

Sure, but I don't think US is interested in equipping their 757s with winglets for any expanded ETOPS service to anything further than the UK and Portugal.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
If you add in the remaining conections at PIT, could that support a flight?

Im right in thinking FRA has higher O&D from PIT aren't I, plus the benefit of LH's hub but a B757 cant make it that far?

I see that CentPIT has answered the second question already. It does have higher O&D than PIT-LGW, but I don't think it's enough to have US put a 767 or any long haul on the route, and LH has already stated they have no aircraft either, or that it was not feasible. (Speakig of LH, I just heard over 98.1 WOGL Philli that LH was offering RTs as low as $389 round trip to Europe. I guess with all the taxes thrown in, it's more like 650-700 bucks, right? sorry for that tangent in advance!)

Andway, coming back to the first question, I think US wants to focus on putting more transatlantic flights out of Philadelphia. That is, of course, their main gateway/only major gateway into Europe/any international destination US currently serves. The international O&D there is pretty high and PHL can be very profitable for US than what it is now possibly. This may be presumptuous, but if the O&D can't support international service out of PHL, then why does US have at least 20 flights alone jumping across the Atlantic? Not to mention, the Lisbon 757s are packed I believe...

I would love to see US or somebody bring back PIT transatlantic service, but it is not happening yet...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
vega
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 23):
Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
However, i'm not certain PIT-FRA can be serviced with a B752.
Don't forget CO has a 752 servicing CLE-LGW, so with winglets, the range shouldn't be an issue.

All US Trans-Atlantic 757s are being equipped with winglets, which would put PIT-FRA still out of reach unless cargo/passenger loads were compromised in at least one direction. A major concern always has to be that when a route is attempted at the maximum range of an aircraft, periodic (expensive) enroute fuel stops may be necessary.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 24):
This may be presumptuous, but if the O&D can't support international service out of PHL,

Philadelphia INTERNATIONAL O&D is 4M - well enough to support more than 20 US TA flights (particularly since several are seasonal)+ several foreign carrier flights. On the other hand PIT has only 181K - not a whole lot of incentive to start major trans-atlantic services.

Possibly, the next best chance for PIT trans-Atlantic service is if Open Skies is approved and a non-U.S. carrier decides there is sufficent business to support an O&D run, with minimum/no connectability to an alliance partner.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
A330323X
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
752 - LGW-PIT

US won't be adding transatlantic flights at PIT.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
752/762 - LGW-PHL (Additional daily service - on top of the A330 service)

Would be too low-yielding and marginal a route. The existing daily on LGW-PHL is an underperforming route as it is; people just don't want to go to Gatwick when they have the BA flights to Heathrow to choose from. (The CLT-LGW flight, on the other hand, does extremely well and is in the top 4 or 5 most profitable flights systemwide, since there's no competition on CLT-LON.)

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
762 - MAN-CLT

This would work, but there are better opportunities with US being short on widebodies. At CLT in particular, MAD would also be likely the first route added if US wanted to expand there.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
752/762 - GLA-PHL (Increased to all year round)

PHL-GLA is the worst performing transatlantic route for US, though still profitable. I can't see them going year-round on it, nor do I see them adding EDI in the near future.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
752 - BHX-PHL

This is your best bet, with a 757 starting summer 2008. It almost started in summer 2005 on a 767, but BCN and VCE offered juicier proposals to US that year.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
8herveg
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:32 am

I hope US do start a service to BHX. Like someone said above, there aren't enough routes to the states anymore from BHX.

I think any of the following routes could work:

American Airlines - New York(JFK), Chicago (Both with B757) - daily
US Airways - Philadelphia (B757) - 5 x weekly
Air Canada - Toronto (B762) - 5 x weekly
Virgin Atlantic - Orlando - 3/4 x weekly, Barbados - 2/3 x weekly (Both with A343)
 
vega
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 26):
Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
762 - MAN-CLT

This would work, but there are better opportunities with US being short on widebodies. At CLT in particular, MAD would also be likely the first route added if US wanted to expand there.


I thought they were considering CDG as the next possiblity from CLT. Why MAD?
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
A330323X
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 28):
I thought they were considering CDG as the next possiblity from CLT.

CLT-CDG has been run in the past, and it really sucked.

(Of course, were US to wind up a partner of AF after this merger nonsense, I'm sure they would restart CLT-CDG very quickly.)

Quoting Vega (Reply 28):
Why MAD?

US does really well there. It's a higher yielding city with not much competition, and US can also connect people in MAD onto JK.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
vega
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 29):
Quoting Vega (Reply 28):
Why MAD?

US does really well there. It's a higher yielding city with not much competition, and US can also connect people in MAD onto JK.

I know they do well with PHL-MAD, but (I'm just guessing here) I assume the PHL flight has sufficient O&D both ways to support it without the need for large connecting traffic. A CLT-MAD flight, on the other hand, would seem to be highly dependent on connecting feed - much more so than CDG. As a side note, when asked during an Analyst conference call about CLT and Europe, Parker mentioned possibly re-starting CLT-CDG seasonally if aircraft became available.

Of course projecting something like this is at best speculative gaming, considering the unknown future of the Airline - with or without DL and the current lack of capable aircraft to fly either route without compromising PHL.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 26):
US won't be adding transatlantic flights at PIT.

Unfortunately...

But we just have to face the music. PIT is a great facility to connecct in, but it doesn't even have O&D to support any kind of service. It doesn't even have the regional feed necessary for any kind of connecting flight to Europe either, as most of that has been cut by US. PIT is entirely O&D traffic now, and served only 10.5 million people last year. The data is still coming in, and from January 1st through October 31st, PIT has handled only a little over 9 million passengers. That number is very low, and is almost entirely O&D, as most people are those originating or flying to PIT as their final destination. There is almost no connecting traffic in PIT...

However, there is some economic growth returning to PIT and the region, but it is very slow and little, but I am optimistic that things will pick up again. Local companies are expanding, although at the cost of having alcoa and Mellon vacating... But even they are staying committed to their large employment bases still in Pittsburgh.

Coming back to aviation, more people are flying out of Pittsburgh than there were before 9-11, especially now that PIT is no longer a hub for US. LCCs have come in and significantly lowered fares. I guess it all comes back to that mentality that US still is the only major airline at PIT right now and continue flying them. I suppose that is why WN and B6 were as slow to grow as they were. WN now has over 20 daily flights to 7 destinations, and the loads on B6 flights to JFK and BOS are starting to come up. Traffic is picking up. I don't see it levelling off; it will just continue this slow but steady climb IMO...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 31):
PIT is entirely O&D traffic now, and served only 10.5 million people last year. The data is still coming in, and from January 1st through October 31st, PIT has handled only a little over 9 million passengers. That number is very low, and is almost entirely O&D, as most people are those originating or flying to PIT as their final destination. There is almost no connecting traffic in PIT...

For 2006, the latrst numbers are January-November:

9,214,510

As soon as December 2006 is official I will let you know Steeler83!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
vega
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:59 pm

The reported PIT numbers for the Period Jan 1 - 31 Sept 2006 are:
Total Passengers (TP) = 7,515,258
Total O&D (TO&D) = 6,836,770
Connecting = TP - TO&D = 678,488 = 9.029% (of TP)

I doubt the % will change much for the final 3 months as it's already close to the 2005 12 month total of 8.427%. The difference being typical higher O&D (and lower connecting) travel late Nov - late Dec of most years.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
bmie70
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:12 pm

Do the ETOPS 752s have business class or are they all economy?

Perhaps they should switch the GLA flight to EDI and operate year round? IIRC EDI has more *A connections and MAY offer higher yields.  duck 
 
Humberside
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting BMIE70 (Reply 34):
Perhaps they should switch the GLA flight to EDI and operate year round? IIRC EDI has more *A connections

More connections, but not a significant number - cities like FRA and BRU are served non stop from PHL and via US's other European destinations
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bobnwa
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting A330323X (Reply 26):
PHL-GLA is the worst performing transatlantic route for US, though still profitable. I can't see them going year-round on it, nor do I see them adding EDI in the near future.

How do you know this with such certainty and it you do, please give us the other trans-atlantic routes in order of profitability. In airlines I am familiar with, only a few people in financial planning hwvw acess to this info.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting BMIE70 (Reply 34):
Do the ETOPS 752s have business class or are they all economy?

They came from ATA with a small "first class" section...but they are not sold initially, you can pay an upgrade fee at the gate to get the larger seat. We are installing Envoy seats in all the transatlantic 757's...how many, I'm not sure. Maybe someone else will know.
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Concorde001
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 26):
A330323X

Thanks for your insightful posts!

May I ask, how does US' MAN-PHL route do compared to its other European routes? Is it one of the most profitable? Does the fact that a daily A330-300 used on the route suggest yes?

Thank you  Wink
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
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RE: US Airways Expansion From The UK?

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Total O&D (TO&D) = 6,836,770

Well then, the O&D for PIT in 2006 should surpass the O&D for 2005.


2005-(7,096,350)


I think 2006 might just surpass it!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)

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